So I am a conplete noob with DAZ Studio, but I have been using Poser since version 4. If I get the V4 and M4 shapes for Genesis, can it wear the hundreds of M4 and V4 items I have purchased?

I'm sure there are other things I need to know about getting my old clothes and hair to work on Genesis and Genesis 2, if you have any general tips, please share those as well.

Thanks in advance all.

 EDIT: Also, can I still use Genesis stuff in DAZ Studio 4.6 (since it uses Genesis 2, as far as I can tell), or would buying Genesis stuff be a waste of money now?

Genesis

Can it wear the hundreds of M4 and V4 items I have purchased? Yes

Genesis has Autofit funtionality to support clothing for V4 and M4 and includes UV's for both characters.

DAZ Studio 4 Auto-Fit Tool - Included in Daz 4.6Genesis 2

Can it wear the hundreds of M4 and V4 items I have purchased? Yes*

• Requires a some support products for maximum compatibility from the Daz Store. For clothing to be transfered across the Generations you will need an autofit clone to match the figure the item was originally designed for installed for the destination figure. For skin textures you need UV's.

These are available in M4 for G2M and V4 plus other for G2F Formats at the Daz Store

≈•–-•-––•≈

To use the V4 Skin mats and Accessories on G2F you will need the V4 UV's and an autofit clone.

Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 Female - Gives you the V4 UVs for G2F and lets you use your V4 outfits with G2F (@DAZ STORE)

Materials will need to be saved as .duf files to work.

The process to convert your dsa files to duf is quite simple ie

CONVERT DSA TO DUF FILES

*Load .dsa on figure(Genesis or V4/M4), select all the Surfaces and Save out as new Material. Now its possible to use the new .duf on any figure. *

Of course if you have a huge library of V4/V5 mats you may want to look at something like:

V4 Skins Auto Converter for Genesis 2 Female(s) - Auto converts dsa to duf  (DAZ STORE)

Also, can I still use Genesis stuff in DAZ Studio 4.6 (since it uses Genesis 2, as far as I can tell), or would buying Genesis stuff be a waste of money now?

Genesis and accessories still work fine with Daz 4.6.

Thanks for the speedy reply.

 I having a hard time understanding why someone would bother with Genesis 2, I guess. Other than having the newest generation of figures and the items made specifically for them, of course.

Well each generation of figures has built on the success of the last and added further refinement and realism. Genesis 2 Bends much better than any figure before which is the major difference between Genesis and V4.

In my opinion the Genesis 2 Figures are the best figures available atm. It can seem a little intimidating if your coming from a point where the relationship with the generation 4 figures has been long standing. But its really not as difficult as it seems.

Think of it like this an older computer may work fine to check your emails or write a letter and in effect its a good computer. But if your wanting to render scenes with 10+ figures or play the latest 3D game you may need a newer computer model. 3D figures are a little similar to this, really theres nothing wrong with V4 or M4 or V3/M3 for that matter. But the Gen 6 figures offer the latest tech and innovation in a figure and in turn provide higher quality. So it really depends what you expect from your figures.

To me realism and ease of use is high up on the list and the Genesis Figures deliver on both of these aspects.

There really is no right or wrong thing to do just different tools and options.

"Can it wear the hundreds of M4 and V4 items I have purchased? Yes"

That would be more of a "should" then a "yes". Autofit has it's issues; boob tuck, and genesis has some issues with some shoes. I haven't used G2F for anything because of the cost of morphs to use the mil3 or mil 4 clothes.  Yes you can do a double fit, but that is iffy.  

"To me realism and ease of use is high up on the list and the Genesis Figures deliver on both of these aspects."

I'd argue that point. Yes, they pose more realisically, but easy of use is dependent.

I will point out that genesis has not had an update since release; as aposed to V4 that got 3 to fix issues. Also DAZ seems to have done nothing to update/fix autofit. Boob tuck is a big issue DAZ needs to fix in autofit, not try to sell me a workaround for it.

Quote - I will point out that genesis has not had an update since release; as aposed to V4 that got 3 to fix issues. Also DAZ seems to have done nothing to update/fix autofit. Boob tuck is a big issue DAZ needs to fix in autofit, not try to sell me a workaround for it.

V4 is close to ten years old so thats about an update every three years on average. From what i hear V4 has its own share of issues fitting clothing to custom morphed figures. I wonder Manley how many products have you purchased to improve V4s bending?

Id call a brand new figure (Genesis 2) a pretty solid update for Genesis and I believe the boob fixer products are created by a PA not Daz specifically. And i cant see an issue with someone wanting to see a reward from there research and work that provides a solution to a problem.

I think what autofit can do is quite staggering and find it hard to see it as something to be sneered at. But as they say "You can't please all the people all of the time."  And your right it isnt perfect, but not much in life is.

Every now and again i get an urge to play a commodore 64 game in a flush of nostalgia, some of these games built the foundation of gaming and i enjoyed them quite alot. But i would never stand and claim that we would be better off if gaming tech never advanced Or that these games were better than modern games.  Or even that modern games are perfect.

Really it comes down to personal preference and what you expect from the figures your using. As i said options. :)

Naa, V4 got all her updates the first 3 months out.

I have purchased no products to imporve V4's bending.

" And i cant see an issue with someone wanting to see a reward from there research and work that provides a solution to a problem." Razor42

I have big problems with companies not fixing things in order to make a profit off selling the PAs work around. I have no issues with the PA making and selling work arounds, but this seems to be the new DAZ phylosophy. Why fix it whan you can make a profit selling the work around.

Moreover G2F is not a DAZ update to fix the issues with Genesis. G2F was done by a PA, so once again DAZ is making a profit off a PAs fixing of DAZ's product.

Seriously, I know you know you don't want to get me started on what I see as questionable if not underhanded busness practises of the New DAZ; remember DAZ was bought out 3 years ago. DAZ hasn't been DAZ in a long time. And that is when their busness model changed drastically.

I don't want to go back to the old models, I want the new models to work like they should and not have to pay for workarounds for issues that should have been fixed long ago. It seems in the past few years DAZ has forgotten what updates, patches and fixes are other then another avenue for profit.

Quote - Naa, V4 got all her updates the first 3 months out.

I have purchased no products to imporve V4's bending.

" And i cant see an issue with someone wanting to see a reward from there research and work that provides a solution to a problem." Razor42

I have big problems with companies not fixing things in order to make a profit off selling the PAs work around. I have no issues with the PA making and selling work arounds, but this seems to be the new DAZ phylosophy. Why fix it whan you can make a profit selling the work around.

I guess when you get the program for free and autofit for free, I imagine DAZ has to charge for something. ;) 

Autofit isn't perfect, but then nothing free is. DAZ makes no money from you reusing your items, so the focus is on base compatibility and content and either you have to work to make it perfect or look at a PA product. This leaves DAZ to work on things that will make them money and the base figure tech instead.

I think people forget that DAZ is a business, not a free community resource. They have to do things to keep the lights on too.

Quote - Moreover G2F is not a DAZ update to fix the issues with Genesis. G2F was done by a PA, so once again DAZ is making a profit off a PAs fixing of DAZ's product.

???

Genesis 2 female is DAZ's new base figure, along with Genesis 2 Male, not a PA product.

Lots of discussion here about Genesis and Genesis 2 M/F needing workarounds and fixes... Does that only apply to using older content, or does the new stuff that is specifically for these figs need workourounds too?

So if it's free and broke that is ok and DAZ isn't responsible for fixing it. Right, nice to know.

And the argument you give is precisely why DAZ wont fix/update anything; IMHO. There is no profit in it. If they release an application or plugin that is broke, that is just too damned bad. You just have to deal with it or buy the work around.

C8.5 was released with more bugs then the beta build. Almost a year and no update, no patches, no fixes. Autofit does not work in C8.5. Genesis compatibility was what Carrara 8.5 was all about. C8.5; even though it was just a .5 update, was by no means free. Yet I still have to deal with a broken app. And this isn't a quibly issue, it is part of the features in C8.5 DAZ charged me for. Part of the reason I use Studio is because autofit works. I mean for me Studio is simply a content prep app for Carrara. You should see what I am doing with the; worked better in DS3, optitex dynaimc clothing. {just finished a new one, longer, but not up yet}.

"I think people forget that DAZ is a business, not a free community resource. They have to do things to keep the lights on too".

You seem to have missed my point, I have no issue with DAZ making a profit, I do have issues with them doing it in what I consider as an unscrupulous manner.

There is a difference between being a responsible business and not fixing applications in order to make a profit selling the work arounds for bugs.

And check your facts G2F is nether new nor a DAZ original.

And keeping the lights on is about DAZ's only expense. It's not like they have developers to pay. DAZ is little more then a PA brokerage now, like Poserworld or RuntimeDNA. DAZ produces very little any more, they ether host for a PA or buy the item out right from the PA {G2F}. Studio used to be great competition for Poser. I remember reading people running Poser down because of the way whom ever owned it at the time was running it. Bad releases, long waits on fixes, fixes that didn't. All those arguments are out the window now. DAZ is now worse then any company that ever owned Poser. Studio used to be superior to Poser, not now though. Studio's development has been stagnating for 3 years.

I'm not sure why people don't realize DAZ gives you studio to make you a customer. DAZ gives you the base figures to sell you the assesories for it. It's called a sales gimmick. You might think DAZ is being magnanimous in giving away Studio and the base figures. Fact is if they didn't, you as well as many, many others wouldn't be DAZ customers. Giving Studio away is actually a great sales gimmick; I have no issues with it. But it's not like DAZ could actually sell Studio. They tried that once and all hell broke lose. Fact is if we hadn't protested so vehemently, you would been paying $400 for Studio now. And I bet it would be just as broken with no fixes forth coming. {see carrara}

I've been a DAZ critic since I was conscripted with carrara. Since DAZ got bought out it has taken a nose dive. DAZ used to release updates/patches regular. Now, none at all.

Quote - Lots of discussion here about Genesis and Genesis 2 M/F needing workarounds and fixes... Does that only apply to using older content, or does the new stuff that is specifically for these figs need workourounds too?

No, genesis is the figure with the most issues. G2F/M are basically the polished up version of Genesis. The boob tuck and poke through are issues that should be solved in autofit, but DAZ sells workarounds for them.

I do my own work around for poke through in carrara, displacement mapping in the textures, works like a charm most of the time and doesn't distort the figure. 

Quote - Moreover G2F is not a DAZ update to fix the issues with Genesis.

or

Quote - G2F/M are basically the polished up version of Genesis. 

?Seems like you have contradicted yourself slightly.

Quote -  Studio's development has been stagnating for 3 years. 

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#change_log

Seems like theres quite a lot of development going on to me at Daz with some major changes and improvents made in the last 3 years to the Daz Studio Core.

Really I dont understand your point about content being developed by Daz or PA's being an issue. G2F and G2M are Daz Originals fully supported and owned by Daz. Your arguement seems a little like saying you don't own your house because you payed someone to paint it or didn't build your own television set.

For someone that won't visit forums because they don't like "Bad Attitudes" you sure walk like you've got a lot of sand in your undies. If things are so bad, Why don't you uninstall your Daz Content and transition to other programs that dont have the crippling issues you seem to see with Daz. No one is forcing you into this relationship.

I'm all for constructive crits and discussion of issues of any kind, but really your blatant negativity and bitterness is kind of well, just sad. So buck up mate surely its not as bad as all that and if it is I wonder why you continue to work with Daz products?

Quote - And keeping the lights on is about DAZ's only expense. It's not like they have developers to pay.

Presumably, DAZ has contractors to pay. It makes little difference what the employment relationship is. What matters is the quality of the product.

Quote - Studio used to be great competition for Poser. I remember reading people running Poser down because of the way whom ever owned it at the time was running it. Bad releases, long waits on fixes, fixes that didn't. All those arguments are out the window now. DAZ is now worse then any company that ever owned Poser. Studio used to be superior to Poser, not now though. Studio's development has been stagnating for 3 years.

I get the impression you are a Carrara user and don't have much experience with DAZ Studio.  DAZ has made the following general (not beta) releases of DAZ Studio in a little over a year:

04 January 2013 - 4.5.1.56
15 May 2013 - 4.6.0.18
30 September 2013  - 4.6.1.17
11 November 2013 - 4.6.1.33
12 December 2013 - 4.6.1.39
10 February 2014 - 4.6.2.118

All of those releases contained bug fixes, and many containted UI enhancements and other new features.  This hardly looks like a product that has been "stagnating for 3 years".

The situation with Carrara is completely different. I have a friend that uses Carrara to make videos. He has told me the Genesis 1 finally works in Carrara 8.5 and clothing on Genese 1 in Carrara has far fewer issues with poke through than V4/M4.  He also says that Genesis 2 does not really work in Carrara 8.5.

Bryce and Hexagon are the DAZ tools that appear to be seriously neglected.

Quote - I'm not sure why people don't realize DAZ gives you studio to make you a customer. DAZ gives you the base figures to sell you the assesories for it. It's called a sales gimmick.

Why do you think people don't understand this? I completely understood it when I downloaded DAZ Studio.

Quote - > Quote - Lots of discussion here about Genesis and Genesis 2 M/F needing workarounds and fixes... Does that only apply to using older content, or does the new stuff that is specifically for these figs need workourounds too?

No, genesis is the figure with the most issues. G2F/M are basically the polished up version of Genesis. The boob tuck and poke through are issues that should be solved in autofit, but DAZ sells workarounds for them.

I do my own work around for poke through in carrara, displacement mapping in the textures, works like a charm most of the time and doesn't distort the figure. 

I think you need to keep this in perspective. From my experience in DAZ studio it is much easier to get clothes to fit on Genesis 1 than on V4/M4. With V4/M4 DAZ Studio does have morph transfer from the character to the clothes and you can add smoothing and push modifiers that help make it fit. Some V4/M4 clothes just never fits correctly on any figure than the one it is intended for.

Auto fit has been improved with Genesis 2. Now none of this means that Auto fit is perfect.  The boob sack effect is real. DAZ does sell products to help you deal with the effect.  I don't see anything evil in a PA selling products to fix this issue.

Genesis 2 is an enhancement on Genesis 1. It addressed some of criticisms of Genesis 1. Genesis 2 has slightly increased polygon counts in some regions like the face, to allow better expressions. By using separate male and female base characters, polygons could be added in the body where each sex needs more polygons. Most DAZ Studio users seem to see Genesis 2 as an improvement on Genesis 1, but some people are upset that there are now two base figures instead of one. In my opinion Gensesis 2 is a imcremental improvement on Genesis 1.

DAZ has also introduced HD morph technology. This apparently allows the subdivided polygons of the figure to be morphed. It is very useful for making monsters, but it can add detail in the hands and feet for characters like Victoria 6. I don't know if HD technology is suppose to work in tools other than DAZ Studio, but it seems pretty solid in DAZ Studio.

Quote - Lots of discussion here about Genesis and Genesis 2 M/F needing workarounds and fixes... Does that only apply to using older content, or does the new stuff that is specifically for these figs need workourounds too?

These issues are all about older content on the newer figures. Some of it is comparable to wanting SNES Cartridges to work on my Playstation 4. And well for the most part autofit does allow a one step process for using these older items on the latest figures. As pointed out shoes and Boob cling has some small issues which seems to rile up some folks. BUt it is possible to work around all of these issues.

From my experience Clothing tailored specifically for Genesis 2 figures looks quite amazing just have a look at some of the Genesis 2 outfits available at Daz.

Can you use Genesis 1 stuff with Genesis 2? I love the Aven hair, and there isn't a g2f version.

Quote - Can you use Genesis 1 stuff with Genesis 2? I love the Aven hair, and there isn't a g2f version.

Sure via autofit it's no problem.

A helpful tip I found for using smart content items on characters the metadata doesnt direct to is to deselect your figure. Locate the item in smart content then drag and drop the item onto your figure. Then use autofit to finish attaching the item.

Quote - Then use autofit to finish attaching the item.

I hate to sound like even more of a DAZ Studio noob, but how does one do that? Is there a tutorial somewhere?

Quote - > Quote - Then use autofit to finish attaching the item.

I hate to sound like even more of a DAZ Studio noob, but how does one do that? Is there a tutorial somewhere?

Its really simple when you try to fit an item to a Genesis character that wasn't created for that specific character a dialogue appears asking what figure it was made for. Select the original figure then it will ask what type of item it is. For example hair (short), hair (Long), shirt, pants...

Then click okay and Daz Studio will take care of the rest of the process.

Genesis and G2F/M are almost the same figure, sort of like V3 and S3; all V3 morphs and skins work on S3. So of coarse there is no issue with genesis clothes on G2F/M.

"As pointed out shoes and Boob cling has some small issues which seems to rile up some folks. BUt it is possible to work around all of these issues".

So a blouse actually tucked up under the breasts in to the model is a small issue? Shoes that look like they went through a meat grinder is a small issue? Ruining any dress run through it is a small issue? And I'm not suposed to get rilled up that Autofit does not live up to DAZ's clames? Or is being fixed? oooooK

Please tell us how to work around these issues with genesis?

Now in the carrara 8.5 beta I could fix these issues by modling in the assembly room, too bad DAZ borked that in the release version. 

"Then click okay and Daz Studio will take care of the rest of the process".

Yup, tuck the shirt deep under the breasts, mangle the shoes, and ruin any dress run through it.

Now this is dependent on poly count and quality of item. I'm not saying it's all bad, but it certainly isn't all good or easy to fix. 

I see my content as an investment, I'm not giving up on that investment because DAZ drops a new dolly. I spent a fair chunk of change for Xdresser licenses so I could upgrade my mil2/3 wardrobe to mil4{as well as adding morphs to V4 clothes that didn't have them}. I thought auto fit was a boon, and it is to some degree it is. But most of the time it's trial and error.

Above is genesis 50% basic female 50% V5 supermodel, she's in V3's Licorice top by evilinnocence, V3's VSfreebie bell bottoms, and V3's Vals hair. All fitted in Studio 4.6 because DAZ borked autofit in the release of C8.5. THAT I PAID FOR. That render is just default settings, a quicky if you will.

But autofit isn't the only thing I use Studio for. Here is an animation calculated in Studio, it's optitex dynamic clothing, staged and rendered in carrara. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2niDstM5jI And as soon as I am done playing I'll try to learn how to use the tools; I used them quite a bit in DS3 but Studio 4 has an entirly new set to learn.

Note: Optitex clothes worked better in DS3, DAZ borked it going to Studio 4 and hasn't even attempted to fix it. Quite a bit of the Optitex clothes I have don't work well in Studio 4.

For a start this statement is not nearly correct, S3 is a morph of V3. ie Same geometry morphed to a new figure shape. So V3 is the base figure and S3 is a morph character.

There are differences between Genesis and Genesis 2 in Geometry, rigging and UVs. Genesis 2 even has additional bones from Genesis in areas like the toes and lower jaw.

The main point that you cannot seem to grasp is there has always been an issue in adding cloth's to a figure that the cloth's were not designed for, this is nothing new. What autofit does is provide an avenue to use the latest figures with your older content. Its not perfect as said numerous times. But compared to losing all of your content its a workable solution.

A lot of the issues your bringing up seem to be more in relation to Carrara then Daz Studio in itself. Something you may want to consider is that in business you need to focus RND,technology innovations and development resources in the right area's of your business. To put resources into areas where you won't see a profitiable return adds up to business suicide. These decisions are the core of good business planning. Make them smart and your business will flourish get them wrong and start packing your boxes.

For example there are few area's when your a PA that are a bit of a minefield. Often you will see posts begging for more male clothing. And sure there is a small market niche for male type clothing and some items do do really well in it. But often the item is released and the six people who have been screaming for it in the forums smile and make the purchase. But 6 purchases doesnt recap the time and resources the PA has invested and its common that the PA ends up out of pocket for the effort.

So the point to the story is that in business you can't always listen to those who scream the loudest for this or that to be done. You need to rely on market reseach and analysis of the key markets. I know for a fact that DAZ puts a lot of time and resources into deciding the best way forward in investing in its current programs and assets. And no decision is treated as trivial when it comes to there customers needs and expectations.

Daz Studio and Autofit are both free as well as all of the Genesis base figures. They are all being continually improved and worked on in area's such as back compatibility with runtime assets, cross compatibility with other programs and functionality within Daz Studio itself.

Redundancy of assets is nothing new in the modern world and I for one am glad Daz has invested the time and resources into providing some kind of solution to keeping these assets alive in our runtimes.

Audio Cassettes, VHS, Beta, Game Cartridges all have faded from mainstream use. Really you can't hold innovators responsible for keeping your back catalogue compatible with all new inventions. 

Really if your the guy who collected 9000 Audio cassettes at $20 a pop do you stand out the front of the Compact disc inventors office and harrass them to include an audio cassette player with every CD drive device they make? So you can continue to validate your investment? Or vow to never buy a CD/MP3 drive because it means you will have to rebuild your music library from scratch. 

Or do you accept the fact that nothing lasts forever and kick back and enjoy the high fidelity sound of CD's and embrace the evolution of the media strata? 

Heres a little render of some G2F's wearing lots of V4 stuff. Using only Daz Studio, Autofit , some smooth modifiers and clothing morph adjustments. All free as part of DS.

:)

I've spent 15 minutes searching the DAZ site for the page to purchase Genesis 2 and I still can not find it. Can someone please help me out?

Thanks.

And thanks, checking on this I saw I hadden't downloaded the templates or DMC for G2.

And no, S3 is a stand alone figure, not a morph of V3. S4 is a morph of V4 though.

"Daz Studio and Autofit are both free as well as all of the Genesis base figures. They are all being continually improved and worked on in area's such as back compatibility with runtime assets, cross compatibility with other programs and functionality within Daz Studio itself".

Thanks, I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

"Really if your the guy who collected 9000 Audio cassettes at $20 a pop do you stand out the front of the Compact disc inventors office and harrass them to include an audio cassette player with every CD drive device they make? So you can continue to validate your investment? Or vow to never buy a CD/MP3 drive because it means you will have to rebuild your music library from scratch".

I have well over 100 albums; you know those big vinyl discs. 8track came out and I updated my music media, bought 8tracks of many of the albums I had pluss new stuff, say around 200. Casettes came out and I once again bought repeats of albums, and 8tracks. Once again close to 200 when CDs came out and I quit updating my music media. I think I have 15 or 20 CDs that I never listen to.

"Or do you accept the fact that nothing lasts forever and kick back and enjoy the high fidelity sound of CD's and embrace the evolution of the media strata?"

My 40 year old albums sound better, richer, fuller and not digetized. New just means new, not better.

"Heres a little render of some G2F's wearing lots of V4 stuff. Using only Daz Studio, Autofit , some smooth modifiers and clothing morph adjustments. All free as part of DS."

I used no smoothing or clothing morph adjustments. And that black suit on the left looks hidious. Looks like painted on clothes. You may be excepting of that sort of thing ruining a render, but I'm not.

See picture above. On the left is a close up of boob tuck; genesis in V4 clothes. On the right is it fixed in carrara using the softbody physics to drape the cloth. How well it works depends on the clothing, so it doesn't always work.

This is why so many developmental companies are releasing schlock now a days, people are not only more excepting of it, but will jump up and defend the company for producing it. No Studio wont ever be perfect, but with out people motivating DAZ to do better, Studio wont be any better ether. I'm sure DAZ thanks you every day for releaving them of the responcability of fixing their broken apps. Sure saves them expences and bumps up thier profit. Especially when they can make further profit off selling workarounds which people are more inclined to buy rather then motivate DAZ to fix anything.

Checking the rigging side by side of genesis and G2 the differences are nominal not enough to change anything except possably how well shoes fit. And nothing like the difference for Mil3 to mil4 or mil4 to genesis.

Quote -  And no, S3 is a stand alone figure, not a morph of V3. S4 is a morph of V4 though.

S3 and V3 are derived from the same mesh, so really they could be morphs of each other. The difference is each has different rigging, so it was an extra burden for content developers to create clothing for each as you had to do two sets of rigging... hence the consolidation of meshes in Gen4 and now Genesis.

Quote - This is why so many developmental companies are releasing schlock now a days, people are not only more excepting of it, but will jump up and defend the company for producing it. No Studio wont ever be perfect, but with out people motivating DAZ to do better, Studio wont be any better ether. I'm sure DAZ thanks you every day for releaving them of the responcability of fixing their broken apps. Sure saves them expences and bumps up thier profit. Especially when they can make further profit off selling workarounds which people are more inclined to buy rather then motivate DAZ to fix anything.

I skipped over the other non-essential stuff because it really boils down to this. Autofit was originally created to ease transition to Genesis, not to enable you to magically use your content in place of Genesis clothing. You had no such facility when you transitioned to Gen3 or Gen4. And other solutions worked worse than autofit. I remember not being able to use pants from Gen3 on gen 4 because they all put a nasty split up the crotch that required an external modeller to fix, but I was generally able to autofit the same pants to Genesis with little issue.

The problem with autofit is that people feel now they're entitled to magically reuse clothing from older generations for free when they never had that capability at all.

You're not.

Once you realize what autofit really is for, then you realize that yes, you have to let go of your Gen4 clothing and purchase clothing for the figure it was made for, otherwise you have to put in the extra work to use it, and stop griping. If you want to keep you older investment, you're going to have to put in the work to keep it... DAZ is all about selling new content, nothing new there... autofit just confused you about its purpose.

We're two generations in Genesis and the focus isn't on Gen4 compatiblity, it's on Genesis. If you can't get past that, then either you need to learn to fix issues or go back to Gen4. Being negative about the fact that you feel DAZ won't help you reuse your content for free isn't going to help one bit. If you're going to use your dresses and shoes from Gen 4 without isssue, then you're going to have to toss autofit and learn how to rig with the Transfer Tool and edit weightmaps... then learn how to do fits so you don't get the boob shrink.... because Gen 1 isn't going to get better than what it is now that we're on Gen2... which clothing has less of boob shrink than gen 1 since clothing is based on the female shape. Or you have to invest in PA tools to help with your reuse quest.

Frankly I don't understand the gross animosity you have on DAZ figures. Like Razor said, if it bothers you that much, then you should probably be looking at some other solution and delete your DAZ stuff from your runtime. It's probably a lot healthier than what you're doing now. 

I realize the limitations of autofit and work around them, but then I have external tools to put my clothing in a state so autofit works better and I get a better result from the clothing I use. I also get a better result from using the Transfer tool in place of autofit and use that sometimes over autofit. But most of all, I use clothing for the figure that it was intended, which is Genesis where possible, because that's where the focus of development from DAZ and the vendors are.

Quote - Further examples. The picture above shows what autofit does to every dress, long shirt, skirt, and loin cloth I put through it. It makes them practically usless.

This is where PA tools come in. Sickleyield made templates that make dresses and loin cloths work better and add dress handles to them.. but it uses the Transfer tool rather than autofit for a better conversion. Still you may have to learn how to adjust weightmaps to get around the issue.

Quote - Checking the rigging side by side of genesis and G2 the differences are nominal not enough to change anything except possably how well shoes fit. And nothing like the difference for Mil3 to mil4 or mil4 to genesis.

The rigging and weightmaps are different enough to improve the bending and reduce the effort vendors make to get characters to bend properly, things that the customer generally do not see. 

My last genesis one set required over 36 JCMs to properly get the hips to bend without mesh deformation because the shapes were outside the norm for the androgynous weightmap that Genesis 1 provides. With Genesis 2, I'm using maybe 6 and that just to make the bend nicer, not correcting mesh deformations. I'm doing less work to make each set more like a specific gender than Genesis 1 and I think my sales reflect that as they're way higher than Genesis 1.

The increase in mesh density means I can use more emotions in my renders where they often looked strange with Genesis 1.

"The problem with autofit is that people feel now they're entitled to magically reuse clothing from older generations for free when they never had that capability at all".

I take it you missed where I pointed out I had spent a lot of $ buying Xdresser licenses to upgrade mil2 clothing to 3 and 3 to 4. Out side of issues with blouse meshes; real easy to fix with Hex and the studio bridge to Hex, I had no other issues with Xdresser. 

"autofit just confused you about its purpose".

No you seem confused about DAZ's responcability as an application developer. DAZ might think not fixing it will force me to buy new clothes for next gen figures, the problem is it does just the opposit. I'm not going to invest in clothes I can't upgrade to the next figure. I bought a lot of clothes for V4 simply because I had the Xdresser license and could pretty well fit them to any figure I wanted. When Studio 4 came out with autofit and DAZ claims about it I bought a buch more V4/M4 clothes figureing to upgrade them to genesis. After working with autofit I bought no more clothes for anything.And if I buy anything for G2 it will be the iconic shapes so I can upgrade my figures clothes to it; but then you can trick around that

I take it you missed all of the clames DAZ made about what autofit was suposed to do? But I really shouldn't expect any better from DAZ, they have a long history of not living up to their hype.

"Frankly I don't understand the gross animosity you have on DAZ figures."

No all my animosity is directed at DAZ and their typical inept profit mongering way of doing things, not the figures. Being a chosen son of the DAZ regime means you have no idea what DAZ has put us redheaded stepchildren carraraest through. As in borking half the new features in C8.5 in it's release, then charging us for it. Autofit worked in the beta, does not now. I could fix badly fitted clothes by modeling in the assembly room in the beta, doesn't work now. And here it is going on a year later with no fixes for ether; and that is just what they borked in the release that I used regular. More over carrara is not a free app, it's $550 and DAZ doesn't seem inclinded to fix the bugs it introed in the release version.

I wonder if DAZ charged you $500 for Studio, then released it with half the new features not working, if you would be so forgiving?

" I'm doing less work to make each set more like a specific gender than Genesis 1 and I think my sales reflect that as they're way higher than Genesis 1".

Ok, that tells me all I need to know. Never mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhBRJStz7w

Head =======> Wall

Rinse repeat...

Quote - > Quote - And keeping the lights on is about DAZ's only expense. It's not like they have developers to pay.

Presumably, DAZ has contractors to pay. It makes little difference what the employment relationship is. What matters is the quality of the product.

Quote - Studio used to be great competition for Poser. I remember reading people running Poser down because of the way whom ever owned it at the time was running it. Bad releases, long waits on fixes, fixes that didn't. All those arguments are out the window now. DAZ is now worse then any company that ever owned Poser. Studio used to be superior to Poser, not now though. Studio's development has been stagnating for 3 years.

I get the impression you are a Carrara user and don't have much experience with DAZ Studio.  DAZ has made the following general (not beta) releases of DAZ Studio in a little over a year:

04 January 2013 - 4.5.1.56
15 May 2013 - 4.6.0.18
30 September 2013  - 4.6.1.17
11 November 2013 - 4.6.1.33
12 December 2013 - 4.6.1.39
10 February 2014 - 4.6.2.118

All of those releases contained bug fixes, and many containted UI enhancements and other new features.  This hardly looks like a product that has been "stagnating for 3 years".

The situation with Carrara is completely different. I have a friend that uses Carrara to make videos. He has told me the Genesis 1 finally works in Carrara 8.5 and clothing on Genese 1 in Carrara has far fewer issues with poke through than V4/M4.  He also says that Genesis 2 does not really work in Carrara 8.5.

Bryce and Hexagon are the DAZ tools that appear to be seriously neglected.

Quote - I'm not sure why people don't realize DAZ gives you studio to make you a customer. DAZ gives you the base figures to sell you the assesories for it. It's called a sales gimmick.

Why do you think people don't understand this? I completely understood it when I downloaded DAZ Studio.

Quote - > Quote - Lots of discussion here about Genesis and Genesis 2 M/F needing workarounds and fixes... Does that only apply to using older content, or does the new stuff that is specifically for these figs need workourounds too?

No, genesis is the figure with the most issues. G2F/M are basically the polished up version of Genesis. The boob tuck and poke through are issues that should be solved in autofit, but DAZ sells workarounds for them.

I do my own work around for poke through in carrara, displacement mapping in the textures, works like a charm most of the time and doesn't distort the figure. 

I think you need to keep this in perspective. From my experience in DAZ studio it is much easier to get clothes to fit on Genesis 1 than on V4/M4. With V4/M4 DAZ Studio does have morph transfer from the character to the clothes and you can add smoothing and push modifiers that help make it fit. Some V4/M4 clothes just never fits correctly on any figure than the one it is intended for.

Auto fit has been improved with Genesis 2. Now none of this means that Auto fit is perfect.  The boob sack effect is real. DAZ does sell products to help you deal with the effect.  I don't see anything evil in a PA selling products to fix this issue.

Genesis 2 is an enhancement on Genesis 1. It addressed some of criticisms of Genesis 1. Genesis 2 has slightly increased polygon counts in some regions like the face, to allow better expressions. By using separate male and female base characters, polygons could be added in the body where each sex needs more polygons. Most DAZ Studio users seem to see Genesis 2 as an improvement on Genesis 1, but some people are upset that there are now two base figures instead of one. In my opinion Gensesis 2 is a imcremental improvement on Genesis 1.

DAZ has also introduced HD morph technology. This apparently allows the subdivided polygons of the figure to be morphed. It is very useful for making monsters, but it can add detail in the hands and feet for characters like Victoria 6. I don't know if HD technology is suppose to work in tools other than DAZ Studio, but it seems pretty solid in DAZ Studio.

Sorry I completely missed your post

Thanks for pointing out the updates to Studio, I'll take back the unfixed/stagnate Studio statements. 

Yes, what matters is the qulity of the product. I'd like to see some in Studio and carrara. There is also the responcability of fixing bugs and issues, something DAZ has been sherking for a while; at least with carrara. You know carrara right, that app people have spent $550 on. As in not free by any measure.

I've been using studio since the set up tools were released in DS3. Didn't have any use for it before then. I used the set up tools a lot. All I have ever used studio for is a content prep app for carrara. But that is still 5 years plus of using it.

Carrara has always fitted clothes on the mil4 figures better then studio did With Xdresser I could put V4 clothes on Mat and Maddie if I was of a mind to. And with carrara I don't have to do anything really special or buy a workaround to fix poke through.  Smoothing is something I use to fix low poly clothes and hair to make it look much better rendered.

I don't find it evil that PAs make/sell work arounds for issues. But it is bad form for DAZ not to fix them in the first place. But then why should DAZ fix it when they are making a profit off selling the PAs work arounds? I mean if I was making a profit off not fixing something I certainly wouldn't fix it.

HD mesh tech; like weight mapping, is absolutly nothing new. New to Studio, but not new to CG apps. All DAZ is doing is bringing that tech in to premades/content. None the less I can still get a lot of detail on a figure using displacement mapping.

Quote - Head =======> Wall

Rinse repeat...

Yup, I'm feeling the same way

Quote - > Quote - Head =======> Wall

Rinse repeat...

Yup, I'm feeling the same way

Its not that im agreeing with you, im just realising that you only take on board one opinion and its your own. You've got quite a knack for skimming responses and focusing on aspects that are easily refuted while missing the main point of the statement. Often removing it from context completely.

Its quite apparent that your quite angry with Daz for not running things as you would deem best. Its funny how we get to a point where we think businesses owe us for buying there products. and get quite angry when they act like, of all things, a business. 

In effect trying to show you the other side of the coin is about as effectual as trying to change the world by banging my head against a wall. So all i can say is goodluck and hopefully someone out there has that panacea almost ready you.

it seems like your more trolling than looking for solutions  to genuine problems. Its hard to help someone who has all the answers already. And if its not solutions your after what are we really talking about here?

So when an application developer releases buggy software, then doesn't fix it, I'm supposed to be happy?

I wasn't agreeing with you ether just pointing out I am in the same boat. You aren't listening to what I have to say ether. "im just realising that you only take on board one opinion and its your own". And you are different how?

DAZ releasing buggy software then not fixing it isn't an opinion, it's a fact. I just don't get why you don't seem to think DAZ should be held responcable for fixing the bugs in the software it releases.

Sorry but dealling with DAZ for ten years has given me this attitude, a few lines from you isn't going to change it. I'm just trying to point out to you DAZ isn't all rainbows and my little ponies. Here is a good example. At one time DAZ was selling a pluggin for studio for the mac OS that didn't work. They continued to sell this product for 8 months knowing it didn't work. That is the DAZ I know. Of coarse they cheerfully refunded your money when you asked, and left the product up in the shop for sale.{people got banned from the DAZ forum for pointing this out}.

Oh I want solutions, but I am not buying a workaround for a bug that needs to be fixed. I had a solution in the C8.5 beta then DAZ broke it in the release. Much like autofit in the carrara beta worked as well as if not better then in Studio, DAZ borked it in the release. If autofit worked in carrara I wouldn't be using it in Studio. Now if a PA can come up with a solution to the isseus why can't DAZ? Simple, they make a profit off selling the work around so are not motivated to fix it.

And the reason I don't do the smooth and push in Studio is because it doesn't transcribe to carrara.

Trolling, no. I just love a conversational debate, or argument. That is as long as the other person doesn't get personal; too late, can hold up their end of the argument, and like markht did, offer up some hard facts to refute my statements.  So far all you have offered up is the same as I, opinions.

Now it is not an opinion that modeling in the assembly room is broken in the release and worked in the beta or that autofit got borked in the release version but worked fine in the beta version of C8.5.

I bought C8.5 a couple of months ago. I have been working trial and error since to get things wroking well enough to use; and that is after having used the beta for 2 years. I had to find solutions to several niggally little bugs when importing studio content/scenes. 

What I am saying is if DAZ hadn't borked the release version of carrara 8.5 I wouldn't be forced to use Studio so much. I used Studio for the optitex dynaimc clothing; fixing that so I could continue to run the calculations in Studio to stage in carrara is one of the very few kudos I can give DAZ. I also used the content tools in studio. That was it, I had no other use for it. Now if we had gotten the promised optitex plugin for carrara, and DAZ saw fit to put the content tools in carrara, and autofit worked I'd have no use for Studio at all.

Meaning if DAZ fixed bugs, followed through on promises, and put content tools in carrara I wouldn't be here now. I could give you a history lesson in just what all DAZ has done to us carraraests, but some how I doubt you'd be interested. So I will put it simply, you got the app for free then bought the content to use in it. I paid for Carrara, I bought content for it, and I still have to use the free app to use the content I bought for carrara in carrara, and DAZ doesn't seem obliged to fix it.

Now DAZ still sells G1, morphs, skins, clothes, and so on. So it is still pertenent that autofit gets fixed to work better with Genasis.  More over where is the loose shirt and long dress options we were promised years ago? Right, yet another broken promise from DAZ.

Do you think you can understand my animosity now?

I'm sorry mate i didnt mean to make it personal, but i must admit you have a way of frustrating people needlessly. When you mentioned daz stagnating i pointed you to the changlog webpage. I show you a render and you insult it and in turn me. 

From what I can tell what your having is issues with carrara. You feel that because you purchased this software you shouldnt have to purchase any workarounds for Daz Studio which you installed free?

There are solutions for all of your issues available in the store. I feel its entirely reasonable to sell workarounds for any short comings in a FREE APP. If you choose not to purchase the solutions and just insist that they be free like the main app then im afraid theres not much help for you. If you dont want to purchase them there are tuts on the forums for creating your own clones and how to repair any clothing with autofit issues if you prefer to do it yourself rather than spend the money for others hard work. So its not like there is no way of fixing what you see as broken. Daz studio is more than just a Carrara content porter.

i am listening to your side, i wouldnt have made so many posts in this thread if i wasnt listening to you. What i will say is honestly i dont understand your way of thinking. 

As far as Carrara goes id suggest bringing your issues to the appropriate forum where you may find people who understand more your issues with it. Myself i have never used it. I will tell you this though. I was a Bryce user many moons ago. I had purchased Bryce 3d for about 300 dollars and later bryce 6 for about 70 dollars. Mac made a change in there OS's from Powerpc to intel and Bryce no longer works. I live in hope that one day Bryce will be updated to work on Macs but im also a realist. and realise that this may never happen. Is it Apples fault or Daz fault? Should i get angry and shake my fists? Or just move on and accept that every tool has limitations and half of this craft is in figuring out ways of bridging the gaps to achieve our goals. almost everyday i find myself seeking solutions to problems i encounter and its very rare i feel the need to pout and say its not fair.

As the OP of this thread, I would like to apologize for starting a thread that turned so negative. However I do still have questions about Genesis.

Can can g2f use Genesis 1 female characters and morphs? Likewise, can g2m use Genesis 1 male characters and morphs? That would make switching to DAZ Studio for the new models a lot more attractive to me.

Oh you didn't start anything, that was all me. No need for you to apoligise.

I checked and G2M has a M5 UVmap option, so skins for M5 should work. I'll assume the same for G2F. Morphs on the other hand, no. Or at least I don't believe so. Morphs are usually figure spacific.

Select the surfaces tab then the figure in the sufaces list, then scroll to find the UVset in the surfaces menu.

One of the things I like about Genesis; especially with what I paid for the elite texture sets, is it has 8 different UV sets to chose from; V4/M4/K4, genesis M/F, V5/M5, and the gorilla.

Manley is gonna hate me but here goes ;)

As far as UV compatibility goes you would need to purchase something like these to if you want more than just M5 and V5 UVs for G2. You will find that most characters are built on the M5/V5 base so these are only necessary for characters that use other UV bases like Aiko, Steph, Freak etc

Generation 5 UV Bundle for Genesis 2 Male(s)

Generation 5 UV Bundle for Genesis 2 Female(s)

V4 and M4 Uvs are also available

For shapes you have:

**Generation 5 Legacy Shapes for Genesis 2 **

Generation 4 Legacy Shapes for Genesis 2

There are also clones available for better clothing fits each way to.

As Manley pointed out Morphs are pretty dependant on geometry so need to be built custom for each figure.

I have both Genesis and Genesis 2 Figures installed, and clothing works much better across these figures. Theres no reason to use either exclusively and I still feel each figure has its advantedges and still use Genesis quite regulary alongside the G2's.

My apologees to if  I helped this thread slip into a negative gear, I guess myself and Manley will just need to agree to disagree. No hard feelings mate :)

Sorry Razor42 but the boob tuck on that one figure drew my eye to it. For me it was so out of place it detracted from the rest of the piece. Certainly no fault of yours. But I'm far more critical of my own renders and why you don't see many.

I don't want the workaround for free, I don't want to have need of them in the first place. If something doesn't work right it doesn't work right, free has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to cut a developer any slack just because it's free. I don't feel anyone should. It just furnishes DAZ with a ready excuse not to try.

And I need to check those tuts because I am a big do it yourselfer. I mean I had been doing this stuff for quite a while before I started using content. Really, the only thing that stops me from being a PA; aside from DAZ taking a big cut, is pure lazyness. I made a shirt and pants for M3 once, got me so frustrated I never tried again.

Yup, Studio is a tinker toy app; as in it ain't much with out all the plugins. Sorry I put Studio in the same catigory as Hexagon, UVmapper, and Genetica.  Tools to help me create scenes in Carrara.

Man the story of Bryce, is that  greek tragety or what? I've never used it but always admired it's atmospherics.

But these are not at all new issues with carrara. Most people knew of these issues 8 months ago. And I am active on the Carrara forum here. Banned from DAZ's, can you guess why? Nope, for pointing out truths DAZ didn't like. Not like I couldn't get back on, but I wont make promises that aren't in my nature to keep.I'm me everywhere I go, and I am not going to bite my tongue for DAZ's benefit.{man I miss my spell checker lol}

For instence this thread would have been axed long ago. But I really don't know why. It's been quit civil. One of the things I like about the renderosity forum is you are not only alloud to have an opinion, but you can express it even if it is negative. You can't gripe about the issues with carrara on the DAZ forum, you can't point out that C8.5 is long over due for a few patches. Because if you do

That is something I am watching the price of

In my opinion morphs are the best bang for the buck for figures. The last thing I bought at DAZ was the creature morphs for genesis.

Fun stuff

Yup, that is an A3 dress. The skirt being above the hip is the only thing that saved it

Quote - Man the story of Bryce, is that  greek tragety or what?

Care to share? I sort of drifted away from the DAZ and Poser scene for a long while.

Also, what was DAZ's first version of Carrara? And if a person never wanted to use DAZ content in Carrara, what version would be the best for them, from a features and stability/lack of bugs standpoint?

At one time Bryce was the undisputed king of CG apps; I was using terragen at the time, it's just a pitty to see how far it has fallen. I will admit DAZ made an honest effort to update and try save it; I've got 5.5 some place. I still admire Bryce's atmospherics, wish carrara's was as good.

As far as the most stable version of carrara, most all are pretty stable on PC. Most of it's issues are content compatability; well DAZ/Poser content. Carrara works prety well with everything else; you know the internet is full of .obj, LWO, 3DS,... models that can be used in carrara. I mean carrara is a stand alone, you can build an entire scene with nothing but effort. Although personally I much prefer hexagon for modeling.

I usually model in Silo.

Quote - Can can g2f use Genesis 1 female characters and morphs? Likewise, can g2m use Genesis 1 male characters and morphs? That would make switching to DAZ Studio for the new models a lot more attractive to me.

Both Genesis 1 and 2 can be used at the same time in DAZ Studio, so you don't have to convert Genesis 1 characters to Genesis 2.

If you decide to convert your Genesis 1 characters, you will need to have the correct UV support for Genesis 2. A lot of Genesis 1 characters used the V4/M4 UVs. You get those in the products:

Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 Female

Michael 4 for Genesis 2 Male

If the skin uses V5/M5 UVs, those are natively supported on the default Genesis 2.

If the skin uses one of the UVs S5, A5, F5, H5 or D5, then there are newly released support for those UVs in:

Generation 5 UV Bundle for Genesis 2 Female(s)

Generation 5 UV Bundle for Genesis 2 Male(s)

The DAZ store unforunately does not give you any information about what UV a character uses. The only way to know for sure is load the skin on Genesis 1 and find the UV property in the Surface pane or ask in the forums if someone knows what UV a given character users.

As for morphs, ie character shapes, you can translate them using

Genesis Generation X2

GenX2 AddOn for Genesis 2

You can also transfer V4/M4 characters to Genesis 1 or 2 using GenX2.

Quote - The DAZ store unforunately does not give you any information about what UV a character uses. The only way to know for sure is load the skin on Genesis 1 and find the UV property in the Surface pane or ask in the forums if someone knows what UV a given character users.

Someone should really compile a list and post it up somewhere, like maybe here in the DAZ Studio forums.

Also, sorry for being a bit thick about this, but could I buy a shape like Mara For Victoria 4 and Genesis, and use it on the g2f figure?

No. Morphs are mesh spacific.

Quote - Also, sorry for being a bit thick about this, but could I buy a shape like Mara For Victoria 4 and Genesis, and use it on the g2f figure?

With GenX2 yes, otherwise no.

Quote - GenX2

What is this? Keep in mind, I have never used DAZ Studio.

Quote - Lots of discussion here about Genesis and Genesis 2 M/F needing workarounds and fixes... Does that only apply to using older content, or does the new stuff that is specifically for these figs need workourounds too?

ONly for using content not designed for it. Like using Wardrobe Wizard or CrossDresser for converting Victoria 3 clothing for Victoria 4. Converted items, using an automated process will never give you result equal to something specifically made for the figure in the first place. Note this has always been specifically true of shoes. 

Quote - > Quote - GenX2

What is this? Keep in mind, I have never used DAZ Studio.

http://www.daz3d.com/genx2-addon-for-genesis-2

GenX allows morph transfers between figures with different mesh geometry.

Quote -
HD mesh tech; like weight mapping, is absolutly nothing new. New to Studio, but not new to CG apps. All DAZ is doing is bringing that tech in to premades/content. None the less I can still get a lot of detail on a figure using displacement mapping.

Really? In what CG APP, other than DAZ Studio, and through DSON Importer for Poser, Poser, is there an animatable Morph of higher resolution than the base resolution, without losing the base resolution in the first place?   

Yes you can sculpt to ridiculus levels in many applications, but you can not apply the results of that sculpting as a morph to the base resolution of the OBJ. Morphs, normally, need 100% vertex compatibliity. 

It is a plug-in and a series of addons for the plug-in for DAZ Studio that allows you to transfer morphs, or complete Characters from other DAZ 3D figures to Genesis or Genesis 2 Male or Genesis 2 Female or between those three.   

For example, I am attaching an image of Blackhearted's GND2 (A v3 Custom Character) shape with the GND4 texture on Genesis.  The advantage, apart from the better joints that Genesis has over V3 is that, unlike with Victoria 3 clothing, you can use Any Genesis clothing on this figure and it, for the most part, just works. With such an extreme shape, there are times you may wish to make some minor tweaks, but in general that isn't necessary. Most shapes are not nearly as extreme. (Note extreme, IMHO, does not equal bad.) 

Well crap. Now I have hundreds of dollars of genesis / genesis 2 stuff to buy.

Quote -
Yes you can sculpt to ridiculus levels in many applications, but you can not apply the results of that sculpting as a morph to the base resolution of the OBJ. Morphs, normally, need 100% vertex compatibliity. 

That is basically what I ment.