Just a little post to let everyone know here of the release of Daz Studio 4.9 Public Beta and a major change in how content will be delivered once 4.9 goes live..

The new system that is incoming is called Daz Connect, what you may ask is Daz Connect? Well best to head on over to the Daz Forums because right now there are major rumblings from the Daz forums over Daz Connect..

Lets just say that big changes are coming and by the looks not all of them will be good..

I know I am running 4.9 most of the changes are good ghostly but the Daz Connect is a grey area and I agree. I run the DRM system on other software and usually if the net skips a beat some I get lock out but usually if the software content is available on a trial you get trial spattered across your screen you can't see what you are doing

Hmmm....do I, or don't I....that seems to be the question. As one of those 'early user' people because of my ADHD and need to play with new stuff and see how it breaks, I'm still a bit cautious because I don't understand half of what's going on already. Guess I'll have to grit my teeth after the DSL resets in a week and download it to a separate iteration.

I kept 4.8. Its Beta so it shouldn't replace your 4.8 Just do a backup of your content to an external drive get 4.9 and if it goes pear shaped then you have solution. I still think the benefits outweigh the negs even with the cloud based DRM management. I feel the Props/Content loads a little quicker just haven't had much time to check out both the claimed render engines improvements properly. I was going to wait and after 3 minutes like you ADHD took over I had waited long enough and all went silky smooth. I didn't do the backup of course because I never practice what I preach most is scattered far and wide anyhow tbh probably be doing me a favour if it disappeared

You should see what is happening over at the Daz forums the amount of disgruntled people over these changes to the new incoming content delivery system is well lets just say some folks are planning on ditching Daz content altogether and going places like here at Renderosity, RDNA or Hivewire..

Yes they said the same thing when PC club rules were changed, when Genesis 2 replaced Genesis 1, and when Genesis 3 arrived so soon. People don't like change and the venting you see is a natural occurrence.

No I'm serious. Cloud is evil. so no way. If DAZ goes cloud, that's it, I'm gone. Bummer I've just started to like DAZ. Was a very short affaire. If worst comes worst, I'll go back to pen and paper.

Depends on the cloud system. All the Daz one will do is alert you of real time content updates, sort content, suggest products etc. Expecting users to monitor this themselves isn't working as half of them aren't alerted when a product has been updated unless they check dim every time. The system isn't going to steal your information or spy on you. Not all cloud systems are evil. This cloud system is strictly for content management and how it is handled, nothing else. Are people scared of this type of thing? Yes, but it all depends on the type of company behind the system. I don't think Daz is an evil corporation that want to know what you had for supper or monitor your private actions. We all have different views on these things. I for one have no issue with cloud systems because in a lot of ways it is more dynamic and real-time compared to older systems. Only issue I do have is some companies motives behind them. In this regard, I don't think Daz's motives are to harm users or violate their trust.

The one thing that is good to know now is that they are also going to allow the download of encrypted product package files along with the authorization file unique to the purchaser to allow offline installation.. :D

The cloud part is undesirable. I don't want my content across the network. I don't need my software phoning home. I don't want things I paid for DRM'ed. I won't take any release of Studio with that in it (as is the current plan for 4.9) and I won't buy any content from DAZ that is DRM'ed (which is the stated future DAZ content delivery plan).

Leftover Pot Roast again? Interesting...

Zev0 posted at 3:09PM Wed, 28 October 2015 - #4235687

I don't think Daz is an evil corporation that want to know what you had for supper or monitor your private actions.

I understand, that they want fight piracy. But it all mostley affects legal users. Piracy is realy a PITA, when people start to make money with your work. I think it's more effective to go against the piracy system then against the downloaders. Like go against dealers, not addicts. About 15years ago at my school, Poser stuff has been shared a lot. None of the guys made money with it. Those nerds opened Poser twisting V1 around, giggled, shared it on and forgot it. Those who liked it, played with it for a while and purchased the next version legally. So I think, those warez helped make Poser and content popular. Where do you get informations about 3dcg stuff from? I don't know about the US, but in europe, I have never ever seen a comercial dealing with CG, Poser or DAZStudio on TV nor in magazins or anywhere else. If you want to know anything about that, you have to be allready into it, and you have to know where to look for it. So do something against the big guys. This scene is highley criminal. They will find a way to provide cracks anyway. The only ones, that have all the problems are the legal customers.

And Renderosity taught me, that not even Credit Card nr are save, so how would purchased cloud content be safe?

Zev0 posted at 7:45AM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235667

Yes they said the same thing when PC club rules were changed, when Genesis 2 replaced Genesis 1, and when Genesis 3 arrived so soon. People don't like change and the venting you see is a natural occurrence.

Exactly a storm in a teacup. We should not lose sight of the fact Daz give away the software, allow you to buy products and utilize from outside of their domain, make your own content and if you wish sell it at any number of outlets including their own store. Or if you're like me export everything out for use in other software. Not many companies on the planet give you that much freedom you usually have a ball and chain. We click agree on their terms of use it is only fair we let them protect what content they do have and the vendors who produce it for their store. Piracy has all but killed the music industry and now the film industry are kicking and screaming as suffering the same. You challenge somebody who has stolen your product you get a response "You should be happy that I thought enough of it to steal it" dealing with that mentality I fully understand Daz's moves towards DRM providing it is stable system we should support it. After all you paid your hard earned money for the content you are using why should the theives be able to utilize it for free. IMO that is more of a slap in the face than anything Daz are doing. Of course they also had the option to charge for the software somebody can correct me here but wasn't it "Daz 4.5 FREE for a limited time" ? Lose in one area make up for it in another.

Despite the "cloud" bit the system will work offline when complete, aside from a one time activation to let your computer verify your account. At the moment the offline download isn't available, but even without it you can use your installed content offline - a connection is needed only for installing and updating content.

It doesn't work with Carrara. I held on with DS until G3F. Quit right there. My setup is 32-bit, so I cannot use Iray. Nor will I install this 4.9 beta.

Extremely bad evolution. Time to seriously (not just an emotional reaction, but cold, calculated one) look at something different from Poser (check nightmarish Smith Micro situation) and different from Studio (absolute power corrupts absolutely). And, since I am programmer by profession, also time to give a hard look at Poser, Studio and Blender scripting (mcjTeleblender is a great inspiration, isn't it? suggests lots of ideas, doesn't it?).

@LPR001: "Free for some time" is good but "Free as beer and speech forever" it better, much better.

Keep in mind this is strictly a business decision. DAZ is no longer a small shop run by a group of artists, but is now but one small piece of a $80 Billion dollar corporation, Nippon Telegraph and Telephone, and has to contribute to their bottom line...

WandW posted at 10:43AM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235778

Keep in mind this is strictly a business decision. DAZ is no longer a small shop run by a group of artists, but is now but one small piece of a $80 Billion dollar corporation, Nippon Telegraph and Telephone, and has to contribute to their bottom line...

And so is Smith micro. I wouldn't be surprised that their connected to the web protection becomes a reality in all versions of Poser as the other products in SM's product line.

"Of course they also had the option to charge for the software somebody can correct me here but wasn't it "Daz 4.5 FREE for a limited time" "

The marketing phrase your looking for is "creating a sense of urgency" and is much smarter business than "pick it up any time before the end of the world". Having an option does not mean it is good business in the "free to play" economy to go back to a strategy you already have proof is not ideal.

WandW posted at 5:08PM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235778

DAZ is no longer a small shop run by a group of artists, but is now but one small piece of a $80 Billion dollar corporation, Nippon Telegraph and Telephone, and has to contribute to their bottom line...

Say what now?

DAZ_kevin posted at 5:10PM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235707

Leftover Pot Roast again? Interesting...

Zev0 posted at 3:09PM Wed, 28 October 2015 - #4235687

I don't think Daz is an evil corporation that want to know what you had for supper or monitor your private actions.

Lol Kev

Well considering that if you do not have a physical copy of Photoshop, you are stuck with Photoshop CC where you pay either a monthly, yearly or as you need it sub to use their software and well a lot of other companies are heading in the same direction with their software.. So in some respect the Daz thing could be a lot worse, I remember when you had to pay I think it was $450 or $500 for Daz Studio Pro and Advanced.. Also with the licensing costs that Daz have to pay for 3Delight which is by looking at the 3Delight website is not cheap, and who knows how much they are having to fork out to Nvidia for the use of Iray makes you wonder..

I was a bit taken aback by these changes at first but after thinking about it good and properly I can understand totally now for this move by Daz.. I am a hobby artist who has done some work for a small website and have found some of the premium content from that website being posted where it should not have been.. And well it is quite infuriating when you see your own work being stolen by others because there goes your bread and butter so to speak being made free for everyone.. I know that there is no real way to stop piracy but you would like to be able to slow it down just a bit..

So in the end the only way they can recoup the costs of Studio is from the content they sell and well the problem is that currently there is so much stolen Daz content out there I am surprised it took them this long to do what they have done.. And don't think that Daz are the only ones losing their content to pirates there is probably a ton of Renderosity, RDNA and Renderotica content floating around out there in the DarkWeb..

This will protect Daz PA content from Illegal Distribution....for at least several hours.

Perhaps even longer than the "encryption" That was promised to protect the Sony Blu-Ray Discs for "ten years" from having the HD video extracted and put on torrent...it lasted 3 hours.

But hey Daz has to make the effort Piracy s quite rampant. My usage is not affected as I am staying with DS 4.7 for the foreseeable future

I dont need any more new content and will likely start making my own genesis 2 content if needed, as it is so bloody easy now.

-Timberwolf- posted at 1:30PM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235682

No I'm serious. Cloud is evil. so no way. If DAZ goes cloud, that's it, I'm gone. Bummer I've just started to like DAZ. Was a very short affaire. If worst comes worst, I'll go back to pen and paper.

OK, then to be serious, Daz Studio resides on your computer, your content resides on your computer. The only time you need to connect is to download and install your content that you don't already have on your computer or for updating the content/software on your computer.

bhoins posted at 10:53PM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235833

-Timberwolf- posted at 1:30PM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235682

No I'm serious. Cloud is evil. so no way. If DAZ goes cloud, that's it, I'm gone. Bummer I've just started to like DAZ. Was a very short affaire. If worst comes worst, I'll go back to pen and paper.

OK, then to be serious, Daz Studio resides on your computer, your content resides on your computer. The only time you need to connect is to download and install your content that you don't already have on your computer or for updating the content/software on your computer.

Yes. Definitely. Until you will again hear an ominous deep breath and a voice will inform you that the deal has been further altered.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

They're converting Studio into another storefront. The ability to render the content you buy from them is becoming its secondary purpose. The main goal is to make advertising to the users prominent and make purchasing seamless. They'll get more impulse buys than ever before. "Hey your scene has V7 and some ropes in it - click here to buy some chains, whip cream and a new S&M outfit which will be automatically installed and populated into your scene." That's where this is going. They could have done tons of things to fix how users install their content to achieve their purported goal of addressing all the "I can't find my stuff" support tickets they're whining about - integrating directly with the store isn't necessary for that.

Zev0 posted at 1:04AM Fri, 30 October 2015 - #4235687

Depends on the cloud system. All the Daz one will do is alert you of real time content updates, sort content, suggest products etc. Expecting users to monitor this themselves isn't working as half of them aren't alerted when a product has been updated unless they check dim every time. The system isn't going to steal your information or spy on you. Not all cloud systems are evil. This cloud system is strictly for content management and how it is handled, nothing else. Are people scared of this type of thing? Yes, but it all depends on the type of company behind the system. I don't think Daz is an evil corporation that want to know what you had for supper or monitor your private actions. We all have different views on these things. I for one have no issue with cloud systems because in a lot of ways it is more dynamic and real-time compared to older systems. Only issue I do have is some companies motives behind them. In this regard, I don't think Daz's motives are to harm users or violate their trust.

We don't know their motives.

I wonder if the DRM isn't a double bluff; not mention it, folks get caught up on it, when the intent long-term is to go subscription only. After all, the EULA already says 'we' don't own it, only licence it. And EULAs change. It is a logical progression from what is being introduced now. I guess we'll wait and see. Other than the DRM and the cloud part, there is lots to like about this. After 4.8 it isn't ground-breaking, but small speed improvements in render speeds and bug fixes are always nice.

"If DAZ goes cloud, that's it, I'm gone."

Why is it a simple name change makes people get all woggly? The reality is that content has been jumping on and off that same cloud since DIM came out. It goes there when you purchase it so you can download it, it goes back there when you use DIM to remove something. The rest of the time it lives right there on your hard drive with you. The difference is that it is easier and it does not depend on you having to start a different program. No, not every one uses DIM but the vast majority for them there really is no change where downloads are coming from. DIM skippers are not seeing a change either.

I can't imagine them ever going to subscription only because it would be a frekin nightmare for them. There are several hundred individual PA's with thousands of individual products in the store. Can you imagine the accounting nightmare it would be to sort out who got what for how ever many days potentially hundreds of products were subscribed to? And there would be no way to equitably pay PA's unless it were on a per item basis since there is so much variable in how many products people have and which products are most popular. Nor is there any logic to the program going subscription because all that does is screw up a working marketing scheme.

"They're converting Studio into another storefront. The ability to render the content you buy from them is becoming its secondary purpose. The main goal is to make advertising to the users prominent and make purchasing seamless. They'll get more impulse buys than ever before. "Hey your scene has V7 and some ropes in it - click here to buy some chains, whip cream and a new S&M outfit which will be automatically installed and populated into your scene." That's where this is going. They could have done tons of things to fix how users install their content to achieve their purported goal of addressing all the "I can't find my stuff" support tickets they're whining about - integrating directly with the store isn't necessary for that."

Yes, they are adding a little window that will show options from the store. But as store fronts go its pretty small since it is a section at the bottom of the smart content tab. And since it is so unobtrusive most people can't even find it at first I doubt if it will be super distracting unless people are looking to be distracted. Nor does it seem to actually be as aware of my content as you seem to think it should be.

By the way what your calling "whining" is them actually listening to what many customers have trouble with and trying to address it and simplify it. I have been at this a long time and I am pretty confident about where my content is. In fact I am pretty old school so I never really learned to use smart content.... Until now. It is so much easier to really see what the content is with Smart content that when I am just looking to see if something inspires me or strikes me vs me going right to what I know I am about to use. Now if after 10 years I suddenly find it easier to locate things how much easier must it be for someone just starting out?

Why do I get the feeling that when the dust settles at the Daz3D forums regarding this issue, and the people who are just stirring trouble there for the sake of it are moved on. This thread is going to heat up a bit. There is lots of speculation about motive and future direction of Daz3D when very little factual evidence of that said "intention" is evident. Sure the next Eula might want the blood of your first born child but then again it might not...

I do not use modern Photoshop because it is taking my money week in, week out. I prefer to buy things and own them wherever possible - like hard-copies of books. Then, when I want o take them from the shelf I can do so, without relying on external connections and the whims of publishers. DRM using the cloud is definitely not for me, and neither is a subscription service. I have thoroughly enjoyed being addicted to DS for a year or so, but once the pleasure wears off, I am out of here. Why can't companies realise that the people they have on baord should be cherished?

Razor42 posted at 2:04PM Fri, 30 October 2015 - #4235913

Sure the next Eula might want the blood of your first born child but then again it might not...

Using your line of reasoning, if I see a mushroom I should eat it without seconds thoughts, since it is known that there are edible mushrooms around... I don't know why but I have some gut feeling that there is something wrong somewhere in this strategy...

" and neither is a subscription service."

I really don't know what yahoo first made up that bs but its someone who has just no clue what the word brokerage means or how a brokerage works. The accounting cost alone would be prohibitive unless the how the whole company was organized. And to do that they would have to get hundreds of people on board. Imagine thousands of individual products starting subscriptions for x time every single day with some being pro rated. Then imagine that the money for those thousands of individual subscriptions having to be properly added to the accounts of hundreds of PA's. Then imagine that on top of that some hundreds of subscriptions expire or are other wise ended. Again some being pro rated if there was a CS issue. The accounting would just be so daunting even if they could get 300 people to sign on to a risky concept like that. And before anyone says "oh but they can just do all buy outs" that way also is crazy talk because it means that the cost of doing business skyrockets into the stratosphere. Brokerages work because they don't have to pre pay for the bulk of the inventory that goes into them.

So I dont like the new strategy that DAZ is using, honestly, I dont want to pick another argument because ive had enough of it. Since August ive been bickering with Renderosity about the new format and prime. Now this happens over at DAZ it seems like it starts all over again. Whether or not DAZ's intentions are innocent only seem to be part of the problem. Im sure all that DAZ wants to do is sell content. Today, the issue really is how someone else with dishonest intentions is going to use your bandwidth. We learned about that here at Renderosity and Hivewire when our cards were hacked. Weve learned about how user accounts on Steam are being hacked. DAZ is entering the DRM fray late and im sure that there are many hackers who are going to go to town and the new encryption. Does DAZ have the resources to commit a full time team protect its encryption? How will this impact the overall goal of improving the render capabilities? Im convinced that the hacker community is purposely targeting the new and shiny while leaving all the old tech in the past, although I have no real evidence to back that up. Thats part of the reason why I dont want to move from the .zip. Anyhow, I was so upset at Rendo that I made no purchases since August and all of a sudden, im back... What can you do?

What you can do is tell them you won't be punished for being a loyal user when their "anti-piracy" measures will only hamper your ability to use the content you pay for. meanwhile the methods they describe to prevent privacy might do little more then delay it, but it far from stops it. Poser are you watching? You should be; Remember when QuarkXPress was king of desktop publishing and InDesign was struggling for a life preserver?

HassenBenSobar posted at 11:36AM Fri, 30 October 2015 - #4235949

So I dont like the new strategy that DAZ is using, honestly, I dont want to pick another argument because ive had enough of it. Since August ive been bickering with Renderosity about the new format and prime. Now this happens over at DAZ it seems like it starts all over again. Whether or not DAZ's intentions are innocent only seem to be part of the problem. Im sure all that DAZ wants to do is sell content. Today, the issue really is how someone else with dishonest intentions is going to use your bandwidth. We learned about that here at Renderosity and Hivewire when our cards were hacked. Weve learned about how user accounts on Steam are being hacked. DAZ is entering the DRM fray late and im sure that there are many hackers who are going to go to town and the new encryption. Does DAZ have the resources to commit a full time team protect its encryption? How will this impact the overall goal of improving the render capabilities? Im convinced that the hacker community is purposely targeting the new and shiny while leaving all the old tech in the past, although I have no real evidence to back that up. Thats part of the reason why I dont want to move from the .zip. Anyhow, I was so upset at Rendo that I made no purchases since August and all of a sudden, im back... What can you do?

It isn't about hackers though is it. It is about thieves who want to make an easy buck by "giving away" stolen content and making money off ad views or subscription services to access those "free" products. Those are people who want easy money not money that takes effort. And if hackers have to waste time that they could be spending trying to make big money hits on little piddling files for "free" "share" sites so be it.

As far as the overall impact on render capabilities.. Do you mean the upgrades added to 3dl and Iray in the new build? There were some speed increases and bug fixes.

I do know that the new version makes smart content easier to work with. I've been resistant to it (old dog/new tricks) in the past but really quite like it now. It is so much more visual and appealing. Plus the info pane has been beefed up and is quite handy.

klown posted at 11:49AM Fri, 30 October 2015 - #4235958

What you can do is tell them you won't be punished for being a loyal user when their "anti-piracy" measures will only hamper your ability to use the content you pay for. meanwhile the methods they describe to prevent privacy might do little more then delay it, but it far from stops it. Poser are you watching? You should be; Remember when QuarkXPress was king of desktop publishing and InDesign was struggling for a life preserver?

The vast majority of users will never even notice the encryption. Maps are not encrypted and those are the things that most users play with if they are going to make changes outside the scope of the program. The only "hampering" is to editing the core text file outside the program. That is something only a very few users feel they need to do.

You really think that Poser/SM is currently in a position financial to do the sort of marketing drive necessary to see any a dramatic enough increase in user numbers? Or that they are willing to make course corrections to even potentially take advantage of ease of use things Studio users would expect to be able to do in a program? Nor is there absolute proof that they have learned there lesson about "phoning home" which Daz did and made sure to not implement.

Can I install that content, where I want it to? And what if I decide to upgrade my hardware every 6 months? Is it the same content system Cornucopia uses for Vue content?

If you use the DAZ Connect to install content it will install to the first library listed in Content Directory Manager. It doesn't really matter though as you can only see this content in Smart Content tab or under Products or Categories in the Content Library tab.

malwat posted at 3:51AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4235932

I do not use modern Photoshop because it is taking my money week in, week out. I prefer to buy things and own them wherever possible - like hard-copies of books.

In some areas what Adobe did was not such a bad thing as there are a lot of people in the world that would have never had the opportunity to buy the Photoshop software outright. There is very early version of PS here you practically had to sell a kidney to buy a copy. Adobe still have their training wheels on with it though CC2014 upgrade to 2015 80% or more that you had purchased from their store was no longer compatible. So each time you started your computer it would give you a flood of install failed CC messages. I paid for these and there are still some that the vendor has not updated and have been unusable for a longer period than I could utilize them in the first place. Cloud issues etc, I always found Daz to be fast paced company and the vendors etc kept up with anything required re updates. Obviously given the advance spec requirements etc. One could say Daz were leaders not followers in most areas So there might be reason why they have been very slow to go down this path (Look and Learn) and there still is a chance they will get it right with a minimum of inconvenience to the user. They probably have even factored in the initial customary bitchin' session which we all know, love and are entitled to do.

I am not so sure on the cloud side it is a wait and see. I don't mind the little shop they have going I can live with it even if a little subliminal while you scroll through your content and the one thing that would suit perfectly is in the next box down. The main thing I have noticed is the render times it does seem to kick along quicker

klown posted at 11:55AM Fri, 30 October 2015 - #4235958

What you can do is tell them you won't be punished for being a loyal user when their "anti-piracy" measures will only hamper your ability to use the content you pay for. meanwhile the methods they describe to prevent privacy might do little more then delay it, but it far from stops it. Poser are you watching? You should be; Remember when QuarkXPress was king of desktop publishing and InDesign was struggling for a life preserver?

Certainly, and I dont intend to pruchase content via DAZ Connect and I wont be purchasing DRM content "offline" bundles. I will take a look at 4.9 eventually but only after its out of beta and only after its had a thorough dissection by the community. If they do offer an offline only version, that will be the way to go for me.

I was always wondering how and when this type of anit-piracy measure was going to be introduced.

After chatting with one content creator a few years ago we got round to talking about this very subject. His idea (a joke with a hint of seriousness) was to upload virus infected files to those giving away his content on sharing sites. Amusing at the time, but since there is little or no real protection for content creators like the movie and movie industry have, it was only a matter of time before something like this was implemented.

Regarding DRM. It's been tried, tested and has failed where music and video content is concerned so I can't see it working for DAZ. I'll give it a week or two before the hackers and crackers reverse engineeer the files and post them online.

Then what?

maxgrafix posted at 2:48PM Fri, 30 October 2015 - #4236040

I was always wondering how and when this type of anit-piracy measure was going to be introduced.

After chatting with one content creator a few years ago we got round to talking about this very subject. His idea (a joke with a hint of seriousness) was to upload virus infected files to those giving away his content on sharing sites. Amusing at the time, but since there is little or no real protection for content creators like the movie and movie industry have, it was only a matter of time before something like this was implemented.

Regarding DRM. It's been tried, tested and has failed where music and video content is concerned so I can't see it working for DAZ. I'll give it a week or two before the hackers and crackers reverse engineeer the files and post them online.

Then what?

I think it may have been the first Batman game, Arkham Asylum, they purposely coded a bug that would reproduce if the game detected that it was illegal. If I remember correctly, in the tutorial sequence where Batman has to make his way across the gargoyles for the first time, Batman would not leap from the gargoyles leaving the game soft locked. I think code like that would be a super creative alternative to drm. I just never heard of anyone else trying something like that.

HassenBenSobar posted at 9:57PM Fri, 30 October 2015 - #4236041

maxgrafix posted at 2:48PM Fri, 30 October 2015 - #4236040

I was always wondering how and when this type of anit-piracy measure was going to be introduced.

After chatting with one content creator a few years ago we got round to talking about this very subject. His idea (a joke with a hint of seriousness) was to upload virus infected files to those giving away his content on sharing sites. Amusing at the time, but since there is little or no real protection for content creators like the movie and movie industry have, it was only a matter of time before something like this was implemented.

Regarding DRM. It's been tried, tested and has failed where music and video content is concerned so I can't see it working for DAZ. I'll give it a week or two before the hackers and crackers reverse engineeer the files and post them online.

Then what?

I think it may have been the first Batman game, Arkham Asylum, they purposely coded a bug that would reproduce if the game detected that it was illegal. If I remember correctly, in the tutorial sequence where Batman has to make his way across the gargoyles for the first time, Batman would not leap from the gargoyles leaving the game soft locked. I think code like that would be a super creative alternative to drm. I just never heard of anyone else trying something like that.

Interesting indeed. After reading through the DAZ forums regarding DS 4.9 it appears many are against the idea of DRM content. I'll keep a close eye over the next few months to see how it pans out.

Well I've just asked for a large refund, I don't like how it's being handled. I'm not against them protecting their products, I'm against them refusing to answer how we can be sure we won't lose access to it.

Way too many posts have been removed.

"I am not so sure on the cloud side it is a wait and see."

Why? Nothing bad has happened with DIM and it is the exact same sort of cloud set up.

"I'm not against them protecting their products, I'm against them refusing to answer how we can be sure we won't lose access to it."

I'm not sure how many more ways they have to say stuff. First, you can always keep using DIM or zips. Second, the only way you lose access is if something goes wrong on your computer. Pretty much the same kind of goes wrong that would nuke the serial number in the program itself. Once you have the content on your computer its there till you remove it. The cloud stores content you have not yet installed or have removed. If you install it it is on your computer. This is basically the same exact set up as DIM that people have been using for several years now. The only big change is ease of use for those of us who want that.

@Writers_Block With Daz or any Biz/Co if you entered a contract to purchase goods between this date and that date and clicked agree you have purchased them under those rules and conditions as with any business transaction you keep your records and a copy of the agreed terms. I have always had a good run with Daz and do rate them highly with their conduct and if I have had an issue which is only a handful in all these years it has always gone in my favour and they have fixed the issue. I am sure Daz are getting the message loud and clear about people's feelings and I seriously doubt they are going to block access to a customer's previous purchases nor was it ever their intention. Besides if they did I would just say "Don't make me jump in my Volkswagen and head down there to sort this out" they will know I am already ticked off and on the warpath. I have spent a lot of money on content there and I fully expect that content to remain in my possession long after this all dies down

"Using your line of reasoning, if I see a mushroom I should eat it without seconds thoughts, since it is known that there are edible mushrooms around... I don't know why but I have some gut feeling that there is something wrong somewhere in this strategy..."

Using your own line of reasoning someone says "aliens are coming" I should rush to the store and buy tin foil and start practicing my hat making skills. I prefer relying on rationality and practical reasoning to determine the difference between a field mushroom and fly agaric. Ref: The sky is falling

"DRM using the cloud is definitely not for me, and neither is a subscription service."

For a start who said anything about Subscriptions and DS. Basically using DIM is using a form of cloud server... Did you have any issue with DIM? So I take it you don't game, use modern software or buy music? All of these feature forms of DRM and cloud servers. Ref: Cloud Computing

"Does DAZ have the resources to commit a full time team protect its encryption? How will this impact the overall goal of improving the render capabilities?"

Currently Daz and Renderosity and other products have a security level of 0. Thats right 'keys left in the ignition' ripe for harvest from anyone who can download a file and reupload to Warez. This step isn't about restriction of use or even defeating a pirate armada, it's about taking the key out of the ignition and locking the doors. Making it just that bit harder for a pirate to casually steal what they will. As far as render capabilities 4.9 has improvements in both Iray and 3Delight.

"What you can do is tell them you won't be punished for being a loyal user when their "anti-piracy" measures will only hamper your ability to use the content you pay for."

So your hampered in which way by using Daz Connect may I ask? So you don't believe in any Anti piracy measures at all, wow, let me ask do you have a firewall on your computer? ...

Can I install that content, where I want it to? And what if I decide to upgrade my hardware every 6 months?

Yes you can set Daz Connect to install where you want you just need to do your organisation of products within studio now and not by using the OS as a database manager. You're free to upgrade as much as you like you can backup and migrate your database and you just need to initialise your new version of DS when installed on your new machine

"If they do offer an offline only version, that will be the way to go for me."

It's already there instead of logging in when launching DS 4.9 just tick work offline.

"Regarding DRM. It's been tried, tested and has failed where music and video content is concerned so I can't see it working for DAZ. I'll give it a week or two before the hackers and crackers reverse engineer the files and post them online."

Really? well it should be no issue to name a movie or music or game online supplier that uses no form of DRM then right? How long would it take the Hackers and crackers to get onto your system if they wanted? Do you take any precautions on your own system or posessions to make it more difficult for theft if it was attempted. Why should Daz3D not do the same. If reasonable measure can be taken to make theft more difficult why should they not be taken?

"I think it may have been the first Batman game, Arkham Asylum, they purposely coded a bug that would reproduce if the game detected that it was illegal."

This is a form of DRM, so are code wheels and Manual word references, DRM can refer to any means digital or physical used to protect the rights of an digital contents owner. What is DRM?

"I'm against them refusing to answer how we can be sure we won't lose access to it."

I have seen this answered numerous times on the Daz Forums developers and moderators are participating in at least three threads I know of answering and even listening to issues, let me ask you how can you reassure me we all won't die tomorrow in a massive global earthquake? Better still can you guarantee me it won't happen ever? Your refund just punished a load of PA's that's all. So you're not against them protecting their product just against them actually protecting their product. May I ask what you would do differently to protect content in this industry? Daz3D have outlayed plans for a strategy for dealing with worst case scenarios such as Daz3D disappearing overnight which which would be in the form of a failsafe that unlocks all encryption on products.

LPR001 posted at 2:12AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236072

and I fully expect that content to remain in my possession long after this all dies down

Until the deal is further altered.

If DAZ manages to impose this step, they can (and will) go further down the software-as-service road. The "logical" next step is everything-is-"free" but then you have to pay a small amount whenever you try to render or export a scene. It is not far fetched, it is like what happens in pay-per-view video services where you have to pay whenever you watch a movie, regardless of whether you have already watched in the past (contrast with buying a DVD and then being able to watch the movie without further costs, as many times as you like).

Perversely, there is a positive side in this story. Up to a couple of days ago, I considered Richard Stallman insistence on free-as-speech (w.r.t. to just free-as-beer) extremist, almost taliban-like. I have now realized that this stance is instead fundamental, because it means that, as long as you deal with free-as-speech tools and content, you are never at risk of waking up in the morning at the sound of a big, black-clad brute, wheezing that the "deal has been altered". The time and money I invest in e.g. Blender or GIMP won't go down the drain tomorrow at the wim of some PHB/marketdroid/bean counter and therefore... back to my project of a library of Cycles shaders for rendering Poser/Studio characters into Blender, the first step to kiss everybody (SM and DAZ) bye bye.

chaecuna posted at 12:52PM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236079

LPR001 posted at 2:12AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236072

and I fully expect that content to remain in my possession long after this all dies down

Until the deal is further altered.

If DAZ manages to impose this step, they can (and will) go further down the software-as-service road. The "logical" next step is everything-is-"free" but then you have to pay a small amount whenever you try to render or export a scene. It is not far fetched, it is like what happens in pay-per-view video services where you have to pay whenever you watch a movie, regardless of whether you have already watched in the past (contrast with buying a DVD and then being able to watch the movie without further costs, as many times as you like).

Wow, this would be a nightmare to work out payments for the PA's that create the majority of products at DAZ3D, nightmarish to the point of making it actually completely unworkable or even impossible. A full analysis of every scene rendered by every user, then a breakdown of which items were more important in the scene (Psychical Artistic analysis of each complete render), a breakdown would then need to be generated across up to a potential of 100's of different PA's work in every scene rendered by every user 100,000's of time a day. Sounds like it would need a computer bigger than the NSA... All with the potential of making less money for each PA and DAZ3D as a whole with massive implementation costs.
Any proof for this or just more sky is falling talk?.. See above reference...

Perversely, there is a positive side in this story. Up to a couple of days ago, I considered Richard Stallman insistence on free-as-speech (w.r.t. to just free-as-beer) extremist, almost taliban-like. I have now realized that this stance is instead fundamental, because it means that, as long as you deal with free-as-speech tools and content, you are never at risk of waking up in the morning at the sound of a big, black-clad brute, wheezing that the "deal has been altered". The time and money I invest in e.g. Blender or GIMP won't go down the drain tomorrow at the wim of some PHB/marketdroid/bean counter and therefore... back to my project of a library of Cycles shaders for rendering Poser/Studio characters into Blender, the first step to kiss everybody (SM and DAZ) bye bye.

Nothing is %100 guaranteed in life. Even life itself.

SO the first step to kissing SM and DAZ goodbye is working out how to implement SM and DAZ3D figures into Blender. I see. Seems that using Blender without SM or DAZ3D figures or making your own would be the first step? Or am I oversimplifying...