I've followed the DSON importer release, but since Genesis was released several months ago, could someone identify the advantages of switching over from V4/M4 to Genesis in regards to a Poser user?

I have the V4 weight mapped version, and a version of V4 that has "Perfect" line of corrections in it. I have EZSkin and PP2012. All this makes for a pretty nice set-up, but I'm willing to look into a new figure if improvements could be identified.

Since Genesis first came out only for DAZ Studio users, I and probably some others, really paid little attention to the improvements. Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate what those were (Does it bend better? Is it more anatomically correct?). I would want to know in terms of Genesis use inside Poser via the DSON importer, so only those improvements in that regard are requested (i.e. some of Genesis improvements won't carry over as I understand it).

Thanks for the help

The main advantage of Genesis is the unimesh feature. Compared to WM V4 the WM features of Genesis are a bit better but not as significant, for many users, to inspire a jump. Others might feel that the joint system is a big improvement that justifies the update. It depends on how you use the model.

The unimesh feature though is nice. The ability to dial morph from several characters opens up a lot of possibilities. There is also better UV map support, although I'm not sure that that feature works in Poser yet.

Of course for Studio users there is the advantage of having Genesis pre-loaded with the application so, cost-wise, it's very attractive, now that V4 is a paid product. 

Hope this helps.

It bends a whole lot better :) On the downside, the products for it a a lot more expensive than what you're used to lately, tho you've been around for a long while so you may still remember when they were about as expensive as now in the beginning ;).

Laurie

Quote - ....The unimesh feature though is nice. The ability to dial morph from several characters opens up a lot of possibilities. ...

Okay that's good. I hadn't thought about that...Thanks

Quote - It bends a whole lot better :) On the downside, the products for it a a lot more expensive than what you're used to lately, tho you've been around for a long while so you may still remember when they were about as expensive as now in the beginning ;).

Laurie

Okay. I wonder if anyone has any side by side comparions of the bending to show? Might be interesting to see if anyone does.

Thanks

In my opion.. one adantage that genesis has it the unimesh ... It can take a lot of morphs, and the clothing bought for this figure ( also hair ) are taking it's morphs. Which spares buying separate fits and morphs packages for the clothing.

Quote - In my opion.. one adantage that genesis has it the unimesh ... It can take a lot of morphs, and the clothing bought for this figure ( also hair ) are taking it's morphs. Which spares buying separate fits and morphs packages for the clothing.

Yeah, that's a good point...okay thanks...

I'm not sure anyone is going to be able to give you a complete list of advantages over V4WM.  While I respect the views of others in this forum 'bends better' is very subjective and it also depneds on what you render.  For instance I rarely do renders with nude characters so even V4WM has limited impact for me.  V4WM with the perfect series you use does help in most renders in some way even fully clothed so I use them a lot.

I stress I do not use Genesis myself but from comments form others I do see a great advantage if you decide to create aliens or other creatures.  Most of my reluctance to using Genesis is the fact that I know there will be a large finacial outlay to make it a worthwhile purchase, as with most other new figures, and I have yet to see what it can provide for my type of render that V4WM cannot.

That said, now that Genesis is in Poser there could well be something that I would regard as a 'must have'.  It would be a good idea to keep an eye on the other thread 'Poser heaven has arrived' as there are renders from Poser now being posted that might be of interest.

Quote - I'm not sure anyone is going to be able to give you a complete list of advantages over V4WM.  While I respect the views of others in this forum 'bends better' is very subjective and it also depneds on what you render.  For instance I rarely do renders with nude characters so even V4WM has limited impact for me.  V4WM with the perfect series you use does help in most renders in some way even fully clothed so I use them a lot.

I stress I do not use Genesis myself but from comments form others I do see a great advantage if you decide to create aliens or other creatures.  Most of my reluctance to using Genesis is the fact that I know there will be a large finacial outlay to make it a worthwhile purchase, as with most other new figures, and I have yet to see what it can provide for my type of render that V4WM cannot.

That said, now that Genesis is in Poser there could well be something that I would regard as a 'must have'.  It would be a good idea to keep an eye on the other thread 'Poser heaven has arrived' as there are renders from Poser now being posted that might be of interest.

Yes, I tend to agree. I'm not asking for a complete list of advantages, but there's always the euphoria for "Let's get the new figure because it's NEW." that I wanted to get around. Any objective thoughts or reasons as to why to switch are welcome. I appreciate that we are only a day after the release of DSON product, so some responses are only subjective right now, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks

This is a very useful thread. Thanks.

Still not entirely clear on what I need to actually use Genesis.  Like Mark, I just haven't been paying attention. Genesis is The Land of Confusion for me.  ;-)

The "figures" for Genesis, like V5 and M5...are they actual figures, or should I think of them as morph packs?

Quote - This is a very useful thread. Thanks.

Still not entirely clear on what I need to actually use Genesis.  Like Mark, I just haven't been paying attention. Genesis is The Land of Confusion for me.  ;-)

The "figures" for Genesis, like V5 and M5...are they actual figures, or should I think of them as morph packs?

Anything other than the base genesis figure is a morph. Some of the stuff on Daz's site are updated, some aren't. It says so on the product page if they are.

The free importer comes with some morphs already.

Laurie

Yes, I tend to agree. I'm not asking for a complete list of advantages, but there's always the euphoria for "Let's get the new figure because it's NEW." that I wanted to get around. Any objective thoughts or reasons as to why to switch are welcome. I appreciate that we are only a day after the release of DSON product, so some responses are only subjective right now, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks

I totally understand where you are coming from and, as you see from my comments, I am much in the same boat as I want to know why I would upgrade to Genesis other than just to throw money around.  Unfortunately, because of the history, it seems to be so much more difficult to answer than with any other new figure.  Even with the new importer there appears to be some benefits to Genesis that will only be available if used in Daz Studio.  The morphs are also saved in a different manner to the previous figures so if you have a favorite figure, as I have, this appears to be another hurdle.  I say hurdle because it does appear to be a way of doing it but at extra expense.  If I have to jump through more hoops to use my favorite character this drops Genesis down on my list of interest.

Don't get me wrong, I think is is great that Daz and SM have worked together to bring Genesis to Poser and I am sure some many will find it fun to use, I am just not sure I am one of them.......yet.

Anyway thanks for posting the question and i wait with interest to see your decision.

Quote - This is a very useful thread. Thanks.

Still not entirely clear on what I need to actually use Genesis.  Like Mark, I just haven't been paying attention. Genesis is The Land of Confusion for me.  ;-)

The "figures" for Genesis, like V5 and M5...are they actual figures, or should I think of them as morph packs?

I wish we could have more threads like this - a real breath of fresh air, useful, informative, non-partisan and mature; I hope it stays that way!

Well, I am looking at it as a replacement for the Gen3 and Gen4 figures (I have around 100 characters for each mesh (even Luke & Laura). 

As I understand it, with Genesis Generation X and the Gen3 add on, I can use the genesis figure with the morph sets (V3, M3, SP3, D3 etc head and body morphs) - I'll keep the figures, but have better bending (which I don't really care about - my characters keep their clothes on) and can use Gen4 & Gen5 maps (much more useful, as far as I am concerned).

I am not impressed with V5 or M5 figures - they look too similar to Gen4 figures;  with respect to monsters that can be made w/genesis,  - If I need a monster, I'll go with a purpose made monster - but that is my (admittedly minority) viewpoint on it.

Let me just add a comment. Architecturally Genesis is a good improvement but, as we know, Poser has adopted Weight Mapping too, so there is nothing that prevents using that technology with any other figure. V4 is an example but designers of new figures can take advantage of Poser's WM to design from scratch and create figures that bend very naturally. How much of an advantage Genesis has over a solution like that is hard to know but I wouldn't think it would be that much, if any. This is about the bending features, I'm not talking about the unimesh feature.

What is of immediate advantage to people is the array of characters that have been released recently for Genesis. That is the main advantage, IMHO. While V5/M5 are two examples, there are others, like the Gorilla, a few cartoon shapes etc. that might be of interest. So, the main advantage is choice and, now that Poser has support for it, freedom of choice of 3D app. It's not groundbraking, WM technologies were available in high-end 3D apps before, but it is a nice addition to the toolset.

Hope this helps.

Quote - Let me just add a comment. Architecturally Genesis is a good improvement but, as we know, Poser has adopted Weight Mapping too, so there is nothing that prevents using that technology with any other figure. V4 is an example but designers of new figures can take advantage of Poser's WM to design from scratch and create figures that bend very naturally. How much of an advantage Genesis has over a solution like that is hard to know but I wouldn't think it would be that much, if any. This is about the bending features, I'm not talking about the unimesh feature.

What is of immediate advantage to people is the array of characters that have been released recently for Genesis. That is the main advantage, IMHO. While V5/M5 are two examples, there are others, like the Gorilla, a few cartoon shapes etc. that might be of interest. So, the main advantage is choice and, now that Poser has support for it, freedom of choice of 3D app. It's not groundbraking, WM technologies were available in high-end 3D apps before, but it is a nice addition to the toolset.

Hope this helps.

If I might add to this ... I think the strength of the Genesis figures lies in the ability for the clothing to "follow" the figures, without having to add additional morphs to the clothing. I haven't tested it out yet as I am still installing all of the content and morphs slowly, as time permits (it's not my main focus today so I'm doing it a little at a time).

But it's my understanding that you won't have to create custom clothing morphs for custom characters, which is what makes it uniquely unique. However ... also from what I understand, the content creation and rigging has to be done in DS4.5 to make it compatible with the DSON format, and have it work in BOTH Poser and DAZ Studio.

Quote - > Quote - This is a very useful thread. Thanks.

Still not entirely clear on what I need to actually use Genesis.  Like Mark, I just haven't been paying attention. Genesis is The Land of Confusion for me.  ;-)

The "figures" for Genesis, like V5 and M5...are they actual figures, or should I think of them as morph packs?

Anything other than the base genesis figure is a morph. Some of the stuff on Daz's site are updated, some aren't. It says so on the product page if they are.

The free importer comes with some morphs already.

Laurie

You bring up a point I am not clear on. I understand that there are V4/M4 morphs and I think V3/M3 morphs and such for Genesis, but those only yield figures that look like their old DAZ counterparts. The mesh itself doesn't change. The polycount and nodes for V4's head is different than Genesis, so the old existing morphs I have for V4's face won't work on the Genesis face after the V4 morph is applied. Is that correct?

Thanks

So, something like the Onyx dress at DAZ, which is for the "Genesis female" - I could actually use it on any Genesis figure, not just the females?  The gorilla, the Neanderthal, the troll?

Quote - You bring up a point I am not clear on. I understand that there are V4/M4 morphs and I think V3/M3 morphs and such for Genesis, but those only yield figures that look like their old DAZ counterparts. The mesh itself doesn't change. The polycount and nodes for V4's head is different than Genesis, so the old existing morphs I have for V4's face won't work on the Genesis face after the V4 morph is applied. Is that correct?  

Thanks

Correct the old morphs do not work on Genesis even with the corresponding shapes. However, you can use the GenX plugin for DAZ Studio to transfer those morphs to Genesis. I have transferred most of the Generation 4 morphs and some Generation  3 ones without any issues. Once they are transferred they work in Poser, too.

Ciao

TD

Yes, that is correct. With extreme shapes you might get some poke-through issues though. In DAZ Studio you can fix that with the "collision modifier". However, that function is at least currently not available in Poser. The morph brush in poser might help there.

TD

The attached image shows a  of quick and dirty example done in Poser:  Troll Kid mix

Quote - So, something like the Onyx dress at DAZ, which is for the "Genesis female" - I could actually use it on any Genesis figure, not just the females?  The gorilla, the Neanderthal, the troll?

That's my understanding, yes, Genesis clothing is sort of "universal."  ... don't quote me on it though because I haven't actually had the chance to try it yet. But that IS exactly what is going on in this pic from the "Poser Heaven has Arrived?" thread on page7 ...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_10/file_487570.jpg

I am REALLY glad I didn't have a mouthful of soda when I tried this one ...

"Troll with Scoopback Mini"

No fixes yet after applying the "Transfer Active Morphs" script in Poser. The pokethrough is negligible and easily fixed with the morph brush.

LMAO

Hahahahahahahaha!! It's sad what types of jobs you have to do to feed the little trolls. LOL

queues stripper's music

Laurie

Quote - Hahahahahahahaha!! It's sad what types of jobs you have to do to feed the little trolls. LOL

queues stripper's music

Laurie

LOL  Hey, a mom's gotta do what a mom's gotta do!  ;-)

I think I laughed for quite a bit over that one. LOL

One of the things I have to follow up on, is the pokethrough on the chest doesn't show up until after rendering.  Have to check my display settings, or perhaps the display mode.

I don't know that it represents much of a change from V4WM for me.  V4WM bends really well, but honestly, I haven't bothered to convert most of my female V4 characters to weight-mapping because the vast majority of my renders simply don't require it.

I've been playing around with the Genesis figure all day, and I like the fact that it can take the the MATs and hair from older figures.

But clothes?  That's another matter.

Quote - I don't know that it represents much of a change from V4WM for me.  V4WM bends really well, but honestly, I haven't bothered to convert most of my female V4 characters to weight-mapping because the vast majority of my renders simply don't require it.

I've been playing around with the Genesis figure all day, and I like the fact that it can take the the MATs and hair from older figures.

But clothes?  That's another matter.

I think that raises another question. Is there a means to make older V4 clothing fit the Genesis figure? Even if the Genesis is morphed to V4, the meshes are different, so some conversion is necessary I would think. Will we need a Wardrobe Wizard update to handle that? Maybe one is in works?

Thanks

I think you can do it in DS and then export it for Poser.

Laurie

Quote - There is also better UV map support, although I'm not sure that that feature works in Poser yet.

It does work in Poser. For example applying the material preset for Basic Male (included) switches Genesis to the M4 UV set. Applying the material preset for Basic Child switches genesis to the K4 UV set. Genesis starts with the V4 UV set, but the Basic Female preset will switch to the V4 UV set. V5, M5, the Troll, Anubis, and quite a few others all have their own UV sets which are set up to take better advantage of their shapes.

Hee-hee!

Well, I guess that could be useful if you didn't want to keep buying WW support packs.

Still not sure Genesis offers anything I really need, though.  So much of the Genesis stuff seems to be copies of the Gen4 stuff.  And it's so expensive, even on sale.  I think I'd rather save my money for more Dinoraul dinosaurs.

Though if he starts making Genesis dinosaurs, I'm in.  (Is that possible?)

I wonder why we didn't get a Genesis Cube on April Fools day ...

Or was there one?

A couple of reasons to look at Genesis.

There are shapes you just can't do with Mil 4 figures.

For example Anubis, the Troll, Garul, MS Lycan, etc. While you could do one of these as an individual figure it would, normally, get little to no support. When it is based on Genesis it has all the support of the base figure. 

Tri-Ax is more that just Weight Mapped Rigging. Yes it is weight mapped rigging, and yes Tri-Ax means it has different maps for each of the three bend axes. But it also moves center and end points to account for changing the length of bones. And it has a few other cool little innovative features. (Which is why Genesis won 3DWorld magazine's Software innovation of the year for 2011.)

Then there is the Catmull-Clark Sub-D algorithm. That isn't just make more polys, it adds polys where they are needed because of a bend and not where they aren't needed. 

When it comes to what Poser and DAZ Studio users in particular and CG artists in General have come to expect from human figures, Genesis is a whole new level of capability.

Quote - A couple of reasons to look at Genesis.

There are shapes you just can't do with Mil 4 figures.

For example Anubis, the Troll, Garul, MS Lycan, etc. While you could do one of these as an individual figure it would, normally, get little to no support. When it is based on Genesis it has all the support of the base figure. 

Tri-Ax is more that just Weight Mapped Rigging. Yes it is weight mapped rigging, and yes Tri-Ax means it has different maps for each of the three bend axes. But it also moves center and end points to account for changing the length of bones. And it has a few other cool little innovative features. (Which is why Genesis won 3DWorld magazine's Software innovation of the year for 2011.)

Then there is the Catmull-Clark Sub-D algorithm. That isn't just make more polys, it adds polys where they are needed because of a bend and not where they aren't needed. 

When it comes to what Poser and DAZ Studio users in particular and CG artists in General have come to expect from human figures, Genesis is a whole new level of capability.

Okay thanks. Does all of this carry over into Poser though, through the DSON process? It would seem like Poser itself would have to be updated to handle some of these features like the Sub-D algorithm meshing. Are you saying that adaptive meshing is built into the figure itself then?

Thanks

IMO the perceived improvement in bending comes from the sub-d function, not weight painting.  Sub-d not only subdivides the mesh it also smooths out the vertices.  A lot of the creasing and bunching up of the mesh that happens without sub-d is smoothed over.  I used the V3RR and M3RR figures for a long time with Studio and with sub-d applied they looked just as good if not better than the high-poly versions.  Of course the bending doesn't look any more realistic it just looks less strange or noticably weird.

Quote - > Quote - A couple of reasons to look at Genesis.

There are shapes you just can't do with Mil 4 figures.

For example Anubis, the Troll, Garul, MS Lycan, etc. While you could do one of these as an individual figure it would, normally, get little to no support. When it is based on Genesis it has all the support of the base figure. 

Tri-Ax is more that just Weight Mapped Rigging. Yes it is weight mapped rigging, and yes Tri-Ax means it has different maps for each of the three bend axes. But it also moves center and end points to account for changing the length of bones. And it has a few other cool little innovative features. (Which is why Genesis won 3DWorld magazine's Software innovation of the year for 2011.)

Then there is the Catmull-Clark Sub-D algorithm. That isn't just make more polys, it adds polys where they are needed because of a bend and not where they aren't needed. 

When it comes to what Poser and DAZ Studio users in particular and CG artists in General have come to expect from human figures, Genesis is a whole new level of capability.

Okay thanks. Does all of this carry over into Poser though, through the DSON process? It would seem like Poser itself would have to be updated to handle some of these features like the Sub-D algorithm meshing. Are you saying that adaptive meshing is built into the figure itself then?

 

Thanks

Yes, it all comes over. Yes, the devs at DAZ found a way to cheat hard on the Catmull-Clark Sub-D, it works in Poser as a function of the importer. (So you won't get one or more levels in the view port and additional levels at render time, they will all have to be in the viewport. Note for best performance set your Sub-D level to -1 while you are working then set it to 1 or 2 when it is time to render.)

Quote - IMO the perceived improvement in bending comes from the sub-d function, not weight painting.  Sub-d not only subdivides the mesh it also smooths out the vertices.  A lot of the creasing and bunching up of the mesh that happens without sub-d is smoothed over.  I used the V3RR and M3RR figures for a long time with Studio and with sub-d applied they looked just as good if not better than the high-poly versions.  Of course the bending doesn't look any more realistic it just looks less strange or noticably weird.

In the case of Genesis it is both the Sub-D and the Weight painting. One or the other would not give you the realistic bends Genesis has by itself.

I do believe we had a thread asking exactly this question a couple of months ago.

My answer is the same: "niche" figures, such as kids, monsters, and males, are better supported (and will continue to be better supported in the future) in Genesis because the clothing is essentially universal. The amount of clothing released in the last year that fits male (and kid) figures has dwarfed previous years, even if, at times, the buttons are on the wrong side of the shirt.

If you just want to render Victoria, I'm not sure there's that much of an advantage.

OK I'm sorry, I lost the thread (and the page) ... what are the steps again to load a gen. 4 texture onto gen. 5?  I want to use an M4 texture on M5.

All you need to do is apply the Basic Male Tex preset located in Materials and that sets the M4 uvs. Then apply your textures and you should be good to go ;)

Laurie

Ah that was it. Thanks 8-)

OOOPS!!! Maybe not. I don't see a "Basic" texture in the library ... I see a Sample Jeremy, is that the one?

EDIT ... yes, that was the one. Got it!

Quote - Hee-hee!

Well, I guess that could be useful if you didn't want to keep buying WW support packs.

Still not sure Genesis offers anything I really need, though.  So much of the Genesis stuff seems to be copies of the Gen4 stuff.  And it's so expensive, even on sale.  I think I'd rather save my money for more Dinoraul dinosaurs.

Though if he starts making Genesis dinosaurs, I'm in.  (Is that possible?)

 

I don't worry about WW support packs - I already own almost every one of them, being an early adaptor of Wardrobe Wizard.

I see you noticed that DAZ vendors are recyling Gen4 content - don't point that out in a DAZ forum - the mods will send you a nastygram.

Quote - Ah that was it. Thanks 8-)

 

OOOPS!!! Maybe not. I don't see a "Basic" texture in the library ... I see a Sample Jeremy, is that the one?

 

EDIT ... yes, that was the one. Got it!

Yes, that's it. I apologize. LOL. Right place, wrong name ;)

Laurie

Quote - I do believe we had a thread asking exactly this question a couple of months ago.

My answer is the same: "niche" figures, such as kids, monsters, and males, are better supported (and will continue to be better supported in the future) in Genesis because the clothing is essentially universal. The amount of clothing released in the last year that fits male (and kid) figures has dwarfed previous years, even if, at times, the buttons are on the wrong side of the shirt.

If you just want to render Victoria, I'm not sure there's that much of an advantage.

My questions (and those of others posted here) had more to do with the advantages of those aspects of Genesis, available now to Poser users, via the new DSON process. As an example, I don't believe the sub-D feature was available a couple of months back (via the cr2 exporter). Thanks for re-posting your views from before.

Quote - All you need to do is apply the Basic Male Tex preset located in Materials and that sets the M4 uvs. Then apply your textures and you should be good to go ;)

Laurie

Are the body part names, material zones, and such the same so EZSKIN can be used?

Thanks

Quote -   Are the body part names, material zones, and such the same so EZSKIN can be used?

Thanks

yes it can use the gen 4 ...um set... sorry don't have access to poser right now and I can't remember what they are called. Ezskin won't recognize it as such but you can tell it to use that and you'll be fine.

I don't understand why no one talks about the huge advantages for the content providers. Over the years the Gen4 system has grown more and more convoluted with a lot of essential and useful information hidden away in obscure threads. That makes it very hard for new talent the "old timers" (I don't mean in years) have all the advantage. You can spend hours rigging a figure but if you run it through a pose collection a bunch of errors show up. And that is valid for ALL bought content.

This very morning I rigged a figure for Genesis in 5 min and ran it through 50 poses without a single poke through. I know that everyone is first and foremost thinking of themselves but still. That it becomes so much better and easier to create content is bound to reflect in the prices (eventually.) And allow us to concentrate on more important things like details..

Quote - > Quote - All you need to do is apply the Basic Male Tex preset located in Materials and that sets the M4 uvs. Then apply your textures and you should be good to go ;)

Laurie

 

Are the body part names, material zones, and such the same so EZSKIN can be used?

 

Thanks

Yes.

Quote - I don't understand why no one talks about the huge advantages for the content providers.

....

Because he wasn't asking for the advantages for content providers. He was asking for a non-combative comparison of the pros and cons.

Laurie

Quote - Well, I am looking at it as a replacement for the Gen3 and Gen4 figures (I have around 100 characters for each mesh (even Luke & Laura). 

 

As I understand it, with Genesis Generation X and the Gen3 add on, I can use the genesis figure with the morph sets (V3, M3, SP3, D3 etc head and body morphs) - I'll keep the figures, but have better bending (which I don't really care about - my characters keep their clothes on) and can use Gen4 & Gen5 maps (much more useful, as far as I am concerned).

 

I am not impressed with V5 or M5 figures - they look too similar to Gen4 figures;  with respect to monsters that can be made w/genesis,  - If I need a monster, I'll go with a purpose made monster - but that is my (admittedly minority) viewpoint on it.

All your images feature long pants, long sleeved turtlenecked shirts and long hair? :) Sorry couldn't resist. Remember the clothing also has to be tri-ax to work and bends better too. :) (Plus it inherits the morphs from the figure, so you don't have to add, or the vendor doesn't have to add, the morphs to the clothing. )

Quote - Still not sure Genesis offers anything I really need, though.  So much of the Genesis stuff seems to be copies of the Gen4 stuff.  And it's so expensive, even on sale.  I think I'd rather save my money for more Dinoraul dinosaurs. Though if he starts making Genesis dinosaurs, I'm in.  (Is that possible?)

 

Actually it was only the initial run of clothing that was converted earlier clothing, the newer stuff is all Genesis. I doubt creating a Dinosaur on Genesis would be a good idea, however creating a dinosaur using Tri-ax rigging/weight mapping and Sub-D is entirely possible. (And, aside from clothing, would have most of the advantages of Genesis.) In fact if you did it right you could builld 2-4 base figures and morph the rest from those. Things like horns, spikes and tail clubs could be geografted on, etc. Very cool idea, make sure you pass that along to Dinoraul. :)

Just a few general facts about sub-d.  The Catmull-Clark sub-d subdivides the entire mesh, not just parts of it.  There are specialized sub-d types used by major CGI studio that can selectively subdivide a mesh but I don't see us getting them any time soon.  Sub-d adds polygons but it does not add detail, if anything it actually smooths out some details.  Take a cube for instance, add 1 level of sub-d and it clearly isn't a cube anymore, add enough levels of sub-d and begins to look more like a sphere.

Quote - Just a few general facts about sub-d.  The Catmull-Clark sub-d subdivides the entire mesh, not just parts of it.  There are specialized sub-d types used by major CGI studio that can selectively subdivide a mesh but I don't see us getting them any time soon.  Sub-d adds polygons but it does not add detail, if anything it actually smooths out some details.  Take a cube for instance, add 1 level of sub-d and it clearly isn't a cube anymore, add enough levels of sub-d and begins to look more like a sphere.

Actually, as described in this thread:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2855662&page=2

'Keep Edges' can retain the shape as you're subdividing.

Also Genesis deals more with subd cages. These are not really meshes but instructions of how the subd should handle the mesh.  Subdividing a regular mesh may eventually smooth it out without keeping edges and lose detail, however cages may bring in more detail, which you can see if you look at some morphs at no subdivision version adding detail in since the cage is providing points of where move the mesh as well. (which is probably the simplistic explanation)