Over on Willows Poser Forum a message was recently posted by Willow herself under the heading of "No Politics." The original message in context with an uproar respecting an image posted here and on her forum, outlaws the posting of images which display a penis. (There is mention of complaiance with some U.S. code I am not familar with.) In a later message in the same thread Willow seems to expand her earlier limited ban to erotic images in general. Her postion seems to relate to personal abuse and to access to her forum by various school groups. Christine

I'm sorry, once again I couldn't hold my tongue if an elephant was sitting on it. And technically I'm still a member of this forum (I never dismembered myself) I feel I have a right to say something..... What the HELL are you doing!?!?!?! We just got over one major blow out (with all parties kissing and making up) and here you are trying to start another one?? I must ask you, and please ask yourself, is this posting REALLY necessary? If you don't like the way things are run at the PFO why not just be a member here at Renderosity? What is your purpose of starting another flame war???? Forget the laws, forget the schools and personal issues. The PFO is a privately run board. If the rule was you could only post Poser people that were PURPLE that would be the rule for its members. Of course the current restrictions are not as silly (hopefully) and have a definite reason they are in place. Perhaps you are not a mother, Christine, or perhaps you don't care if school children see 14 inch penises hanging halfway down to the floor. But a lot of us do. So please before you start another heated debate, think carefully before posting. Thanks, Lee

Personally it makes sense, if the movie industry can make standards and x=no male frontal nudity, and that is restricted, meaning no minors. Willow has a basis. There are children there. And even R means Adult supervistion, whereas not even adult supervision is allowed for X ratings. We cannot expect a forum to be accessable to schools and educational organizations and accept socially defined (and legally, as well as media organization defined) unacceptable forms of nudity. Since this forum is creating an area safe from children and allowing such images, why make it an issue on the PFO. They have a right to set their own rules. They do a good job. Let it be. Please, Let's just enjoy the art on both forums. That's what this is about, isn't it the art? Respectfully

refering to bodybuilder thread: willow said:I'm very sorry. As a new member you may not be aware of our policies on image content. However, we can not allow this type of imagery to be posted here, because of younger viewers and parental concerns. We try to balance as much as possible to allow as much artistic freedom as we can. Thank you for understanding. than I said:Now wait a minuete, I'm the last person to endorse yanking pictures because of nudity,and I hav,nt seen the image in question. but that doesnt matter. two posts back on this forum is two images of a nude woman.(very well done I might add)...If the concern is younger viewers and parental concerns , why cant this artist post his nude male? then Grey said:Frontal Male Nudity is where most people draw the line... just ask the Motion Picture Association of America. An NC17 image is considerd unsuitable for minors even in the company of an adult, and will get parents put in prison. If that is not clear enough for you, I'm sorry Then he closed the thread, But what about that last comment?"If that is not clear enough for you, I'm sorry" was that really nessecary? all I did was ask a question. I dont think that it's they're policies so much as it is they're attitudes towards anyone who questions the policies. Hawkfyr

Chrisa - Yes, though I don't agree with many of their views over at the PFO and sometimes find them... well, confining, I have to admit, they are allowed to have them. That is why I only lurk over there. My suggestion would have to match, Lee's, let em. It is their forum and should be able to run it the way they think is best, dispite wether it is right or wrong, or sometimes Jaded. Lee - I don't expect you and would never ask you to hold your tongue. I invite everyone to talk freely here. Yes, it may tick some people off while doing so, but my only request would be to do it in the appropriate places. I've created such a place, it is called Complaint Corner. Let everyone get it off of their chests. Maybe once they have, we can get back to business :o) Boni - I agree on what you said except for one thing. X means intercourse in movies. I have seen R movies that showed frontal nudity of men (StarShip Troopers to name on). The reason that many movies don't show it is because the movie industry feel that 75% of the movie goers are male and do not wish to see the actor's members. They may be right :o) Hawk - Very good point. Yes it isn't so much WHAT a person says, but HOW the person says it. Granted, there are children that visit there, that is great! As I am sure some come here also. But that doesn't mean that you can treat me, or speak to me like a child or treat me rudely because I have an opposing point of view. 'Nuff said. Jack

Let's get it straight.... I could care less about what she allows or rejects. That said, it's obvious that there is a major shift in focus over at "Poser Forum Online". Clearly the intention over there is to promote technical discussion and host commercialy acceptable art work. Is Willow going commericial? It goes without saying that by default, Renderosity will become the site of choice for many like myself whose images are controversal or unacceptable inthe alternative venue. I think that reality should be publicly stated and discussed. I there-for I join with Leee in asking that we avoid the tired issue of censorship in favor of considering the more postive view I have laid out above. Christine

Well I must say for once I agree on one thing - "The reality should be publicly stated and discussed" The reality is there was no need for this post. Yes you have an opinion and yes you have a right to speak it but knowing this is a community you enjoy and knowing many members dislike the topic - why would you re-ignite the fires that are constantly being fought? And I 'pose' (no pun intended) this question to all not just the originator of this post. Jack runs this forum - this works for him and what his goals are Willow runs that forum - that works for her and what her goals are It's as simple as that. -continued-

Many of the members here enjoy playing video games. Do you like it when crazed mothers against video game violence shout ban all video games? No. Why? because you LIKE video games and will fight with all your heart to keep that from happening! Yet every year they make video game fanatics appear like gun-weilding addicts looking for the next fix! Every year that issue springs up again around the holidays ...fueled NOT by the mothers against them...but in reality by BOARD game makers...yes.....people who make board games. Did you ever realize that? See Video games EAT 100% into the profits of games like Monopoly or Risk or others...so they fund these "radicals" into a frenzy and the next thing you know laws are being passed and people are worked up and "a few more board games are sold that year". What do we tell those mothers people? Don't like it? Don't let your kids play the games. Well I say to us all...if you don't like something move on...because by constantly bickering we are MAKING whatever it is we DON'T like get all the attention it needs to flourish.

Please what I suggest to everyone involved here is that we REALLY listen to EACH and every individual...and be GOOD judges as to what's REALLY going on. Sometimes you'll find that 'things' are being said that are meant to in a way fuel more fires.....and you'll then be able to say "hey...I'm not down with that...let's move on". I've gotta say people they should really change both forums to Jacoby & Myers ONLINE cause we all seem to LOVE arguing a case. Perhaps we can make a successful Law practice out of this all...food for thought. PAN~

Just so people know, "male frontal nudity" DOES NOT mean an automatic "NC-17" from the ratings board. There are tons of R-rated movies containing male frontal nudity. Boogie Nights, An American Werewolf in London, The Piano etc etc.. I just pulled these from memory. -Jeff H. PS: Lee, what happened to that "diplomatic charm"? ;-)

Jeff, In agreement with you...Yes, I have seen umpteem R rated films that show male frontal nudity....Sad part here is that Grey used movies as an example...In my personal opinion todays films do not relate in any way to art so the comparision,in my mind, should never be made...But it was....It might be influenced by it but I see no comparision to the art created here and the film industry....Todays films are filled with much worse than the human figure...Violence and crime come to mind here before nudity...I just wish Grey had choosen a different avenue to base his opinion on..but at the same time if that is the way they want to run their forum then fine...That is their decision...Nude figures are nude, obscenity becomes a completely different issue...There is a very fine line there depending on who you are dealing with.....Kennect

All valid points on all sides... will it ever be settled? I sincerely doubt it. Is there a time and place for such discussion/fire starting? Yes. It's called the Complaint Corner. Time: at everyone's leisure. Why: while speaking Our Minds is very Welcomed, it, like ALL THINGS IN LIFE, is not for everyone. Please, this the NEWS Forum, not the Complaint Forum. Please use them as they are intended. I truly thank you. ed (one of the boys hosting this shin dig)

why is this post here? I mean i know we are all about "free speach" and "ooh do I have a bitch session for you" but come on I think it is simply in poor taste to discuss issues about the other forum here and vice versa. Post your complaint at the source! Let me say that again: Post your complaint at the source! Nothing about the other forum can be changed here. No one here should even care about what that forums policy is. In my opinion this is equivalent to complaining about the fact that 7-11 keeps there dirty magazines behind the counter. What does it have to do with this forum?? I loose respect for both forums and thier members when crap like this goes on and personally I wish the adinastrators would kill post like these they are useless and inflamatory.

Killing posts = censorship "Posting your complaints at the source" will result in censorship. I do wish I had that thread locking feature here though.

Whoops, found this thread by accident! ;) My comment without knowing the whole story regarding seeing a man full frontal is this: Everyday thousands of art museums across the world have paintings and sculptures of nude males with full genitalia. Said museums have thousands of children as museum goers daily. My point: If you treat the penis (in a non sexual situation) as something vulgar you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. ~Derek

Well said, and My wife thinks so too.:)~

Just got this: ____________________________________________________ "Hello Thomas, This automated message is to let you know that ouatcha has posted a reply to your message on the Renderosity.com Forum News and Team Contact Forum. You can click the link below to read their response: Subject: Re: "No politics" = no penises? http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=41278" _________________________________________________ I see no post from "ouatcha". Why am I getting an e bot from a thread that is 3 1/2 years old? Brought back some memories though...lol Tom

just a mistake from myself ; ) don't worry : D

Ahh...okay thanks. I was beginning to think the past was coming back to haunt me... 8 ) I see I still spell just as bad as I did back then...lol Tom

Got the same message ... glad that was cleared up. Boni