Well it's about time, only 8 months over due for 9. Was told fixes to 8.5 would be in 9. But lets forget that, spilled milk and all, and concentrated on the fixed list.

"What is new in this version?

The 8.5.1.12 version implements support for PostgresSQL and includes some bug fixes. We are well aware that we have not resolved all issues.

Public BETA 8.5.1.12 improvements are:
1) PostgresSQL CMS - Added support for the PostgresSQL implementation of the Content Management Service (CMS).  Valentina will still operate, but PostgresSQL is the preferred solution.  Both can be installed on your machine at the same time, but only one will be used.
2) Smart Content Speed Improvements - The Smart Content Browser has been optimized for both PostgresSQL and Valentina.  PostgresSQL is generally the faster of the two and is on par with the performance of DAZ Studio’s Smart Content pane.  This resolves one of the known issues for Carrara 8.5
3) Fixed #CAR-70 - Fixed a vertex modeler lathe bug; segments were always 12 regardless of user input.
4) Fixed #CAR-81 - Fixed a ring light collision crash
5) Fixed #CAR-104 - Fixed an issue with normals being flipped on objects that are duplicated with symmetry on export
6) Fixed #CAR-108 - Fixed an issue where using a sky crashed the application on exit
7) Fixed #CAR-109 - Fixed an issue with the night sky setting not being remembered
8) Fixed - Fixed an issue where Save As does not remember the path when saving non .car files."

**
**

1. I don't use CMS. One of my biggest gripes about C8.5 was DAZ shoving CMS down my throat to use autofit. If this forced feature isn't removed so it is a choice of the user it is not FIXED.

2. I don't use smart content. Seriously less then a quarter of my content is from DAZ.

3. I don't model in carrara.

4. never had this happen.

5. see 3.

6. never had it happen.

7. never had the problem.

8. never had this issue.

So for me the beta fixes nothing. My issues have always been the way C8.5; that was build for the next gen figure compatibility, isn't. Seems the biggest fixes that need to be made, the one's that would make DAZ the most profit, aren't happening. No fixes to any of the issues with the new features in C8.5, so what is the point?

And as much as I would like to check the beta to see what they may have fixed that isn't listed, I can't. Apparently DAZ is trying to shove DIM down my thoat like they did CMS.

"If you have previously purchased the Carrara 8.5 Pro or Carrara 8.5 product, launch Install Manager, log into your account and type “Carrara * Public Build” into the filter field to filter out anything else.  Then simply download and install as you would normally."

"This BETA version is not available as a standalone installer.  It must be downloaded and installed using Install Manager.  This does not impact the General Release, which will be made available through Install Manager as well as a standalone installer."

Why does DAZ do this? Offer me a cookie then slap my hand.

Could some one tell chickenman that is a train, and tell DAZ I wont be one of it's locked in customers; DIM, CMS. Sorry I have seen more then one post by some one that didn't buy content any place but DAZ because they didn't know how to install content with out DIM or find it with out CMS. So I'll have to congratulate DAZ on that one, it worked. Nothing like having captive customers.

And I would like to nominate this as understatement of the year "We are well aware that we have not resolved all issues". That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the issues with C8.5.

We should thank Daz for this 'Non-Event Of The Year'.

This announcement proves only that the Carrara dev team is so under-staffed that for minor changes/fixes/improvements they need a public beta to make sure they got it right.

Now back to our regular programming.

I wouldn't call it a nonevent, it's something good when DAZ pays any attention to us carraraests, or does anything with carrara. But is as typical with DAZ the issues they are addressing are not the issues most carraraest have with C8.5; those few of us that actually bought and use it. I don't see any of the most common issues with C8.5 addressed, I don't see any fixes to content compatibility; which was what C8.5 was all about. What I do see is DAZ; yet again, trying to shove their captive customer system down my throat.

You can use DIM to install the C8.5 beta without having to use it for anything else - DIM is passive, it doesn't do anything you don't tell it to do (when you run it and log in it gets your account details so that it can show what is available, then it downloads the items you tell it to and installant the items you tell it to; that's it).

Yes, I know, but it doesn't make it any less of a crutch that some have gotten far too dependent on; which in my opinion was the reason for it to begin with, and why DAZ is trying to shove it down our throats, much as they did with CMS. Autofit works just fine in studio with out CMS, so why did DAZ make it manditory for C8.5?

I may install it to get the beta; which I really don't think is right at all, but if I uninstall it what stops working? I didn't install CMS; mostly because I have absolutely no use for it, so autofit in C8.5 doesn't work. Is uninstalling DIM after installing the beta going to break the beta? Will autofit work in C8.5.1 with out CMS?

Sorry, you know I don't see DIM or CMS as any less then shackles and chairs to DAZ's content. 2 apps I have absolutely no use for, yet DAZ is constantly trying to force me to use them. This; in my opinion, is just another round of DAZ trying to force me to use something I don't want or have need of.

And i absolutely refused to be chained to DAZ by them.

But the question still remains, is DAZ going to fix everything it broke in C8.5? None of those fixes address any of the issues I am having with the new content C8.5 was built to be compatible with.

I'll make a deal with DAZ, if DAZ fixes the issues C8.5 is having with new content, G2F/M, poses, characters, and the necessity of having to have CMS installed to use autofit, I will buy back all the pose and character sets I got refunds on because they didn't work in carrara. I'm not shopping at DAZ because none of the new content for G2 work in carrara.

If DAZ wants to fix the issues in C8.5 they need to fix the ones that prevent us from being customers for the latest generation of figures; which includes nonDAZ figures like Dawn. After all that was what C8.5 was all about. That is what many bought C8.5 for. Here it is going on 3 years and C8.5 still can't do; well half arsed, what it was built for.

I do not find a sad few fixes in the modeling room something to celebrate; DAZ actually doing something, maybe. But it would be more for DAZ having done something, then what they have done.

Have you seen the latest issue I have found? http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2886295

Riiiiight. !@#$%^&*()_+|

Ok, at this point I am far too hacked off to be posting. Needless to say DIM is an accurate description.

Oh my FnG, all that did was reinstall yet another copy of .243, not the beta. Typical DAZ BS. Screw this I have better things to do with my time. Uninstalling the second copy of C8.5 pro build 243. and DIM.

Edit, my bad, didn't install anything, just put another C8.5 short cut on my desktop. This crap is just too damned typical of DAZ.

By default betas aren't shown in DIM - you have to click the Download Filters button and enable them. They have a (green?) coloured flash saying Public Beta.

Actually you have to check "public build" to get the beta. I was trying to download from my products page, ya it started DIM and that was it.

But it is still a Rube Goldberg app. Making something as simple as downloading and installing, a multistage procedure using a helper app which balks with regularity. I can download and install while DIM is still queuing. So it just makes something simple, complex and take twice as long to do. Rube Goldbergian by definition.

It also puts newbies off shopping at other sites that don't use it; which is all of them, but then that was the main purpose of it after all.

LOL and it; the carrara beta, immediately crashed on opening. Yup, 3 trys, the beta wont even open. And people wonder why I have no faith in DAZ. Just look who runs the QA, easily explains why C8.5 was released in the sad shape it is in.

Sorry I don't have enough time in my day for this typical DAZ crap; and I'm unemployed.

DUDU_00001 you just been real sarcastic, I'm sure.

I have better things to do with my time then be DAZ's 1 public beta tester. And considering who's running it, there is no reason for me to file a bug report.

Oops, sorry Richard, all worked up about this. I do appreciate the help.

And you know what is really sad? No, not the beta insta crashing, I expect that from DAZ. No one is excited about the beta; well except for the usual suspect waving his pompoms lol

Ok, just as I thought, the beta requires you to run CMS.

Man, the saddest part of this is the complete lack of enthusiasm from carraraests.

Maybe its not lack of enthusiam. Maybe its CAUTION. There are probably many users who will wait for a non beta release. 

There were some positive responses over on the Daz forum though, so it there will be a few people who do decide to give it a try at this stage.

If they had they would have found out very little has been fixed. Certainly nothing has been fixed that puts carraraests off using Genesis or G2F.

But having to have a beta to check half a dozen fixes to issues in the modeling room is more deserved of a golf clap then any real excitement. Other then a stunned "DAZ is working on carrara"

I'm just curious as to why, if DAZ is in business to sell content, they didn't address the issues with using the new dollies and their content in C8.5; which, after all, is what C8.5 was all about. It's like fixing the hinge on the barn door while the barn is burning.

I've gotten to where I use Genesis and G2F almost exclusively because I think the are better looking then mil4, especially posing. Even though they are a PITA to use in carrara. With the issues in C8.5 presetting characters in Studio is a must that really shouldn't be. I quite shopping at DAZ because most all the new poses and characters for genesis and G2F/M error out in carrara. If it doesn't work in carrara I'm not buying it. And I am sure I'm not the only carraraest DAZ is losing money on because of the incompatibility with the new generation of figures in the build of carrara that was supposed to be compatible with them.

Come on DAZ, fix the issues with C8.5 that prevent us from using C8.5 for what it was built for.

And for got sake take the CMS dependency out of C8.5. I certainly am not the only carraraest that doesn't have it installed. Using it should be a choice, not an absolute must for features to work.

Maybe it's time to try; yet again, to get DAZ to give us the carrara we want, not some lame half arsed build they seem to think we should pay for, that does little more then add more broken features. If DAZ hadn't borked C8.5 so badly I wouldn't be forced to use Studio to stage characters.

I was done with the beta in an hour. I ran it through the issues I have with content and none of them have been fixed. And there is no reason for me to file bug reports, my name might as well be "ignore this report".

But this is SOP for DAZ, they drop the ball so often you have to wonder if their hands are greased.

Oh crap. just realized this is nothing but updating carrara to work with DAZ's new version of CMS. PostgresSQL CMS

My bad, thought DAZ might be doing something to benefit us carraraests, like actually fixing carrara.

Bets this is the only update we see?

quote: Oh my FnG, all that did was reinstall yet another copy of .243, not the beta. Typical DAZ BS. Screw this I have better things to do with my time. Uninstalling the second copy of C8.5 pro build 243. and DIM.

hi manstan what does 'FnG" stand for?

Oh that was an aggravating time.

It's a self censorship. My speaking language can be quite colorful, and why I stay off the headset in a game

In the end it wasn't worth getting worked up about.

BrianP21361 http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/48629/P15/  You have to run the new CMS for the beta to work.

Man I want to be back on the DAZ carrara forum for this, but there is no way in hell I'm biting my tongue for DAZ's sake. I'd most surly say just what I have said here, then the post would get pulled and I'd be banned yet again. Do the carraraests on the DAZ forum know about the updated forums here, where we can speak freely about the facts?

I'd love to see DAZ_BHowell on here where he can read the facts, truths, and opinions of us carraraests with out the over the top DAZ forum mod censorship.

I feel for people having issues with this; reading the DAZ forum sticky. Once I found the right boxes to check on DIM I had no issues.

But people, please, don't waste a lot of time on this, it's just an update to C8.5 to use DAZ's new PostgresSQL CMS , period. Yes there are a few of fixes to issues in the modeling room, but none for any of the issues introed in C8.5.

Tim_A, no UI means it's the render node not the actual C8.5 beta.

PostgreSQL is not faster than Valentina DB. Valentina DB is blazingly fast. It beats me why DAZ is using the server version of Valentina either.

Found out today I can't cloth genesis in carrara now, all clothes errors out. Keeps telling me it can find the DSF for the clothes, well of coarse, it's a DUF. Not at all sure why C8.5 would be looking for a DSF.

The files in the Data folder are .dsf, it's the user-facing files that are .duf. So probably it isn't finding the folder in Data that has the assets for the items you are trying to load.

After I cracked open and checking some files I figured that out. Not sure why C8.5 just started this, these are clothes that loaded to C8.5 previous to installing DIM/CMS to install the beta. A simple resave with Studio fixes it.

I'm getting quite annoyed about how much I have to use Studio to use content in carrara, almost like that's the plan.

Well this has went past annoying. I get this same error for every single article of clothing in my Studio library. These clothes worked till I installed DIM/CMS to download/install, and have a working beta.

Reinstalling the content wont fix it, I have to open each article of clothing in Studio then resave it in order for it to work in carrara. So installing DIM and CMS has totally screwed my Studio content folder. I will never, NEVER instal ether again.

Please report it - it's quite possible that it's related to your system, especially as you didn't previously have the metadata, but it should be logged.

Richard, as much as I would love to oblige; my friends always ask me for help because they know I wont say no, if spooky is still running that dept there is no reason for me to file a bug report.

It's gotten to the point I don't get excited about DAZ updates so much as I cringe in fear of what installing it will brake.

Be nice if some one would let the DAZ_s know there are people not on the DAZ forums with issues that need addressing. Seems the only issues I see being discussed are the issues installing the new beta and issues with DIM.

At the risk of cruelty to expired equines, forum access isn't needed to make bug reports

LOL It's not forum access, it's whom is running the bug reports dept. If it's spooky there is no reason for me to post a bug report, there has been a great deal of animosity between us for years. ;) So my name on a bug report might as well be "ignore this report".

Still there is no way to actual discuss issues with carrara on the DAZ forum, complaints about issues are immediately removed. It has gotten to the point that carrara is DAZ's big hairy arsed secret. DAZ doesn't advertise it, is quite apparently never going to fix C8.5, and anyone coming on to the DAZ forum asking about it isn't going to get half the story. They are just going to be left hanging while they trip over the issues.

Try this. If I haddn't started a thread about the beta here there wouldn't be one. Look at the other carrara forums, no mention of it even on the carraracafe; other then the news announcement, or carrarators. An update to C8.5 should have been a bang, not a whimper. But considering what little it actually fixed and how much just installing it broke, I can see why most carraraests have blown it off. 

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I'm afraid to try the beta versions anymore. I've had enough trouble to deal with on final releases on Mac since v8, and with no feedback on bug reports, it feels pointless filing issues that may not be relevant to anyone but me. I might have better luck had I not many years of stuff installed under older folder systems and from several previous versions of Carrara, but I do. I may have simply run into an immoveable wall, of frustration or obsolescence or both.

I've always enjoyed betas. But this is more of a crash test

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/48629/P105/

Up to page 8 and no one has talked about the beta at all, just the issues installing it. That is very telling and I wonder if anyone realizes it?

hmm, got about 4 paragraphs in and wonder "what's the point, nothing will change". And deleted it.

Sounds like folks are having loads of fun over there. :)

Fact:

It didn't address any of the issues introed in 8.5.

Anecdotal observation:

It did something to my Studio library so no clothes for ether genesis or G2F/M will load to carrara now.

Opinion:

Just what I would expect from DAZ. Broke 5X as much as it fixed. DAZ doesn't need a cynical critic like me, they are their own worst enemy.

I have always avoided Daz betas (and full releases until they've worked the bugs out). 

It always seems they break more than they fix. Pretty incredible when you think about it.

Man, I'm not sure what installing that did, I have since uninstalled it; and CMS and DIM, but I am having on going, worsening issues with C8.5. Everything from carrara crashing while I'm not doing anything; just open with a scene loaded, to hot points randomly changing, and primitives randomly spawning; I'll drop one in then while working with it have others spawn.  I'm not sure what to do but uninstall everything DAZ, do a thorough clean out then reinstall. This might also fix carrara no longer being able to load anything from the Studio library folder; except the scenes and scene subset folders.

This is the sort of thing that puts me off the new DA$ entirely. Seems the only thing the new DA$ is good at is selling PA content and screwing up apps.

Nope reinstall didn't fix the issue, carrara is still looking for nonexistent DSF files.

The 50s diner waitress has no DSFs, it's all DUF. I get this with piratically all DAZ clothes now; that worked fine before this beta debacle. I'm not sure what installing this new CMS did, and no clue how to fix it. I was going to reinstall all my content in the Studio library folder but that doesn't fix it ether.

I have folders full of free clothes for genesis and G2 that work better then any I have bought from DAZ.

The files in the Data folder, which have the geometry and rigging and morphs, are in .dsf format - the .duf files are the user-facing files you see in the content panes. For some reason, either a bug or the way you have the content installed or the way you have your content directories set in C8.5 beta, the Data folder is not being found and so you have the same result as your would with a cr2 that couldn't find its OBJ file.

Thanks Richard you pointed me in the right direction to find this

ß>|{ûöðíá·ï—¿ÿË_~þõw¿üÇ¿ü©_ý¯ÿòw÷Û_þy þáŸÿëïÿáÿ·ßÿå×?þç?üŸþÓ?ÿõ¿þÃûÃ_þ·§‡ÿã—ÿøï_?þw?þîééùóãÛ?

Will load to carrara.

        "id" : "/data/Ravenhair/50sWaitress/50sWApron/50sWApronB.dsf",
        "type" : "figure",
Wont load.

I'll do some further checking to confirm this... Yup, that seems to be the difference. 

This loads

I²„‚ÐïÞßZ¾w¤Û>@—U(‡_Ìí²l™ùŽÿóŸ~óß~úóÿüï?þò·Ÿ~þë¿ýÏ¿ýáåÛóÛË·—~çÿð·¿ýø÷þé¯ú9ÿôþÓo~óÃOì¨úãþþ‡úïù—?ÿø§üÛŸÿãŸþË/ø·

This wont

"id" : "/data/Ravenhair/GenesisMFD/GenMFD/GenMFD.dsf",
        "type" : "figure",

Looking at that I have to wonder how carrara is expected to find something with an incomplete address? Which might explain why resaving fixes it.

And yes, I will point a finger squarely at QA for not testing in carrara.

A relative path should work (I assume the gibberish is absolute paths that the forum won't display). Otherwise content couldn't be used on different machines with different install locations. My interpretation of what you are seeing would be that it isn't able to correctly locate the parent folder for the Data folder, for one of the reasons in my previous post.

No that is actually what I see when I open the data file. And I'm sure I pointed out quite a while back the reason carrara couldn't open textures from my library folder was because the address wasn't a full address as in not readable from out side the library folder.

So yes, you are quite right. And DAZ has done what to fix this? Oh, that's right, nothing.

The folks at DAZ do relize that for carrara to be DAZ content compatible it has to actually be able to read the address? Way to go DAZ.

And you wonder why I have issues with spooky and DAZ's QA. If DAZ content is supposed to be compatible with carrara don't you think some one should actually test that it is?

Is it funny or not that independent content creators can make Studio content that is more compatible with carrara then DAZ?

I'm not laughing.

Well, the gibberish will just be that you saved the file compressed then - that is the default option. You can turn compression off when saving, or use the Batch Convert pane in DS to uncompress, or you can use an archive tool to uncompress - 7Zip works for me. As I said, paths should be incomplete - giving only the location inside the content directory, just as Poser does (:Runtime:Geometries:DAZPeople:blMilWomV4.obj or whatever) and for the same reason - portability. So the question is why does Carrara fail when DS doesn't, and what changes when you resave?

That is a good question because I have compared files side by side and don't see a difference.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/48629/

So this beta fixed one problem for one person, yet caused a lot of issues for a lot of people trying it. Could this be any more typical of DAZ development?

Here's a thought, what about fixing all the issues with genesis/G2 compatibility that C8.5 has, you know, the reason for C8.5. C8.5 was all about genesis compatibility; well DUF anyway, it failed miserably yet DAZ didn't see fit to address any of those issues? To typical of DAZ.

And remove autofits dependency on CMS. That would be a boon for me and almost convince me DAZ might almost be listening to us.

But what do you expect when you put a carrara hater in charge of carrara.

This beta (8.5.1.12) is now labelled in the DAZ forums as "Release Candidate." Just FYI.

de•spond•ent

(dɪˈspɒn dənt)

*adj.*feeling or showing profound hopelessness, dejection, discouragement, or gloom.