I've seen a lot of forum posts on whether we should go with Genesis 3 (Gen 3). People post images saying 'Yes'. More people post messages saying 'Wait and See'. Others just say 'No'. Who can best answer this question? Ultimately, you.

For me, Gen 3 seems to be geared for the ultra-realistic. She has a different weight mapping, a different texture mapping, and ghost bones so she can bend in a realistic manner. How close she walks on the edge of the uncanny valley is for a different post. She's new toy, but I'm not sure if I could afford her.

She's a pricey toy for being free. The basic necessary morphs like the expressions and other body morphs are broken up into three separate packs that retail for 20 dollars each. Then there is the Victoria 7 morph and other characters. She needs new hair and clothes. Of course, we cannot forget the poses. I could buy a utility that will transfer Genesis 2 morphs. My wallet shrinks even as I type this.

All the talk, rants, and complains on whether Gen 3 is worth it, reminded me of the reasons why I play with Genesis at all.

First, Genesis 1 had a lot of muscle morphs. Most of the muscle morphs came from the male characters (Michael, David, and the Freak). Gen 1 allowed me to play Dr. Frankenstein. I mixed female shapes with the male muscle morphs to create my She Hulk. But, DAZ couldn't allow that amount of creativity. Genesis 2 was split up between male and female figures. Alas, only the guys get the muscles.

My second reason overcomes that obstacle. Dimension3D made the Genesis Generation X (Gen X) plugin. That wonderful little tool allowed me to copy morphs from Vic 3 and Vic 4 to Gen 1 and 2. As I stated before, my favorite character is OutOfTouch's Milena for Vic 3. Because of Gen X, Gen 2 is a new toy with Milena's face. It also allowed me to copy morphs from Gen 2 Male to Gen 2 Female. She has muscles again.

The Genesis figures themselves were immaterial. The Gen X tool had the feature that makes it playtime. And, it is the only reason I purchased anything for Genesis. If someone made a tool to copy morphs and shapes from Vic 3 to Vic 4, I would buy it and be just as happy. My wallet would be happy too. It all comes down to: 'What Do You Want'.

For me, I’m not looking for an ultra-realistic figure, the perfect bend. I want to play and Gen 3 is not the toy for me. Shown below is my playtime.

What's your playtime?

Thanks for letting ramble.

Nothing wrong with rambling, it is a welcome change of pace around here.

Use whatever character you want too. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, you can use freebies and make the rest.

 Interesting, and I'll bet, a painful tattoo she has there...

That is a good and positive ramble, I would love to see more of such a positive attitude.

For me you highlight two good points, firstly that with a few select, well thought out tools, people can move on to the later figure tech and still use their favorite characters and their investment in 3D.  Secondly that for a lot of people here it is not a job, it is a hobby and it is meant to be fun.  

Enjoy your playtime, it does look fun.

" Dimension3D made the Genesis Generation X (Gen X) plugin. That wonderful little tool allowed me to copy morphs from Vic 3 and Vic 4 to Gen 1 and 2."

Just to let you know, you can transfer your genesis/genesis 2 characters to genesis 3 even manually and without any plugins. Even from V4 to G2F also, if you want you can transfer manually. However that genx plugin is pretty cool and saves time.

If you are interested you can check the daz studio forums here to see how you can do manually.

What's your playtime?

Nice to see someone have the guts to be honest about what many (most/a lot?) folks are using Poser and Daz for.  While I do some 3D at work, when I'm home playing on my computer with either poser or Daz I am just playing...a grownup playing with dolls.

She's a pricey toy for being free. The basic necessary morphs like the expressions and other body morphs are broken up into three separate packs that retail for 20 dollars each. Then there is the Victoria 7 morph and other characters. She needs new hair and clothes. Of course, we cannot forget the poses. I could buy a utility that will transfer Genesis 2 morphs. My wallet shrinks even as I type this.

G3F uses bones for expression so there are no expression morphs. Expression and in general poses require nothing more than a getting a plugin called "elbow grease". It is very versatile addon and it is program-agnostic too. I successfully use it every day. Highly recommended. G2 clothing and hair can move over directly, V4 and G1 items require to move first to G2 and then to G3. The previously mentionned "elbow grease" plugin works also for this part.

Freebies are quickly pouring in, see for example DsCreative July issue and ShareCG.

You can start by just getting the face morphs, everything else is strictly optional.

The woman here is BVH's Cynthia, released a few years ago. The base figure was free, but I bought her morphs, very inexpensively. The girls are K4, purchased characters (both bought on sale). I made the dresses, the woman's shoes, the lace cloths and the tea set. The room is made with the PICK room creator items that come included with Poser - my textures. The furniture is from Poser World, where I have had a lifetime licence for a few years now. This is a book illustration but I had great fun doing it, using content I had and making what I needed.

Keep in mind that if one is a little patient, virtually everything will come on sale for at least 50% off. :)

As far as Genesis goes, morphs and clothing can be exchanged between generations, albeit at the cost of having do the morph transfer and autofit in Studio, but they can then be loaded in Poser.

How-Tos here...

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/24093/#356145

Keep in mind that if one is a little patient, virtually everything will come on sale for at least 50% off. :)

As far as Genesis goes, morphs and clothing can be exchanged between generations, albeit at the cost of having do the morph transfer and autofit in Studio, but they can then be loaded in Poser.

How-Tos here...

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/24093/#356145

50% hell - EVERYTHING shows up at 72% off at some point.  Patience is the key.

what about the new Scarlet figure?

what about the new Scarlet figure?

I am going to put her through her paces this weekend.  I'll run some V4 content through the fitting room, to be followed by building some pose sets (not runway stuff, but normal poses.)
I haven't bought very much for her (the buried treasure sale is killing my CC.  I will have dropped $600+ by the time Week 5 ends - and I still have 100+ items on my Unavailable for Purchase wishlist).  I love the ability to upgrade any legacy figure in Poser Pro.

I am going to put her through her paces this weekend.  I'll run some V4 content through the fitting room, to be followed by building some pose sets (not runway stuff, but normal poses.)
I haven't bought very much for her (the buried treasure sale is killing my CC.  I will have dropped $600+ by the time Week 5 ends - and I still have 100+ items on my Unavailable for Purchase wishlist).  I love the ability to upgrade any legacy figure in Poser Pro.

I have been hitting the buried treasure sales hard. My CC is in about the same shape.

What's G3's polycount?

17,000

17,000

You're kidding, right? :) Or, is that meant to be combined in DS/Poser with sub-d or something? 17k seems a bit light for a high-resolution still/animation character. Is it game-content focused?

It is meant to be Sub-d just like Genesis (just under 18,000) and Genesis 2 (just under 22,000).  DAZ is  trying to reach new markets thus the switch to industry standard rigging and they have partner with Morph3D.

17k combines with SubD/HD morphs.

To my eyes, the final result looks acceptable. For DAZ forums, V7 + Iray.

Gorgeous render!

17,000

You're kidding, right? :) Or, is that meant to be combined in DS/Poser with sub-d or something? 17k seems a bit light for a high-resolution still/animation character. Is it game-content focused?

the polycount for world of warcraft characters are around 300 sony 4 call of duty characters polycount are around 3000

Horrible Render, it's a Vickie.

chaecuna cool render

I don't see a renderosity/google gallery of yours.do you have a gallery some where ? 

how much did that render cost to make ? 

ScareCrow if you made cool renders of Roxie like chaecuna's render you would win Roxie a lot of fans.

** **

** **

Yeah, imagine that.

To my eyes, the final result looks acceptable. For DAZ forums, V7 + Iray.

Very pretty. Like I said, Genesis 3 is geared toward the ultra realistic. If that is what you want, go for it and have fun. The ultra realistic does not interest me right now, maybe in the future. I am just going use the Sub Division and other stuff on my older figure and play that way.

chaecuna cool render

I don't see a renderosity/google gallery of yours.do you have a gallery some where ? 

how much did that render cost to make ? 

ScareCrow if you made cool renders of Roxie like chaecuna's render you would win Roxie a lot of fans.

** **

It is not mine, I reposted an image from DAZ forums. I am studying how to attain such gorgeous results. Pumeco, jesters place was to entertain the court during parties, not to interrupt serious meetings.

@chaecuna
Sorry, my bad, I though you were all drunk, and for what it's worth, the Vickie looks nowhere near real and no better than could have been achieved with the previous one, or the one before that etc.

• The shiny black band is low-poly, and gives the game away.
• The eyes look flat, and give the game away.
• The skin shading looks nothing like real skin, and gives the game away.
• The stray hairs around the hairline are too thick, and give the game away.
• The whisp of hair behind her ear is too repetitive between strands to look natural, and gives the game away.

I hope that was "serious" enough for you, and that you might learn something from it.
Feel free to pass it on to your friends on the DAZ forum, it might help to lessen their superiority complex for them.

LMFAO

is that a syphon attached in your wallets or yous just happy to see me 

Someone else's superiority complex? You just picked apart someone else's work for your own ends. If you want to show people up you need to do it with your own work rather than trashing someone else's art try to try and prove a point.

@Misty
lol

@Khory
I'm not trashing anyones art, I'm simply putting someone in touch with the real world.  I don't take kindly to being called a clown (Jester) by someone who's skills will never come close to my own.

@chaecuna
Sorry, my bad, I though you were all drunk, and for what it's worth, the Vickie looks nowhere near real and no better than could have been achieved with the previous one, or the one before that etc.

• The shiny black band is low-poly, and gives the game away.
• The eyes look flat, and give the game away.
• The skin shading looks nothing like real skin, and gives the game away.
• The stray hairs around the hairline are too thick, and give the game away.
• The whisp of hair behind her ear is too repetitive between strands to look natural, and gives the game away.

I hope that was "serious" enough for you, and that you might learn something from it.
Feel free to pass it on to your friends on the DAZ forum, it might help to lessen their superiority complex for them.

LMFAO

Well sorry, its my second render with iray and I'm still learning :)

Lol, not bad for a second render. I know people here who have done 100's and get nowhere near to that quality.:)

Mousso Wrote:
"Well sorry, its my second render with iray and I'm still learning :)"

It's a fantastic render, and a beautiful image in it's own right, no need to apologise.

You're not seriously telling me you thought my "Horrible Render, it's a Vickie!" comment to be genuine are you?
That was obviously a joke, though the criticisms I listed are all valid.

... you'll hate me for pointing them out, but you'll try not to make then again :-)

... you'll hate me for pointing them out, but you'll try not to make then again :-)

Nah I dont hate you :) I'm never going for realism, I like my fairies too much for that and I have a camera if I want photoreal. I'm just having fun rendering :)

... you'll hate me for pointing them out, but you'll try not to make then again :-)

Nah I dont hate you :) I'm never going for realism, I like my fairies too much for that and I have a camera if I want photoreal. I'm just having fun rendering :)

I wouldn't even go so far as to try to defend your work against what Pumeco just tried. I know the subject of this thread deals with playtime, but Pumeco, we've seen your attempts at rendering, and I'm not sure why you even tried to critique someone's work when you have to use black and white filters when you post your images so it hides the true work. Jade really should be a color, not an emotion. ;) (btw, this is a great image, don't let these kids fool you into thinking otherwise.)

Going back to lurk mode.

a link to pumeco's gallery.... enough said  http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=233697

@Male_M3dia
To be honest, the reason that Roxie render was B&W was due to her having Blue eyes, so only the Blue channel was used rendering her eyes lighter.

@Slosh
Ah man ... I really slipped-up!

@Mousso
It would be a shame if you didn't try for perfect photorealism.  The more you do it the more you'll realise how boring it can be, but the point is you should still go for it for the simple reason; you're obviously going to achieve it with your skills.  It should never come before art though, artistic licence and doing what's in your mind, and looking at your gallery just now, you're damn good at that.  Despite what Male_M3dia and Slosh think they've deduced about me, believe me when I tell you that one of the most important aspects of photorealism is feasability, not just the technical stuff like shaders etc.

You can have the most perfectly photoreal shaders on the best model ever, and the game will still be given away if what you render is not feasible.  For example, a huge steel truck with massive wheels on a sand dune and the tyres aren't feasibly sinking into the sand to represent it's weight.  Stuff like like that, cause if you leave just a single thing that's not feasible, all the rest of the skill and effort goes out of the window.

Anyway, I hope you didn't take my criticisms to heart other than them being to point out flaws in a critical fashion.  My post wasn't against you as an artist, or even the render you made, it was against this insane non-stop superiority complex thing that seems to crawl over here from the DAZ forums every bloody day.  Vicky is a mesh, Roxie is a mesh, they're both fully deformable via morps and fact is, Roxie is a much more efficiently designed mesh than V4, so this outrageous belief most of them seem to have that V4 is somehow superior, is just nonsense.

BTW, not that it matters now, but my first comment, the joke about it being a horrible render was actually a mistake.  I intended to post it, but I had more than one tab open and for some reason I thought I was still in Clarkie's V4 thread.  I wouldn't have posted it in this thread had I realised the thread I was in.  Sorry about that.

17,000

You're kidding, right? :) Or, is that meant to be combined in DS/Poser with sub-d or something? 17k seems a bit light for a high-resolution still/animation character. Is it game-content focused?

the polycount for world of warcraft characters are around 300 sony 4 call of duty characters polycount are around 3000

 

Those are game asset resolutions and they have to be much smaller meshes. That's a different animal than high-resolution 3D still or animation production. Even so, some games are using assets that are even denser than 17,000 polys for characters! Anytime you reduce the density of a 3D mesh, you reduce the artist's capabilities when creating something that uses that same mesh. Poser's current content market relies, almost completely, on a base mesh's ability to be morphed. Reduce the polycount and you reduce that capability - You can't move verts that aren't there. (Though, you can still use materials and such to produce certain sorts of deformations, but that's nothing near as powerful as being able to move just one vert where it's needed.)

17,000

You're kidding, right? :) Or, is that meant to be combined in DS/Poser with sub-d or something? 17k seems a bit light for a high-resolution still/animation character. Is it game-content focused?

the polycount for world of warcraft characters are around 300 sony 4 call of duty characters polycount are around 3000

 

Those are game asset resolutions and they have to be much smaller meshes. That's a different animal than high-resolution 3D still or animation production. Even so, some games are using assets that are even denser than 17,000 polys for characters! Anytime you reduce the density of a 3D mesh, you reduce the artist's capabilities when creating something that uses that same mesh. Poser's current content market relies, almost completely, on a base mesh's ability to be morphed. Reduce the polycount and you reduce that capability - You can't move verts that aren't there. (Though, you can still use materials and such to produce certain sorts of deformations, but that's nothing near as powerful as being able to move just one vert where it's needed.)

what games use a 17,000 polycount ? are they used in the game or just for promos, video's in between levels or something ? what's the 8000 polycount game meshes for ?
you know the polycount in the biggest games ? or a clue how to found out ?

mousso if I ever sell daz poser characters. your drafted to make the promo renders ;)

Those are game asset resolutions and they have to be much smaller meshes. That's a different animal than high-resolution 3D still or animation production. Even so, some games are using assets that are even denser than 17,000 polys for characters! Anytime you reduce the density of a 3D mesh, you reduce the artist's capabilities when creating something that uses that same mesh. Poser's current content market relies, almost completely, on a base mesh's ability to be morphed. Reduce the polycount and you reduce that capability - You can't move verts that aren't there. (Though, you can still use materials and such to produce certain sorts of deformations, but that's nothing near as powerful as being able to move just one vert where it's needed.)

what games use a 17,000 polycount ? are they used in the game or just for promos, video's in between levels or something ? what's the 8000 polycount game meshes for ?
you know the polycount in the biggest games ? or a clue how to found out ?

Here's one article on the issue of increasing polycounts in game assets: http://wccftech.com/ryse-polygon-count-comparision-aaa-titles-crysis-star-citizen/

As far as "how to find out" a simply internet search would probably work. Or, going to a board like Polycount or CGTalk and asking there would probably get the answer. There are plenty of in-game asset files that either get cracked or are open to mod developers that you can quick answers from just by loading them up in an editor that accepts them. There are limits to the usefulness of polycounts, though. But, that some games are starting to push what would have been "insane" polycounts speaks to the fact that some people think that the best polys are more polys... :) :D

That's unreal for games.I'm going to half to rethink the way I think about game meshes.

still think ryse went a little crazy with the polycount.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fv__G6KJQ8

time stamp ya can see the wiremesh.

... you'll hate me for pointing them out, but you'll try not to make then again :-)

Nah I dont hate you :) I'm never going for realism, I like my fairies too much for that and I have a camera if I want photoreal. I'm just having fun rendering :)

You go for whatever you want to in your renders as long as you continue to have fun.  I have been playing with Daz and then Poser for over 10 years now and if I could produce and render to the standard of yours just once I would be over the moon.  If it had been the second render I had done I would have felt I was a natural at this and in the wrong job.

That's unreal for games.I'm going to half to rethink the way I think about game meshes.

still think ryse went a little crazy with the polycount.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fv__G6KJQ8

time stamp ya can see the wiremesh.

  

Thank you for the link. Every day I am more convinced that game engines (assuming that you can still apply such a reductive labeling to these beasts) are the real future of CGI and everything else is a technological dead end. B.t.w., it is refreshing to see another example that the I-hate-realism crowd is a tiny minority in a sea of people sanely salivating for ever improving rendering quality and details.

chaecuna no one can say ryse n goast don't look awesome.
since the game industry is making millions n billions they have the $$$ to push CGI beyond it's limits.
more fun for us :) 

** **

** **

That's unreal for games.I'm going to half to rethink the way I think about game meshes.

still think ryse went a little crazy with the polycount.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fv__G6KJQ8

time stamp ya can see the wiremesh.

 

 

I agree. (That was a COD:Ghost vid, btw.)
It's not just polys that are getting a rethink. Modern game asset textures are getting... ginormous, compared to what they used to be. I took a look at some ripped-out game assets the other day. (From some fansites and, yes, it is completely illegal to do that, but I deleted them after I realized what they were.) Texture sizes for some of these figures reached the 3kx3k+ mark, starting to rival the resolution of Poser "hi-res" character textures. And, these were not full body, UV-Space-Saving textures, either! These were material group textures! /boggle With several of these being incorporated into a game figure.

Admittedly, these were "main character/npc" figures, that people would see a lot of in the game and from close-up views, as well. And, the games I looked at were games centered around a player and npc moving through a world with not a lot of animation assets running around, like large groups of hi-def NPCs. So, it's expected to see large textures on assets that need the details, since you'll be staring at them all day, and smaller ones that don't, since you'll just be blowing up scores of them at long distance with a rocket-launcher... :)

But, because PCs and consoles are really pushing the limits, these days, and are extremely powerful machines in their own right, it seems as if game-devs have been able to break free of having to pay for every darn vert on the screen. With new culling techniques, on-the-fly sub-d, new rendering all around, some of both the polycount and texture size of mainline game assets are getting pretty darn big.

The question this raises is one that I think that everyone interested in Poser and animation/rendering needs to examine. It will determine the future for all such rendering/posing programs:

With game engines pushing the limits and being driven by marketability for third-party products that use them, what is the place of programs like Poser/DS and what will drive innovation in these sorts of products so that they can remain in a tier, all their own?

It's starting to get to the point where a game engine, like Unreal or Cryengine, is approaching the capability in regards to rendering and useability, that Poser/DS offer. Before, Poser/DS sort of stood in its own niche as user-friendly hi-resolution rendering/animation programs.

That is starting to not be the case... Both Unreal and Cryengine are either free or extremely low-cost. True, they are not as user-friendly as Poser/DS. But, what happens as their user-base increases and they start to get more assets that make them user-friendly? What happens to Poser/DS as a result of these sorts of engines not only incorporating heavy meshes and textures, but actually make gains on rendering capability and blow away Poser and DS in terms of their real-time animating capability?

This is serious stuff. It's not just idle speculation. It's serious in the fact that Poser/DS may end up just being a market exclusively for old farts that are married to Poser/DS, not because these products bring anything to the table when compared to the capabilities of free or low-cost top-tier game engines.

Unless Poser/DS can start doing things to compete with the capabilities of these sorts of engines or unless they can provide seamless user-friendly environments that will work with these engines (which they're doing, so it shows some foresight on their part) then these software products that many users here love will be... dead. Deader than Adam's housecat and that's a fact.

Yes, Poser/DS are focusing on game asset and finding a place in a private user's pipeline to produce things for gaming rendering engines that are getting much better than their own. Why? Because, if they can't innovate in other areas, areas that may cost much more to discover a "killer app" to set their product apart, they will die.

When you can have a 50k+ poly game character (or even 100k!) in a next-gen game engine that renders better than Poser/DS and you can dump huge textures in there and play with particle effects and unique lighting, on-demand sub-d if needed, automatic asset-generation like plants and terrains, why in the heck are you going to want to foof around with Poser or DS's rendering engines to produce... still images that take a physics degree in order to make look good or animation sequences that take weeks to render compared to fracking real-time jaw-dropping animation in a game engine that looks much better and uses more complex effects?

Poser/DS will, in the future, become mere front-end, user-friendly, GUI's for game asset creation. That's their only path to survival, IMO. Unless, of course, they can find a killer-app sweet spot that game engines can't provide. A spot that I don't think will exist unless both Poser and DS radically change their software, which ain't gonna happen, 'cause... expensive and too darn difficult to worry with, considering their alternative choice.

PS - With this in mind, a discussion of licensing costs for Poser/DS assets would also need to be put in play. Poser/DS can not "price themselves out of the market" in regards to licensing costs for game assets. If they expect to generate sales with a new dynamic that focuses on game asset creation integration pipelines for Unreal, Cryengine and, to a much lesser extent, Unity (because of Unity's costs), they're going to have to pay attention to their licensing fees and adjust them as the market demands in order to remain competitive.

guess there's not a difference between a game mesh and a regular SubD mesh for hollywood autodesk ,newtek etc etc animations any more.

I know some here including a mod works with game engines.Might motive daz poser to make us some killer app's :) 

@Morkonan
Been trying to push the Unreal Engine and general realtime thing for Poser, waste of time around here for the most part.  Having Unreal Engine running live in Poser's viewport would sell more copies of Poser than they ever sold.  The problem is that non-gamers don't realise how powerful the realtime Game Engines are, and that they're already capable of cinematic quality realtime rendering.  Fact is, I've never seen a result out of Poser that cannot be done in a more enjoyable realtime fashion, in Unreal Engine.

The renderer (and speed of it) is everything in products like DS and Poser, you only have to look at the wave of excitement iRay has caused, and that thing isn't even relaltime and never will be cause it's not designed for that.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, whoever is first to implement Unreal Engine directly into their viewport, is going to crush the competition - it will hit the competition like a lead cannonball when it finally comes to one of these programs.  My ideal setup is Poser's interface with iClone-style animation tools, and all done in realtime with Unreal Engine running in the Poser viewport.  That would be one unbeatable product and people would be falling overthemselves to get at it even if they don't think so.  Seeing it would be something else.

No more waiting for renders, ever, no matter whether it's a still or an animation.  It's the perfect tool for this userbase, and it's the one that will conquer it when it arrives, and it will arrive someday.  It will be interesting to see who manages it first, and I must admit, that's not something I've even bothered to take a guess at where DAZ and SM are concerned, because they both seem far too lax in the decision-making department for me to be able to predict it.  But the features announced in the next Poser release will make the prediction a lot easier, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done to Poser regardless.

I mean, seeing Unreal Engine come in the next version of Poser would be too good to be true, not holding my breath on that one!
It would be scary-time for DAZ if it did though :-D

@Morkonan
Been trying to push the Unreal Engine and general realtime thing for Poser, waste of time around here for the most part.  Having Unreal Engine running live in Poser's viewport would sell more copies of Poser than they ever sold.  The problem is that non-gamers don't realise how powerful the realtime Game Engines are, and that they're already capable of cinematic quality realtime rendering.  Fact is, I've never seen a result out of Poser that cannot be done in a more enjoyable realtime fashion, in Unreal Engine.

The renderer (and speed of it) is everything in products like DS and Poser, you only have to look at the wave of excitement iRay has caused, and that thing isn't even relaltime and never will be cause it's not designed for that.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, whoever is first to implement Unreal Engine directly into their viewport, is going to crush the competition - it will hit the competition like a lead cannonball when it finally comes to one of these programs.  My ideal setup is Poser's interface with iClone-style animation tools, and all done in realtime with Unreal Engine running in the Poser viewport.  That would be one unbeatable product and people would be falling overthemselves to get at it even if they don't think so.  Seeing it would be something else.

No more waiting for renders, ever, no matter whether it's a still or an animation.  It's the perfect tool for this userbase, and it's the one that will conquer it when it arrives, and it will arrive someday.  It will be interesting to see who manages it first, and I must admit, that's not something I've even bothered to take a guess at where DAZ and SM are concerned, because they both seem far too lax in the decision-making department for me to be able to predict it.  But the features announced in the next Poser release will make the prediction a lot easier, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done to Poser regardless.

I mean, seeing Unreal Engine come in the next version of Poser would be too good to be true, not holding my breath on that one!
It would be scary-time for DAZ if it did though :-D

Quoted for truth. And, because there are lots of points worth addressing.
I don't think we'll ever see Poser with an Unreal engine running in the viewport. I wish that would happen, but it won't. (I'd love 'em to prove me wrong, though.) But, if they, both DAZ and SM, want their posing and rendering programs to stay alive, they've GOT to move more towards that sort of environment. It has the glitz and the oomph that would appeal to their current market AND their posing programs an animation power would appeal to gamedev users, too.

They are both taking steps towards this, in some fashion. But, that appears mainly to be modeling asset creation and, primarily, exports to certain formats. (Licensing, etc, as well.) But, that's not going to bring the private, at-home, long-time Poserphile/DAZhead home. Not by a long-shot it won't... What they would need to do is to use their programs as they are, with all their current capabilities, to satisfy their long-time base, but with a focus towards providing a reasonable, basic, front-end GUI for Unreal/Cryengine/Unity inasmuch as those can be supported.

It would, in effect, be much like the DS "bridge" to Hexagon and back - A more seamless integration for asset creation and project development that focuses on producing projects FOR Unreal et al, rather than producing things that "could be used if you know how" for Unreal et al.

This would require a lot of work, no doubt. And, they would also have to suffer being at the mercy of iterative development within the chosen engines. It'd make trying to keep python scipts updated with dev-supplied patches every-other-month...

But, there ain't nothing worth doing that is easy and that's a fact. SM/DAZ could, if they wished to devote the resources, both expand a current market and create a new one, drawing customers from an already existing marketplace that would be paid-feet-in-the-door.

Yeah, a separate materials section, animation blocks, yada yada yada would be needed as well as an interface that translates well. But, we're already seeing things like Reality et al take over from the Firefly engine and that new dynamics program busting the crap out of Poser's dynamics/cloth room. SM is under assault by DAZ, who are cranking out new 3D filetypes and assets by the score, while SM's slow-to-market model just isn't cutting it, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong - I love Poser and it's a lot of fun to fiddle with. But, in the long-term, Poser has to move towards marriage, or at least a good roll in the hay, with the premier game engines that are taking the marketplace by a storm.

If SM/DAZ doesn't do it, somebody will. Blender might, but it's not primarily a "posing/animating" program, though it certainly is geared for that sort of thing. (And, its UI sucks, hard, with little that's intuitive about it.) Somebody is going to marry these gamedev engines and whoever does is going to reap the rewards.

Again, couldn't agree more!

I'm totally baffled how DAZ and SM seem to be under this illusion that the features of their programs will save them from the 'realtime' race.  It should be obvious to them that if they don't implement Unreal Engine into their viewport, then they're both out of the race the moment Unreal Engine implements an easy-to-use Poser or DAZ Studio figure-rig that works directly inside Unreal Engine.  Unreal Engine is lightyears ahead of DS and Poser in every area but ease of use.

That's the only thing they need to change and that would be disastrous for both DAZ and SM (and even iClone) - surely they must know this.

I think they need to take advantage of the fact that Unreal Engine can be licenced, get a contract agreed on and just get on with it.  No one is going to be interested in waiting for stills and animations to render in DS or Poser if Unreal Engine was to get an easy-to-use built-in figure with Pose and Morph dials.  All that needs to happen is for some plugin developer to create such a thing for Unreal Engine, and that's it, I think both DAZ and SM would learn the hard way about what bad decision making can do.  Unreal Engine is completely open now, even the source can be had, people can develop for it as they wish, so sooner or later, that stuff will come.

So yup, couldn't agree more, if DAZ and/or SM don't do it, somebody else will.