Hi All

Ok for how often I post here, my opinion may not matter but I'm going to give it any way.

When I first came to renderosity it was about members helping members with admin/mod/co-ord support NOW it's just a damned warzone and nonsense.

In real life in any relationship it has to be GIVE and TAKE!!! Well in honest opinion after de-toxing from here for last week or more, I can clearly now see that both sides are taking but not giving a damned inch. Unless there's some give soon, both sides will have destroyed what was once a good community. So STAFF AND MEMBERS, you both need to sit down and think. All families fight but eventually they have to make up, but that's not what's happening here. Time to listen on both sides and get things answered.

Time we started working together, calmly pointing out issues, admin need to listen to the ACTUAL questions asked, members need to file everything calmly.

I've shut everything down, me being upset and angry wasn't what my children needed from me, it's been a bad example on my part. I taught my kids to follow your own path in life and that's exactly what I did, walked away from all the flaming as it was starting to affect offline life.

For my part in this saga, I'm sorry but what I needed I never got until LPR stepped in, a clear answer to affiliates being linked to freebies since mine was a 2D store. I shouldn't have needed though to ask same question several times to get clarification and yeah I'm gonna get angry when I keep having to repeat myself and I'm sure i'm not the only affiliate who was wondering. This is first I've loaded rendo in any serious way in last 10 days, I've barely opened 3D because I thought about quitting and whether it was worth it. 3D is my world away from reality so i decided I still want to be here, just no longer very active on Renderosity.

Just an Opinion

Piper

Hi Pip- Yes, relationships are about give/take. I completely agree with you. And, it seems as if we're making rules and not asking for your opinion. For that, I apologize. From now on, I promise to involve you guys more often than I had. But, it seems no matter what we say, you guys think we're not listening. It seems if when we DO explain something, it gets twisted into something that wasn't intended on meaning and that's why we may seem like we don't "listen."

A long time ago, I've heard stories that the community was more about helping than hurting one another. It was more about being a team rather than who is against whom. And, I'd like to get back to that. I promise to try harder in letting you guys be part of the decision-making. But, please note, if we don't agree/take your opinion, that doesn't mean that we're not listening. I apologize if it seems like I'm belittling or talking to you guys like children. You are not children, you are adults.

Let's start to trust each other little by little and see where it takes us.

Thank you.

I'm finished Hope, I no longer have an interest in toxicity, it does neither my health nor my family any good.

Being treated like a child or like i'm simple minded, I'm used because of my disability but this was one place I could be "normal", it was company every day until this all blew up, Have you been in chat recently? it's dead!!!

I've lost everything this site meant to me and it is time for me to go, I'd rather be alone in real life and talking to my shadow that be sitting in a dead chat room talking to a white box or in my case blue. There's nothing here for me any more. Nothing worth staying for. I'll idle and buy if I need to but won't be often. Everything has left me even more cut off than before the "Revolution" that should never have been.

I wish you all well but nothing to hold me here, nothing to make me laugh, no friends in chat to share the sorrow. I honestly thought that 2015 was bad ......... this is 20 times worse.

Hugs

Piper

hopeandlove posted at 4:15PM Mon, 14 March 2016 - #4261060

Hi Pip- Yes, relationships are about give/take. I completely agree with you. And, it seems as if we're making rules and not asking for your opinion. For that, I apologize. From now on, I promise to involve you guys more often than I had. But, it seems no matter what we say, you guys think we're not listening. It seems if when we DO explain something, it gets twisted into something that wasn't intended on meaning and that's why we may seem like we don't "listen."

A long time ago, I've heard stories that the community was more about helping than hurting one another. It was more about being a team rather than who is against whom. And, I'd like to get back to that. I promise to try harder in letting you guys be part of the decision-making. But, please note, if we don't agree/take your opinion, that doesn't mean that we're not listening. I apologize if it seems like I'm belittling or talking to you guys like children. You are not children, you are adults.

Let's start to trust each other little by little and see where it takes us.

Thank you.

Perhaps it was more like that at some point but has not been like that for many, many years. It certainly is not like that now. We have some in the admin area that are awesome, then we have some, that try to spin it, try to apologize but no matter how hard they try.....there has to be a BUT attached to it. It's like standing there and apologizing to someone that you have wronged or admitting you are wrong, then turning around and saying "BUT because I perceived it this way, I'm really not wrong, but I want you to think I'm wrong so we can continue"....I think the feeling of insincerity starts to creep in.

A statement with "I apologize" has no room for a but in it. You apologize and move on, drop the but.

Sorry it's just the same ole stuff....some are listening some are not. Those that listen and want to change it are being shouted down by those that want to think they know what they are doing, when they clearly don't.

I am , like Pip , saddened by the decline of a place I was once proud to call my home on the web. This site holds nothing for me now except memories of what it once was. Chat is empty , I check often in vain in hopes that my friends will be there. They are not. The forums hold the same empty apologies with the "but" following them , nullifying the apology in truth. When you apologize you mean it and without the "buts" and the " I'm sorry if it seems". It does not seem that members were being talked down to...That is what happened. It does not seem as though veiled comments have been made like " I will be happy to delete your account " , this has indeed occurred. If you want to in some small way start to restore the relationship between Renderosity Staff and Members , then my suggestion would be to start with a genuine apology without any buts or other add-ons and then think about what you say before you say it and if it could be taken in a condescending manner. Become the people persons that a staff of a community should be and open up an honest dialogue with your Members , those that are left to listen.

I promise to try harder in letting you guys be part of the decision-making

Unless we are part of TPtB's decision making, then it won't make any difference. You can do everything in your power and it won't do a thing to fix the situation, simply because it has become clear that you and the other admins are absolutely powerless to whip TPtB into shape (which is desperately needed if this site is to survive) and get them to realize how self-destructive their Prime neutering, poorly excuted redesigns, the crappy/modest/super-short sales, and offsite freebie/MP/personal link ban (which the competition does not engage in) is.

that doesn't mean that we're not listening. I apologize if it seems like I'm belittling or talking to you guys like children.

The problem is that TPtB are not listening, and your silence (specifically lack of complaining or voiced critisicm to TPtB's decisions) suggests to us that you agree with every one of their decisions. This causes people to view you as an accomplice to the destruction of this site, and also results in them not trusting you. Admins who have kept silent or so much as voiced thinly-veiled disagreement with specific aspects of the new rule, or complained about how TPtB refuse to listen to them, are not viewed as accomplices, or at least not to the same degree. Admins like LPR who have been exponentially more helpful in answering questions are trusted more. Admins who do not post smileys or act all cheery as the site crumbles all around them, and as they get yelled at are trusted more (because this makes your smileys... look like a Walmart Greeter smile-- minus the creepy aspect, that is) Which from the looks of it you have at least stopped, and I sincerely thank you very much for that, and for listening to us about that, as for some of us it did feel a bit patronizing.

Maybe before this becomes negative again, maybe you can all read this and realise what Renderosity really means to people like me

Just 5 Minutes

Just 5 minutes may be all it is to you, But those 5 minutes can see a person through, Just 5 minutes out of your way, Can lighten a person's dark day.

Those 5 minutes mean to world to many Who barely a person they see if any 5 minutes seem so little time to give To many it's a reason to live

5 seconds is all it takes to say a friendly hello Just on passing and before you really go A few more sends to ask 'how are you??' Can really make someone feel less blue !

A little time each day to just be polite Can fill a person's heart full of light Each passing second may mean much to you But for those 5 minutes many will say thank you

There's many out there who don't realise how much those few minutes or seconds can quell loneliness or pass the time for someone each day but maybe, just maybe, you do a good deed each day without realising it By ©ScotsLass

I am ScotsLass on my poetry site, will surprise many to know I'm actually a writer as well as an Add On Maker as I don't tend to advertise this kind of stuff. That 5 minutes with friends is now gone for me here. This is what i'm trying to say and why i'm basically done because I'm sick of the fighting and the if's and's but's that run here

Hugs

Piper

Amethyst_Heart posted at 10:20AM Tue, 15 March 2016 - #4261159

Maybe before this becomes negative again, maybe you can all read this and realise what Renderosity really means to people like me

Just 5 Minutes

Just 5 minutes may be all it is to you, But those 5 minutes can see a person through, Just 5 minutes out of your way, Can lighten a person's dark day.

Those 5 minutes mean to world to many Who barely a person they see if any 5 minutes seem so little time to give To many it's a reason to live

5 seconds is all it takes to say a friendly hello Just on passing and before you really go A few more sends to ask 'how are you??' Can really make someone feel less blue !

A little time each day to just be polite Can fill a person's heart full of light Each passing second may mean much to you But for those 5 minutes many will say thank you

There's many out there who don't realise how much those few minutes or seconds can quell loneliness or pass the time for someone each day but maybe, just maybe, you do a good deed each day without realising it By ©ScotsLass

I am ScotsLass on my poetry site, will surprise many to know I'm actually a writer as well as an Add On Maker as I don't tend to advertise this kind of stuff. That 5 minutes with friends is now gone for me here. This is what i'm trying to say and why i'm basically done because I'm sick of the fighting and the if's and's but's that run here

Hugs

Piper

I felt bad enough on a personal basis at what has happened here and while I try and be positive I also know just how high the mountain between here and what I used to be like really is.

Reading your posts it is clear that the time spent in a happy place is far more important to you than it ever has been for me, and understandably so. I do hope this site turns around but in the meantime please don't give up. I found a new home at Hivewire3D, a friendly place where I have found a bunch of great people, eager to welcome everyone and a place where they can have a laugh. It may not be the place for you but it is worth a look.

I hope none of that sounds patronising, I spent a number of years as a volunteer on a crisis helpline which means I understand, as much as anyone can, just what a loss something like this can be, please do not give up thinking Rendo was the only place left where people can/were friendly.

Hornet

Nah you aren't patronising hon you just saying it as it is, I've been disabled a long time, quite a bit of that housebound. This last few months though coming on here has been sapped of joy. I met my fiance, soon to be husband at Renderosity. Like you though I probably will head to there as well looking for a new home.

Not just about happy though, whether you were in mood to talk or not, having a bad day in pain, hearing the sounds in chat were sometimes just enough to let you know another person about, somebody cared enough to check you were ok, that you could join in or idle, it was still a place you just knew existed there for you.

Time for thoughts from a lot of quarters as I said, there are many more out there just like me who relied a lot more on this place than we ever said.

Hugs

Piper

I agree Pip...and I feel the same.

Whenever I apologize, there are no "buts." I'm apologizing because it needs to be said. How about admitting that I was wrong for not involving you guys more? Sure - answering questions and commenting more would have been good, but I just felt that whenever I answered a question/commented, 3 people would come at me and bash me. In order to fix things, you need someone saying I WILL DO MY VERY BEST TO SEE THAT THESE PROBLEMS/ISSUES ARE ADDRESSED. I'm not going to sound patronizing, rude or ignorant because that's not who I am. Reading text is extremely hard to interrupt. I mean, the reason why I added in smiley faces wasn't because I was trying to be "cheery" or trying to sound "patronizing," it was because I was trying to sound nice and frinedly, but unfortunately, it had the opposite effect.

I'm still doing my best to try and fix this community, but it will take time, trust and some serious re-building. But, since I KNOW you guys love this community - as do I - so I'm going to do my best to address your concerns.

So, firstly, I hear the forums aren't easy to use. Can someone please provide me with an example so I can address this?

Also, what about the gallery? What are the issues with that?

Anything wrong with the tutorials?

Do you want to see more challenges, contests, activities in the forum? We have a survey we've implemented. When you get a sec, please take it below:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/survey/index.php?Ques=164

@IceEmpress There is a reason why I have been answering the questions I put my hand up to do this and I am glad I have built up some trust with you, I do try my best and like to work with the members not against them. I might not say much but that is because I am not into pulling stuff out of thin air as it would be unhelpful and some things are out of my control. However since honesty has been mentioned I feel I should point out there is a reason why most of the staff(Mods and Coords) have remained silent. This is because when the members got upset at the start of all this I could see no point whatsoever in the staff getting involved in something they did not implement, they may or may not agree with, being vendors or content creators that possibly shared their freebies may have been affected directly by the changes themselves and at the end of the day have to administer the rules. Taking this into consideration it was hardly fair to have them feel obliged to participate or be put in the position to have to even consider taking sides. I put that forward and did not hesitate in doing so since the staff have had friends here for years and when emotions run high things happen and can get out of control and it would be a shame to see fractured friendships over this when neither party are at fault. The staff were not instructed rather given the opportunity to refrain from commenting. Obviously due to the lack of comments by them throughout this issue the members can be confident their silence is because they don't want to fight with you and they signed up to assist the members, work with and get along well with everybody as best as possible in the community. IMO they all chose the right path.

ok I'll bite

"So, firstly, I hear the forums aren't easy to use. Can someone please provide me with an example so I can address this?"

first up, this editor based on markdown. a DEAD language which is full of bugs. get rid of it and get a proper editor - we had one remember? apart from no cut and paste in firefox, it worked fine. now, this thing is buggy for even basic text. and who wants to revert to the late 1980s and learn to layout ala Wordstar to do say Bold when everyone else uses WYSIWGY (what you see is what you get - an industry standard!) even when you DO attempt to use markdown.. it fails! (not even bothered to try and use it since I get piss poor results everytime. If I'd bought this, I'd be demanding my money back.)

second, the hidden options. want to change forums you want to see in your list? used to be 2 clicks. now you hunt for 5 minutes through several option screens. this also goes for several other options. a user does not want to hunt for this stuff. user options should be easy to find and not spread over several pages. clue - if you need a Wiki to tell us how to use the site, you've failed in the design.

thirdly, the ongoing emails problem. notifications not working. this is causing a lot of annoyance and it's been going on for nearly 2 years. fire the programmer and get someone competent.

fourthly, uneven application of the TOS. stay within the TOS and say something that is not liked, get a warning. hmm was within the |TOS here... also one case of a user being IP banned without warning., the TOS states warnings will be given! but in the new regeime, it seems to be punish the users you want to keep. not good at all.

fithly, the HUGE whitebar wasting space on every page. oh you say, it's for... hang on. right now, mine says Forum Stats, Mark All Read and Start Thread. all options else where on the screen! why do I need this bar? answer... not needed.

we can carry on.... but, this has been said over and over and over and over Hope. this is NOT NEW. you've BEEN TOLD all this before. but it's worth a try to see if you do anything this time.

oh number Six

get an android device and try the site on that. if you can't find faults in 30 seconds, then oh gawd...

"Whenever I apologize, there are no "buts." I'm apologizing because it needs to be said."

Hi Pip- Yes, relationships are about give/take. I completely agree with you. And, it seems as if we're making rules and not asking for your opinion. For that, I apologize. From now on, I promise to involve you guys more often than I had. But,..........

Yes, you do add a BUT to your apologies, it's been a habit since day one. There it is, in your first post, the excuses started flowing. Just own up to it. "I'm sorry I will try my best not to do that anymore"

This may seem like a petty, piddly thing to you, however, I can assure you it is not. Otherwise it would not be brought up again and again and again.

There is probably nothing you can do about the Prime club, that horse is dead, the damage has been done. It should have been taken care of a long, long time ago, wait, no it should have never happened, but it did. While TPTB may think that that has all died down and things are all hunky dory over it, it's not, we've just started spending our money elsewhere, because the Prime Club no longer holds any type of competition against normally priced products elsewhere for the most part. I'm still very angry about it and believe it or not, so are a LOT of other Prime Members, as you all will find out as membership to that drops off as well.

Anyway, good luck Hope, I think there is a learning curve, and I truly wish that you would seek out and listen to those admins that have successful relationships with the community, this is something you are not going to learn on your own.

Khai-J-Bach posted at 3:30PM Tue, 15 March 2016 - #4261229

ok I'll bite

"So, firstly, I hear the forums aren't easy to use. Can someone please provide me with an example so I can address this?"

first up, this editor based on markdown. a DEAD language which is full of bugs. get rid of it and get a proper editor - we had one remember? apart from no cut and paste in firefox, it worked fine. now, this thing is buggy for even basic text. and who wants to revert to the late 1980s and learn to layout ala Wordstar to do say Bold when everyone else uses WYSIWGY (what you see is what you get - an industry standard!) even when you DO attempt to use markdown.. it fails! (not even bothered to try and use it since I get piss poor results everytime. If I'd bought this, I'd be demanding my money back.)

second, the hidden options. want to change forums you want to see in your list? used to be 2 clicks. now you hunt for 5 minutes through several option screens. this also goes for several other options. a user does not want to hunt for this stuff. user options should be easy to find and not spread over several pages. clue - if you need a Wiki to tell us how to use the site, you've failed in the design.

thirdly, the ongoing emails problem. notifications not working. this is causing a lot of annoyance and it's been going on for nearly 2 years. fire the programmer and get someone competent.

fourthly, uneven application of the TOS. stay within the TOS and say something that is not liked, get a warning. hmm was within the |TOS here... also one case of a user being IP banned without warning., the TOS states warnings will be given! but in the new regeime, it seems to be punish the users you want to keep. not good at all.

fithly, the HUGE whitebar wasting space on every page. oh you say, it's for... hang on. right now, mine says Forum Stats, Mark All Read and Start Thread. all options else where on the screen! why do I need this bar? answer... not needed.

we can carry on.... but, this has been said over and over and over and over Hope. this is NOT NEW. you've BEEN TOLD all this before. but it's worth a try to see if you do anything this time.

1. I told you I'd look into this to see what I can do.
2. All you have to do is click on your avatar, go to 'settings,' then you'll see 'forums.' From there, you'll see this below:
3. Are you referring to the e-bots or something else? If not, please let me know.
4. We have to do a better job in stating why something is removed. And, we will.
5. What else do you suggest we put there? If you'd like to be involved, I need more feedback and suggestions so I can bring these to the team to discuss. I value your opinion and would like to know your ideas.
6. I'll have to see this android issue. Let me look into it.

Thank you everyone.

All you have to do is click on your avatar, go to 'settings,' then you'll see 'forums.' From there, you'll see this below:

you missed this, it was before you joined.

it used to be to hide the forum? click on the little - next to the forum name

to show it? click "forum options" next to the words "Forum list" and theres the list.

so. how to a user, is the new system any better?

first you've had to tell me where the settings are! clicking on an avatar? could you hide that any better? whats telling the user this is where the settings are? nothing. we had to ask.

think about that.

and the rest lets see

"Are you referring to the e-bots or something else? If not, please let me know." erm, yes. ongoing for 2 years

"What else do you suggest we put there? If you'd like to be involved, I need more feedback and suggestions so I can bring these to the team to discuss. I value your opinion and would like to know your ideas."

how about.. nothing? it's redundant. it just takes up screen space while doing nothing.

all I'm doing btw is applying logic to the site. it's easy to see where the design problems are and how the current site is not intuative to a user. eg the avatar settings button. or the huge amounts of wasted space to things like that white bar. etc.

I can see how you're saying it's confusing. It can be to first-time users who have NO idea that it was there in the first place. Hm.... the reason why I created a tutorial when this site launched was to help members get used to the new site and learn how to use it. Was it not effective? Did it not work? Was it not helpful? I'd just like to know.

E-bots : Let me be honest with you on this one. This is what I've been told : We've been having SERIOUS issues with Microsoft, whether it's hotmail, live.com, MSN, outlook, and AOL. Since we're sending out so many notifications, it seems they get blocked by those outlets. Or, if people have us whitelisted, they won't come through. So, be sure not to whitelist Renderosity.com. For e-mail outlets like gmail, we have no issues. If so, please do let me know.

Well, where should we place the forum stats and Start Thread and Mark all read buttons?

the problem is, you needed to make a tutorial.. also calling it Wiki did'nt help there...

as to the buttons. well.... forum stats. why? I hit that and I get my stats. for what reason? I don't need that information. sure it looks pretty but it's acutally no use whatsoever. the start thread? above the threads where it used to be in each forum, in the table header. works for every other forum just there. same for mark all read. this is the only forum setup I've seen with them floating and following the user round.

Yeah, you're right in stating about the tutorial. At the time, I wasn't sure what other way I could show you guys how to use the site. I'm not really sure why we named it "wiki." Sorry about that.

The forum stats are helpful to the staff members looking for certain posts. When a member is behaving badly, we need to grab the thread and present to them how they violated the TOS. And, I'll see about why we have the Mark all read and Start Thread are sitting there. We have a weekly meeting next week. I'll bring these up in the meeting and let you know what we decide. Thanks, Khai.

I'll make a list.

I added in smiley faces wasn't because I was trying to be "cheery" or trying to sound "patronizing," it was because I was trying to sound nice and frinedly, but unfortunately, it had the opposite effect.

I see. The problem is that it came across as a friendly smile, or alternatively, the "help desk smile" (you know, the one the employer tells you you have to give everyone), or worst, the Walmart greeter smile minus some of the creepiness. Combine this with very corporate-type responses or posts in threads, which makes for a very impersonal response, esp. when it sounds like one of those automated email responses you tend to get when you contact a large company about something. It came across as disingenuous at best, patronizing at worst, because, well-- people don't naturally smile when they open the door to a wall of high velocity flames or when the place is crumbling all around them.

I take blame for only now bringing the "it feels impersonal" point. With all the yapping and being a broken record that I've done since last summer, you'd think that I would have thought about that while posting just once.

I'm still doing my best to try and fix this community, but it will take time, trust and some serious re-building. But, since I KNOW you guys love this community - as do I - so I'm going to do my best to address your concerns.

The problem is, that your best may be futile, as many of the complaints are in regards to things that either TPtB have the final say in, or something that is entirely up to them. And I apologize if my statement in this regards in the previous post came off as hostile. It was more out of bitterness, though admittedly there was SOME hostility there (but not towards you or the other forum admins)

So, firstly, I hear the forums aren't easy to use. Can someone please provide me with an example so I can address this?

Mostly due to the markdown language-- I can never remember which punctuation does what, and clicking the tabs often inserts a space in between the punctuation mark and either the beginning or ending of the text, so that you have to go back and edit out the space. Then there are those of us who like to use those floor hashes and asterisks, but unfortunately we can't, so it makes bullet points difficult to make. This is one of those examples of things that are completely out of your control-- unless you and the other admins can somehow convince TPtB that Markdown is a really crappy language.

Also, what about the gallery? What are the issues with that?

I can't speak about any other issues, but the most common problem is that the search function on the gallery, just like the MP and freestuff searches, sucks. I'm not going to bother giving you examples since other people have done it within the past few months, and I'm too lazy right now.

I am honestly not trying to plug another site but trying to be positive. Have a look at the Hivewire3D forums, options to like a post, add multiple quotes, ebots that work alerts so you can see updates when you are in the forums, I could go on (and usually do). The HW team had the misfortune to have the previous forum hacked and so, on the plus side, an opportunity to build something designed for purpose. I am not saying it is perfect or that Rendo should do the same but it does have a some neat features that would improve matter here.

LPR001 posted at 10:50AM Wed, 16 March 2016 - #4261226

@IceEmpress There is a reason why I have been answering the questions I put my hand up to do this and I am glad I have built up some trust with you, I do try my best and like to work with the members not against them. I might not say much but that is because I am not into pulling stuff out of thin air as it would be unhelpful and some things are out of my control. However since honesty has been mentioned I feel I should point out there is a reason why most of the staff(Mods and Coords) have remained silent. This is because when the members got upset at the start of all this I could see no point whatsoever in the staff getting involved in something they did not implement, they may or may not agree with, being vendors or content creators that possibly shared their freebies may have been affected directly by the changes themselves and at the end of the day have to administer the rules. Taking this into consideration it was hardly fair to have them feel obliged to participate or be put in the position to have to even consider taking sides. I put that forward and did not hesitate in doing so since the staff have had friends here for years and when emotions run high things happen and can get out of control and it would be a shame to see fractured friendships over this when neither party are at fault. The staff were not instructed rather given the opportunity to refrain from commenting. Obviously due to the lack of comments by them throughout this issue the members can be confident their silence is because they don't want to fight with you and they signed up to assist the members, work with and get along well with everybody as best as possible in the community. IMO they all chose the right path.

Well it confirms my belief in that I never once thought it was anyone's fault than the higher management. In fact one of the worse responses I saw in the prime forums came from higher management, I can't member the name so that shows how much I think it added to the debate. The individual quickly return to obscurity, as far as the forums were concern, which dies show some good judgement.

I have always felt sorry for the moderators here as I felt they were between a rock and a hard place. As I have said before I dealt with Hope when I was deleting my gallery here and she tried to change my mind the fact she did not succeed was because the decision that upset me was clearly a corporate decision, not her's. What she did convince me was that she was very genuine in her wish to change things for the better and someone I learnt to trust and still do.

On the whole I did not blame the moderators or the vendors although I do remember posting that one vendors comments were totally out of order but even there I accepted it was probable a symptom of all that was happening at the time and in more normal circumstances she would not have posted anything like she had.

I really do wish we could put this all behind us and get everyone to realise that no matter how hard you try you cannot change where you have been, much better to concentrate on where you are going. Frustratingly I do not know how to make that happen and the longer we continue to look into the past the longer we are going to stay there.

Amethyst_Heart posted at 11:04AM Wed, 16 March 2016 - #4261165

Hornet

Nah you aren't patronising hon you just saying it as it is, I've been disabled a long time, quite a bit of that housebound. This last few months though coming on here has been sapped of joy. I met my fiance, soon to be husband at Renderosity. Like you though I probably will head to there as well looking for a new home.

Not just about happy though, whether you were in mood to talk or not, having a bad day in pain, hearing the sounds in chat were sometimes just enough to let you know another person about, somebody cared enough to check you were ok, that you could join in or idle, it was still a place you just knew existed there for you.

Time for thoughts from a lot of quarters as I said, there are many more out there just like me who relied a lot more on this place than we ever said.

Hugs

Piper

The fact that you met your future husband here must make Renderosity even more special to you, I am glad that you met though. All the best for the future.

I think most of the people I spoke to during my years as a volunteer were either housebound, very lonely or both. I learnt very quickly just how much impact simple call could have, the start of the call was often dark and difficult but many ended at least a little more upbeat and less dark. I was never ceased to be amazed by how some people could cope with a range of problems when I would not know where to begin to cope with just some of their problems.

I can only begin to imagine just how much forums mean to you but I do have some insight and it opened my eyes to the fact that, while the changes here dismayed me it had a much bigger impact on others. Seems a silly thing to say but sat here in solitude using some software to create our own world, if only briefly, it is easy to forget that for others, their worlds are very different.

I sincerely hope you find somewhere, anywhere, to replace what you have lost here at Rendo.

"Have a look at the Hivewire3D forums, options to like a post, add multiple quotes, ebots that work alerts so you can see updates when you are in the forums, I could go on (and usually do)."

I wouldn't hold out for any real improvements to the way that this site works. Renderosity is a subsidiary of Bondware. That being the case you would think that Renderosity would be a shining example of what the Bondware company can produce rather than the sub standard mess that it is.

Bondwares Values: "We conduct business with honesty and integrity. We believe in the "Golden Rule" (treat others as you want to be treated). We believe that work should be challenging and fun."

Using this forum software certainly feels like work and they are not wrong about it being challenging.

Well, I'll need to do some research anyway, so thank you for the suggestions.

Letting go of the past seems to be a huge thing here. I don't fully understand how things were previously, but I've heard plenty of stories. All I'm trying to do is get us back there little-by-little. I just need everyone to work with me - like I need to work with you too. I know how much you guys love it here. It's a special place to go when you have no one and I get that. That's why I feel as if I need to bring the sense of community back and own up to the mistakes I've made.

I appreciate you guys giving me another shot to do what you'd like me to do - fight to bring this community back.

Wow, the lack of common sense here by some is just....amazing. Even when told what the problems are, this person just continues to argue the idiocy of the changes. Incredible. Just f-ing incredible. A tutorial? To use a website?? What? That's just the most insane, silly thing I've ever heard. And people wonder why a lot are leaving? Well, I guess if ya haven't gotten it by now, there's no point in continuing to try to spell it out for all of you.

Laurie

All I know is chat has been kind of empty lately and that's making me sad. The one time I try to get back to chatting and it's dead.

hornet3d posted at 5:38PM Wed, 16 March 2016 - #4261346

Well it confirms my belief in that I never once thought it was anyone's fault than the higher management. In fact one of the worse responses I saw in the prime forums came from higher management, I can't member the name so that shows how much I think it added to the debate. The individual quickly return to obscurity, as far as the forums were concern, which dies show some good judgement.

The short appearance from higher management was the Rendo V.P. (First Name?) Lemon. His resume is very interesting (Specialties: Web-Design, Programming, etc). It is worth to Google it. Supposed to be on Facebook as well. He became very active during the Prime change. I received permission from him to get my membership fee back. Then he disappeared and was never heard from again.

Ok I said I was not going to do this , I said I was going to stay out of the forums and just let whatever happens to this place happen and when it closes drink a cold one and weep a sad sad loss. However I care about this place more than even I care to admit and I have found myself drawn back here watching the fallout and just hoping against hope things somehow resolve themselves and the community I love will some day return. So I am going to offer some thoughts on how to help that happen. I mean no disrespect and everything I share is meant to HELP not hinder anyone. So here goes :

1. Repair the relationship between staff and members. This has to happen first and at this point will be no easy task.

2. Open up an honest dialogue where you ask and really want to hear your community give you suggestions and feedback on what they would like to see in THEIR community. Yes , it is their community , many have been here longer than some of the current staff and every member is a customer . If they were not here , the staff would not be either , without members the site closes and no one has jobs ( no one wants that right ?).

3. DO NOT lock threads with valid points still being discussed. It does not matter if YOU think it is productive , if it does not break the T.O.S it should remain as perhaps people are working through their frustrations and feelings by doing something healthy..TALKING ! Locking the threads when there is no violation only shows that you , the staff have decided that the conversation is not relevant and this is a dangerous assumption to make. You are dealing with very real people here , and their feelings MUST always be considered. Figuring out what they need and what they want and then making adjustments is how a community stays afloat. Not to say that the staff should jump at every single whim , but if there are enough members behind a request perhaps it is time to consider it .

4. Veiled rudeness , Not answering site mails , T.O.S not being followed by the staff itself ( not everyone by any means but it has and is happening ) and generally not listening when a member is distraught, are some of the main reasons people are not connecting with staff. If you have a set of rules ( The T.O.S ) you must as staff and representatives of this Community , first and foremost and at all times follow this T.O.S . That includes the steps taken when the T.O.S is violated . We must ALL follow the rules if the rules are to be the law of the land.

5. Updates to the forum and Galleries as Khai mentioned are a necessity. The search is broken and has been in the Gallery , the forum is outdated in it language and is clunky. The Gallery has tons of options but half of them don't work right or don't do what you would think. I won't go into lengths about it yet , but maybe we can have an open discussion about how to improve forums and gallery with its own topic.

6. Never in my life have I been to a website where I needed a tutorial to navigate it. That is not efficient and it is counter productive to what I would think is the staff's mission to attract new members and keep the ones you have. You want the site to be just as easy for your first time users as your seasoned veterans.

And finally my last point and I do hope that as Community manager , Hope , that you listen and really hear what I am saying here....

1. We are ALL human beings , with feelings , dreams and emotions. This mess of a battle between staff and members seems to be making many of us in frustration , desperation or just a real need to be heard , forget this. As Staff...you must remember this first and foremost and bring that realization into the bright light of day. You must take the first step BUT you must be genuine in this and THEN everyone else will follow , I am sure they would be glad to if they felt that the Staff here were being genuine and were making this their priority.

In closing , in the days since this began I have seen and heard a lot of things I find disturbing and also was reminded why I love this place so much...the members . I have watched as long standing members were dismissed without warning . I have watched as members voiced concerns and received in response " I will be happy to delete your account". I have watched as members were talked down to and made to feel small by the very people who are supposed to be creating and maintaining a positive and productive site. This was done in a subversive manner but even a blind man could see it , your members are not stupid , and those who are displaying this behavior may think that it is suttle enough not to be noticed or that the members here are fools...We are not. I have seen such a huge passion for this place and a love for it . They fight , they yell , they go toe to toe with you...because they LOVE this Community. It is more than just a site , it is a second home, and many are defending it passionately as they watch it seemingly slip through their fingers. When you back someone into a corner they will fight and those who are not too tired to voice an arguement are doing just that. I can , on the flip side see where some of you on Staff are also backed into a corner by those who have the power above you and how frustrating that must be. In the end however , you took this job and therefore you must face this head on , you will only win if you do this hand in hand with the people you are here because of ...The Members.

@hornet3d It is not about fault, the country I am from all my life the upper management make the major decisions. My only concern is the staff, vendors and the members since they are the people I have to work with on a daily basis and I don't want to see any of them come under fire. I do not find anything particularly wrong with the comment I was refering to just from my own observation and fear of the "staff silence" being used as a point of reference and could be misunderstood as some sort of approval or guilt of the changes as it does skirt around the edges and leave that impression. I realize my comment could be seen as there are 10 people in the room I can confirm that 9 of them were nowhere in sight when this happened therefore number 10 is by process of elimination "busted" since there was no other way it could be said. Now some members might see this as Johnny did it for the 9, others may take it as ........did Johnny just throw No.10 under a bus?. I did it for the 9 however I am not fussy what slant is taken on my comment providing I am not in correspondence with a member for fighting with a staff member for something they didn't play a part in when it was totally avoidable. For the record No.10 is covered by the same TOS here as with anything that happens on the forums

In a general observation - Looking at the path this thread appears to going. The best advice I can give is head in another direction and quickly. As hornet3d has mentioned going back to the past won't help things. The issues raised previously are already noted.

LPR001 posted at 8:11AM Thu, 17 March 2016 - #4261451

@hornet3d It is not about fault, the country I am from all my life the upper management make the major decisions. My only concern is the staff, vendors and the members since they are the people I have to work with on a daily basis and I don't want to see any of them come under fire. I do not find anything particularly wrong with the comment I was refering to just from my own observation and fear of the "staff silence" being used as a point of reference and could be misunderstood as some sort of approval or guilt of the changes as it does skirt around the edges and leave that impression. I realize my comment could be seen as there are 10 people in the room I can confirm that 9 of them were nowhere in sight when this happened therefore number 10 is by process of elimination "busted" since there was no other way it could be said. Now some members might see this as Johnny did it for the 9, others may take it as ........did Johnny just throw No.10 under a bus?. I did it for the 9 however I am not fussy what slant is taken on my comment providing I am not in correspondence with a member for fighting with a staff member for something they didn't play a part in when it was totally avoidable. For the record No.10 is covered by the same TOS here as with anything that happens on the forums

In a general observation - Looking at the path this thread appears to going. The best advice I can give is head in another direction and quickly. As hornet3d has mentioned going back to the past won't help things. The issues raised previously are already noted.

I apologise in that I did not make it clear what I was trying to say and I made an error in using the word 'fault'. The point I was trying to make is that I have never, as far as I am aware, had a fight with any member of staff and I certainly don't feel trying to find someone to blame is a productive use of anyone's time. If that was what was read into my words, again I am sorry, it was not my intent and it goes against the point I was trying to make at the end of my post.

I am really past caring about how we got to this point and the only way forward is to find some agreement about where we actually are and then plot a path to somewhere better. Anyone who has read my posts over past year or so will know I have been highly critical of the "Decisions" made here but they were made, there has to be a time to let go and move on. My personal view is we are way past that point.

Sub point I used quotes around decisions to highlight it, I would have used italics but italics doesn't work.

@hornet3D I am not having issues with what you have said and have had no problems with your comments throughout the threads during this ongoing issue I have only seen one sentence of yours that concerned me a little but since I did not take it up it is lost in the past where it will and should remain. Sure you are not happy but IMO you have been reasonable about it all and considering you have been very active since the start I think your record speaks for itself. I totally agree with the "plot a path and move forward" concept as we are chugging along at a snail's pace. I am willing to work with any member who is genuine and wants to resolve this and they will receive my full support.

Perhaps I should have been a little clearer too so just to make sure, My general at the bottom of my comment is not aimed at you it is there because since our exchange and the reason I felt the need to respond in the first place was simply because I saw the word fault and I had a feeling of deja vu creeping in which tbh become a reality before I even hit add comment........... You gotta be quick around here.

PS I have to use quotes as well. Correct me if I am wrong but the italics used to work? I think the bold is hit and miss too I believe you can use it once and then it fails and you just end up with the markup language instead which I guess highlights it still.

LPR001 posted at 1:25PM Thu, 17 March 2016 - #4261478

@hornet3D I am not having issues with what you have said and have had no problems with your comments throughout the threads during this ongoing issue I have only seen one sentence of yours that concerned me a little but since I did not take it up it is lost in the past where it will and should remain. Sure you are not happy but IMO you have been reasonable about it all and considering you have been very active since the start I think your record speaks for itself. I totally agree with the "plot a path and move forward" concept as we are chugging along at a snail's pace. I am willing to work with any member who is genuine and wants to resolve this and they will receive my full support.

Perhaps I should have been a little clearer too so just to make sure, My general at the bottom of my comment is not aimed at you it is there because since our exchange and the reason I felt the need to respond in the first place was simply because I saw the word fault and I had a feeling of deja vu creeping in which tbh become a reality before I even hit add comment........... You gotta be quick around here.

PS I have to use quotes as well. Correct me if I am wrong but the italics used to work? I think the bold is hit and miss too I believe you can use it once and then it fails and you just end up with the markup language instead which I guess highlights it still.

I just wanted to make myself clear and I am not always good at getting what I want to say on to the page, much that same as my art I guess. Not an excuse but I had the added problem that my doctor had changed my medication to help me lose weight, what she didn't say was it works because it make you feel so ill you do not feel like eating. I have difficulty concentrating at the best of time so the meds don't help.

Main thing is there was no harm done, I would like to be part of the solution, if possible, not part of the problem.

I suggest we move the forum problems to a new thread.. there's a real discussion there, which I hope those above Hope will listen to. (no, not moaning but how to fix the problems we're having)

@hornet3D There most certainly is no harm done at all and don't worry they deliver my medication in a truck so not only do I have to read everything members put here 3 times to make sure I have it right, I then have to read and modify my own comments numerous times then finally check I am actually on the Renderosity website before I click that add comment button. That is why Renderosity can only afford for me to go in a straight line coz if I have to go in circles the members will only hear from me once a week. Look forward to working with you on improving the place.

@Khai-J-Bach If you wish start a 'Forum Fixes' thread and we will ensure it stays on topic

Can we have a Gallery Improvements one too ? I think there is some real progress to be made there.

@OonaTheWild You can start the thread Oona same deal it will have to remain on topic and be constructive. The suggestions can be reviewed and of course if they have merit and can be implemented that will be something Hope can put forward and discuss with management.

There has already been a suggestion by a member regarding the writers gallery that I have discussed with Hope already and part way into some solutions I will bring that over so we don't double up.

hopeandlove posted at 12:32PM Sun, 20 March 2016 - #4261255

E-bots : Let me be honest with you on this one. This is what I've been told : We've been having SERIOUS issues with Microsoft, whether it's hotmail, live.com, MSN, outlook, and AOL. Since we're sending out so many notifications, it seems they get blocked by those outlets. Or, if people have us whitelisted, they won't come through. So, be sure not to whitelist Renderosity.com. For e-mail outlets like gmail, we have no issues. If so, please do let me know.

I am a member of about 20 forums, and not one of them has this problem with notifications. What makes Rendorosity different?

keppel posted at 12:30PM Sun, 20 March 2016 - #4261350

I wouldn't hold out for any real improvements to the way that this site works. Renderosity is a subsidiary of Bondware. That being the case you would think that Renderosity would be a shining example of what the Bondware company can produce rather than the sub standard mess that it is.

What I find hilarious is that when this site started, (back when it was Poser Forum Online,) it was to show off what great forum software it was. At this point, it is the worst forum software that I've seen in the 18 years I've been online. It's virtually unusable.

LaurieA posted at 12:29PM Sun, 20 March 2016 - #4261380

Wow, the lack of common sense here by some is just....amazing. Even when told what the problems are, this person just continues to argue the idiocy of the changes. Incredible. Just f-ing incredible. A tutorial? To use a website?? What? That's just the most insane, silly thing I've ever heard. And people wonder why a lot are leaving? Well, I guess if ya haven't gotten it by now, there's no point in continuing to try to spell it out for all of you.

Laurie

Exactly.

Thanks to the folks on the staff who are still willing to help out, and to the members; unfortunately, the staff are stuck in the perpetual role of damage control as it's not they who make the decisions as much as the ones who have to facilitate and enforce them, they can only do so much, unfortunately, they don't make the rules nor the final decisions of the direction of this site, as they have to follow the parent company's mandates/direction and at most, voice our concerns and suggestions on our behaf...

They can and do however, try and help the members by facilitate changes for the members that they are able, as much as it is in their power to do so...I would imagine that if the current staff were the CEO of the parent company, things would run much differently for the better...The reality of the situation is that this site has been steadily losing visitors/traffic ranking both to the new direction, due to changes in the 3D hobbyist market and the response to that direction from the members especially, the long standing ones...

So in effect, the significant Exodus of members has been much more damaging to this site than they know due to it having a detrimental effect for site traffic, which in turn, effects the revenue to keep the site running...

As, a new staff member (Poser Coord.) a long time vendor and an even longer time member, I want to reach out to ALL members, I am usually quiet because I do not like conflict. I tend to sit in the background, and at times sadly, when seeing how there has become a divide. I want to do my part to help mend that divide. Please feel free to contact me via site mail, no matter your concern, or even if you just want a friend. I may not respond back right away, but I will respond back within 24 hours. If I cannot help, I will find someone who can.

SpookieLilOne posted at 1:42AM Sat, 16 April 2016 - #4262128

As, a new staff member (Poser Coord.) a long time vendor and an even longer time member, I want to reach out to ALL members, I am usually quiet because I do not like conflict. I tend to sit in the background, and at times sadly, when seeing how there has become a divide. I want to do my part to help mend that divide. Please feel free to contact me via site mail, no matter your concern, or even if you just want a friend. I may not respond back right away, but I will respond back within 24 hours. If I cannot help, I will find someone who can.

Congrats SpookieLilOne on your new job! I mentioned in a previous post in another thread that they should hire long time members or vendors as staff because they will truly be able to understand the community. Maybe someone is listening! If anyone can be instrumental in turning things around, it could be you. It's a good sign that they are hiring community insiders as staff :)

What I do not get is, where are the people you guys report to ? Who actually is in charge of this Site and has the power to make changes. All good and well to tell us * I shall pass it on * and add a big smilie face behind that sentence. Nothing is happening and the people who NEED to hear us are not listening.

Wonderland posted at 3:40PM Sat, 16 April 2016 - #4265777

SpookieLilOne posted at 1:42AM Sat, 16 April 2016 - #4262128

As, a new staff member (Poser Coord.) a long time vendor and an even longer time member, I want to reach out to ALL members, I am usually quiet because I do not like conflict. I tend to sit in the background, and at times sadly, when seeing how there has become a divide. I want to do my part to help mend that divide. Please feel free to contact me via site mail, no matter your concern, or even if you just want a friend. I may not respond back right away, but I will respond back within 24 hours. If I cannot help, I will find someone who can.

Congrats SpookieLilOne on your new job! I mentioned in a previous post in another thread that they should hire long time members or vendors as staff because they will truly be able to understand the community. Maybe someone is listening! If anyone can be instrumental in turning things around, it could be you. It's a good sign that they are hiring community insiders as staff :) Thanks, I do my best

Hi SpookieLilOne, I am writing to you because I don't know my way around the forums that much and was hoping you might point me in the right direction. I am just a hobbyist with Poser and I need to develop characters which are currently beyond my abilities. I would like to hire someone, preferably the in South Florida area, who can develop these assets for me (historical figures and costumes). I guess it is a "Help Wanted" but I did not know where to post or if it was even permissible. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me. Thanks.

Posts looking to hire someone can be posted in the Jobs/Resumes Forum, or sometimes they can be posted in this forum as the Jobs forum doesn't get a lot of traffic.

flsurfer posted at 11:14AM Mon, 18 April 2016 - #4266083

Hi SpookieLilOne, I am writing to you because I don't know my way around the forums that much and was hoping you might point me in the right direction. I am just a hobbyist with Poser and I need to develop characters which are currently beyond my abilities. I would like to hire someone, preferably the in South Florida area, who can develop these assets for me (historical figures and costumes). I guess it is a "Help Wanted" but I did not know where to post or if it was even permissible. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me. Thanks.

I would recommend what Jeff said as well. I also posted my job needed type post on my facebook wall and made it public :)

Went to the 'Jobs/Resumes Forum' as suggested but it looks like a bad link; nothing there.

Is there another place I can try getting in touch with poser artists ?