Yeah, while I understand, I was looking forward to Lucas, have a few ladies, but Ryan2/Tyler sure could have used some runtime company.

I'd just liked to have seen a new native Poser male figure... and Lucas was looking like delivering on this front... and delivering a much nicer, Poser weight mapping optimised mesh too, compared to anything else currently around, far as I can tell.

I appreciate your reasoning, in the here and now, but please, never say never Shane... is maybe all I'd say further at this point ;-)

AmbientShade :

I started CGI before zBrush existed.
So I model the mesh first in C4D then make vector maps in zBrush.
I had zBrush 1.55b lol. Think I gave about $50.00 or $75.00 for it.
Can't remember what version Smeagol was but that's when zBrush rockets ignited.

I did try the new retopology tool in zBrush4R4.
I know before Z4R4 They said 3D Coat retopolagy tools where better.
Was watching http://www.topogun.com/ Videos.
Care to tell us what ya think of topogun ,3DCoat ,zBrush retopology tools ?

Also what is your thought about
model first then vector map VS zBrush sculpt first then retopolgy .
I know a lot retopolagy but it seems faster to me to model first.
but I've never zBrush sculpt first then retopolgy .
are there pro's n con's ?

I thought someone was going to re-rig James or Simon to be weightmapped. The only real problem I have with Tyler is that he's really too short to be used as a companion for V4.

Change his height ... Full body scale to 105% or something :)

I don't use 3D coat, so i can't answer anything about it. I might get it at some point in the future just to see if i like it enough to use it full time.

Topogun is my preference for retopology. I haven't explored zb4r4's new retopo tools enough to give you a difinitive answer about that either. they can be tricky, so it takes practice.

from what i gather, having topogun and zb are about the same as having 3d coat, minus the uv mapping features of 3d coat. you can map in zb but it's not very intuitive and you don't have much control over the map since uv master pretty much does it for you. it's not so great at mapping a full figure, so i use blender for that, which is pretty straight forward and simple.

You have to model before you can map. sculpting avoids the necessity of having to worry about topology while modeling, so i don't really understand what your question is. Any topology you start with is going to get distorted while sculpting and will have to be retopologized anyway once the sculpt is finished, unless you're really really careful. Except in cases where you're creating morphs for a completed model, like a poser figure, but that takes a different approach anyway cause you can't divide the mesh.

~Shane

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I agree with JoePublic. The future for Poser is Genesis, whether people want to admit it or not. Reality check, any new figure that is not made by Daz will die off within weeks regardless how great they are. Why? There is no other company/group that can sustain or market a figure like they do. Simple as that. This Dson importer will improve and soon Genesis will work without any issues. But use what you want, I just prefer using a figure that is a cut above the rest that has the most support and flexibility. If Daz was forcing a piece of sh!t model into Poser then I would be against everything they are trying to do, but that is not the case. Genesis is all the men you need all in one.

Yeah, well... until the DSON importer does improve, Genesis does not have much of a place in Poser. I am not buying any new DSON content -- the new horse, for example -- until I see a BIG, BIG, BIG improvement. I just don't trust it at the moment.

This I agree with. At the moment there are still way to many issues to be used hassel free. Yes I can Get all the functionality of Genesis, but at this stage it is a slightly painfull process to use.

It's kind of acceptable for single figure portraits, and I do quite a few of those. But, as with Genesis in DS, the clothing fits to non-vanilla characters are not quite right. And even with the clothing cleavage addon, what's up with Vickie's breasts and buttocks? Shirts and pants just don't fit her right. The shrinkwrapped apearance looks really, really weird. So at the moment, I wouldn't use Genesis to render any adult female character who wasn't wearing dynamic clothes.

(Then again, most of the Genesis stuff I've bought has been for male characters because it helps fill a gaping void in content there.)

Trouble for me mainly is that I can't bear the thought of going through and converting a bunch of content. I haven't even installed DS4.5. I just can't face the enormity of the task. It demoralizes me the moment I think about it.

ETA: Believe me, I want it to work! I want it to be stable, easier, and not too resource intensive. I really, really do.

 

zBrush is fast at fixing stuff

I see myself quoted, but I wonder if your comment is actually meant for me. I mean, if using DS4.5 to convert clothing via DSON is too much of a pain in the butt for me, you can't really think that buying zbrush and learning to use it would be something I'd ever, ever consider... just to fix some clothes that I have no intention of buying.

Quote - zBrush is fast at fixing stuff

I see myself quoted, but I wonder if your comment is actually meant for me. I mean, if using DS4.5 to convert clothing via DSON is too much of a pain in the butt for me, you can't really think that buying zbrush and learning to use it would be something I'd ever, ever consider... just to fix some clothes that I have no intention of buying.

LMAO ,Well when you put it that way I do sound insaner then normal LOL.

Since Poser has GoZ it's fast to tweak any thing ,poke threws
,tweak a peace of clothing ,hair. any thing.

Quote -I don't use 3D coat, so i can't answer anything about it. I might get it at some point in the future just to see if i like it enough to use it full time.

Topogun is my preference for retopology. I haven't explored zb4r4's new retopo tools enough to give you a difinitive answer about that either. they can be tricky, so it takes practice.

from what i gather, having topogun and zb are about the same as having 3d coat, minus the uv mapping features of 3d coat. you can map in zb but it's not very intuitive and you don't have much control over the map since uv master pretty much does it for you. it's not so great at mapping a full figure, so i use blender for that, which is pretty straight forward and simple.

You have to model before you can map. sculpting avoids the necessity of having to worry about topology while modeling, so i don't really understand what your question is. Any topology you start with is going to get distorted while sculpting and will have to be retopologized anyway once the sculpt is finished, unless you're really really careful. Except in cases where you're creating morphs for a completed model, like a poser figure, but that takes a different approach anyway cause you can't divide the mesh.

 

~Shane

I like to check out all the new app's ,tools n work flows ,See how fast they are.
You know CGI just is not the fastest Art Medium.

Don't get me wrong I love my zBrush but I do not get how it's faster to Re topology.
Probably cause I learned to model before Re topology existed.

It's faster for me to just model the mesh in C4D.
Then
Send it to zBrush for vector maps.

Quote -
I like to check out all the new app's ,tools n work flows ,See how fast they are.
You know CGI just is not the fastest Art Medium.

Don't get me wrong I love my zBrush but I do not get how it's faster to Re topology.
Probably cause I learned to model before Re topology existed.

It's faster for me to just model the mesh in C4D.
Then
Send it to zBrush for vector maps.

I started modeling before using zbrush too. 

If you're still using 1.5 then it's understandable why you would think that modeling before sculpting is faster. 4r4 is nothing like 1.5. It's barely even the same program now. Hard surface modeling is different, but when it comes to organic shapes, Most people agree that sculpting is faster than modeling, which is why modeling is quickly becoming an outdated process. When I'm working on a hard surface model, I poly model first most of the time. But I dont do a lot of that. Most of what I do is organic.

In the end, its whatever you're comfortable with, as long as its proficient and your geometry is accurate. Everyone has their own workflow.

~Shane

I've been trying to learn to model some clothing, for the recent new Poser figures; Anastasia, Michelle, Miki4 and Tyler (which is perhaps the only aspect here holding this posting vaguely on topic... LOL... sorry).

So far, had most success using one of Lyrra's Quicksuits (for Alyson2 / Anastasia). I am hoping she brings forth her promised Tyler and Miki4 ones quite soon ;-)

But I have tinkered with using the Mesh Extract subtool in ZB, on a mask painted on Miki4, then QRemesher.

Not great results as yet... but I'm sure that's just me, at present.

Not totally sure of the legitimacy of this technique, for making Poser content, for these figures that are not my own, and whether it renders a mesh that is sufficiently non-derivative to actually redistribute though... if I ever got good enough at it to do so.

Does anyone else use this ZB based technique for Poser clothing?

At present I am leaning more towards starting with a Quicksuit, starting out in the Poly Modeller, Silo or Hexagon, then taking it into ZB after this point and scultpting it... to get details and maybe displacement on top...

Quote -I've been trying to learn to model some clothing, for the recent new Poser figures; Anastasia, Michelle, Miki4 and Tyler (which is perhaps the only aspect here holding this posting vaguely on topic... LOL... sorry).

So far, had most success using one of Lyrra's Quicksuits (for Alyson2 / Anastasia). I am hoping she brings forth her promised Tyler and Miki4 ones quite soon ;-)

But I have tinkered with using the Mesh Extract subtool in ZB, on a mask painted on Miki4, then QRemesher.

Not great results as yet... but I'm sure that's just me, at present.

Not totally sure of the legitimacy of this technique, for making Poser content, for these figures that are not my own, and whether it renders a mesh that is sufficiently non-derivative to actually redistribute though... if I ever got good enough at it to do so.

Does anyone else use this ZB based technique for Poser clothing?

At present I am leaning more towards starting with a Quicksuit, starting out in the Poly Modeller, Silo or Hexagon, then taking it into ZB after this point and scultpting it... to get details and maybe displacement on top...

I applauder you ambition and wish you the best of luck.

The last thing I want to do is to discourage you.
CGI Rocks once you learn it.
Once you learn it you can bring your imagination in to reality, Magic.

for making Poser content I would suggest this order of learning.
Poly Modeling.
Mapping.
Texturing.
Displacement maps.

If your gong to make Poser content you need to learn the legel rules.

You can make or buy a mannequin and extrude ,shrink wrap etc etc the mannequin.
Can not extrude ,shrink wrap etc etc any of DAZ characters.

Same rule probably apply s to all characters.

zBrush For Poser content.
Brushes for morphs.
I might use Spot light for texturing.
Brushes for displacement map.

Don't worry, I'd say I comprehend the legal considerations perfectly well. We probably don't want to get into that in depth in this thread either...

My whole post there was a bit OT really for this thread.

But at present I'm leaning toward that exact approach you layout RorrKonn, with the addition of sculpting:-

• Poly modelling (maybe based on a Quicksuit, e.g. Lyrra's or those distributed by EnglishBob, for clothing)

• Sculpting the poly model further in ZBrush

• Mapping (ZBrush or Silo or Hexagon)

• Texturing (ZBrush or Photoshop CS5 Extended)

• Displacement Mapping (possibly involving sculpting a displacement layer in ZBrush)

It's principally for hobby enjoyment... but I aim for reasonably high standards... so my progress is slow ;-)

Quote -Don't worry, I'd say I comprehend the legal considerations perfectly well. We probably don't want to get into that in depth in this thread either...

My whole post there was a bit OT really for this thread.

But at present I'm leaning toward that exact approach you layout RorrKonn, with the addition of sculpting:-

• Poly modelling (maybe based on a Quicksuit, e.g. Lyrra's or those distributed by EnglishBob, for clothing)

• Sculpting the poly model further in ZBrush

• Mapping (ZBrush or Silo or Hexagon)

• Texturing (ZBrush or Photoshop CS5 Extended)

• Displacement Mapping (possibly involving sculpting a displacement layer in ZBrush)

 

It's principally for hobby enjoyment... but I aim for reasonably high standards... so my progress is slow ;-)

 

There's a price to be paid for every thing.
CGI is the most powerful Art Medium Artist have ever known.

The Price for CGI is time.

So many great projects never get completed cause Artist get bored.
They end up with a lot of 1/2 finished Art and empty galleys.
So many great Artist fade away cause time stole there hope.

Quote - > Quote -Don't worry, I'd say I comprehend the legal considerations perfectly well. We probably don't want to get into that in depth in this thread either...

My whole post there was a bit OT really for this thread.

But at present I'm leaning toward that exact approach you layout RorrKonn, with the addition of sculpting:-

• Poly modelling (maybe based on a Quicksuit, e.g. Lyrra's or those distributed by EnglishBob, for clothing)

• Sculpting the poly model further in ZBrush

• Mapping (ZBrush or Silo or Hexagon)

• Texturing (ZBrush or Photoshop CS5 Extended)

• Displacement Mapping (possibly involving sculpting a displacement layer in ZBrush)

 

It's principally for hobby enjoyment... but I aim for reasonably high standards... so my progress is slow ;-)

 

 

There's a price to be paid for every thing.
CGI is the most powerful Art Medium Artist have ever known.

The Price for CGI is time.

So many great projects never get completed cause Artist get bored.
They end up with a lot of 1/2 finished Art and empty galleys.
So many great Artist fade away cause time stole there hope.

it's our pets who suffer the most.  crying for their walks and belly rubs.

and our kidneys suffer for the untold hours sitting at the compy.