Poser Python bug with Tkinter.  If a script with a Tk GUI encounters an error which prevents it from loading completely -- if the Tk GUI is initialized incompletely -- Poser will crash the next time any Tk script is run.  The errored-out Tk instances are still in memory somehow, as in past Poser versions, and will pop up when the good Tk script is ultimately run.  That was true in the past, but before you could close all the zombie Tk GUIs and still run the desired script.  Now any effort to close any of the Tk GUI instances will cause Poser to hang and then crash.

This is bad, but I don't expect it to be something SM will want to fix, since they seem to be abandoning Tkinter support.  I assume they now consider Tk a "swim at your own risk" sort of a thing.  :sad:

But there are a lot of old Tkinter PPy scripts floating around, so users should be aware and be careful.  Like, save your scene before running any suspect script, so you don't lose an hour of work like I did.  :cursing:  :blink:

Quote - Poser Python bug with Tkinter.  If a script with a Tk GUI encounters an error which prevents it from loading completely -- if the Tk GUI is initialized incompletely -- Poser will crash the next time any Tk script is run.  The errored-out Tk instances are still in memory somehow, as in past Poser versions, and will pop up when the good Tk script is ultimately run.  That was true in the past, but before you could close all the zombie Tk GUIs and still run the desired script.  Now any effort to close any of the Tk GUI instances will cause Poser to hang and then crash.

This is bad, but I don't expect it to be something SM will want to fix, since they seem to be abandoning Tkinter support.  I assume they now consider Tk a "swim at your own risk" sort of a thing.  :sad:

But there are a lot of old Tkinter PPy scripts floating around, so users should be aware and be careful.  Like, save your scene before running any suspect script, so you don't lose an hour of work like I did.  :cursing:  :blink:

Is there anyway to spot this script or do we just have to suffer it's appearence?

Quote - Is there anyway to spot this script or do we just have to suffer it's appearence?

I think the way to handle it is to save your work as soon as you encounter an error when trying to run a Python script.  That should be safe, based on what I encountered, since the crash only happens once a second Tk script is run.  If you encounter an error while running a Python script, save your work, perhaps restart Poser, then avoid or (if you know Python) repair or de-bug the bad script.

The trouble from a scripting perspective is that a script may fail to load properly several times during the development process.  So that makes development of any new Tk scripts potentially crash-inducing for Poser.  I guess it really is time to stop using Tk as the quick-and-easy scripting option for Poser Python.  :unsure:

Anyway, the initial script error doesn't cause the Poser crash, and as far as I know you should be able to save your work after the intial script problem.  I only didn't because I'm used to seeing this kind of situation beget very different results.

Quote - > Quote - Is there anyway to spot this script or do we just have to suffer it's appearence?

I think the way to handle it is to save your work as soon as you encounter an error when trying to run a Python script.  That should be safe, based on what I encountered, since the crash only happens once a second Tk script is run.  If you encounter an error while running a Python script, save your work, perhaps restart Poser, then avoid or (if you know Python) repair or de-bug the bad script.

The trouble from a scripting perspective is that a script may fail to load properly several times during the development process.  So that makes development of any new Tk scripts potentially crash-inducing for Poser.  I guess it really is time to stop using Tk as the quick-and-easy scripting option for Poser Python.  :unsure:

Anyway, the initial script error doesn't cause the Poser crash, and as far as I know you should be able to save your work after the intial script problem.  I only didn't because I'm used to seeing this kind of situation beget very different results.

Poser Pro 2014 has been hanging and crashing on me practically since the day I installed it. Could this script error be the cause? Is it specific scripts or does it bounce from one to another?

I'm asking because you've thrown light on a possibility the techs at SM and I have ben going round and round with for almost 8-9 months now.

I can work 2,3 days with no problems- Then pro will hang and crash 5 times in as many  minutes.

Quote - Poser Pro 2014 has been hanging and crashing on me practically since the day I installed it. Could this script error be the cause? Is it specific scripts or does it bounce from one to another?
I'm asking because you've thrown light on a possibility the techs at SM and I have ben going round and round with for almost 8-9 months now.

I can work 2,3 days with no problems- Then pro will hang and crash 5 times in as many  minutes.

I'm not sure I can address whether this could be the cause of, or related somehow to, the crashes you've been encountering.  Do you run a lot of Poser Python scripts, and keep using scripts which give you errors?  The script errors I'm talking about are not ambiguous.  You'll know when they happen.  Poser will notifiy you that the script failed.  Then you'll see a bunch of failed Tk GUI instances pop up before the Poser crash.  Unless you're seeing something like that, I doubt it's the same situation.

I had the kind of trouble you're reporting, when Poser 8 came out.  It's a whole lot of no fun.  :sad:  I still have misgivings about any dealings with Customer Support since then, even though they continue to be helpful and have solved several subsequent problems I've had.  One gets the sense that sometimes they just don't know why Poser may be crashing, for a given user.  :unsure:

What I don't understand is why Poser doesn't cache a scene somehow, to be recovered when there's a crash.  Something like autosave.  The stuff is in the memory.  Seems like something could maybe be done to aid recovery.  I would like a crashed Poser to open up with the scene it held before the crash, sort of like Mozilla remembers what pages I had loaded, when I restart it after a program crash.  Hmm.  I'm sure there's a reason Poser and other programs don't do something like this.  :unsure:

Quote - > Quote - Poser Pro 2014 has been hanging and crashing on me practically since the day I installed it. Could this script error be the cause? Is it specific scripts or does it bounce from one to another?

I'm asking because you've thrown light on a possibility the techs at SM and I have ben going round and round with for almost 8-9 months now.

I can work 2,3 days with no problems- Then pro will hang and crash 5 times in as many  minutes.

I'm not sure I can address whether this could be the cause of, or related somehow to, the crashes you've been encountering.  Do you run a lot of Poser Python scripts, and keep using scripts which give you errors?  The script errors I'm talking about are not ambiguous.  You'll know when they happen.  Poser will notifiy you that the script failed.  Then you'll see a bunch of failed Tk GUI instances pop up before the Poser crash.  Unless you're seeing something like that, I doubt it's the same situation.

I had the kind of trouble you're reporting, when Poser 8 came out.  It's a whole lot of no fun.  :sad:  I still have misgivings about any dealings with Customer Support since then, even though they continue to be helpful and have solved several subsequent problems I've had.  One gets the sense that sometimes they just don't know why Poser may be crashing, for a given user.  :unsure:

Not the same problem then. I haven't seen any error messages. guess I'm grasping at straws. It's been driving me up the wall for months and the techs have been no help. All they can do is ask for more Window Error Reports. There have been days when I've litterally buried them in those damn reports and got no help in return.

Quote - Not the same problem then. I haven't seen any error messages. guess I'm grasping at straws. It's been driving me up the wall for months and the techs have been no help. All they can do is ask for more Window Error Reports. There have been days when I've litterally buried them in those damn reports and got no help in return.

Well, I may have spoken too soon.  I've just had a more mysterious Poser crash, after running a Tkinter Python script (without problems) and then opening the Morph Brush.  I'll have to try a few things, see if I can induce some deliberate crashes to better understand what's going on.  At first glance it sort of looks like Tkinter makes Poser really, really, really very unstable right now.

Hmm.  :unsure:

Quote - > Quote - Not the same problem then. I haven't seen any error messages. guess I'm grasping at straws. It's been driving me up the wall for months and the techs have been no help. All they can do is ask for more Window Error Reports. There have been days when I've litterally buried them in those damn reports and got no help in return.

Well, I may have spoken too soon.  I've just had a more mysterious Poser crash, after running a Tkinter Python script (without problems) and then opening the Morph Brush.  I'll have to try a few things, see if I can induce some deliberate crashes to better understand what's going on.  At first glance it sort of looks like Tkinter makes Poser really, really, really very unstable right now.

Hmm.  :unsure:

I haven't been running any scripts. Just importing obj files. Sometimes the program will hang as soon as the obj is in the work window. Sometimes as soon as I open a scene file- sometimes as soon as the program's started. I never know when it'll happen.

Quote - Has anyone has issues with Poser Pro 2014 merging material zones?

In the correct image above, the light panels are lit correctly. In the other, they've been blended with the structure. The correct image is rendered from the scene file. The other is after the corridor section was exported into an obj and then imported. Everything that needed to be checked, was checked.

I just did a complete un-install of 2014- had a tech help wioth it and go deep for every program file he could find. Then I re-installed the program, my Runtime and my preferences.

The damn thing is still merging textures.

Change the file extension from ".pzz.txt" back to ".pzz" to use the file.  Open the file, go to the Materials Room, select the Preview material for prop "ball_1".  Attempt to connect the "nipple_mask_compd_2" compound node to the "Blender_9" Blending input. On my system, any effort to connect this compound node to another node crashes Poser. Obviously this is a problem.

My other problem involves a Poser App Crash when creating a second Compound Node on a given material, without first stepping out of that material.  If you leave that material for another, then return, there is no crash.  So that's the workaround: leave the material and return, before creating the next Compound Node.  The Poser Team has verified this bug and is working on it.

Quote - > Quote - Has anyone has issues with Poser Pro 2014 merging material zones?

In the correct image above, the light panels are lit correctly. In the other, they've been blended with the structure. The correct image is rendered from the scene file. The other is after the corridor section was exported into an obj and then imported. Everything that needed to be checked, was checked.

 

I just did a complete un-install of 2014- had a tech help wioth it and go deep for every program file he could find. Then I re-installed the program, my Runtime and my preferences.

The damn thing is still merging textures.

Just tried a test export in other formats. .3ds messes up like the obj files. But, if I export/import a lightwave file, all the textures come in where they belong. Sent the file off to SM.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Has anyone has issues with Poser Pro 2014 merging material zones?

In the correct image above, the light panels are lit correctly. In the other, they've been blended with the structure. The correct image is rendered from the scene file. The other is after the corridor section was exported into an obj and then imported. Everything that needed to be checked, was checked.

 

I just did a complete un-install of 2014- had a tech help wioth it and go deep for every program file he could find. Then I re-installed the program, my Runtime and my preferences.

The damn thing is still merging textures.

 

Just tried a test export in other formats. .3ds messes up like the obj files. But, if I export/import a lightwave file, all the textures come in where they belong. Sent the file off to SM.

Lightwave to obj worked one time.

Second time round, The obj imported with the entire model merged into one texture. So, I took the lightwave file into Poseray, applied the textures, saved the file as a Poseray obj and imported that into Poser Pro. Poser accepted that one okay. Wether this will work a third time, I don't know yet.

Why won't a readScript call an .mc6 file??  If I edit it to convert it to a MAT pose (changing one line) it loads fine...

The new preview style modifications they've made, to allow a textured-wireframe combo display, really interfere with props in a scene.  It is now impossible to simultaneously view a figure's wireframe while showing a magzone, joint zone, or hair prop in outline mode.  This causes workflow problems.  I doubt SM would consider this a bug, but I definitely do.  Useful functionality in the program has been lost, presumably because someone didn't think through all of the ramifications of a new tweak to the display modes.  This issue is fast becoming my new primary pull-your-hair-out irritation with Poser.  Grumble.  :sad:

Anyway, does anyone have a trick to make the display work the way it used to?

A couple of additional issues I've found.  First, it is no longer possible to tack an actor onto the surface of a figure and weld the new actor on top of the original.  I used to use this to overlay nipples with new UV mapping, where they could serve a dual purpose as a new texturing option and breast body handles.  Or tack on a new genital actor, weld it seamlessly to the existing surface.  A side benefit of this weld trick was that the welded overlay actors would automatically copy the morphs from the actor to which they were welded, if all the vertices matched.  That functionality is gone, presumably as part of the figure skinning changes they've made.  So that's a Poser Techie trick which has fallen away.

The next issue also involves tacking an actor onto an existing figure.  I plug in all the correct cr2 bits to add an actor to the figure, but somehow the weightmaps do not become editable.  Nowhere in the cr2 file can I find any toggle which would allow or disallow editing of the weight maps and joints for the new actor.  I suspect Poser is forcing the issue, based on whether the actor is part of the figure base geometry.  If you want to add an actor to the figure without modifying the base geometry, it seems that you have now lost part of the functionality.  Once again, a Poser Techie trick, a useful one, in my view, has been lost.  Interestingly the smoothscales for the added actor are still editable.  Only the bend-twist-side parameters cannot be altered using the joint tools.

None of these are critical issues, all are presumably unintended side effects of progress, but they are all frustrating losses to the functionality of the software.  I see a day coming when we will lose the ability to build figures any way except the "correct" one, and Poser will no longer have the delightful flexibility it has offered users for so long.  :sad:  But I also panic easily about these things.  :unsure:

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Has anyone has issues with Poser Pro 2014 merging material zones?

In the correct image above, the light panels are lit correctly. In the other, they've been blended with the structure. The correct image is rendered from the scene file. The other is after the corridor section was exported into an obj and then imported. Everything that needed to be checked, was checked.

 

I just did a complete un-install of 2014- had a tech help wioth it and go deep for every program file he could find. Then I re-installed the program, my Runtime and my preferences.

The damn thing is still merging textures.

 

Just tried a test export in other formats. .3ds messes up like the obj files. But, if I export/import a lightwave file, all the textures come in where they belong. Sent the file off to SM.

Lightwave to obj worked one time.

Second time round, The obj imported with the entire model merged into one texture. So, I took the lightwave file into Poseray, applied the textures, saved the file as a Poseray obj and imported that into Poser Pro. Poser accepted that one okay. Wether this will work a third time, I don't know yet.

Just had a remote tech connect with my system and check it over. He said my system's fine- there's nothing that could be causing Poser Pro 2014 to act up. On another front, it seems- at the moment- the only obj files Pro will accept are the ones I make in Poseray from the Lightwave export.

So, from Poser Pro 2014, I have to export in Ligtwave, take that file into Poseray, apply the textures there, save it as an obj from that program, before I have an obj file that will work in Pro 2014.

What's wrong with this picture? This just started 4 days ago.

The same materials-swapping bug noted above also occurs when toggling various body part actors to subdivide separately from the figure, if multiple instances of the same figure base are present in the scene.  Poser seems to become confused about the geometries somehow.  The issue goes away after the file is saved and reopened after restarting Poser, at which point the proper materials can be restored.  Presumably this set of bugs was introduced somehow as a side effect of the new skinning methods and subdivision, then.  Odd that it should have shown up in relationto a cloth simulation, with no figure subdivision in the scene.  :unsure:

I don't want to keep perseverating on this same issue, but I have a guess as to why I'm encountering it.  Poser figure actors can have three types of geometry.  Two might be called 'canonical', while the third is a Poser Techie hack.  The default figure actor (body part) geometry handling is geomHandlerGeom.  If you modify an actor with the Grouping Tool, that actor will acquire embedded geomCustom geometry if you save it in a pz3.  If you save a figure with geomCustom to the library, Poser spawns a new .obz file for the figure.  I hate having Poser mess with my obj base geometry listings and it doesn't seem to weld its obz exports, so I try to avoid geomCustom embedments in my figures. 

That's where the third geometry listing type comes in.  The objFileGeom listing allows an actor to have customized geometry, modified groups or materials, say, without using geomCustom.  It's a very useful option.  Unfortunately, objFileGeom listings in a figure look like they may be the cause of the bug I've been reporting.  The figures which are having the trouble use objFileGeom on the head and hip and on some actors I've added to the figure, mainly to introduce more screening groups for use with the Morph Brush and weight map tools.  Useful.  But, as far as I can tell, a figure with objFileGeom listings makes Poser go berserko when you use the new subdivision.  Or when you confuse the Cloth Room somehow.  The new skinning and subdivision tricks have made Poser intolerant of objFileGeom body parts, as far as I can tell.

Personally, I think that's unacceptable, but there's really no way to get that point across to the Poser Team.  Talking to Customer Support goes nowhere fast.  One is left to kvetch on various forums, hoping one of the Inside People will happen to notice what you're saying.  Poser's bug-reporting methodology is buggy and broken.  :unsure:

Quote -  Talking to Customer Support goes nowhere fast.  One is left to kvetch on various forums, hoping one of the Inside People will happen to notice what you're saying.  Poser's bug-reporting methodology is buggy and broken.  :unsure:

Agreede- totally. I've been going round and round with them for 8 months now on my hanging and crashing issues with Pro2014 and they still have no answer for me.

Quote - Agreede- totally. I've been going round and round with them for 8 months now on my hanging and crashing issues with Pro2014 and they still have no answer for me.

They seem to act mainly as threshold guardians, who are present primarily to prevent any information from the users from actually getting through to the Poser Team.  The process involves unnecessary hassles (report the same data over and over, in various bug reports, rather than having it in a database so Customer Support can call it up at need?  WTF?).  The CS representatives seem to have a default mode of 'blame any error on the user'.  The CS representatives are terse and uninformative, even evasive.  The bug-reporting page is flawed; I have never been able to upload a file.  Too, the link-handling on the download e-mails SM will send are screwy and flawed, susceptible to errors in ways that download link e-mails from other companies are not.  These latter two cases were blamed on the user, but Customer Support.  Customer Support is there to tell you, "That's not our problem.  That's your problem."  Frankly, the whole bug reporting process sucks eggs.  :cursing:  :lol:

Quote - > Quote - Agreede- totally. I've been going round and round with them for 8 months now on my hanging and crashing issues with Pro2014 and they still have no answer for me.

They seem to act mainly as threshold guardians, who are present primarily to prevent any information from the users from actually getting through to the Poser Team.  The process involves unnecessary hassles (report the same data over and over, in various bug reports, rather than having it in a database so Customer Support can call it up at need?  WTF?).  The CS representatives seem to have a default mode of 'blame any error on the user'.  The CS representatives are terse and uninformative, even evasive.  The bug-reporting page is flawed; I have never been able to upload a file.  Too, the link-handling on the download e-mails SM will send are screwy and flawed, susceptible to errors in ways that download link e-mails from other companies are not.  These latter two cases were blamed on the user, but Customer Support.  Customer Support is there to tell you, "That's not our problem.  That's your problem."  Frankly, the whole bug reporting process sucks eggs.  :cursing:  :lol:

What they need is the same kind of set up that MyComputer Works- an internet remote tech company- uses. They have the means to connect with your system and see the problem first hand- in real time- and deal with it then and there.  SM keeps saying they're working with a simular system based on the specs I sent them.

Sorry, simular isn't mine. If they're not working with my system, they're not going to find any answers.

Quote - > Quote - Agreede- totally. I've been going round and round with them for 8 months now on my hanging and crashing issues with Pro2014 and they still have no answer for me.

They seem to act mainly as threshold guardians, who are present primarily to prevent any information from the users from actually getting through to the Poser Team.  The process involves unnecessary hassles (report the same data over and over, in various bug reports, rather than having it in a database so Customer Support can call it up at need?  WTF?).  The CS representatives seem to have a default mode of 'blame any error on the user'.  The CS representatives are terse and uninformative, even evasive.  The bug-reporting page is flawed; I have never been able to upload a file.  Too, the link-handling on the download e-mails SM will send are screwy and flawed, susceptible to errors in ways that download link e-mails from other companies are not.  These latter two cases were blamed on the user, but Customer Support.  Customer Support is there to tell you, "That's not our problem.  That's your problem."  Frankly, the whole bug reporting process sucks eggs.  :cursing:  :lol:

So I'm not the only one who thinks this. Good to know. I've heard others claim the tech support is very helpful. That has not been my experiance. I did get them once to agree that it wasn't user error, but they had no solution at the time and would have to look into it further. Haven't heard a word about it since.

Quote - So I'm not the only one who thinks this. Good to know. I've heard others claim the tech support is very helpful. That has not been my experiance. I did get them once to agree that it wasn't user error, but they had no solution at the time and would have to look into it further. Haven't heard a word about it since.

They can be helpful.  I have had the odd constructive encounter with them, but such cases were unusual.  In my experience, they can be helpful in the same way that the Hair Room styling tools can be useful.  It's really a special case, when it works, and the default situation is no-good-very-bad-all-snafubar-useless.  :unsure:

I think the main CS rep is a Rosity member and a Poser user, and I don't mean to malign that individual, who seems to be the one with whom I have consistently dealt.  I suspect it is a broken system, a bad process, rather than a rotten employee or two.  I'm sure the individual in question is well-intentioned and remarkably patient in a difficult job, but that hardly matters when the end result is so bad.  Oh well.  Didn't mean to turn this into a Poser Customer Support hatefest.  :unsure:  :lol:

Quote - > Quote - So I'm not the only one who thinks this. Good to know. I've heard others claim the tech support is very helpful. That has not been my experiance. I did get them once to agree that it wasn't user error, but they had no solution at the time and would have to look into it further. Haven't heard a word about it since.

They can be helpful.  I have had the odd constructive encounter with them, but such cases were unusual.  In my experience, they can be helpful in the same way that the Hair Room styling tools can be useful.  It's really a special case, when it works, and the default situation is no-good-very-bad-all-snafubar-useless.  :unsure:

I think the main CS rep is a Rosity member and a Poser user, and I don't mean to malign that individual, who seems to be the one with whom I have consistently dealt.  I suspect it is a broken system, a bad process, rather than a rotten employee or two.  I'm sure the individual in question is well-intentioned and remarkably patient in a difficult job, but that hardly matters when the end result is so bad.  Oh well.  Didn't mean to turn this into a Poser Customer Support hatefest.  :unsure:  :lol:

Sometimes the only way to get things fixed is to rock the boat.

Will Pro 2014 files work in Poser 10? I'm at the point where I'm ready to switch if they will.

Quote - Will Pro 2014 files work in Poser 10? I'm at the point where I'm ready to switch if they will.

There shouldn't be any problem with that, AFAIK.  Pro14 and Poser 10 have the same basic capabilities, but Poser 10 lacks the extra tools found in the Pro version.

Quote - > Quote - Will Pro 2014 files work in Poser 10? I'm at the point where I'm ready to switch if they will.

There shouldn't be any problem with that, AFAIK.  Pro14 and Poser 10 have the same basic capabilities, but Poser 10 lacks the extra tools found in the Pro version.

At this point, I don't care anymore. I have been fighting 2014 for almost 9 months now. I paid for a working program- and they have not delivered one. I have a tech appointment for tomorrow to run compatibility check on my system- I'm going to tell them to check every program- both mine and all of Windows. There's got to be something screwing things up.

If they don't find something, I'm going to switch.

In Poser10, dynamic cloth simulations don't obey the settings for collision objects.  Example: a forearm brushes against a hip and it grabs the dynamic cloth of a pair of shorts parented to the hip even though forearm is not one of the collision objects for the shorts.  The dynamic cloth simulation then blows up.  Seems to happen when I've already run a bullet physics simulation on the figure, though I haven't tested the simulation without a bullet physics run.  Cloth sim fails even if prior bullet physics simulation is cleared. 

This is a major disappointment since I would like to be able to run a bullet simulation of a figure's body then run dynamic cloth sims for clothing.

Poser Customer Support has finally gotten around to taking up the issues I have reported on the previous page, those which I speculate may relate to objFileGeom body part geometries.  The bug has been passed on to the development team, where it may go somewhere or nowhere, who knows.  :unsure:

In the midst of this, I think I may have managed to work out what Customer Support wants from us.  I am working on some rules of thumb, for my own (shudder) future interactions with CS.  I will share them here, since others seem to have difficulty working with CS.

1. That information you enter on the initial bug reporting form, hardware details, OS and Poser version, all of that, WILL BE IGNORED by the CS rep if and when that rep finally passes a report on to the dev team.  Or not ignored.  It may depend on the mood of the rep.  Nonetheless, to avoid hassles, have all the data ready to hand them a second or third time.  Put it all in a text file, so you can copy and paste the data with minimal hassle.

2. Gather every little detail about your hardware that you can, because the category of "hardware information" may be broad or narrow, depending (perhaps) on the mood of the CS rep.  I use Speccy to gather all of my data into txt format.  Edit out the private bits (Windows serial number, etc), then save the modified file.  To be sure the CS rep always gets whatever is needed (don't expect them to tell you precisely what they need, just that they don't have it), copy and paste the entire modified Speccy text file to send to Customer Support.

3. If a report is finally passed on to the development team, the CS rep will also want from you a listing of all of your Runtime locations.  Prepare this in advance and keep it ready for these encounters.

4. Don't expect the CS rep to cooperate with you, or to inform you of their needs.  Half of what the rep states in those ticket discussions is being entered for the record, to prove to bosses or observers that the rep was doing his or her job adequately.  The CS rep seems to like to talk past  the user and ignore questions.  You, the user, may wish to likewise address the boss or observer.  Tell them what the CS rep is doing well or badly.  CS may not tell you their needs in a clear and straightforward manner, but you should try to tell them your needs clearly, firmly, and (probably) repeatedly.  As mdbruffy notes, "Sometimes the only way to get things fixed is to rock the boat."

5. If you can't upload files to the Customer Support bug reporting website, you may be able to send smaller files as e-mail attachments.  This will not work with larger files, if your e-mail client has a file size limit.  In that case, you need to upload to a website.  If you do not have a website to which you can upload such files, do not expect the CS rep to readily inform you of options.  The CS rep repeatedly noted that I was not providing sample files, while consistently ignoring my requests and demands that I be informed of, or provided with, options to allow me to share the files with them.

I finally did get an option from the CS rep, and it may be the option preferred by Smith Micro.  SM has a website called sendstuffnow.com, where a user may be able to create a trial account and upload files for use by the Poser development team.  Do not expect the CS rep to tell you this readily.

1. If you are having a really bad time with the CS rep, do not start to think of the individual as some obnoxious twerp who is abusing what little power he or she has, deliberately obstructing a user and preventing important information from being passed on to the Poser development team.  That way leads to the Dark Side, where anger and frustration lead to ever-worsening CS encounters.

Rather than this, think of the CS rep as C3-PO, a rigid, autocratic, literal-minded, stuffy, perhaps sneaky, robot.  The droid is silly and pitiful.  You are not fighting an ogre, you are laughing at a silly automaton.  It is important to regulate how you think of the CS rep, because that rep can seemingly make things go well or badly for you, depending on mood.  C3-PO may seem obseqious and meek, but may also be taking subversive action, like when they were all captives of Jabba the Hutt, right?  Do not offend C3-PO, if you can avoid it, because he isn't necessarily on your side just because surface behavior suggests it.

1. Have a buddy on the beta team, to whom you can turn if all else fails and an important issue isn't being communicated.  Do not abuse the beta-buddy!  Misuse of such personal connections is inappropriate, and offensive to the buddy.  Only use this option when the real point at issue is the potential improvement of Poser.

2. Use the forums.  Sometimes the Inside People do pay attention to the kvetching.  Not always.  It's hard to get their attention, but it can happen.  They may actually take an interest, if an issue does potentially point toward the improvement of Poser.

3. Remember that we are all on the same team.  We all want to make Poser better.  It is easy to forget this, but it is true.  You may need to remind others of this fact.

I am having repeating problems with "Apply to all..." in the Materials Room.  It sometimes works, but other times it only works with one material on an object.  The problem may predominantly affect objects created using Python during the current Poser session.

Has anyone else noticed anything with ths function?  If it mainly relates to Python-created geometries, the issue may relate to some memory-handling bugs Poser seems to have developed with geometries in general. 

cage, I've found when talking to colin on phone, he has helped with stuff.  do they still take calls? it's more personal and they can tell when one is sympatico and respond accordingly.  I know you are friendly and they probably like you.

c:/Poser9/runtime/poserscripts/grapher 

but it messes when the script is in the default Program Files location. 

I suspect spaces in the command line are causing the parts of the name to be treated as separate argv's.  The picture shows what the Zeus editor thinks when I try to ctrl-click for a single script.  It tries to load five separate files named Program and Files and Smith and Poser and Movecolorinwire.py.  Of course it doesn't find any of those files, so it creates 5 new files with really dumb names.

Even dumber, Micro was treated as a folder name, which was added to the Windows 'recent folders' list.

Quote - I suspect spaces in the command line are causing the parts of the name to be treated as separate argv's.  The picture shows what the Zeus editor thinks when I try to ctrl-click for a single script.  It tries to load five separate files named Program and Files and Smith and Poser and Movecolorinwire.py.  Of course it doesn't find any of those files, so it creates 5 new files with really dumb names.

I see something similar to this when I set idle.pyw as my default Python editor in Poser.  Five windows open, each named for a single folder along the idle.pyw path, not one of them containing any editable Python data.  Hmm.  :unsure:

Quote - > Quote - I suspect spaces in the command line are causing the parts of the name to be treated as separate argv's.  The picture shows what the Zeus editor thinks when I try to ctrl-click for a single script.  It tries to load five separate files named Program and Files and Smith and Poser and Movecolorinwire.py.  Of course it doesn't find any of those files, so it creates 5 new files with really dumb names.

I see something similar to this when I set idle.pyw as my default Python editor in Poser.  Five windows open, each named for a single folder along the idle.pyw path, not one of them containing any editable Python data.  Hmm.  :unsure:

Cage, none of your links seem to work. Every one I clicked on gave me a 404 error- couldn't find the web page.

Unfortunately the Phantom 3D server has been offline for a while.  However, a couple of Cage's Page's are available on the Wayback Machine:

Cage's Scripts:

http://web.archive.org/web/20110424111327/http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/scripts/scripts.html

Cage's Antonia Stuff

http://web.archive.org/web/20120328125446/http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/Antonia/Antonia_stuff.html

Cage's 2007 Freebies:

http://web.archive.org/web/20111111101115/http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/2007/BGpage.html

Cage's 3D Adventure Game:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120107045658/http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/DBP_Adventure/dbpadventure.html

Unfortunately the Loop Scripts and That Darned Morph Thing pages weren't archived...

Quote - Unfortunately the Phantom 3D server has been offline for a while.  However, a couple of Cage's Page's are available on the Wayback Machine:

Cage's Scripts:

http://web.archive.org/web/20110424111327/http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/scripts/scripts.html

Cage's Antonia Stuff

http://web.archive.org/web/20120328125446/http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/Antonia/Antonia_stuff.html

Cage's 2007 Freebies:

http://web.archive.org/web/20111111101115/http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/2007/BGpage.html

 

Cage's 3D Adventure Game:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120107045658/http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/DBP_Adventure/dbpadventure.html

 

Unfortunately the Loop Scripts and That Darned Morph Thing pages weren't archived...

Okay. I was curious to see what he had available. Thank you.

Cage is aware of the irony inherent in the fact that he keeps complaining about bugs and bugs and things not working correctly, even while his sigline is buggy.  :unsure:  Ahem.

Thanks for the Wayback links, WandW.  I didn't realize any of my stuff could be found there.

Well, I guess we'll see how SM perform regards bugs because here's a list of always repeatable ones:

• Roxies right eye will not highlight with the red line when moused over.
• Roxies right eye moves out of place when rotating a light.
• Hand poses do not not carry over when using Figure Symmetry, it might as well not exist.
• Show Mesh does not work, it only shows on Roxie's eyes for example.
• Mirroring in the Morph Tool from one side to the other leaves random vertices out and might as well not exist.
• Moving a light effects mirrored morphs on Roxies head.
• Hair Room is chaotic and unrelieable, stray hairs render it unusable for believable hair animation.
• Walk Designer produces a twitch on each walk cycle rendering it uselss for believable walk cycles.
• Bullet Physics not real time, they only move around while mouse button is pressed and mouse is moving.
• Figure meshes still splitting in ZBrush despite I though this was fixed (fixed only for GoZ output).
• Accuracy error causing head shift if importing an 'obj as a morph.

In a nutshell there needs to be some serious bug crushing done on Poser 10 and no doubt Pro 2014.  I really love the software but right now I'm furious.  It feels like nothing in the program works without an issue.

I've never seen an SR4 for Poser before, but I'll say this, the current SR for Poser 10 is absolutely not acceptable, the program is flakey beyond belief, to the point where it's stopping me doing anything useful with it.

Those are all reproducable problems and need fixing.  I won't be paying for the next release in order to get the fixes.  New features need to come after you've given the customers what you promised (and they've paid for) in the current release unless you plan to give away the next version.

It's just not on, SM.  I paid for working figures, working walk designer, working dynamic hair, working bullet physics, working morph brush.

Quote - Well, I guess we'll see how SM perform regards bugs because here's a list of always repeatable ones:

• Roxies right eye will not highlight with the red line when moused over.
• Roxies right eye moves out of place when rotating a light.
• Hand poses do not not carry over when using Figure Symmetry, it might as well not exist.
• Show Mesh does not work, it only shows on Roxie's eyes for example.
• Mirroring in the Morph Tool from one side to the other leaves random vertices out and might as well not exist.
• Moving a light effects mirrored morphs on Roxies head.
• Hair Room is chaotic and unrelieable, stray hairs render it unusable for believable hair animation.
• Walk Designer produces a twitch on each walk cycle rendering it uselss for believable walk cycles.
• Bullet Physics not real time, they only move around while mouse button is pressed and mouse is moving.
• Figure meshes still splitting in ZBrush despite I though this was fixed (fixed only for GoZ output).
• Accuracy error causing head shift if importing an 'obj as a morph.

In a nutshell there needs to be some serious bug crushing done on Poser 10 and no doubt Pro 2014.  I really love the software but right now I'm furious.  It feels like nothing in the program works without an issue.

I've never seen an SR4 for Poser before, but I'll say this, the current SR for Poser 10 is absolutely not acceptable, the program is flakey beyond belief, to the point where it's stopping me doing anything useful with it.

Those are all reproducable problems and need fixing.  I won't be paying for the next release in order to get the fixes.  New features need to come after you've given the customers what you promised (and they've paid for) in the current release unless you plan to give away the next version.

It's just not on, SM.  I paid for working figures, working walk designer, working dynamic hair, working bullet physics, working morph brush.

You're not the only one- and those aren't the only bugs. I've been having Hang and crash issues with 2014 ever since I installed it almost a year ago- and the same with P10. SM keeps blaming my system when P9 worked just fine on the same system. Unfortunately, once a new Poser tastes your files, you can't go back.

I had noted this one in separate thread, and have reported it...

I was using Roxie and happened to look at the mesh of her head as loaded with subdivision at zero, and the right eye is subdivided. I looked at the settings for each eye, and both eyes are set to subdivide separately, with the subdivision level at zero for the left and 2 for the right.

edited bekuz I cant spelll...

You can say that again, the bugs I've listed above are by no means all of them.  I'm just getting back into Poser after a long break from it.  I'm going through the features it has and I honestly don't think I've tried a single aspect of the program that doesn't have issues.

The last thing I tried, the thing that totally drove me to post that list, was the symmetry on the hands.  It got to the point where before I tried it, strictly out of sarcasm, I thought to myself "I bet that doesn't work either".

And guess what?
It didn't, even something so basic.

So even a simple thing like mirroring a set of rotation values from one hand to the other doesn't work.  I appreciate they have time frames, and they need to prioritise stuff, but SM also need to realise they're selling a product to people that does not do what they advertised it does, and personally, I expect to get what I paid for.

SR releases are fine as long as they actually fix what is broken.  All bugs listed are repeatable and therefore fixable for SR4.  I look forward to a functioning Poser 10.

SM need to hold off new features until the current ones we've paid for, are working as advertised.  I personally bought into Poser again hoping to become a vendor, but the sheer state of the program isn't something I want to concern myself with.  I'd rather look into other ways to earn myself some pocket-money than deal with this level of reliability.  Quality control feels non-existent in Poser, and if time constraints are the reason, they need to give themselves a larger amount of time, that much is obvious.

From now on I will test rigourously on every release, and if it fails on anything I need or purchased it for, it'll be back for a refund.  On every SR I will re-purchase, and on ever SR it will be refunded if it continues to fail.  If they sell me something I paid for, something stable and usable (which is not too much to ask), I'll be extremely happy to keep it, use it, and develop for it.

Until then ...

SM, please sort it out.  The amount of bugs in Poser is clearly damaging it judging from the general observations around the forums.  Business is business, but customers are customers, and without those customers, Poser will have no business if this lax quality control issue continues.  If customers can't do what they paid to do, they'll eventually stop paying to do it and look elsewere.  Much better to have people praising Poser for how rock solid it is than to have them looking elsewhere!

Cars that constantly break down are soon gotten rid off, software is no different.

o.k., great!  now I know what TDMT means!  here is cage thread on it:

thread_id=2677445&page=29#message_2956031

Quote -- Roxies right eye will not highlight with the red line when moused over.

This is because her right eye is set at subD 1 in preview mode by default. If you set it back to 0 it will highlight red. Same for the left eye, only it is set at 0 by default. I'm guessing both eyes were intended to be set to the same value by default but one got missed. 

In theory, you should be able to set the subD back to 0 and save Roxie back to the library. A quick Memorize Figure (Figure menu) wouldn't hurt, but that has more to do with rigging than anything else.

Quote - - Roxies right eye moves out of place when rotating a light.

I couldn't get this to happen, but I've seen it happen randomly before so I know what you're talking about. I suspect it has something to do with the subD of her right eye set at 1. Tho, that shouldn't be causing it. 

Quote - - Hand poses do not not carry over when using Figure Symmetry, it might as well not exist.

If you pose each joint individually then they will mirror over. If you're using the posing controls then it depends on how the controls were set up as to whether they will mirror correctly or not. This has to do with the figure's rigging though, not with Poser itself. 

Quote - - Show Mesh does not work, it only shows on Roxie's eyes for example.

Where are you accessing a "show mesh" command from? I can't find it in any of the Pp2014 menus. I always use the display style menu to see the mesh. This can affect different display options, depending on if you have the figure or element style set to something different than document style.

Quote - - Mirroring in the Morph Tool from one side to the other leaves random vertices out and might as well not exist.

This can happen if the mesh is not symmetrical. I'm not sure if Poser tries to correct for assymetry or not, but I know that Roxie's mesh is off-center a small amount in the upper torso and head. I was able to mirror large shapin morphs across her skull, but mirroring wouldn't work from one shoulder to the other. 

Quote -- Moving a light effects mirrored morphs on Roxies head.

I tried to duplicate this but couldn't. Maybe somehow you've created an ERC that is affected by the light. I don't know if P10 has the dependency editor or not, but if it does, and you were messing with different settings, it's possible you accidentally created an erc with the light. I don't know of any other way to get a light to affect a morph. 

The other issues you mentioned I don't have experience with, (I don't use the hair room for example), but I just thought it's important to note some of these issues are due to the figure you're using specifically and not the program itself. I think its also a valid argument for quality control on figures. 

I get that SM isn't a content provider, however figures are a bit different. The main figures are more like a part of the software, since that's the whole reason the software exists to begin with. I don't think most folks buy Poser for architectural or mechanical projects. Its main purpose is human figure posing, so the figures it comes with should be top notch. At the very least they should have all their bugs worked out, so that at least issues like those listed here aren't confused with being bugs in the software. But that's just my opinion. 

~Shane

That's creepy, I just suspected the same thing when I saw your post about Roxie 1.1 that it might be down to the figure.

Please see my question in the other thread :-)

Thanks for the heads-up on the various aspects, and yes, it's damn frustrating when I can't do what I wanted to do with it.  I'm not prepared to vend for something this problematic because it'll just come back on me with customers complaining and thinking I'm to blame for it.  I would end up looking into problems that have nothing to do with me.

I'll be honest and admit I'm pretty obsessive about things working correctly, and anything I vend (if ever that happens) will hopefully show it.  That's going to be impossible to do with the state of the program (or figures) right now, I can't make stuff that works properly if what I'm basing it on, doesn't work.

And then there's the severe lack of technical documentation for developing content.  I mean, I see Standard and Unimesh in the menu and haven't a clue what the differences are other than bit's and pieces I've gathered from what's been posted on the forum.

Beats me how they expect vendors or potential vendors to get it right if they don't put out documentation for this stuff.  There needs to be a dedicated manual for Poser content developers, something that lists each of Posers technologies and gives the vendor the info they need to make the best use of it.

Anyway, thanks again Shane, and well said on the importance of getting the figure working right.  If it does happen to be down to the figure then they're doing themselves a disservice by not testing these things enough.

**
PS:** Shane, I was accessing Show Mesh from the Morph Brush in Poser 10 :-)

sorry if this has been posted before.

I just updated to Pro 2014 v 10.0.3.26510

Now when I double click on a dial the dial name is highlighted instead of the parameter setting. This makes doing a bunch of quick edits with the number pad a painfull task.

I'm also curious about library load times...over time (days, weeks, months)  the library takes longer and longer to load. Why is this? What can be done to fix this without having to throw out the prefs/UI files?

I do click on the number behind the dial and it works fine (entering values is the main way to pose stuff for me too).

As for the library taking more and more time to load, this is definitely not normal. Mine is still as fast as the first day (and I bought PP2014 on release). What mine does though since half a year, and didn't do in the beginning, is "forget" parts of my runtime during a work session (folders or folder groups) and having to take a couple seconds to refresh itself and display the thumbnails. Happens when changing from Characters to Poses for instance. It's a minor annoyance. As for your library problem, I think you should run a check of your hard drive ASAP, and if it hasn't any problems contact SM support, for obviously something is slowly failing, and one can only hope the final stage doesn't imply having lost your whole runtime!

Pretty sure I remember that correctly.  The option is shown in the attached image.  Un-check the box.  Maybe that will help.  :unsure:

Strange, I do have them reopen, and my library loads rather fast nevertheless...

How many threads do they say they're using when browsing through content on your computers? Mine uses 4 threads (a hardcoded limitation I guess, for it could use much more), and takes about 20-30 seconds to parse a 150 GB runtime.