I have big problems with the lighting of the interior.

Just can not figure out how to get this type of rendering with POSER.

The room is closed, then just do not understand, as if there is a global source of light and in how to make it.

I begin to think that there is a way of manipulating the materials of objects to get these renderings.

But do such a thing in the room very large and full of objects would be an endless work

Suggestions ?

If you have Poser 9/2012 make the ceiling an emitter if you can't see the ceiling in the scene. You may get close. IF not, use emitters for all the lights. They give an overall more GI look than Poser's lights can. Laurie

Emitter for lights ?

This is new for me !!! 

What about ?

Quote - Emitter for lights ?

This is new for me !!! 

What about ?

You can make a material zone be an emitter, a simple prop like a one sided square, a low res ball, etc. In the materials, set the ambient of the object to something that will emit a decent amount of light. Maybe 3.00 or so and go up from there... You can set a regular Poser light an set the specular and diffuse colors to black so that you can see what you're doing but that it won't render. There was a thread recently about using emitters for lighting but I can't find it now. Do a search ;). Laurie

Ah ok, i know this. 

You are not speacking abot poser light (spot ecc.)

I'm right ?

I have made a lot of test with emitter, but i have never made something near the posted picture

Quote - Ah ok, i know this. 

You are not speacking abot poser light (spot ecc.)

I'm right ?

No, I'm talking about mesh lights ;). Using a mesh as a light. Not using Poser lights. ;). Laurie

Mesh light ?

Hum, now i lost myself.....

I'm making a render...one moment ;). Laurie

Many thanks

Thanks, but are you sure there is no light in the 1' picture ?

Quote - Thanks, but are you sure there is no light in the 1' picture ?

 

I'm pretty sure this is what Laurie meant with using "mesh lights". Making an object (a box, a sphere, a plane ...) "glowing", thus emitting light. But not actually having the typical Poser light (spot, infinite ..) in the scene.

 The thing that impresses me is that the shadows are very very light,

so i asked if there was a light in this picture.

May be there is a way to make shadows light or hard with "mesh light"

bagginsbill time ago I made a very similar question and thanks to your answers, I learned to use GC, Skin shader and IDL

illuminate an interior room as the picture I posted, is something that still can not get and I just can not understand what is the right way.

I think i need a deeper aid

To make shadows hard with a mesh light: use a very small mesh and make it brighter (increase the ambient value) To make shadows more soft with a mesh light: use a larger mesh and make it less bright (decrease the ambient value) A mesh light can be anything: Vicky can be a mesh light so long as you make her ambient value more than zero and use IDL in your render settings. It's always wise to have some sort of container, like a room or an environment sphere so the light can bounce off of something. as for your comparison image there, I suspect there are more lights out of view of the camera. The two that are visible look fairly bright. Laurie

     Here are two threads which are at least peripherally relevant.

mesh lights in P8 and PPro 2010

mesh lights in P9 and PPro 2012

This has been informative.  Thanks for the info!  I myself also have trouble with lighting.  I'm considering some sort of class on it as a matter of fact because I have so much trouble.

LaurieA wrote:

" I suspect there are more lights out of view of the camera. The two that are visible look fairly bright."

I suspect it too.

I have seen the entire scene, there are other mesh lights but i'm not able to see other lights.

The scene is really bright, it possible that there is 1 or more infinite light ?

I don't think there are any infinite lights in that image. I think there's just so much emitted light bouncing around the room that there's nearly no shadows ;) Laurie

     OK, so xpdev said the room was closed, and one would think that the walls/ceiling are set to cast shadows.  But in P9 and Poser Pro 2012 you could have unseen emitters, props with the visible in camera box un-ticked.  You wouldn't even see them in preview.  Look in the scene hierarchy for any props (or figures) with the "eye" icon greyed out.  Is there an enviro-sphere or skydome in the scene?

(xpdev)

*Quote - I begin to think that there is a way of manipulating the materials of objects to get these renderings.
But do such a thing in the room very large and full of objects would be an endless work. *

     Having a lot of light sources is effortless using mesh lights.  There are over two hundred in this scene:

.

Re the "lightness" of the shadows: Along with having a large emitter, keep in mind that more GI bounces = more travelling of global light = lighter shadows. Max out your GI bounces and you should start to see significant difference.

Oh, and the earlier thread on all-emitter lighting with IDL is here.

For the OP

This is part of a wall from the Central District Subway by FWDesign and ForbiddenWhispers, avilable at DAZ.  I used it in a render earlier this year.

The light fixture isn't a selectable element, so I created a box primitive, scaled it to fit over the light, and then turned the box into an emitter.  There are only two other lights in the scene - the sun, and a specular point light in front of the light fixture, to add highlights to the scene.

• The room is closed and no windows
• No light
• I added an object primitive (square hig-res) and set the value to ambient_color 126:126:126 and ambient_value to 3

if the size of the square-hig res are almost like the room I get this result quite acceptable

what the hell I'm wrong ?

the technique is the same and we can see perfectly the type of lighting.

suggestions?
 

PS I deleted some parts not knowing if I would have done something illegal leaving visible

xpdev, the thread the Believable3d posted above contains answers to all your questions.

In summary, if you reduce the size of your lightsource emitter object, you need to increase the ambient_value of it (or increase the number of raytrace bounces), AND increase the Indirect Light Quality in your render settings (and expect the render to take longer).  If you have hard edges in your scene, you'll need reasonably high Indirect Light Quality and Irradiance Cache settings (50 and upwards, depending on your rendersize).

     (xpdev)

Quote - ...what the hell I'm wrong ?

     Not wrong, you've simply discovered the relationship among emitter size, number of ray trace bounces, irradiance caching, indirect light quality, and splotchiness. You also might notice the quirky Firefly IDL response in corners.

     A large emitter can use a quite mild ambient value, and the lighting tends to be even, without splotches. A small emitter needs very high ambient (Poser seems to clip values over 30 or 32) and tends to cause splotches because sampling rays often "miss" the small emitter. I try to use an emitter which is just large enough to avoid splotchiness, and then use several ray trace bounces and engage GC to help even out the light. 

     If you use an overly large emitter, you lose the appearance of the light coming from a particular source, one aspect of which is directionally-oriented shadows. Ideally, the emitter should fit the visible light source, so that the lighting matches the apparent sources. Also consider that most lights aren't searing blown-out white. Consider making the visible light a gentler ambient (0.5-1.0) and using a corresponding unseen emitter with sufficiently high ambient to cast enough light.

thanks face_off

I read that post (consistent with my understanding of English) but they are concentrated on portraits

no one applies that technique (lightsource emitter object) to get lit environments like in the pictures I posted.

possibile that no one has any idea how to do ?

Good points seachnasaigh.  xpdev, if you use the Scripts->Partners->Dimension3D->Render Firefly script, you can fine tune the number of "Samples" to address some of these issues too.

Thanks to all, but I definitely missed.

it's probably too early for me to use this technique to get the results of the images that I posted early.

I will return later on lighting without lights hoping to figure it out.

(xpdev)

*Quote -   no one applies that technique (lightsource emitter object) to get lit environments like in the pictures I posted.

possibile that no one has any idea how to do ?*

     Yes, Folks do use emitters to light scenes - especially enclosed interiors.

     The thread which believable3D posted [PP2012 IDL] is the prime IDL tut source in this forum.  Granted that the examples were photo studio setups, but an emitter-lit room is just the same technique writ large.

     The [P9/PP2012 mesh light thread] which I cited addresses the mechanics of making emitters and using them as the sole light source for a room.  While MrSparky and I were using a more sci-fi/fantasy render style, the technique is the same.  Photo-realistic rendering simply requires more irradiance caching, IDL quality, raytrace bounces, and samples - at the cost of longer render times, of course.

     The [P8/PP2010 IDL thread] explains how to make and use emitters within the restrictions of P8/PP2010's lesser capabilities.

My render of the chests was 3 and a half hours.

I used 5000 samples. 5 THOUSAND. You can't even get that by setting the IDL Quality slider to 100. It will product only 2024 samples.

You have to use the D3D Render Firefly dialog. You have to take control of the settings. You have to run long renders.

It's still way faster than LuxRender, which would need 12+ hours to do a similar render.

You need to crank IDL quality all the way up. And take Irradiance caching up to about 50 or 60. Laurie

Quote - My render of the chests was 3 and a half hours.

I used 5000 samples. 5 THOUSAND. You can't even get that by setting the IDL Quality slider to 100. It will product only 2024 samples.

You have to use the D3D Render Firefly dialog. You have to take control of the settings. You have to run long renders.

It's still way faster than LuxRender, which would need 12+ hours to do a similar render.

This...lol. Luxrender would take at least a day with some of the stuff I've rendered in Poser with just emitters in less than two hours. BTW BB, what are your render settings in D3Ds Render Firefly dialog? I tend not to use it, but I would if it would give me better results for emitters ;). Laurie

may many thanks to all again.

I'll study.....

Quote - BTW BB, what are your render settings in D3Ds Render Firefly dialog? I tend not to use it, but I would if it would give me better results for emitters ;). Laurie

I change them all the time - I don't use one particular setting. I don't use presets. Every time I render I think about how I want to handle it and what's going on in the scene - anywhere from a quick test render to a final render, I tweak.

Draft render of EnvSphere and my material test pawn?

50 samples, IDL IC=35, MSR=1, PS=3, Bounces=1

Super crazy overnight final might be:

5000 samples, IDL IC=90, MSR=.2, PS=12, Bounces=8

Usually I'm somewhere in between.

Working with SR3 beta, I sometimes turn off IC. You don't have that switch.

Note - poking around in the Python API, I found evidence of path tracing, KD Tree optimizations, and other unfinished goodies.

I am doing a demonstration. I have an L-shaped room. Three point lights (unseen) are lighting most of the room. One ceiling light above the camera also contributes.

The lower part was a previous render using draft settings and took about 2 minutes.

I am now doing the super crazy overnight final settings. It has been running over an hour, and you can see that the IDL precalc is not even half completed.

I am going out for work today (so odd - I have worked from home almost 90 days in a row). When I return I will post the result.

Quote - Note - poking around in the Python API, I found evidence of path tracing, KD Tree optimizations, and other unfinished goodies.

 

Holy crap! No kiddin? Well, here's lookin forward to PoserPro 2014...lolol. I'll give the D3D Render thing a try. I'm not sure what it all means, but I'll figure it out ;). Thanks. Laurie

But I placed a few point lights indoors at 2% intensity to help Poser with the windows - I didn't want to crank the samples to 5000 just to find the light coming through the window, so I tossed some pointlights, one at each window. Problem solved.

Nothing BB, it's great.

I'm only trying to understand how to obtain a diffuse indoor illumination like posted pictures.

It's similar to an office illumination made with "neon"

One thing people get wrong on indoor lighting - the sun through the windows contributes a lot. But only if you set it right.

A photo does not represent light level alone. It represents light level and exposure setting (amplification) of the recording equipment.

In Poser we have no "exposure" - only light level. So what should you do?

Amplify the light level to represent an increase in exposure.

That means, for example, that if you are indoors, the sun (infinite) light intensity should be at least 800%. I have used 1500% in some images.

This pool render was around 1000% sun light intensity.

BB you are an incredibile source of everything.

Indoor lighing with sun make me no problem, the problem is indoor ligthing how i said over

xpdev, for good interior scene renders in poser with no sunlight, do what bill and the others mentioned.  use d3d's renderFF script to set IDL IC = 100, IDL samples to 4096 or higher, IDL intensity to <=1.0, and IDL bounces to 16 or 32.

use light-emitting objects that are as large as possible and which have bevelled/curved edges, make sure no other surfaces have diffuse >=1.0, turn off tone mapping in render settings, decrease bucket size to 32, increase pixel samples to 16, use shading rate <=0.2.  do not attempt to use poser render settings screen to set IDL quality/bounces.  use d3df's renderFF script instead.

Render time was 4 hours 24 minutes.

Pixel Samples (PS) = 6

Min Shading Rate (MSR) = .8

Bounces=4

Samples=5000

IC=80

Filter = Sinc 3