I've often wondered how people arrive at the price of a model they've made for Poser and DS. I look at the models for sale at Rendo, DAZ, Hivewire, and even CP and they're all about equally priced, but then you go to someplace like Turbosquid and you wonder if those people are sane when you see the prices they're trying to charge. Is there something I'm missing? Are the Turbosquid models superior in some way I'm not familiar with?

Excellent question. I've often wondered the same thing. Who would buy a model for several hundred dollars when a model for less than a hundred may be available.

here's the thing, it's more a matter of what the market will bare. Turbosquid sells primarily to the "professional" or "student" market and is, therefore considered to be charging "professional" prices. Poser is considered a "Hobby" community and therefore charges "hobbyist" prices. In fact as far as quality and work the pricing should be mush more equal or even reverses. Poser items usually include multiple textures, morphs and rigging, all time consuming work. Meanwhile many of the models found on Turbosquid and similar sites are usually sold without rigging, morphs or textures and are priced 3 or 4 times higher.

the above is my personal opinion it is not meant to offend any individual or group.

Guesswork, is what it comes down to. You look at what others are asking for a similar model, take into account any other factors such as moving parts, level of detail, accuracy, colour/material options and so forth.

Also, if you're not well established as a model maker, it's a good idea to reduce your price a little to encourage sales. Someone with a track record can most likely charge a higher price than Mr Nobody with one product for sale.

As an aside, good to see you, Doc. Missed your wit and wisdom here.

Pricing also has a lot to do with licensing. Most of the Poser/DS content has very restricted licensing - basically you can use it for your own (2D) renders, but if you want to use it in a game or some other manner you would have to find out if the licensing allows for it (which most of the time it does not) or buy extended licensing, if it's available. TS licensing allows for use in games, 3D printing and other media formats for most of the content they sell. Back in the early days Poser models sold for much higher - similar to the average TS prices today. But certain content providers started cutting the prices down to practically nothing in order to attract more users and establish a dominance in the market early on, since there wasn't much competition back then and some could afford to offer their content for pennies. So over time that has pushed the expected prices of Poser content down to what it is today. The trade-off being that the licensing is much more restrictive than higher-end content.

AmbientShade posted at 7:46AM Wed, 01 February 2017 - #4296306

Pricing also has a lot to do with licensing. Most of the Poser/DS content has very restricted licensing - basically you can use it for your own (2D) renders, but if you want to use it in a game or some other manner you would have to find out if the licensing allows for it (which most of the time it does not) or buy extended licensing, if it's available. TS licensing allows for use in games, 3D printing and other media formats for most of the content they sell. Back in the early days Poser models sold for much higher - similar to the average TS prices today. But certain content providers started cutting the prices down to practically nothing in order to attract more users and establish a dominance in the market early on, since there wasn't much competition back then and some could afford to offer their content for pennies. So over time that has pushed the expected prices of Poser content down to what it is today. The trade-off being that the licensing is much more restrictive than higher-end content.

You make a good point. I got out of texturing because the work involved for the reward was nonsensical, added to which, the prevalence of Merchant Resource kits effectively killed the market. Anyone with Photoshop can put a "new" texture together in 30 minutes but the end user doesn't see or understand the difference between doing it Old School or using a kit.

Extended Licensing is definitely something I'll be going for in future, since it offers more scope for sales and potential revenue.

To be honest, I thought most of the licensing was dictated primarily by the stores, and the vendors just went along thinking the stores not only knew better but were looking out for their interest.

The store offers advice on pricing but it's the vendor who decides.

Some stores have mimumium vendor pricing, usually a model based on filesize, what the product is and what amount of stuff is included. Sometimes that doesn't give the seller much wriggle room, which is why sellers have to spilt products into two or more packs, even if they wanted to bung it all in one.

Theres also the seller cut to consider, 50% for store and seller is a typical average. Do a joint project, or say charge 10% for texturing/rigging something, you could find your "cut" isn't dollars but cents. If that product gets included in a sale/clearenced etc, that can be as low as 5-7c per sale.

Obviously no one can exist on that, which is why many poser creators don't do this for the money. But for the fun of playing shopkeeper or getting some store credit.

Nothing wrong with that, though it does change the dynamic between user and creator. If something is free, generally theres gratuide, users will live with the odd buggete. But when thats paid for, theres expectations. While 99.99% of customers are great people, a quick trawl through the forums shows that some "experts" expect way too much and are not ashamed to take up your time or slate your work.

So you'd have to ask yourself is that the real price?

You'll be pleased to know I offer a "Double Your Money Back" Guarantee on all my Freestuff.

Sam, you always make me smile ... and that's doing something after the last couple of months I've had. Thank you, you wonderful twit.

SamTherapy posted at 8:27PM Wed, 01 February 2017 - #4296341

You'll be pleased to know I offer a "Double Your Money Back" Guarantee on all my Freestuff.

So does that mean if I don't like it you'll pay me fair market value? lol

EClark1894 posted at 8:28PM Wed, 01 February 2017 - #4296311

To be honest, I thought most of the licensing was dictated primarily by the stores, and the vendors just went along thinking the stores not only knew better but were looking out for their interest.

Most stores have a minimum set of criteria in their licensing that vendors have to agree to in order to sell there, but that doesn't prevent the vendor from expanding their licensing further, since ultimately that vendor still owns their content and can grant whatever licensing they want. You would have to contact them and ask if they'll allow certain things beyond what the store license allows. They just (usually) can't restrict it further than what the store they're selling it through sets it at.

And another note on pricing - some vendors price their content higher at sites, such as TS, than they would be at other sites, in order to offset the steep cut that the store takes. For example, TS takes 60% unless you're an exclusive vendor to their store and join their checkmate program and earn ranking based on total sales over time (all of that can be found in their faq on selling).

Something that hasn't been touched on in this thread is the issue of Poser software being the main profit device for Smith Micro in this portion of the market, not Poser content. This directly impacts on the content market state overall and the price point of products available for Poser.

For Smith Micro a large range of inexpensive content acts primarily to broaden their market attraction and "influence" purchases of their key product, Poser software. The viability or price point of content, or the profitability/sustainability of their content creators is totally irrelevant to Smith Micro's overall business plan in this segment. SM may be more inclined to flood inexpensive content into the market segment, which would aid them in their overall brand reach and increase the perceived value of their base software. You could actually go as far as to say it is actually is in their interest to drive down content prices for their own customers in the shorter term. Lots of free/cheap content is awesome for Smith Micro and while this may seem great from a consumer point of view at first, unfortunately it is likely to result in a decline in volume of content produced in the longer term and potentially effect the quality of the content available, as the primary content creator segment is made up from the the hobbyist and amateur pool whom have varying skill levels and specialisations. (No offence to amateurs out their, there is some great talent and serious skills in this group. Unfortunately they are probably a little under supported and under utilised in their overall contribution to the current Poser content market). Under these conditions many content creators who are interested in commercial viability are likely to move on to greener pastures as a result of the low price point established by some market places in this sector which can lead to lower ROI for themselves and their work. Also there is little attraction for new professional content creators to enter into the market sector, especially if their research leads them to a thread such as this one, with statements such as "that can be as low as 5-7c per sale".

The only time low price point per unit can work is when volumes are astronomical, such as with the Apple Software Stores approach. If it sells 100 million copies for 3$, a single dollar return per sale would be sufficient to keep pushing the market along and attract further intellectual investment into the creation of content for that platform. Unfortunately $1 per sale on 100 sales drives the market in the opposite direction.

On the flip side when content is King and the cost of the platform is virtually zero, focus is on putting value into the accompanying content itself and keeping price points stable/viable for content creators and the market as a whole. Under this structure the content creators tend to be better nurtured and looked after as they are a primary resource for this kind of business model, this mentality goes on to influence the design of the platform itself. Of course there is nothing stopping 3rd party markets swooping in to undercut on lower price point basis alone, but generally this kind of business strategy is ultimately at the expense of their own content creators in the short term and to the broader consumer market in the long term with the inevitable resulting downturns in variety and quality of content on offer. Some marketplaces can survive quite well under these conditions as the overall income for themselves is generated by a large pool of sellers, providing the marketplace itself an overall pooled income with decent total volumes behind it.

Ideally content pricing should be aiming for a sweet spot, that should be a fair and reasonable price that offers broad accessibility for customers and decent returns for the creators of that content. While coming in at a low price point as a new creator can be done with some level of success, it also has some dangers attached to it. Undercutting can drive the market price points down across the broader market to unprofitable levels, plus when seeking to normalise pricing later once established as seller it may result in a backlash from customers as they perceive the increase as a trend of increasing prices overall.

Free stuff is also a very positive part of the market and can help to grow the market sector overall as it helps generate interest with no accessibility costs (Other than the cost of Poser for the Poser side of the market). Free Stuff is also a great way for people to cut their teeth with content creation and contribute in a manner they enjoy personally. Sorry for the WOT.

Boni posted at 7:50AM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296348

Sam, you always make me smile ... and that's doing something after the last couple of months I've had. Thank you, you wonderful twit.

Aww, thank you Dear Lady. bows Sorry to hear you've been having a bad time.

AmbientShade posted at 7:53AM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296364

SamTherapy posted at 8:27PM Wed, 01 February 2017 - #4296341

You'll be pleased to know I offer a "Double Your Money Back" Guarantee on all my Freestuff.

So does that mean if I don't like it you'll pay me fair market value? lol

Well...no. You get back double what you paid for it. Nice try, though. :D

Razor42 posted at 11:45AM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296383

Something that hasn't been touched on in this thread is the issue of Poser software being the main profit device for Smith Micro in this portion of the market, not Poser content. This directly impacts on the content market state overall and the price point of products available for Poser.

For Smith Micro a large range of inexpensive content acts primarily to broaden their market attraction and "influence" purchases of their key product, Poser software. The viability or price point of content, or the profitability/sustainability of their content creators is totally irrelevant to Smith Micro's overall business plan in this segment. SM may be more inclined to flood inexpensive content into the market segment, which would aid them in their overall brand reach and increase the perceived value of their base software. You could actually go as far as to say it is actually is in their interest to drive down content prices for their own customers in the shorter term. Lots of free/cheap content is awesome for Smith Micro and while this may seem great from a consumer point of view at first, unfortunately it is likely to result in a decline in volume of content produced in the longer term and potentially effect the quality of the content available, as the primary content creator segment is made up from the the hobbyist and amateur pool whom have varying skill levels and specialisations. (No offence to amateurs out their, there is some great talent and serious skills in this group. Unfortunately they are probably a little under supported and under utilised in their overall contribution to the current Poser content market). Under these conditions many content creators who are interested in commercial viability are likely to move on to greener pastures as a result of the low price point established by some market places in this sector which can lead to lower ROI for themselves and their work. Also there is little attraction for new professional content creators to enter into the market sector, especially if their research leads them to a thread such as this one, with statements such as "that can be as low as 5-7c per sale".

Interesting and valid points you make here. However it wasn't SM that flooded the market with inexpensive content. By the time they came into the picture (by purchasing Poser, sometime around 2006-2008), the price of Poser/DS content had long been established, at about what it is now. And they never 'flooded the market' with anything. Content has always been an afterthought for whoever owned Poser over its history and mostly left to 3rd party providers. Even in the days of E-Frontier - (which was -IIRC- when Poser & Co. actually started releasing content separate from what was included in the software), those price ranges were already well established, and any official content released by Poser was priced in relation to the market at that time. I don't remember the exact details, but I recall the original Victoria figure being priced around $100-$200 for just the base figure. Then the platinum club came along, and all of that changed.

AmbientShade posted at 1:47PM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296425

Razor42 posted at 11:45AM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296383

Something that hasn't been touched on in this thread is the issue of Poser software being the main profit device for Smith Micro in this portion of the market, not Poser content. This directly impacts on the content market state overall and the price point of products available for Poser.

For Smith Micro a large range of inexpensive content acts primarily to broaden their market attraction and "influence" purchases of their key product, Poser software. The viability or price point of content, or the profitability/sustainability of their content creators is totally irrelevant to Smith Micro's overall business plan in this segment. SM may be more inclined to flood inexpensive content into the market segment, which would aid them in their overall brand reach and increase the perceived value of their base software. You could actually go as far as to say it is actually is in their interest to drive down content prices for their own customers in the shorter term. Lots of free/cheap content is awesome for Smith Micro and while this may seem great from a consumer point of view at first, unfortunately it is likely to result in a decline in volume of content produced in the longer term and potentially effect the quality of the content available, as the primary content creator segment is made up from the the hobbyist and amateur pool whom have varying skill levels and specialisations. (No offence to amateurs out their, there is some great talent and serious skills in this group. Unfortunately they are probably a little under supported and under utilised in their overall contribution to the current Poser content market). Under these conditions many content creators who are interested in commercial viability are likely to move on to greener pastures as a result of the low price point established by some market places in this sector which can lead to lower ROI for themselves and their work. Also there is little attraction for new professional content creators to enter into the market sector, especially if their research leads them to a thread such as this one, with statements such as "that can be as low as 5-7c per sale".

Interesting and valid points you make here. However it wasn't SM that flooded the market with inexpensive content. By the time they came into the picture (by purchasing Poser, sometime around 2006-2008), the price of Poser/DS content had long been established, at about what it is now. And they never 'flooded the market' with anything. Content has always been an afterthought for whoever owned Poser over its history and mostly left to 3rd party providers. Even in the days of E-Frontier - (which was -IIRC- when Poser & Co. actually started releasing content separate from what was included in the software), those price ranges were already well established, and any official content released by Poser was priced in relation to the market at that time. I don't remember the exact details, but I recall the original Victoria figure being priced around $100-$200 for just the base figure. Then the platinum club came along, and all of that changed.

I have to agree with Shane here. SM has never been a power player in the content market, the way DAZ has. And while I had no intention of bring software into the conversation, let us not forget that the content king of the Poserverse was and still is DAZ. To be honest, I've always considered Renderosity tto be on the high priced end of the spectrum in the Poserverse rather than DAZ. Most of the stuff in my library that came from a store has come from DAZ and that has been purchase through DAZ's Platinum Club for a $1.99. That's not to say that those never ending March madness sales didn't do their share of filling up the library vault as well.

Good points, it really isn't a matter of bringing software into the conversation, its more about the market sector that each company/platform resides in.

The platform is critical to answer your question "How do you determine the price of a model?", you need to look at a few key areas around the models intended target market. These are some of the main ones but there are many more factors to be considered, some others have been mentioned above.

1 What is the platform?

2 What is the intended marketplace?

3 Who are the intended customers?

The platform is as important as the rest as it gives key information about the customer base and the established price points in that sector. It would be a mistake to ignore this factor in the interests of being polite.

A simple analogy would be to look at Iphone games compared to PlayStation games in regards to price point and quality of content. If you price a game as per the Playstation guidelines for the Iphone market you may be in for a big shock as the price point would be wildly over the expectations of customers and would receive a strong backlash. The platform is the base of the market environment and will be the strongest determiner in establishing a guide price for the item and also the strongest factor in defining the amount of investment possible in comparison to the expected revenue of the item.

Just as a side note the Daz PC works very differently compared to other similar offerings across the market sector and effects the rest of localised market very differently too.

Also I'm not trying to say that Smith Micro have flooded the market with content, just that they have under invested in the area, for obvious reasons, and this can effect customer expectations as to 3rd party content price points and restrict growth in that area. On the other hand a different approach may see strong stimulation and growth in the same area, but there is no direct benefit for SM to attempt such an approach because of their existing structure. As a result there is a pretty large divergence in the 3rd party market sector for each platform, what once was one market sector is rapidly becoming two. In the long term this will have a direct impact on price point, the customer bases of each sector and the market places themselves.

Boni posted at 8:20PM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296348

Sam, you always make me smile ... and that's doing something after the last couple of months I've had. Thank you, you wonderful twit.

Thoroughly agree. I don't contribute much to these Forums but that Sam guy is tops for smiles.

Tracybee posted at 7:46AM Fri, 03 February 2017 - #4296470

Boni posted at 8:20PM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296348

Sam, you always make me smile ... and that's doing something after the last couple of months I've had. Thank you, you wonderful twit.

Thoroughly agree. I don't contribute much to these Forums but that Sam guy is tops for smiles.

Thanks! I'll be here all week. Try the fish!

SamTherapy posted at 10:57AM Fri, 03 February 2017 - #4296481

Tracybee posted at 7:46AM Fri, 03 February 2017 - #4296470

Boni posted at 8:20PM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296348

Sam, you always make me smile ... and that's doing something after the last couple of months I've had. Thank you, you wonderful twit.

Thoroughly agree. I don't contribute much to these Forums but that Sam guy is tops for smiles.

Thanks! I'll be here all week. Try the fish!

Who wants week old fish? Ugh.

EClark1894 posted at 4:58PM Fri, 03 February 2017 - #4296488

SamTherapy posted at 10:57AM Fri, 03 February 2017 - #4296481

Tracybee posted at 7:46AM Fri, 03 February 2017 - #4296470

Boni posted at 8:20PM Thu, 02 February 2017 - #4296348

Sam, you always make me smile ... and that's doing something after the last couple of months I've had. Thank you, you wonderful twit.

Thoroughly agree. I don't contribute much to these Forums but that Sam guy is tops for smiles.

Thanks! I'll be here all week. Try the fish!

Who wants week old fish? Ugh.

EClark1894 u didn't have a quote button ???

Anyways I haven't read the thread.

there isn't really a market for blender

game meshes sell at unreal n unity daz even sells there

anyways there no difference between subded turbos n renderosity meshes.

the price depend on what format it is

exact same mesh in .max format is worth a lot more then exact same mesh in .obj format

the format names the price.

RorrKonn posted at 5:12AM Sun, 05 February 2017 - #4296626

EClark1894 u didn't have a quote button ???

Anyways I haven't read the thread.

there isn't really a market for blender

game meshes sell at unreal n unity daz even sells there

anyways there no difference between subded turbos n renderosity meshes.

the price depend on what format it is

exact same mesh in .max format is worth a lot more then exact same mesh in .obj format

the format names the price.

Why???

EClark1849 posted at 1:19PM Sun, 05 February 2017 - #4296629

RorrKonn posted at 5:12AM Sun, 05 February 2017 - #4296626

EClark1894 u didn't have a quote button ???

Anyways I haven't read the thread.

there isn't really a market for blender

game meshes sell at unreal n unity daz even sells there

anyways there no difference between subded turbos n renderosity meshes.

the price depend on what format it is

exact same mesh in .max format is worth a lot more then exact same mesh in .obj format

the format names the price.

Why???

Perceived value. Sad but true; this is true also of texture v model pricing. A texture, when built from scratch can take a hell of a long time to make. As long as a decent model, in fact. But... any half decent model - and possibly many not so good models - will command a higher price than the texture set.

People seem to look at a format/file type or whatever and believe one is inherently worth more than the other. Not too different from the PC/Mac cost disparity, really.

EClark1849 posted at 9:46AM Sun, 05 February 2017 - #4296629

RorrKonn posted at 5:12AM Sun, 05 February 2017 - #4296626

EClark1894 u didn't have a quote button ???

Anyways I haven't read the thread.

there isn't really a market for blender

game meshes sell at unreal n unity daz even sells there

anyways there no difference between subded turbos n renderosity meshes.

the price depend on what format it is

exact same mesh in .max format is worth a lot more then exact same mesh in .obj format

the format names the price.

Why???

if I have max I can import Vicky convert all the textures n rerig or I can pay bubba a $ 1000.00 for a girl in max format .

if I have max I have the $1000.00 for bubba.

if I onlyy have blender then I don't have the 1000 for bubba

Now that I have a minute.

DAZ has sells of StoneMason $3000.00 n zev0 $2500.00 game license.

Wonder how many license they sold ?

Not on DAZ.com but I can buy Vicky for $12.00 in unity format at unity's store or morph3D store. but not at DAZ.com

at DAZ I can buy Vicky for $ 44.95 but if I want a anatomy correct Vicky it's $134.95

the anatomy correct part is only what 5% of the mesh but your paying $90 for that 5% part.

for no logical reason then they no we will pay for it.It is the world oldest profession after all.

Roxxie is anatomy correct n don't cost a thing but every one wants DAZ characters.

there's no why ,there's just is it's that way. My personal belief is it's pointless to try n compete against DAZ.

Humans are not logical creatures.

We don't need a Lamborghini to drive n there not that comfortable to set in but ...

Disagree about Lamborghini; they're pretty nice if you have decent seats. Ferrari, however...

SamTherapy posted at 6:25PM Sun, 05 February 2017 - #4296683

Disagree about Lamborghini; they're pretty nice if you have decent seats. Ferrari, however...

LOL n Ferrari's don't even have a door handles just a cable ,I think for that price I alt to get door handles ,oh and air conditioning !!!

There are no winners. Well, if one has to name a winner it would be the site. They take 50% of the cake.

Being retired and having our tax system here, I would be taxed as a second income, and actually loose money if I made a single sale.

"That's" how "honest" the system is.

So? I write tutorials for PPS. (Pure Personal Satisfaction) and to get the knowledge out to a wider public.

EClark1849 posted at 11:16AM Mon, 06 February 2017 - #4296629

RorrKonn posted at 5:12AM Sun, 05 February 2017 - #4296626

the format names the price.

Why???

The format doesn't name the price, different markets prefer different format types. Generally a product aimed at business consumption will have a higher price tag than a hobbyist aimed item. The format reflects the intended target market. Higher price tag professional models usually have a broader licence and will turnover fewer units.

"Not on DAZ.com but I can buy Vicky for $12.00 in unity format at unity's store or morph3D store. but not at DAZ.com"

This is not actually correct, "Vicky" is not available from the Unity store or the Morph 3D Store. MCS Female Lite is free and MCS Female is currently $50. Victoria 7 is a character preset for Genesis 3 Female for use in Daz Studio, Genesis 3 base figures are free from Daz 3D... I think you're over simplifying both of these character systems, aimed at very different end users and markets.

"there's no why ,there's just is it's that way."

There is always a "why" as to what motivates consumer purchases, whether it's for items such as Rolex watches and Sports Cars or even just toilet paper.

"Roxxie is anatomy correct n don't cost a thing but every one wants DAZ characters."

Boggles the mind doesn't it....

The fact that you have Roxie hast just rewritten reality for me.

P.S. Just a personal observation from me... Genesis models have a fantastically realistic looking body, but all of their faces tend to look like plastic mannequins. Is that the model, IRay or my imagination?

Tony _ enjoy you retirement .but if you really wanted to come out of retirement I'd get a better accountant.

Razor _ your a killer Artist so think in concepts n leave precision facts to the rocket scientist.

EClark well they are cgi mannequins from head to toe.so... they look fake to me to.

I've seldom seen a realist cgi character ,Hollywood gets close but they have the million dollar meshes.

maybe one day we'll have a home PC that can render in real time a realistic $100.00 character with a $500.00 app.

we could start today with compositing ,post n well few ever do.

I want every one to get what they want so if they want realism hope they get it.

I like the comic n anime look .wish 3D could do that .

EClark1849 posted at 6:44AM Mon, 06 February 2017 - #4296692

The fact that you have Roxie hast just rewritten reality for me.

P.S. Just a personal observation from me... Genesis models have a fantastically realistic looking body, but all of their faces tend to look like plastic mannequins. Is that the model, IRay or my imagination?

Depends on how you interpret realism, from the point of value Genesis models are designed to be desirable rather realistic - just like Hollywood and their movie stars.

On the subject of why the wide range in prices for the type of mesh, I've always assumed the difference in price between TS and Daz is due to its potential size of the hobby market, ie the maker of the product has a target return in their head so the unit cost reflects how many purchases they expect. If that's the case shouldn't the question be how many sales should the OP expect rather than the individual price.

Tony got it right ,If you want too make serious $$$ as a vender. You need your own store ,that customer visit constantly.

but how do you get customers at your store ? do keep in mind venders get 50% bank gets 33% so u got 17% to pay for site ,forums etc etc.

1 make your own Vicky ,Dawn. n good luck with that one.

1. maybe sell original characters like creatures ,monsters, mechs etc etc

2. ah ,hum ,well I'm out of ideas.

This is all hear say n rumors but I herd a few of the very very top venders that's been around for a long long time make 6 digits salary a year.

I personally only believe what's proven to me.

EClark1849 posted at 10:10AM Tue, 07 February 2017 - #4296692

The fact that you have Roxie hast just rewritten reality for me.

P.S. Just a personal observation from me... Genesis models have a fantastically realistic looking body, but all of their faces tend to look like plastic mannequins. Is that the model, IRay or my imagination?

I'm not sure tbh, all I can say is that the Genesis models are rendered in both Poser and in DS so it is hard to blame Iray and the model is as morphable as any other so Genesis face shape is not set in stone, but defined by each character sculpt. Also the face of Genesis 3 is one of the most flexible out there being fully rigged. From everything I can see the Genesis series is the most realistic in the market to date? I had a look for some alternate figure renders to compare using things like EZskin but had troubling finding images that did either justice. Maybe you could post some for comparison?

Here is a Poser render of Genesis 2..

Or Genesis 3 in Iray.

Razor42 posted at 11:37PM Mon, 06 February 2017 - #4296772

EClark1849 posted at 10:10AM Tue, 07 February 2017 - #4296692

The fact that you have Roxie hast just rewritten reality for me.

P.S. Just a personal observation from me... Genesis models have a fantastically realistic looking body, but all of their faces tend to look like plastic mannequins. Is that the model, IRay or my imagination?

I'm not sure tbh, all I can say is that the Genesis models are rendered in both Poser and in DS so it is hard to blame Iray and the model is as morphable as any other so Genesis face shape is not set in stone, but defined by each character sculpt. Also the face of Genesis 3 is one of the most flexible out there being fully rigged. From everything I can see the Genesis series is the most realistic in the market to date? I had a look for some alternate figure renders to compare using things like EZskin but had troubling finding images that did either justice. Maybe you could post some for comparison?

Here is a Poser render of Genesis 2..

Or Genesis 3 in Iray.

I'm with you on this one. Haven't seen anything else come close.

RorrKonn posted at 10:38AM Tue, 07 February 2017 - #4296745

Tony got it right ,If you want too make serious $$$ as a vender. You need your own store ,that customer visit constantly.

but how do you get customers at your store ? do keep in mind venders get 50% bank gets 33% so u got 17% to pay for site ,forums etc etc.

1 make your own Vicky ,Dawn. n good luck with that one.

1. maybe sell original characters like creatures ,monsters, mechs etc etc

2. ah ,hum ,well I'm out of ideas.

This is all hear say n rumors but I herd a few of the very very top venders that's been around for a long long time make 6 digits salary a year.

I personally only believe what's proven to me.

Actually going it alone is probably one of the options with the highest risk, cost overheads and workloads. I think if you did a cost breakdown per unit you would find that what most marketplaces take as a cut per sale is entirely reasonable considering what they offer in return. In fact I do not think I could name a single vendor in this market sector that sells exclusively through their own site? So I'm not sure where the proof of concept is here?

There are many reasons why market sites like Amazon, Ebay, Steam and the Unity store are so successful in their sectors.

Razor42 Don't think I explained my self good enough. Think I mixed 2 different thoughts.

1 thought was Amazon, Ebay, Steam and the Unity store DAZ Renderosity etc etc make more then a solo vender .but if your tiered of being a solo vender n make your own store you need customer that visit your store a lot so u need a mesh like Vicky or dawn , n maybe a bunch of stand alone creature monster n mech would do .if you don't have a Vicky or Dawn ,I doubt your get a lot of traffic.

--

2 thought was

This is all hear say n rumors but I herd a few of the very very top venders that's been around for a long long time make 6 digits salary a year.

I personally only believe what's proven to me.so until some one proves I can make $100,000.00 a year as a vender .I don't know what venders make but I personally doubt any make $100,000.00 a year.

RorrKonn posted at 7:59AM Tue, 07 February 2017 - #4296803

Razor42 Don't think I explained my self good enough. Think I mixed 2 different thoughts.

1 thought was Amazon, Ebay, Steam and the Unity store DAZ Renderosity etc etc make more then a solo vender .but if your tiered of being a solo vender n make your own store you need customer that visit your store a lot so u need a mesh like Vicky or dawn , n maybe a bunch of stand alone creature monster n mech would do .if you don't have a Vicky or Dawn ,I doubt your get a lot of traffic.

--

2 thought was

This is all hear say n rumors but I herd a few of the very very top venders that's been around for a long long time make 6 digits salary a year.

I personally only believe what's proven to me.so until some one proves I can make $100,000.00 a year as a vender .I don't know what venders make but I personally doubt any make $100,000.00 a year.

Is that from a single figure or from having a large catalogue? To me it would be less risky to plan on having a catalogue with the return spread across the all items rather than consider each item must pay for itself. For example start with G3 clothing priced at a low value to get people to visit the store but also make the items easy to convert to your own figure, once your market is up and running and you know the customers then release the figure with its own content available from day one based on the G3 clothing you're already selling. If it doesn't work out then you still have the G3 items, if it does succeed you can start expanding its content base. I think when trying to decide the price of an object it needs to take into account what the longer term plans are.

ironsoul posted at 9:48AM Tue, 07 February 2017 - #4296810

RorrKonn posted at 7:59AM Tue, 07 February 2017 - #4296803

Razor42 Don't think I explained my self good enough. Think I mixed 2 different thoughts.

1 thought was Amazon, Ebay, Steam and the Unity store DAZ Renderosity etc etc make more then a solo vender .but if your tiered of being a solo vender n make your own store you need customer that visit your store a lot so u need a mesh like Vicky or dawn , n maybe a bunch of stand alone creature monster n mech would do .if you don't have a Vicky or Dawn ,I doubt your get a lot of traffic.

--

2 thought was

This is all hear say n rumors but I herd a few of the very very top venders that's been around for a long long time make 6 digits salary a year.

I personally only believe what's proven to me.so until some one proves I can make $100,000.00 a year as a vender .I don't know what venders make but I personally doubt any make $100,000.00 a year.

Is that from a single figure or from having a large catalogue? To me it would be less risky to plan on having a catalogue with the return spread across the all items rather than consider each item must pay for itself. For example start with G3 clothing priced at a low value to get people to visit the store but also make the items easy to convert to your own figure, once your market is up and running and you know the customers then release the figure with its own content available from day one based on the G3 clothing you're already selling. If it doesn't work out then you still have the G3 items, if it does succeed you can start expanding its content base. I think when trying to decide the price of an object it needs to take into account what the longer term plans are.

It would be the very very top venders that's been around for a long long time.with a really big collection of stuff.

They say your brand new stuff only sells well for about 3 days n then the sales droop off.

No "very very top vender" would be crazy enough to attempt such a thing in all honesty. I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of admin time and cost involved with building a successful web store for things like digital content.

Launching a figure from an independent store would limit its market impact, community inclusiveness and almost guarantee the failure of said figure. To be successful a new figure would be better off seeking a strong partner with marketing expertise and broader community reach. I honestly cannot see a single positive why taking a new figure release to an independent store front would aid the figure or it's creators success. Do you have any idea how much marketing capital it takes to get something like that off the ground? I would even have my doubts with partnering with one of the smaller market for such an offering.

A fragmented market can also be detrimental to customer experience. Even a top vendor can only create content at a finite rate, most customers would quickly become bored with such a slow release rate from a store." Nothing new today try again next week" hardly peaks customer excitement and purchasing interest.

Part of the benefit to me of being in partnership with one of the larger markets is the time it gives me to focus on creation of content, rather than the hundreds of other roles that would be needed to be fulfilled in an endeavour such as the one being described above.

That doesn't mean it isn't possible to be done, if that is what someone really wants to accomplish, but let me just ask what is the single most independent vendor store you know off? If you can think of a single one, try checking their traffic compared to the big guys with something like Alexa.com. One of the cores of successful business strategy is realising that attempting to do everything yourself can only hurt your prospects in the long term. What you are talking about is the opposite of a normal business progression, usually the more successful you become the more you look to form strong business partnerships that can help minimise some of the associated workload in general operations and grow the business without growing the workload.

Maybe if you could point out the benefits of what you are suggesting I could understand why you think any serious content creator would be interested in such a path?

Even selling through a large broker like daz or rosity still requires self promotion and marketing if you expect to be successful. There's only so much advertising you're going to get from a broker, because at the end of the day you're just one name on their roster of hundreds. You have to build a brand for yourself and work on building a fan base outside of the site your content is being sold through and all of that takes time and persistence.

There are content artists who run their own site as well as sell through brokerages but usually they aren't working by themselves.

Then there's sites like hivewire who launched a new figure and a new store at the same time and are still running a few years later, so it is possible. It just depends how much time and effort you're willing/able to put into it.

Razor42 posted at 10:13PM Tue, 07 February 2017 - #4296875

No "very very top vender" would be crazy enough to attempt such a thing in all honesty. I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of admin time and cost involved with building a successful web store for things like digital content.

Launching a figure from an independent store would limit its market impact, community inclusiveness and almost guarantee the failure of said figure. To be successful a new figure would be better off seeking a strong partner with marketing expertise and broader community reach. I honestly cannot see a single positive why taking a new figure release to an independent store front would aid the figure or it's creators success. Do you have any idea how much marketing capital it takes to get something like that off the ground? I would even have my doubts with partnering with one of the smaller market for such an offering.

A fragmented market can also be detrimental to customer experience. Even a top vendor can only create content at a finite rate, most customers would quickly become bored with such a slow release rate from a store." Nothing new today try again next week" hardly peaks customer excitement and purchasing interest.

Part of the benefit to me of being in partnership with one of the larger markets is the time it gives me to focus on creation of content, rather than the hundreds of other roles that would be needed to be fulfilled in an endeavour such as the one being described above.

That doesn't mean it isn't possible to be done, if that is what someone really wants to accomplish, but let me just ask what is the single most independent vendor store you know off? If you can think of a single one, try checking their traffic compared to the big guys with something like Alexa.com. One of the cores of successful business strategy is realising that attempting to do everything yourself can only hurt your prospects in the long term. What you are talking about is the opposite of a normal business progression, usually the more successful you become the more you look to form strong business partnerships that can help minimise some of the associated workload in general operations and grow the business without growing the workload.

Maybe if you could point out the benefits of what you are suggesting I could understand why you think any serious content creator would be interested in such a path?

I was just commenting on Tony's comment about sites being winners.

I think the only way a site would ever be successful was if they had there own characters.

So if you don't have your own characters ,then I wouldn't expect your site to rake in hundreds of thousands.

anyways Razor I agree with every thing ya said about business.

AmbientShade posted at 10:14PM Tue, 07 February 2017 - #4296879

Even selling through a large broker like daz or rosity still requires self promotion and marketing if you expect to be successful. There's only so much advertising you're going to get from a broker, because at the end of the day you're just one name on their roster of hundreds. You have to build a brand for yourself and work on building a fan base outside of the site your content is being sold through and all of that takes time and persistence.

There are content artists who run their own site as well as sell through brokerages but usually they aren't working by themselves.

Then there's sites like hivewire who launched a new figure and a new store at the same time and are still running a few years later, so it is possible. It just depends how much time and effort you're willing/able to put into it.

I agree n wish HW3D years of success.

DAZ has the market on characters n HV seems to be going after natures market.

There's other ways of making a living at this than just selling content too. You can sell the art you make with it if it's good enough. You can sell comics. You can create your own content and sell the art you make with that. You can do any combination of those things and turn it into a living. With the rise of sites like patreon and other art markets a lot of artists are making their living doing what they enjoy. All of it comes back around to learning how to promote yourself, no matter what it is you're doing. You just have to find an audience for it that's willing to pay you to make more of it.

AmbientShade posted at 3:33PM Wed, 08 February 2017 - #4296879

Even selling through a large broker like daz or rosity still requires self promotion and marketing if you expect to be successful. There's only so much advertising you're going to get from a broker, because at the end of the day you're just one name on their roster of hundreds. You have to build a brand for yourself and work on building a fan base outside of the site your content is being sold through and all of that takes time and persistence.

There are content artists who run their own site as well as sell through brokerages but usually they aren't working by themselves.

Then there's sites like hivewire who launched a new figure and a new store at the same time and are still running a few years later, so it is possible. It just depends how much time and effort you're willing/able to put into it.

You're right self promotion is important either way and does form part of building successful brand recognition with customers. Though at the end of the day, it is nowhere near as important as the quality of content created and the meeting of customer requirements within the product delivered. This is what truly builds a strong brand for content creators. Many of the big name vendors do very little self promotion if you have a look, but have established themselves as a large brand regardless. Other vendors have changed their brand names numerous times and continued to see success regardless of their brand revamps.

It seems you may be underestimating the power of brand affiliations relation to consumer confidence which is much higher with an established parent brand. A customer will make more frequent purchases over time from a brand they trust, regardless of the individual brands that exist under that parent entity. For example a Coca Cola branded Hibiscus flavoured drink would see more chance of market success and higher purchase numbers simply from the brand affiliation at work from its parent Coca Cola. Selling "Bob's Hibiscus Juice" means establishing not only the product itself but also Bob in consumers minds. If Bob did decide to go it alone and knock back a license deal from Coca Cola, most people would see that as being rather crazy and a missed opportunity considering the brand equity and marketing resources available from them.

There is also a big difference between marketing and promoting an entire website as a vehicle to sell your own products, and promoting products sold on an existing established marketplaces which have their own marketing components at work.These parent marketing components form a foundation to stem your own marketing from. Each major marketplace has established brand recognition in the sector and brings commodities to customers such as consumer trust (or distrust in some cases) for new products, quality guarantees, returns/refunds, secure payment facilities, website security... etc. The marketing and financial equity required to build trust for these areas into a consumers mindset for an individual store front is huge and seems to be reinventing the wheel when you could easily get a taxi. One element that could severely effect any new figures success in today's market is the seed of doubt in a consumers mind about the level of support the figure would see across the community as a whole and from the independent source over time. This can trigger a wait and see mentality in customers, that could see the figure miss it's moment.

HW is the opposite of an independent solo storefront. It's very much borrowing from already established marketplace moulds with a significant financial investment into the brand itself.

Just wondering .Say I made a wood shack or a space station and I wanted it at the top of the news letter .how much does that cost for Renderosity ,HW3D ,DAZ ?

are Renderosity ,HW3D ,DAZ prices the same or different ?

I'm guessing news letters are the best way to get sells.

Aery Soul drives me crazy changing there name all the time ,one would think it's not a good business decisions to change ya name all the time. .

Here are the Renderosity paid promotional aids. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vendor/renderositymarketing

Daz doesn't sell any promotional slots to it's content creators as far as I know, but every product released appears in the Newsletter.

Sorry not sure on Hivewire3D.

Can't say I'm a fan of charging vendors to advertise on a site that they are the primary traffic generator for, I believe that product marketing should be included in the sites %50 slice. But each to their own.