All I can say this is "Impressive!

I want it and how much is this going to cost us?

@biscuits : The duration of pure calculation for this cloth is less than 8 minutes on my machine.
When I say that the simulation is complex, this does not mean that I perform many operations, it simply means that I had to do a lot of tests to get the right settings of the program for this dress.  The simulation, once the parameters are known, requires less than 10 mouse clicks. I think I now have the correct settings for this dress, I might even redo the walking animations that should be slightly more flexible.

@ EportsCreations : It is true that I have never addressed the problem of the price. I know my product allows to make simulations with greater fluidity than the others. There is a reason for this, I have used and even wrote simulation softwares. Their goal is to get an outcome that is consistent with the physics, this goal is not the visualization. The eye (and brain) does not forgive any mistakes. For viewing, it is necessary to leave a little the Physics and concentrate on to visualization. I am often disappointed by hair and cloth animations in short videos and even in movies but I want my program could be used by a large number of users. I thought I'll put the price of my program to 50 Euros, about 57 dollars.

Tell me your opinion about this information.

Tomorrow, I will do a simulation showing the simulation speed of a free dynamic cloth so you can compare with another simulator.

I will make one or two others simulations showing others functionalities.

I use dynamics 60 - 70% of the time in my work. And of course, I prefer it over conforming clothing. But as a fact, both have its limits in Poser. But what I have seen so far, in regards to your program. Is you have taken those limits and removed them altogether. And even enhanced it. As I said before, "I'm impressed! And I would be happy to give give you 57 dollars for the program.

I'm excited to see more and to get my hands on it! 

@VirtualWorldDynamics

Thank you for your reply!

Makes sense, in the clothroom I'm used to experiment to get the best results.

 Looks excellent, and that's an excellent price you're considering too (which I also would be happy to pay).  I'm hoping I can use this with Poser and then export to Carrara to assemble and render the final scene.  Really good work, and very glad this is something that will be brought to market.

In fact, it looks so good, that I can't help wondering what keeps you from going to market sooner?  Nevertheless, whenever it comes out, I'll be looking for it and will be a happy customer.  :) 

Yes, the price seems pretty reasonable to me as well

I am looking forward to try it out

@jonstark : I suppose that Carrara have a vertices animation plugin. I don't know its format. Currently, I can export the vertices animations in .PC2 format which is the 3D Studio Max format even for the Character animations. Perhaps, Carrara can read .PC2 format. If not, I could export the animations in its own format, It's just necessary for me to know how to structure the files.

I have publish 2 videos:

The first one is an earrings simulation. This kind of simulation works very well even for fast animations. There is nevertheless a small problem: very thin objects can bend a little because VWD only works now with soft bodies. It is necessary to rigidify this kind of objects. I will certainly include rigid bodies collisions in the next releases.

The second one shows the simulation speed for a dynamic cloth. I thank very much SVDL for this cloth which gives very good results. This cloth was made for Victoria3 but it can work fine with Victoria4 with a precise positionning even if there are some penetrations at the start of the simulation. This simulation has been made simuling a quad core processor (8 threads in the program). Its speed is not real time but the simulation speed permit to estimate the result during this simulation.

I wait for your replies with impatience.

I think the simulation time is pretty good. It looks like it is simulating much faster as the cloth room (probably because it is multithreaded)

So the general procedure is that you set up the animation in Poser. If you have dynamic clothing you start from the zero pose and with conforming it does not matter. Then you enter your sim program, define what is cloth and figure, specify which parts of the figure and cloth need to be dynamic by selecting the vertices and then you run the sim. After that you export the sim and it will be available in poser as a clothing sim (through dyn files)

So a few questions pop up now.

Can you have multiple sims? (more than one figure with cloth and hair)

Is there an equivalent of "choreographed" regions - so you can perform something like lifting a dress?

Does it read the morphs as well during simulation? (opening a shirt with existing morphs)

Is the resulting simmed version of the figures and props still standard poser figures and props?

@Morkonan : Excuse me, i didn't answer to your question, No I don't use the wind generator in Poser: I never use it and I don' know what are its capabilities. By against, I have my own wind generator, It can be use or modify during the simulation. For now, I only has a strength, a random strength based on vertices and 3 directions values. I want to include a squall system based on the time.

Thank you very much for this followup reply!

A question: Given the capabilities of this stand-alone simulation and your general knowledge, could this engine be used to better simulate hair models and to "create" them? As you know, realistic hair is very difficult to do in any 3D render and, with Poser, it's... absurdly difficult. Certainly, it's very difficult to do with Poser's somewhat antiquated hair tools and polygon hair, while very lightweight, is not realistic. (The skill of those who create polygon hair and especially their texturing, transmap and materials skills can offset some of this problem.)

Working with Poser's strand hair is next to impossible. Outside of Poser, I think it's practically impossible to manipulate or work with it. (I don't think it's accessible.) That's actually good, in some respects, since it's terrible to begin with. BUT, you have what appears to be a fairly decent physicality simulator that interfaces with Poser. Would it be possible, perhaps in a future version, to include some sort of "hair generator" that had access to the simulation, for appropriate hair draping, styling, that would yield some sort of model that could then be imported into Poser to serve as a somewhat more realistic hair model than what Poser has currently?

Poser does a good job with organic rendering and materials. But, in regards to hair models and rendering, it's just... very bad. Any avenue that possibly leads to Poser having increased abilities in regards to helping to create more realistic hair models is an avenue that I want to walk down! :)

PS - Thanks for what you're doing! This product looks like it could be very successful and could open up some more powerful options for Poser users!

@VirtualWorldDynamics

** The new videos look very good!**

** The ridgid problem in earrings can maybe also be avoided by making the mesh less dense, so there is no room for bending, but that offcourse limits the earring design.**

**
**

** I send you a sitemail, with one of my heaviest hairmodels I did, very curious if such heavy transmapped strandbased hair is possible with your software!**

@Wimvdb : The simulation program is faster than Poser, but the reason is not only multithreading, there are other original functions that optimize the computation.
I think that the improvement does not stop at speed, the simulations are much more fluid; it is the main purpose.
To answer your questions:

• Yes, it is possible to hang a piece of a dress part to a collision object part (some vertices). A hand that lifts a portion of a coat. The cloth follows the hand for a number of frames (all these actions are done during the simulation).
• No, the morphs are not accessible during the simulation. These are more the simulation parameters that will affect the cloth. The above answer concerning the interactions between vertices can also answer this kind of need.
• Animated objects by the program become simple objects (OBJ file) driven by the .dyn file. These are not the characters.

@Morkonan : When I started writing the program, there has just six months, I did not thought to animate hair.
I did some tests and I've realized that the outcome could be quite correct. Then, by improving the settings, I realized that it was essential to work to this animation of hair. Personally, I find the result rather satisfying.
There are some years I had worked on the hair mesh generation using lines with a cross mesh generation that keeps the feeling of volume regardless of the viewing angle. It is also possible to think of a mesh volume generation as "Melite hair" where the strands are created as volume meshes.
One can think of a wired generation system using some dynamics and then convert the hair as mesh. We can think about it if you wish.

@Biscuits : Thank you, i will download all files, but I cannot test this evening. I have a great work to do for my job. I will test on Wednesday. Sorry!

I am really glad to see that thread starts to think about the future.
For now, it is really necessary that I focus on the demo version that is not yet completed.

Thank you all.

I find this really amazing. I use marvelous designer to make dynamic clothes and I think it has the same simulation speed. I have some questions : does your simulation parameters also have one for "elastic" setting?, that would be really great. and are there different simulation settings for seperate dynamic groups?

best regards,

Bopper.

@Wimvdb : I didn't reply to your question "Can you have multiple sims? (more than one figure with cloth and hair)". No, I consider VWD as an additional function of Poser. It opens and closes like the cloth simulator that does a simulation at a time. However, I have implemented a system that can save the settings of a cloth or hair. It could be envisaged to provide several chained simulations that could run without intervention.

@Bopperthijs : Marvelous Designer is a great program. I have no intention of trying to compete with him. His simulations are fast and have very good qualities. In simulation garment, the elastics are springs on which we decrease the reference distance. I wrote a tool that worked according to this principle for plating objects. You are right to say that this system would be really helpful in the program. I will think about how to implement the interface.

@Biscuits : I fought with your hair ;-)), there are more than 300,000 vertices. I think I found a way to simulate your hair. Tomorrow, I will publish a video showing the result. I arrived a little to the limit of the program. I think you'll be satisfied.

Tomorrow, I will publish a video that shows a pose of a character using conforming cloth and hair. With this video I want to show what has been the starting point of my development. I also want to show that Poser is perhaps primarily a poses tool and to show what may be the interest of VWD for generating realistic poses.

Thanks for the information on multiple simulations. If the settings can be saved and another sim can be started for another figure, that would be fine for me

Thanks

I have published two new videos:
The first one is made with a dress and hair created by Biscuits.
The second shows a pose created by Hamemeon. The interest is to show that VWD is able to apply clothes and hair on a complex pose and allows to give the realistic side that it was not possible to achieve using only Poser tools.

@Biscuits : Tell me what you think about the animation with your creations. Personally, I find that the animation of the dress is good, but I was a little disappointed by the animation of hair. It's only at the viewing time that we can realize the end result quality. You may have noticed that a butterfly falls at the beginning of the animation, I could have approached it to the hair so that it hung on him, but I preferred not to make any changes from the original mesh. The simulation of hair lasts 45 minutes. It was necessary to reduce the snap distance for not having a memory problem.

@VirtualWorldDynamics

I am AMAZED Butterfly worked!!!! And even more amazed it worked so well!

If this heavy hair holds (apart from one dead butterfly falling lol), it can take A LOT!

WOW!

You really have developed one kickass software!!!!

 Hello, VirtualWorldDynamics and Hello to everyone else - this is my first ever post at Renderosity.

 These cloth simulations are amazing and I hope to buy the software as soon as I can after it's release.

 I'm a Carrara user as well as using Poser 10 and have experimented a little with bringing cloth simulations from Poser to Carrara.

The process is as follows:  Run a simulation with the character going from pose to pose.

Run a free Python script called Dyn_To_Morphs.  I picked up this script a long time ago but don't remember where from!  The script exports the morphing cloth frame by frame, I believe.

Then save the scene as .pz3.

The pz3 scene can be opened in Carrara with the cloth animated.

 When I tried this process, I was only using a mesh I had made myself around the figure.  The script is for Dynamic Clothing. 

 I am hoping that this information may help in some way towards your wonderful simulations being used in Carrara. 

@Grimhilda : Thank you for this information. If I understand correctly, your plugin takes a .dyn file and converts it in Poser's Morphs. This solution can work for dynamic clothes and of course for conforming clothes using VWD. I think and you can confirm to me, that this plugin must generate a new .PZ3 file which could to be very important. I do not know if you tried with a big animation, but I think the .PZ3 file can become huge. The Interest of cache files such as Poser's .dyn files or 3D Studio Max's .PC2 files is their compactness because the information is stored in a binary format (12 bytes per vertex). As you know Carrara, would you find in the documentation or in the software if it is capable of reading a cache file. In this case, I can convert a .DYN file in this format.**
**

@bopperthijs : I am interested in your elastic problem. It is true that this system has real benefits. Today, I have implemented it in the program. It reduced by a percentage the reference length of the selected segments. The effect seems interesting.

@Biscuits : thank you for your comments. But sorry for the butterfly! It will be easy to correct this problem by moving objects at a distance closer than the generation one.

Currently, I work on the demonstration program. I thought I was ready for the end of this week, but I took a little late. I would like that all interested users tell me if it seemed to them essential that the help is completed at the time of release of the demo program. For me it is important because it is the only way to explain the operation of each button and each parameter in the interface. Please, tell me what you think knowing that documentation is not very quick to do.

Thanks for your reply, VirtualWorldDynamics.

I took a look at the types of files that Carrara can open and neither .dyn nor .PC2 are in the list.

I also looked at the process of using the python script so that I could remind myself of how it is used (I'm a fairly inexperienced Poser user).

In Poser, I go to 'File / run Python script...'  The script is on my Desktop.

After it runs and I save the scene, I have a .pz3 file and a .pmd file both with the same name (I don't really know what these mean!!)

When I open the .pz3 file in Carrara, The figure, with clothing appears and all the animation data is on the timeline, ready to render.  In my experiments, I used the Roxie figure and had problems with the fit of the clothes - as though morph adjustments to the figure were lost and the figure had gone back to its original state.  (Roxie isn't really compatible with Carrara, I believe).

I'm sure I was correct in believing that the Dyn_To_Morphs python script was distributed freely (I never steal software) but it is marked as copyright. Here is an excerpt from the script, which I hope is OK to post:

Dyn_to_Morphs

This script will take the selected prop and convert a cloth simulation

into a series of morphs. It will then turn off the dynamics, and apply

these morphs in the correct frames. The resulting file can be used in

Carrara, or a similar application, to mimic dynamic cloth.

(c) Copyright 2005 by Dale Tacy - 2005-11-14

 
Here are links to my experiments in using the script:

FurtherPoserDynamic  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZIOpQ3DnNo

DynamicClothingPoserCarrara  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ3DCea_EKg

In carrara, it is possible to carry out soft body draping of cloth using Bullet Physics but animated figures pass through the clothing.  Here are some Carrara drapes:

DrapesInCarrara  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcQewwMXv78

To all:  As a Poser user as well as Carrara user, I hope I haven't interrupted the main topic too much.

Finally (!) I would be happy to wait for some help information to be prepared before using the trial. 

i would not mind trying the program with minimal help, but I think you will save a lot support issues of you have better documents ready.

Hello,
I apologize for not replying sooner.
I am confident that help is actually needed to use a software.
I started working on a basic help that explains the elements of the interface one by one. This help will be expanded regularly to show the most complex features.
I will do everything possible to upload the demo version and the help for the end of next week.

@Grimhilda: I think I will look at the different possible conversions to major 3D software in a second time and Carrara will be of course part of the list.

I would be happy with a basic step by step quickstart, just to get going on the demo.

And pictures say more then words and videotuts would be ideal for me personally.

I've gotten very positive comments on your videos using Floriza Fashion and Butterfly Hair.

Thank you so much for the time you put in them!

 Thanks for your reply, VirtualWorldDynamics.

 Naturally, I don't want to distract you from completing what you've begun so well!

Looking forward to trying out the demonstration but don't let our eagerness put you under excessive pressure!

Dyn_to_Morph is still available at Carrara Cafe. I'm pretty sure it would be OK to look at the script and see what it does if there was a way to help integrate your program with Carrara. It's pretty clear you have gone well past the need to 'cut and paste' someone elses code!

@VWD
I think the quality of those cloth simulations look absolutely first class, and even looks to be every bit as capable with earings and hair, wow!
I'll second what was pointed out though, I hope you don't understimate the need for good documentation.

But yup, can't fault the quality of those simulations, very impressive indeed!

@Grimhilda and @piersyf : I think that Dyn_to_Morph generates a .PZ3 file with embedded morphs in the file. The structure of PZ3 files is a particularly verbose text format. For animations with an important size, this file may reach one Go or more. I am convinced that Carrara has a cache file player that is perhaps in its own format. Once I have a moment, I will look if I find something.**
**

@pumeco : I know that documentation is an important part of a software. Today, I detailed the elements of an the interface one by one. Tomorrow I want to make some examples of simple simulations that will show the sequences of the actions. I know this first documentation will not be not complete; however, I would like it is enough precise so that anyone can get started right away.

@Biscuits : I am pleased that the animation with your products have good feedbacks.
I agree with you to say that a video is more formative than any paper document as long as it is. "A picture is worth a thousand words" I think it's a saying that one should find in all countries of the world.

I can make videos. For me, it is a fast and efficient work. My problem is that I can not do it in English. I know that the Google's subtitles work pretty well, but there still have errors. Given the lack of time to prepare something for the end of the week, do you think some presentation videos could be a useful in addition to my documentation.

Videos are always good. I like pictures, especially when they move!

Also, and I'm pretty sure you're doing this anyway... focus on the Beta testing for Poser first, worry about things like Carrara later. Would be good, but trying too much at once means it never gets finished.

I write just a quick message to say that the documentation is progressing well.

It will consist of two parts:

    - The First one will explain the different part of the interface.

    - The second one will study about ten simulations in detail.

The time to terminate such a documentation is not short. Currently, I wrote the first part and the first two simulations of the second part. I write already 25 pages in French for now. The translation will also take some time.

During the weekend, I will do the videos identical to paper helps to match the two help methods that users say to prefer.

I am pretty much speechless over what you've done here and I'm officially hooked. I have a couple of questions:

1. I see you're using conforming hair. Does this mean you can use this with conforming clothing as well.

2. I  know you can't tell us an exact release date but when do expect this to be released? A few weeks, couple of months or a year?

I'm bursting with excitement over what you've accomplished here.

Vestmann....VWD's first few videos were with conforming clothing. Isn't that great? :).

Laurie

Vestmann....VWD's first few videos were with conforming clothing. Isn't that great? :).

Laurie

That is fantastic! This means I can finally start using long conforming hair and dresses...?!  My laziness has prevented that so far ;)

@Vestmann : I am aware that I have never been accurate in my release dates.
I'll try to be more precise and to speak in terms of max limit.

I realize that provide accurate and quality documentation takes enough time especially with a translation.

I'll probably disappoint some people, but I give myself as the max date for the demo version, late July and for the final version in late August.
These dates will never be reached, I am sure, but I prefer to say that the demo version will be ready by the end of July  and distribute it at mid-July rather than say that I will distribute this version at mid-July and again request a week more.

In any case, I regularly give information on the progress of the project.

Once a video help will be made, I will put it on YouTube and I also try to do some rendering videos.

thank you for the update!

Any news? Amazing stuff.

@Vestmann : I am aware that I have never been accurate in my release dates.
I'll try to be more precise and to speak in terms of max limit.

I realize that provide accurate and quality documentation takes enough time especially with a translation.

I'll probably disappoint some people, but I give myself as the max date for the demo version, late July and for the final version in late August.
These dates will never be reached, I am sure, but I prefer to say that the demo version will be ready by the end of July  and distribute it at mid-July rather than say that I will distribute this version at mid-July and again request a week more.

In any case, I regularly give information on the progress of the project.

Once a video help will be made, I will put it on YouTube and I also try to do some rendering videos.

That sounds great. Thanks for the response.

I work in parallel on the program and the documentation.

I acknowledge that I ask a little patience, but I think it is necessary because without documentation, I should have had a very large number of questions.

To make you wait, I can make videos in areas that particularly interest you. I know the program, since I wrote it, but I am certain that I do not know all its possibilities and you will certainly discover new ones by using it. Initially, I did think not animate the earrings.

I would go to the program's limits. This limit has already been almost reached with the "Butterfly Hair" that graciously lent Biscuits whom I thank. These hair have more than 300,000 vertices which generate tens of millions of springs. When I speak of limits, I also mean in terms of animation speed limits, limits in terms of collisions and I do not know what else ...

If you have a particular idea of simulation, please say it, I will do my utmost to realize it or at least, to say what was my problem and consider how to improve it.

This looks absolutely amazing.  Both a user and long time creator and vendor of dynamic clothing, this plugin is a definite must when it comes out. :)  Is it possible to sign up somewhere for updates, or do I just follow this thread?

@Morkonan : When I started writing the program, there has just six months, I did not thought to animate hair.
I did some tests and I've realized that the outcome could be quite correct. Then, by improving the settings, I realized that it was essential to work to this animation of hair. Personally, I find the result rather satisfying.
There are some years I had worked on the hair mesh generation using lines with a cross mesh generation that keeps the feeling of volume regardless of the viewing angle. It is also possible to think of a mesh volume generation as "Melite hair" where the strands are created as volume meshes.
One can think of a wired generation system using some dynamics and then convert the hair as mesh. We can think about it if you wish.

There is an advantage in realism for cross-mesh hair and, if I understand your meaning correctly, a small bit of realism added for "volume mesh" hair. As I interpret your use of those words, you mean hair that is composed of closed mesh objects instead of single-sided planes. This is how some older hair models used in Poser worked. However, there are some limitations with that sort of hair, primarily with transmaps and materials, that make it very difficult to work with as standards for "realism" increase.

What Poser needs, desperately, is an entirely new "Hair System." As it stands, transmapped hair, overall, is still the best that Poser can do regarding "realistic hair." Poser is a program that specializes in organic modeling and its "hair system" is probably its least-used and most outdated feature. ANYTHING you can do to help provide users with options to increase the realism of hair models would be wildly appreciated! :)

I've tried several methods using various modeling techniques and materials to improve the appearance of hair. One of the most limiting problems with the most realistic choices for hair in Poser, transmapped polygon strand hair, is realistic posing and movement. It is very difficult to get such hair to pose realistically across many figure poses, especially if there are no extra bones included and the user must rely on morphs, alone. Also, most such hair created for Poser is unrealistically "poofy", with almost all hair models having far too much volume and distance from the scalp. They're hairs that couldn't be truly created without at least a few liters of hair spray and concrete...(Basically, most Poser hair models are not realistic at all and they're very difficult to make realistic, even when altering them in an external modeler or working with Poser's excellent material room. (Some fault can be laid at the feat of creators who sometimes don't have high-resolution transmaps, which are absolutely necessary for realism.)

As a user, my intended uses for your product, so far, would be:

1. Quick realistic draping for conformed clothing models

2. Realistic draping for transmapped poly-strand hair models (Which I am very excited about!)

I look forward to seeing your product released and you can count on my purchase!

Will there be a version for Mac OS X?

have to say, I'm seriously impressed.

@ShaaraMuse3D : Do not worry, the program will come. I am correcting the latest bugs.
I only use this thread for not having too many places to manage. I'm not very keen on sharing tools or social networks, but I treat myself. ;-)) I am well aware that they can be a huge dissemination.

@Nagra_00_ : I'm sorry, I don't have currently a way to write the program with tools which are compatible with Mac OS X. I could be able to compile for Mac but the visualization library that I use is not running on MAC for now.

@ Morkonan : I'm not an expert on hair in Poser, but I feel that there is a global need to find a realistic approach to creating, texturing, and positioning for virtual 3D hair. I would be very interested by your advice in your positioning and animation with VWD, I think the result is good enough. There remains the problem of creation. In this area, I would separate the generation that I guess by wire from the mesh generation that can be of different shapes.
I think that once again, the dynamics can be useful for the generation; by cons, the generation is a pure IT problem.
After launching the program, it might be worth to open a thread on this topic. What do you think?

From time to time it is good to relax by playing with ribbons for example. You can see the result on YouTube. Tell me what you think.
My wife does not like too bright colors. I agree that the colors are not very pretty, they are there only to show the absence of interpenetration. I could redo the video with textures if you wish. ;-))

This brought tears of joy to my eyes. Waiting patiently.

@NanetteTredoux : I know you create clothes and your message goes straight to my heart. I do not know if this expression is translated correctly in English. Thank you.

@everyone : I hope my English is not generating too many explanation errors. I often use the Google translator, which works quite well, but I sometimes feel like saying weird things and I'm not sure that my changes improve things. If any of my answers you seem weird or totally off topic, do not hesitate to tell me.

I have published two new videos:
    - The first one simulates a cotton dress with a certain rigidity.
    - The second uses by cons a maximum fluidity.
Both simulations are done with conforming clothes.

I'm still working on documentation. It remains for me to do 5 tutorials.
There will still remain the translation which is a big job.

More wonderful animations!

Remember to enjoy the summer as well as completing this.

This is your YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=QgIIAQ%253D%253D&q=VirtualWorldDynamics

I ask this because third party plugin developers for poser , or any Cg app, who do NOT have any Official support from the programs Maker are often blind sided by official"updates" that break the functionality of the third party plugins.

poser is not DAZ.

Weirdjuice 3D's MetaForm was broken when Poser changed python versions and never updated. 

Can't believe I am just now learning of this...  Absolutely amazing work!  I can't wait to see how this progresses.

My question is if this will work with or be able to provide soft body dynamics to the figure...  The clothing looks so natural, but if the model's body moved as well it would be perfect.

@ Morkonan : I'm not an expert on hair in Poser, but I feel that there is a global need to find a realistic approach to creating, texturing, and positioning for virtual 3D hair. I would be very interested by your advice in your positioning and animation with VWD, I think the result is good enough. There remains the problem of creation. In this area, I would separate the generation that I guess by wire from the mesh generation that can be of different shapes.
I think that once again, the dynamics can be useful for the generation; by cons, the generation is a pure IT problem.
After launching the program, it might be worth to open a thread on this topic. What do you think?

From time to time it is good to relax by playing with ribbons for example. You can see the result on YouTube. Tell me what you think.
My wife does not like too bright colors. I agree that the colors are not very pretty, they are there only to show the absence of interpenetration. I could redo the video with textures if you wish. ;-))

I think that any thread which continues technical discussions dealing with your product and dynamics working with Poser would be a very good thread! :) I took another look at your early videos, just to see what I could of how many variables can be used in your calculations. You've really covered a great deal! And, that simulations are highly customizable is an added bonus, providing many of the customizable settings in Poser's Cloth Room with your wonderful new engine.

However, of critical importance is longevity. As you noted concerning Weirdjuice's python-based dynamic fluid simulator, there is always the danger that a product made for Poser can be easily orphaned. Changing Python versions is just one of the issues.

There are things about Poser that are starting to be overshadowed by companion products. For instance, Reality4, with the upcoming speed-boosting patch, is likely going to be a Firefly rendering-engine "killer." Why render in Firefly if you can render using a physics based renderer that will render more accurately, more realistically, and, soon, in half the time to achieve even better quality than what Poser's native Firefly can do?

Your product, because of its sheer versatility and ability to handle multi-grouped objects with ease, even very complex ones, like polygon-based hair models, will likely outcompete Poser's native dynamics engine, overnight, based only on its speed, if nothing else.

There are others who have introduced products that move animation/object assets out of Poser's native interface in order to take advantage of new tech and new developments. For instance, DAZ3D's "Genesis" figures and .duf format is a format standard that is brought into Poser and competes with Poser's .cr2 file format. (Purposefully, and not very well, but it's still a competing standard produced by a third-party.)

What I'm getting at is this - There are two things to consider in terms of "longevity."

What dependencies must you absolutely rely upon and how can you secure them through any changes Smith Micro might reasonably make? Poser's .cr2 file structure isn't going anywhere, soon, and they'd probably make allowances for any format changes in order to accommodate legacy products. But, in order to give your product the best chance at along saleable lifetime, you may wish to consider ways to work with other formats. And, that also opens up the possibility that your product could be used... industry-wide, as a quick tool to provide visualizations, animation demonstrations, blocking-in movie shots, a whole gambit of possibilities... In other words, ensuring your product's longevity through Poser production cycles by structuring what sorts of data it can take and what file types it can work with could result in a very robust product with a much wider scope than just us. (Though, I eagerly look forward to being able to buy it for Poser content! :) )

The other thing to consider is constant third-party competition with Poser, both in the areas I mentioned by those producing add-on products for Poser and those producing directly competing products. Considering the performance of your product and its visual appeal and polish, I would suggest you may want to actually talk to Smith Micro regarding their dynamic engine and the possibility that they might wish to license a portion of yours for their own use. Poser has done that before and I wouldn't doubt they could do it again. You could, of course, retain full release rights for an engine, for instance, that worked with many other file types in the industry or one that was specifically targeted towards certain development pipelines. And, if Smith Micro doesn't wish to do that, there's always DAZ3D. They seem to retain the competitive "hunger" that many successful companies hold on to regardless of their market shares..

Flexibility is key and the ability to work with different data sets, even if you don't include that ability at first, can really be a value-added part of your product and could really expand its possibilities outside of just Poser.

markdc, a vendor here, has produced a number of outstanding products. I'll point to one of his as an example - Autogroup Editor. It's a very simple group editor for wavefront.obj files. However, it is not wholly dependent upon anything in Poser. It runs outside of it and, while it can accept .cr2 files, it can also accept any wavefront.obj file. In essence, you don't have to have Poser in order to make that product useful! Sure, you'd probably have access to 3D software that did all that for you, but I use it very often on just .obj files to set up groups quickly and easily. I never use it with .cr2 files.. I have no need to use it like that since I'm creating the .obj myself. But, instead of limiting his product to only .cr2 files, as some have done with other products, markdc allowed .obj files to be loaded as the template objects. Sure, it probably wasn't difficult to do, but the world is full of tragedies that could have been avoided if the participants had one just done one little thing that wasn't particularly difficult to do at the time. :)

I'm not saying to focus heavily, yet, on uses other than for Poser. But, I am saying that you should consider it, just to help give your product longevity and versatility. And, you never know where Smith Micro is going to go next. Right now, assets for game development are really high on their charts. That's great! And, you should be prepared to be able to move along that direction as well as others.

Again, great product, wonderful speed, good versatility already, from what I can see. I just don't ever want to see your product orphaned by a python switch. :)

Loving the new videos!

Waiting not so patiently! Lol

Soooo looking forward to try it!

@Morkonan : Thank you for your long message.
I've had problems with versions of Python and the famous magic number that is anything but magical.
The version of VWD is totally independent of the different versions of Python and the different version of Poser. Besides, the Python file that I provided is a .PY file and not a .PYC file which is not compiled really. The computational work has been written in a compiled language. It is this part that I am about to finish to protect.
Python functions I use in Poser are the import and export of .OBJ file, the generation of cache file using the functions that access to the geometry of the actors and the management of .DYN files used by the cloth simulator, that's all.
These functions exist since the beginning of the Python implemention in Poser and are not really removable unless to stop Python interface itself.
My tool does not care about the internal management in Poser. CR2 files, .PP2 files  or others do not interest me. Using the program, you will see a directory named "Exchange" that contains only .OBJ, .DYN and .VWD files which is an internal cache file format.

I chose Poser for two reasons:
   - I like Poser when I'm not attracted by Daz Studio. This is purely subjective.
   - My program needed characters, clothes and hair easily accessible and ready for use. Poser and Daz Studio are programs that meet these criteria.

My program could certainly be transferred to Daz Studio, but scripts opportunities are less powerful. I always refused to work in plugin generation because we become bound hand and foot to the master program. The scripts are not fast, but I ask them to create the interface with the host program. When I want speed, I write my own functions.
My program only requires a host program that can read and write OBJ files by script and possessing a cache file system that can be read and written by script. I'm sure many 3D programs meet these criteria.

You're right, I have not thought about the possible extensions of my program. I'm at a stage where I want many people use my program even at the demo stage to see if it corresponds to the current needs of those who wish to animate the clothes and hair. The extensions come themselves and I trust the creators to be particularly motor in this area. And that's good.

**
@Biscuits :** I have made a number of videos but they are all based on the same animations because I have only these ones. I know you are interested by animations of clothes and hair  being yourself creator. Do you know animations for V4 for free or paid that would allow me to test my program in more extreme conditions. (Fast movements or others).
I'm really glad you liked the new videos.

@moogal : For now, I do not intend to make a flexible body management for a character even if the subject interests me and although I started to think about it.
However, there is a subject on which I want to work quickly because VWD has a problem, he hates  the pinching. When a cloth is trapped between two parts of the body, it tends to escape by one side or other. I solved this problem by using the tool "OVERHAUL" by I13 which corrects many of these pinching.
I want to write a function that will run a small dynamic effect when the program imports the body to push the parts that come into interpenetration.
It is quite possible to watch the inertia generated by the movement of a character and transfers it in a mesh deformation.

@moogal : For now, I do not intend to make a flexible body management for a character even if the subject interests me and although I started to think about it.
However, there is a subject on which I want to work quickly because VWD has a problem, he hates  the pinching. When a cloth is trapped between two parts of the body, it tends to escape by one side or other. I solved this problem by using the tool "OVERHAUL" by I13 which corrects many of these pinching.
I want to write a function that will run a small dynamic effect when the program imports the body to push the parts that come into interpenetration.
It is quite possible to watch the inertia generated by the movement of a character and transfers it in a mesh deformation.

Interesting...  I was also wondering if the dynamic clothing could work with the existing Poser bullet physics.  This is the hair and clothing I have always wanted from Poser, but I hope there is a way to add realistic bounce and jiggle so the body doesn't look unnaturally rigid.