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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Jan 24 6:22 pm)
Subject: Where has all the Poser content gone?
3-DArena posted at 12:27AM Mon, 20 November 2017 - #4318292
DreaminGirl posted at 7:23PM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318287
@3-DArena
Just curious, does the product you listed come with Superfly mats?
No because I couldn't get decent lighting for Superfly renders to check that it looked good. I won't offer something I can't test for myself. Before release I checked it against other expansions in the store and none of them at the time included Superfly, most still don't.
Here's something I found that may help if you didn't already know about it. Hope it helps.
http://www.sharecg.com/v/84810/gallery/3/PDF-Tutorial/Lighting-relationships-in-Poser
DreaminGirl posted at 12:31AM Mon, 20 November 2017 - #4318297
Ghostship had released some pretty good lightsets for free here: Studio Portrait Lights for Poser 11 & Poser 11 Pro
You should also check out the official Poser forums at SM, there is a lot of good information there, and also helpful people to get you started. SM also has tutorials on Youtube. There is actually loads of P11 tutorials and freebies out there, but they don't have Daz3D's PR machine behind them ;)
I've gathered a plethora of Poser tutorials on lighting and other subjects Here
The main issue is that the two apps hit a fork in the road a while ago which has splintered the professional content market, making it hard for any developer to be broad across the entire market space. For example here is the latest I am working on, a multi piece armor set for Genesis 8 Male. Almost everything in these renders is custom made for Daz Studio, the only scene based item that I didn't have hand in creating myself is the Genesis 8 Male figure. Tbh, I'm not sure where I would start making this product Poser ready.
Anyone want to provide a quote for converting this one for Poser usage with promo artwork suitable renders? TBH I am not even sure what the latest Male figure for Poser would be optimal to create for? Orion maybe?:
. Nor where I should start in as far as Shader bases for Superfly materials. Or where to start with Superfly lighting as mentioned... Or do I need Firefly mat presets also these days... and meybe 3Delight as well..... .......
Anyway its good to see a render in the thread, maybe someone wants to share some Superfly goodness?
A comment only Razor, and not trying to start an "my app is better than your app" argument. You know me better than that. For my part. 1. Nice render. I really like it. Although, what is that between his legs. looks like part of the armor is ... melting? Also, Love the lighting, but I can't tell what that is behind him. Sky or is something on fire?
Now to answer some of your questions. Truthfully, I don't really see anything that couldn't be accomplished in Poser 11 with Superfly or Cycles. As for the figure, well, I think you know that I'm probably into the Hivewire figures, Dusk and Dawn, so if I were going to begin a conversion, I'd probably go there. Mind you, now, realism isn't really my thing, so I'd probably lean more towards the Cycles shaders than any Superfly oriented ones. People really do forget that Superfly is really just a hybrid of Cycles and Firefly. For me, coming from a Blender perspective, Cycles is a little more direct and easier to get there for me.
EClark1894 posted at 1:03PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318330
A comment only Razor, and not trying to start an "my app is better than your app" argument. You know me better than that. For my part. 1. Nice render. I really like it. Although, what is that between his legs. looks like part of the armor is ... melting? Also, Love the lighting, but I can't tell what that is behind him. Sky or is something on fire?
The armor is still WIP so the melting part of the armor is cloth that hasn't had the materials completed as yet. As far as the background, It isn't anything definite, just put the scene together as a progress render to see how the shaders were working under different lighting conditions. The flames in the background are a dome light emitter, the scene uses a sun and sky base which is set for late afternoon and a second box emitter light placed above the figure.
Now to answer some of your questions. Truthfully, I don't really see anything that couldn't be accomplished in Poser 11 with Superfly or Cycles. As for the figure, well, I think you know that I'm probably into the Hivewire figures, Dusk and Dawn, so if I were going to begin a conversion, I'd probably go there. Mind you, now, realism isn't really my thing, so I'd probably lean more towards the Cycles shaders than any Superfly oriented ones. People really do forget that Superfly is really just a hybrid of Cycles and Firefly. For me, coming from a Blender perspective, Cycles is a little more direct and easier to get there for me.
I'm not trying to make a point that this couldn't be done with Poser and I'm sure most of it could with enough patience or knowledge of Poser's production pipelines. The point is that the two apps have divided so much that this would be a complete rebuild with a lot of extra work required to include Poser compatibility for this product. It's not a case of vendors neglecting to do a few tweaks and making a product Poser ready. The fractured nature of the Poser market makes it pretty hard to keep everyone happy these days. With Poser users using at least 3 major figure ranges from different developers (SM figures, Daz, Hivewire), users spread over different release versions and also now by preferred render engine. This adds up to lots of extra work to finalise a product with a broad level of compatibility. And if the returns/sales are not there to cover the extra work, then... ...
Razor42 posted at 10:25PM Mon, 20 November 2017 - #4318390
EClark1894 posted at 1:03PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318330
A comment only Razor, and not trying to start an "my app is better than your app" argument. You know me better than that. For my part. 1. Nice render. I really like it. Although, what is that between his legs. looks like part of the armor is ... melting? Also, Love the lighting, but I can't tell what that is behind him. Sky or is something on fire?
The armor is still WIP so the melting part of the armor is cloth that hasn't had the materials completed as yet. As far as the background, It isn't anything definite, just put the scene together as a progress render to see how the shaders were working under different lighting conditions. The flames in the background are a dome light emitter, the scene uses a sun and sky base which is set for late afternoon and a second box emitter light placed above the figure.
Now to answer some of your questions. Truthfully, I don't really see anything that couldn't be accomplished in Poser 11 with Superfly or Cycles. As for the figure, well, I think you know that I'm probably into the Hivewire figures, Dusk and Dawn, so if I were going to begin a conversion, I'd probably go there. Mind you, now, realism isn't really my thing, so I'd probably lean more towards the Cycles shaders than any Superfly oriented ones. People really do forget that Superfly is really just a hybrid of Cycles and Firefly. For me, coming from a Blender perspective, Cycles is a little more direct and easier to get there for me.
I'm not trying to make a point that this couldn't be done with Poser and I'm sure most of it could with enough patience or knowledge of Poser's production pipelines. The point is that the two apps have divided so much that this would be a complete rebuild with a lot of extra work required to include Poser compatibility for this product. It's not a case of vendors neglecting to do a few tweaks and making a product Poser ready. The fractured nature of the Poser market makes it pretty hard to keep everyone happy these days. With Poser users using at least 3 major figure ranges from different developers (SM figures, Daz, Hivewire), users spread over different release versions and also now by preferred render engine. This adds up to lots of extra work to finalise a product with a broad level of compatibility. And if the returns/sales are not there to cover the extra work, then... ...
I think you should define the flames in the background more. It will make the render more dramatic.
Male_M3dia posted at 12:32PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318299
I touched on that in my comment as well. Instead of SM talking with the vendors to get them up to speed on new features and get their input on the workflow, the vendors are pretty much getting the release the same time as regular customers, with little docs on how to properly set it up. So the vendors are struggling to use new features around making products for a living and ultimately getting blamed for something that was never properly explained to them. And I don't see how a lot of new features can be used if vendors are in the dark on how to use them, especially when they won't even be able to start on projects using those features until well after the product is officially released.
Again this is also not true. There have been lengthy webinars conducted with every release of Poser since at least P9/2012 that go over every new feature. Those webinars start before Poser is even released and are still available today. There are a number of vendors who are also beta testers who have access to those features and forums to discuss them. If people aren't going to take the time to participate in the webinars or at least watch them later, then that is no one's fault but their own. The information is there for everyone. The truth of it is most don't bother taking the time to even investigate what those new features are as once they get wind that the latest version of Poser still hasn't shackled itself to daz's whims, they just ignore everything else.
AmbientShade posted at 2:18PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318441
Male_M3dia posted at 12:32PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318299
I touched on that in my comment as well. Instead of SM talking with the vendors to get them up to speed on new features and get their input on the workflow, the vendors are pretty much getting the release the same time as regular customers, with little docs on how to properly set it up. So the vendors are struggling to use new features around making products for a living and ultimately getting blamed for something that was never properly explained to them. And I don't see how a lot of new features can be used if vendors are in the dark on how to use them, especially when they won't even be able to start on projects using those features until well after the product is officially released.
Again this is also not true. There have been lengthy webinars conducted with every release of Poser since at least P9/2012 that go over every new feature. Those webinars start before Poser is even released and are still available today. There are a number of vendors who are also beta testers who have access to those features and forums to discuss them. If people aren't going to take the time to participate in the webinars or at least watch them later, then that is no one's fault but their own. The information is there for everyone. The truth of it is most don't bother taking the time to even investigate what those new features are as once they get wind that the latest version of Poser still hasn't shackled itself to daz's whims, they just ignore everything else.
Again, you're not listening to what I'm saying. You're talking about a webinar that EVERYONE has access to; I'm talking about SM actually talking with vendors to show new features, get them up to speed on how to use it, and get feedback on how to make their workflow easier. This is why you have so few using the new features; vendors don't have time to blindly figure out how to figure out features around making their products to pay bills.
That didn't happen. And yes there some vendors that beta test poser (I used to be one of them, and they have my comments how to improve their figure development tools that they never did a thing with) , but we're not talking about beta testing, because that infers that you're already done with development not taking input from them. The thread is about how to get more Poser content, and it seems that vendors have everything they need, when obviously that's not true otherwise this thread would not exist.
This part of your post sticks out:
The truth of it is most don't bother taking the time to even investigate what those new features are as once they get wind that the latest version of Poser still hasn't shackled itself to daz's whims, they just ignore everything else.
Again, whose responsibility is this? You're vendor blaming. SM is responsible for content needs of its user base. That means if not enough vendors are using the new features, then they really ought to be getting in touch with these vendors and try to get them on board with these features and figuring out how to make their job easier, instead of a 1 or 2 hour generic overview, not geared to making a product for sale and think vendors can build from that.
You're the one not paying attention to what I'm saying. Everything you just said has in fact happened and is happening. Beta testers have access to these features, and feedback is given, changes are made. SM can't force vendors to make content for them. The bottom line is that Genesis is not native to Poser, and in order to make that happen it would require SM to constantly bird dog whatever whim Daz decides to do this week or next month. Their development time would be spent constantly updating to keep their software compatible with daz. And because they haven't done that vendors ignore everything else that's added to the software and then claim they don't have time to learn new features. Don't sit there and tell me this or that doesn't happen when I know for a fact that it does happen because I'm in it. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't make content for Poser and clearly haven't in a long time.
AmbientShade posted at 3:54PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318448
You're the one not paying attention to what I'm saying. Everything you just said has in fact happened and is happening. Beta testers have access to these features, and feedback is given, changes are made. SM can't force vendors to make content for them. The bottom line is that Genesis is not native to Poser, and in order to make that happen it would require SM to constantly bird dog whatever whim Daz decides to do this week or next month. Their development time would be spent constantly updating to keep their software compatible with daz. And because they haven't done that vendors ignore everything else that's added to the software and then claim they don't have time to learn new features. Don't sit there and tell me this or that doesn't happen when I know for a fact that it does happen because I'm in it. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't make content for Poser and clearly haven't in a long time.
Why are you talking about genesis and beta testers?
Why are you talking about SM not wanting to use do all kinds of things in their code so they aren't tied to DAZ?
I'm talking about SM getting together with vendors to encourage them to make poser content, but you're trying change the subject with false equivalencies that have nothing to do with anything I said.
Your posts are exactly why Poser content isn't being made. When the point isn't going a person's way, all of a sudden it's "DAZ is this, Genesis is that!" It's not needed or helpful if you want poser content to increase for users, because they aren't getting what they need when people that don't have the answer thinks a bout of app bashing will change the subject. Poser customers deserve better than this type of discussion.
You said I don't know what I'm talking about, but I sure see a few pages of you trying to change the subject every time I disprove one of your points, you know like not knowing about development with V4. And evidently I knew enough to be a beta tester for Poser 2012, and if they didn't have so many issues with the workflow that the devs couldn't give me answers to, I would have finished that ryan 2 character that SM asked me to make.
We're done here. Hitting this ignore button is overdue.
Male_M3dia posted at 4:30PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318458
AmbientShade posted at 3:54PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318448
You're the one not paying attention to what I'm saying. Everything you just said has in fact happened and is happening. Beta testers have access to these features, and feedback is given, changes are made. SM can't force vendors to make content for them. The bottom line is that Genesis is not native to Poser, and in order to make that happen it would require SM to constantly bird dog whatever whim Daz decides to do this week or next month. Their development time would be spent constantly updating to keep their software compatible with daz. And because they haven't done that vendors ignore everything else that's added to the software and then claim they don't have time to learn new features. Don't sit there and tell me this or that doesn't happen when I know for a fact that it does happen because I'm in it. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't make content for Poser and clearly haven't in a long time.
Why are you talking about genesis and beta testers?
Why are you talking about SM not wanting to use do all kinds of things in their code so they aren't tied to DAZ?
I'm talking about SM getting together with vendors to encourage them to make poser content, but you're trying change the subject with false equivalencies that have nothing to do with anything I said.
Your posts are exactly why Poser content isn't being made. When the point isn't going a person's way, all of a sudden it's "DAZ is this, Genesis is that!" It's not needed or helpful if you want poser content to increase for users, because they aren't getting what they need when people that don't have the answer thinks a bout of app bashing will change the subject. Poser customers deserve better than this type of discussion.
You said I don't know what I'm talking about, but I sure see a few pages of you trying to change the subject every time I disprove one of your points, you know like not knowing about development with V4. And evidently I knew enough to be a beta tester for Poser 2012, and if they didn't have so many issues with the workflow that the devs couldn't give me answers to, I would have finished that ryan 2 character that SM asked me to make.
We're done here. Hitting this ignore button is overdue.
You haven't disproven anything. You're claiming that Poser doesn't have features that it clearly does have and refuse to accept that you're wrong when you say that you can't export a grouped figure or import morphs for that figure when you can, and anybody making content using the latest features knows that you can, and I'm the one that's app bashing? Wow, the hypocrisy. Development with V4 was over 10 years ago. A lot of things have changed since then. Her development is irrelevant to todays functionality. Poser is capable of creating, combining, modifying and splitting morphs without ever leaving Poser. Full body morphs to jcms for clothing. It's also capable of creating figures and conforming clothing that don't even have groups, entirely weightmapped to the figure's rig. Not a very conventional way of going about it but still quite possible. I've built and modified dozens of figures for Poser and clothing to go with them using these features, but I'm the one that's wrong. OK.
DreaminGirl posted at 5:19PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318460
So basically, the complaint is that Smith Micro is not Daz3D. Vive la difference..
The subject was how to get more Poser content. I gave my thoughts on it because I have my content needs met because there's a focus on getting vendors acquainted with the features and workflows to make products so there's that. At least my posts were aimed at being helpful and constructive; I would think since people want things from vendors they'd want them to have the resources they need, otherwise someone else will give them that support. And that's where we are. It is what it is until it changes.
So its:
Customer: Where has all the Poser content gone?
Ex Poser Vendor: Sorry, Poser is just more difficult to create content with and it's not as viable as other platforms for profitability in sales of the product.
Other Vendors: That's pretty true.
Poser Ambassador: You're wrong vendors, Poser is just as good as Daz Studio to create in, I create in it all the time. In fact it's so good to create in that I rarely buy any content at all these days. And what you said about Poser is simply not true, Poser definitely doesn't need a figure such as Genesis shackling them down like a tail wagging a dog or something...
Customer: Wanders off
Vendors: Wander off
Razor42 posted at 3:49AM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318478
Poser definitely doesn't need a figure such as Genesis shackling them down like a tail wagging a dog or something...
I never said that.
Poser needs it's own genesis-like figure, which is what I've been saying for the last 4 or 5 years now.
The tech exists in Poser to do that and get it 95% of the way there. It just hasn't been done yet - least not on an 'available to the public' level.
AmbientShade posted at 9:37PM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318497
Poser needs it's own genesis-like figure, which is what I've been saying for the last 4 or 5 years now.
The tech exists in Poser to do that and get it 95% of the way there. It just hasn't been done yet - least not on an 'available to the public' level.
Or the tech could be made to adapt to one of the biggest 3rd party content markets out there atm. Or maybe there is Paul and Pauline 2 on the horizon for Poser 12. Or EroGenesis's long awaited golden girl waiting to shine a light. Or maybe just more Dawn and Dusk...
I mean its great to have a video player with it's own super exclusive codec. But a better one plays them all right? Or its developers needs to work pretty hard on delivering great content in that codec direct to it's user base.
Do you ever think what was the major figures series in Poser's most dynamic years for 3rd party content dev? If Poser is serious about delivering content it's strange that it can just ignore a mass of content that is their and 'almost' ready for it's user base (I mean has anyone costed this out at SM, or is it all still just running on grudge mode?). The new storefront for Content paradise was an interesting move, but it's still looking a little flat to me or maybe it's just a portal for SM software sales.
You know what I would love to see, scripted Poser converters for Daz Studio PBR shader's, native Genesis figure support. Direct pipelines to work between the two apps so users can utilise the best of both UI's and render systems. Easy translation so vendors can move products or projects between both app's with a minimum of effort and access both customer/user bases. More cross platform freedom for the developers and the midnight tweekers on both UI's to interact together and collaborate between the two quite similar systems. But I guess it's more profitable for someone, somewhere that we all just compete directly. Promoting exclusivity. Or maybe Poser's investments funds are just better spent on a Metaballs plugin... Wonder what Larry says...
Razor42 posted at 6:20AM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318478
So its:
Customer: Where has all the Poser content gone?
Ex Poser Vendor: Sorry, Poser is just more difficult to create content with and it's not as viable as other platforms for profitability in sales of the product.
Other Vendors: That's pretty true.
Poser Ambassador: You're wrong vendors, Poser is just as good as Daz Studio to create in, I create in it all the time. In fact it's so good to create in that I rarely buy any content at all these days. And what you said about Poser is simply not true, Poser definitely doesn't need a figure such as Genesis shackling them down like a tail wagging a dog or something...
Customer: Wanders off
Vendors: Wander off
Also SM needs re-evaluate their ambassador program, starting by removing everyone. Instead of being helpful and promoting the product to get customers to use it, they've done the opposite, generating unflattering renders and examples that don't sell the product, and when someone (customer or vendor) makes a valid suggestion, they become aggressive and attack customers and run them off. This is especially bad on the official forum, even threatening them with bans. They've done more harm than good in getting new poser content into the market and SM really needs to address this as well. Realize ambassadors are basically marketers, and as such, they need to behave in a higher standard as this is a reflection of SM. Potential customers shouldn't see them fighting and insulting others, especially when they aren't adding anything constructive to the conversation. If they aren't able to market, be helpful and be respectful, they need to resign their post and get people who can.
Also realize with most of the development staff replaced with people in Portugal, ambassadors are pretty much the only go between for customers and staff. This should be an opportunity to get that staff's ear to get Poser where it needs to be. Right now there are issues, otherwise this thread and others like it wouldn't exist. So if there is an issue with content, the ambassadors should be seriously taking suggestions on how to address this to SM; they shouldn't squander this opportunity, especially in light of they want to be competitive and make the product better. If there is an issue with content, and the way the company is doing things is no longer working, then it makes sense to help facilitate getting vendors what they need to use the product ambassadors are trying to promote people to use.
Razor42 posted at 6:36AM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318502
Or the tech could be made to adapt to one of the biggest 3rd party content markets out there atm.
Yes, and chevy parts could be made to adapt to Toyota. Microsoft parts could be made to adapt to macs, etc. Or they could develop their own tech and find better ways to broaden their own customer base. And that content can already be adapted to Poser anyway. Anything that can be exported from DS (or any other software) as an obj can be imported to Poser and rigged, textured, etc. It's not an automated process tho, there's some work involved.
Do you ever think what was the major figures series in Poser's most dynamic years for 3rd party content dev? If Poser is serious about delivering content it's strange that it can just ignore a mass of content that is their and 'almost' ready for it's user base (I mean has anyone costed this out at SM, or is it all still just running on grudge mode?). The new storefront for Content paradise was an interesting move, but it's still looking a little flat to me or maybe it's just a portal for SM software sales.
See that part that I bolded there? That's the key difference between the two. One relies entirely on content sales and gives its software away for free. The other develops and sells software that its customers can use to make mostly whatever they want and do whatever they want with. Doesn't mean content isn't important or doesn't enhance software sales. Just that they aren't as reliant on content sales as the other guys are. It's an additional stream of revenue, not the foundation of their business model. Maybe they'll move in that direction eventually, who knows. But if Poser wasn't selling, or wasn't producing enough of a profit for the company, then they wouldn't still be developing it. So somebody must be buying it. Enough somebodies for it to still be profitable to continue developing.
So let me understand if I am hearing you correctly here Ambient?
You're taking the time to write comments here on a Website that is primarily a Content Market Place, in the Marketplace Customer support section in a thread asking "Where has all the Poser Content gone?" telling people that "Anything that can be exported from DS (or any other software) as an obj can be imported to Poser and rigged, textured, etc. It's not an automated process tho, there's some work involved." Doesn't this ring a bit hollow to you? Ask yourself who it is that you are really arguing with here, who are you trying to convince that this is a viable pipeline to access content for Poser users? Are you trying to show that actual Customers asking really don't actually want Poser content made by 3rd parties? They actually prefer to make it themselves. Really tbh I am at a loss as to your motivation here.
Do you know who wants ready made content ready to render? Professional developers, artists and animators, hobbyists that aren't excited by learning to rig an entire figure just to do a Pinup render of a girl sitting on a bomb. Almost all Poser users want access to at least some professional 3rd party content from what I can see. Why are you pushing so hard to niche the Poser platform to a small group of tinkerers who shun 3rd party content and especially Daz 3D content? And why here in a content marketplace forum? The rest of your comment is pretty out there also, with some wild idea about businesses operations which seems based on pushed analogies that are designed to convince others as to what you think Poser should be, not as to what makes good business sense or what has proven successful in the past. Or for that matter fulfilling the requirements of all parties involved with Poser or it's potential customer base. Plus your company examples are quite funny, as all the opposing companies you mentioned have worked quite extensively together in the past. Collaborating, Cross party investing, shared third party resources and mutual development can be found in every company you mentioned.
"But if Poser wasn't selling, or wasn't producing enough of a profit for the company, then they wouldn't still be developing it."
Ever wonder why they needed to retrench the whole Poser development team and move the entire graphics division to Portugal? Including some of the developers that had created Poser (Larry Weinberg etc) and worked with if for years. The new Product manager for Poser and SM's other graphics software comes straight from a Fashion focused e-commerce company... As far as the rest of the development team from what I understand it's a shoestring development project now, right? A couple of developers in Serbia and a few more in the mobile software company branch in Braga Portugal.
Some of you seem to forget that prior to the release of P11, the Poser team DID in fact approach Daz3d about incorporating genesis tech, but Daz3d turned them down. (I can't be arsed finding the post about it now, but it is out there in a forum somewhere, I believe it was nerd who said it) So that ship is sailed regardless. Stop bringing it up, because it won't happen. Daz3d said no.
DreaminGirl posted at 2:04PM Thu, 23 November 2017 - #4318564
Some of you seem to forget that prior to the release of P11, the Poser team DID in fact approach Daz3d about incorporating genesis tech, but Daz3d turned them down. (I can't be arsed finding the post about it now, but it is out there in a forum somewhere) So that ship is sailed regardless. Stop bringing it up, because it won't happen. Daz3d said no.
Maybe the terms brought forward by the SM development team at that time were not suitable to Daz 3D, after Daz 3D had already spent years attempting to work with SM and the Poser platform only to be given the run around. That doesn't mean that a future deal may not be possible or it's not worth considering or discussing. Unless of course that wealth of content is not wanted by Poser users.
The issue here is a decline in Poser ready content which stems from a number of issues. Primarily a lack of base content for developers to build from. A decline in the numbers and in turn purchasing power of Poser users forcing 3rd party content vendors to push development elsewhere. The lack of a Vendor support culture within SM. And It's not helped by a culture of Poser experts who seem to think there is no actual issue and people should just get over it. Customers don't get over it, if they can't make a platform meet their needs they will move on to a new one.
If you want to come at this from the angle that Poser is a development tool and not a point and click render system, that's fine but why attempt to make that point on a Content Marketplace site, in the Marketplace support forum to an OP who wants to know why they no longer can get the range of content they once had access to.
DreaminGirl posted at 11:57PM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318564
Some of you seem to forget that prior to the release of P11, the Poser team DID in fact approach Daz3d about incorporating genesis tech, but Daz3d turned them down. (I can't be arsed finding the post about it now, but it is out there in a forum somewhere, I believe it was nerd who said it) So that ship is sailed regardless. Stop bringing it up, because it won't happen. Daz3d said no.
That wasn't the conversation.
Prior to the release of P11, Nerd contacted DAZ3D about updating the DSON importer for P11, not incorporate the Genesis tech. This contact was months after there was no contact from SM as there was a round of layoffs (that's when Steve and several poser devs left) and DAZ couldn't reach anyone. Keep in mind DAZ3D gave poser a list of things they needed to do if they wanted genesis to work better, like finishing the specification on the pixar subdivision (which wasn't complete in poser 2014) and that due to performance issues they've taking the importer as far as they could. Considering this was about a year of silence, that's was during the time genesis 3 was made using the industry standard dual quaterion instead of their proprietary triax and they worked on their collada and FBX exports, since one of SM's complaints was they didn't want to be tied to DAZ tech, they could simply use industry standard formats to import genesis into the program. That's when they pretty much abandoned the DSON importer for newer figures. So really it wasn't until after DAZ released Genesis 3 SM, after months of silence, that SM wanted an update to the discontinued importer. I'm not sure if DAZ responded, but they probably pointed out since they did want to use the importer and the sales of poser content got to the point that it wasn't feasible to continue development, that they could still get Genesis imported by using FBX or Collada for import and switch to dual quaternion, addressing their concerns. So yeah, DAZ said no because they discontinued development on the DSON importer for genesis 3, but nothing is stopping SM from putting the capability of dual quaterion weight mapping into the program and reading genesis in that way.
So although you wouldn't get every capability of genesis, SM could simply switch weightmapping and read the FBX spec and load genesis without DAZ involvement or tech if they choose. DAZ set Genesis 3 so the base (without geografting) could be imported using industry standards, because the base genesis can be loaded in programs like Maya because of FBX. If nerd had contacted DAZ about natively importing the DSON spec to read genesis, that would have been a different conversation (because that would be the only way to make genesis work better in poser), but that wasn't the conversation that was had.
But other than that, this is really water under the bridge and the subject is getting Poser content to customers, not convert DAZ content. And that subject really needs to leave DAZ talk out of it, and get SM involved with their vendors so it's easier for them to get out content with their newest tech to get customers motivated to buy new content and get new customers to buy Poser. SM should be and is responsible for their customer content needs, any talk about what DAZ3D has or should do should be left out of it. Yes there is a divide between the companies, but DAZ3D has set it up so that their content could be used and imported using industry standards, which was a complaint that was seen many times in these forums, the ball is in SM court if they choose to support those standards.
Razor42 posted at 10:21PM Sat, 25 November 2017 - #4318562
So let me understand if I am hearing you correctly here Ambient?
You're taking the time to write comments here on a Website that is primarily a Content Market Place, in the Marketplace Customer support section in a thread asking "Where has all the Poser Content gone?" telling people that "Anything that can be exported from DS (or any other software) as an obj can be imported to Poser and rigged, textured, etc. It's not an automated process tho, there's some work involved." Doesn't this ring a bit hollow to you?
No, because it's the truth. Example: I have G2M working in Poser, with all its morphs. I simply exported the cr2 from DS to its own runtime and linked it to my Poser library. It took all of 5 minutes to do, and did not require DSON importer. I don't even have DSON installed. I haven't bothered fixing the eye mats because it was just a test a while back to see how easy/complicated it was. So far that's the only issue in his overall functionality that I've found. Willdial has developed a script to convert G3 and G8 to Poser and from what I've seen it seems to work just as well and the G2 export does.
Ask yourself who it is that you are really arguing with here, who are you trying to convince that this is a viable pipeline to access content for Poser users? Are you trying to show that actual Customers asking really don't actually want Poser content made by 3rd parties? They actually prefer to make it themselves. Really tbh I am at a loss as to your motivation here.
I'm not 'arguing' with anyone. The rest of that statement doesn't even make sense and has nothing to do with anything I've said.
Do you know who wants ready made content ready to render? Professional developers, artists and animators, hobbyists that aren't excited by learning to rig an entire figure just to do a Pinup render of a girl sitting on a bomb. Almost all Poser users want access to at least some professional 3rd party content from what I can see.
Why are you pushing so hard to niche the Poser platform to a small group of tinkerers who shun 3rd party content and especially Daz 3D content?
I'm not and it's a pretty far stretch to suggest that I am. I said that Poser needs to develop its own content and tech that rivals its competition, not strap itself to its competition with licensing fees and saddling its developers with obligations to spend half or more of their time writing updates and patches every time daz changes direction with what they do next, which is exactly what would be required if what you suggest was fully implemented - in essence making Poser a DS clone. How would that benefit Poser or SM, since they would just be trying to sell exactly what people can already get for free.
And why here in a content marketplace forum? The rest of your comment is pretty out there also, with some wild idea about businesses operations which seems based on pushed analogies that are designed to convince others as to what you think Poser should be, not as to what makes good business sense or what has proven successful in the past. Or for that matter fulfilling the requirements of all parties involved with Poser or it's potential customer base. Plus your company examples are quite funny, as all the opposing companies you mentioned have worked quite extensively together in the past. Collaborating, Cross party investing, shared third party resources and mutual development can be found in every company you mentioned.
Collaboration is not the same as making interchangeable parts. Try putting a Z-71 water pump on a Tundra. See how far you get with that. And when it doesn't work fill Toyota's forums with demands that they make it work because you find Chevy parts superior to Toyota parts and if they don't meet those demands then Toyota will fail. Why can't I put my Asus motherboard in my macbook pro?
Ever wonder why they needed to retrench the whole Poser development team and move the entire graphics division to Portugal?...
Poser is a small part of SM's portfolio and restructuring is not uncommon in larger companies. There could be any number of reasons why they did what they did with their graphics division. Usually development of products is moved elsewhere to lower costs and increase revenue. It doesn't mean the product is performing poorly in sales. Maybe they wanted new developers on the project to give it a new vision or direction. Why do top rated tv shows routinely replace their writing teams? If Poser wasn't performing to SM's satisfaction, or at least showed the potential to do so, then why are they still developing it?
There's a lot of things I'd like to see both added and improved on with the next version of Poser, but merging it with DS, or making it a DS clone is not one of them. You seem to think that Poser should license DS's tech so that the content for DS "flows seamlessly between the two apps". How would that benefit SM? The app that DS content "works seamlessly" in is already available for free, and as DS content vendors have already stated, adding Poser support to their content has not resulted in any significant increase to their overall sales which is why many have stopped including it. So explain how it would benefit Poser, or those wanting more Poser content - as making G3+ Poser compatible requires far more than just the addition of dual quaternion rigging. What incentive would content vendors have to continue making their content compatible with Poser?
Developing new content for Poser that equals or surpasses the quality of the content for DS, along with adding and developing new features that DS and other competitors do not have, is how Poser grows its demand for content.
Add to that, content created 'for the masses' is far more involved than content created for personal use. You can get away with a lot more shortcuts when building content for yourself than you can when you're building content to sell. Since the introduction of Pro, Poser has been steadily moving more towards the 'DIYers' and indie devs, at least from my perspective. With every new release the majority of features have been geared towards content creation and modification, making it more of a tool box than just a delivery platform. There are no limitations or stipulations placed on its features regarding what you can do with the content you create. As long as you have a pro license, every feature of the software is available to you to do with as you please. This gives more people the option of making and modifying their own stuff, and reduces their dependency on content vendors. Bad for content vendors, +1 for end users. It keeps things open and unregulated, the way art should be. The fitting room, for example, is one big area that puts more control in the hands of the end user and reduces their dependency on vendors. It's not a tool intended for vendors because of how it (currently) creates the new clothing. But for someone who wants to fit a V4 outfit to Jessie or Pauline, for example, it's pretty handy. In a few minutes they have that outfit for their chosen figure and can move on with rendering it without caring about whether it's a welded obj. That's the sort of thing only vendors have to deal with.
That doesn't mean we don't need content or vendors, and I'm not saying that we don't - more content, more variation is always good - just that there is less of a demand for them because of the features that have been added in recent versions, for those willing to learn how to use them.
AmbientShade posted at 9:27AM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318665
I'm not and it's a pretty far stretch to suggest that I am. I said that Poser needs to develop its own content and tech that rivals its competition, not strap itself to its competition with licensing fees and saddling its developers with obligations to spend half or more of their time writing updates and patches every time daz changes direction with what they do next, which is exactly what would be required if what you suggest was fully implemented - in essence making Poser a DS clone. How would that benefit Poser or SM, since they would just be trying to sell exactly what people can already get for free.
The irony of that statement is that Poser was the first to hit DAZ with licensing fees. Remember that V4 face room debacle where after years of creating content Poser suddenly wanted DAZ to pay an exorbitant fee to make their newest figure face room compatible? That was a big part of what started it all.
Remember when DAZ didn't want to strap itself to a software that wasn't being updated, therefore leaving their content and livelihood to stagnant so that they had no choice but to create a software so they could move forward?
And really the complaint is that DAZ moves forward? They created DAZ Studio in order to keep moving forward, it was kind of the point.
AmbientShade posted at 9:32AM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318668
Add to that, content created 'for the masses' is far more involved than content created for personal use. You can get away with a lot more shortcuts when building content for yourself than you can when you're building content to sell. Since the introduction of Pro, Poser has been steadily moving more towards the 'DIYers' and indie devs, at least from my perspective. With every new release the majority of features have been geared towards content creation and modification, making it more of a tool box than just a delivery platform. There are no limitations or stipulations placed on its features regarding what you can do with the content you create. As long as you have a pro license, every feature of the software is available to you to do with as you please. This gives more people the option of making and modifying their own stuff, and reduces their dependency on content vendors. Bad for content vendors, +1 for end users. It keeps things open and unregulated, the way art should be. The fitting room, for example, is one big area that puts more control in the hands of the end user and reduces their dependency on vendors. It's not a tool intended for vendors because of how it (currently) creates the new clothing. But for someone who wants to fit a V4 outfit to Jessie or Pauline, for example, it's pretty handy. In a few minutes they have that outfit for their chosen figure and can move on with rendering it without caring about whether it's a welded obj. That's the sort of thing only vendors have to deal with.
That doesn't mean we don't need content or vendors, and I'm not saying that we don't - more content, more variation is always good - just that there is less of a demand >for them because of the features that have been added in recent versions, for those willing to learn how to use them.
So you are basically agreeing, as a Poser Ambassador, that for a content creator Poser is NOT as viable a software to create content for to earn income.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
jennblake posted at 3:29PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318680
Ok everyone. This was originally posted by a buyer who wanted to know why there wasn't more Poser content. And although I realize that this is a valid discussion...maybe it is one we should have in the Poser forum at this point.
I am moving this thread.
I don't think it's a valid discussion. I think it should be locked. It's gone from asking about Poser content to one sided software bashing.
3-DArena posted at 6:04PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318678
So you are basically agreeing, as a Poser Ambassador, that for a content creator Poser is NOT as viable a software to create content for to earn income.
No, I'm saying that after years of users begging vendors to create content for other figures, and something more than the 100,000th bikini, and consistently being ignored, devs gave end users more tools to create and modify the content that's out there to better suit their needs. It's not much different than what DS does with its autofit features, only it doesn't require templates and isn't limited to a particular set of existing figures. I should make a correction though - the fitting room is usable by vendors for quick transfer of rigging to clothing, that just wasn't the promoted example use of it. The tools don't limit content creation for vendors, they expand the use of content to more figures.
I'm not aware of licensing fees for V4 and the face room. First I've heard of it in fact.
Instead of locking threads, maybe provide examples to counter the negative claims. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to have a productive discussion about content creation for Poser, in the Poser forum, especially if it helps to dispel the myths that it's difficult.
Folks advocating using DS and g figures believe that as an enduser, I should settle for their vision of "art". At the end of the day, there is a reason Poser users don't use DS - we've tried it (it's free, after all), and found it wanting.
Even if I was willing to stay in the pinup garden - why on earth would I drop $15 - $20 an outfit, when I can get literally hundreds of V4 outfits for $1.99 each (over at DAZ). JHC, Friday, I purchased almost $400 worth of V4/M4 content over at Daz for less than $60. Characters for 52 CENTS. Outfits for 79 CENTS.
What can I do with that? Run the clothing through the fitting room - now available for ANY figure I choose. AFA characters, harvest the skins, and they are also available for ANY figure I choose. And yes, I have purchased a number of characters just to harvest the skin textures.
Daz didn't do that 80% off sale for M4/V4 for folks that use the g figures, just like they did that DSON sale a few weeks back - they are chasing after Poser users.
Too many people here confuse vendors financial health with the software's health. Vendors come, vendors go. The reality is that most of them won't be missed - Sturgeons Law applies here, just as it does everywhere else.
IMO, Poser has been moving to DIYers' because of vendor intransigence. Too many vendors depend on their users having "learned helplessness" and accepting whatever the vendor deigned to make.
I'm working on a Star Trek TOS comic (for my own amusement). I need everybody in the same outfit. With Poser - everybody is wearing either the M4 Valiant or the V4 Courageous outfit. Daz native figures, Poser native figures, even figures I have imported via FBX.
Can't do that in DS, because the underlying tech only works with the g figures. And no, the g figures aren't a solution, again thanks to vendors (95% Caucasians don't work - need more ethnic variety - another reason to stay with a weight mapped, subdivided V4/M4, along with all of the others in my menagerie). I use whatever I need, and I am not limited by platform. G figures can easily be moved to Poser, whereas the opposite is not true.
And the same can be said for any other genre outside of pin up and/or fantasy. I pull clothing from all figures, because that is the only way I can dress my cast of characters.
Poser users are no longer dependent on whims of the vendor.
As a final note - I'd point out that to get Poser Pro levels of tools in DS, you are spending Poser Pro money for add-ons.
AmbientShade posted at 8:37PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318697
3-DArena posted at 6:04PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318678
So you are basically agreeing, as a Poser Ambassador, that for a content creator Poser is NOT as viable a software to create content for to earn income.
No, I'm saying that after years of users begging vendors to create content for other figures, and something more than the 100,000th bikini, and consistently being ignored, devs gave end users more tools to create and modify the content that's out there to better suit their needs. It's not much different than what DS does with its autofit features, only it doesn't require templates and isn't limited to a particular set of existing figures. I should make a correction though - the fitting room is usable by vendors for quick transfer of rigging to clothing, that just wasn't the promoted example use of it. The tools don't limit content creation for vendors, they expand the use of content to more figures.
I'm not aware of licensing fees for V4 and the face room. First I've heard of it in fact.
Instead of locking threads, maybe provide examples to counter the negative claims. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to have a productive discussion about content creation for Poser, in the Poser forum, especially if it helps to dispel the myths that it's difficult.
They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?
EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703
They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?
Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.
The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.
I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.
The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
3-DArena posted at 1:34PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318725
EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703
They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?
Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.
The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.
I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.
The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.
I've never criticized Studio or Studio users, and for the most part that includes the vendors. I never liked that Studio existed. and I've told that to Chris Creek. He and I discussed it, and while I still don't like the split it's caused in the community, I accept that it's here and it's time to move on. There are some good things I like about Studio. I'm not going to name them because I really don't give a crap what anyone else thinks about it.
My site, while Poser -centric , can be used by anybody, even Studio users. And yes, you are included because you do have Poser content in the Renderosity store.
Now, what ever I said that you may have attributed to me as being negative towards Studio users or vendors was directed primarily at Male Media. I consider him an instigator. I personally think he likes to start fights in Poser threads to get them shut down. I am NOT his biggest fan. I don't necessarily agree with what Razor 42 has said either, but I do see him in a more positive light. Whenever I've been trying to learn something in Studio in an effort to make something compatible I've made for Dawn or Dusk, for example, he has been nice enough to step up and take the time to show me or at least explain to me how to get it to work, and I greatly appreciate that. I'm never going to be a Studio user. If Poser ever does go out of business, I'm moving to Blender.
EClark1894 posted at 2:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318731
3-DArena posted at 1:34PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318725
EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703
They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?
Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.
The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.
I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.
The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.
Now, what ever I said that you may have attributed to me as being negative towards Studio users or vendors was directed primarily at Male Media. I consider him an instigator. I personally think he likes to start fights in Poser threads to get them shut down. I am NOT his biggest fan.
Discussions aren't popularity contests, and most times people don't even listen to what I say and instantly think it's an attack. Please go back an read what I actually said in the thread instead of what you thought I said.
My posts were advocating SM get in touch with vendors and work with them to get them up to speed with new features and get their input so that encourages vendors to produce the content poser users want using the latest features. I'm not sure how posting something to help poser users was such a problem and causes a problem, unless people don't want vendors to get access to SM's resources. If you want to explain how SM giving vendors a leg up in making Poser content is a problem, you can give your explanation. I also flagged a few vendors that used to make poser content, as they've been watching the thread when it was in the market support forum, so they will be interested in hearing why my post was an issue. And please don't mention other companies, because you see this post doesn't mention as this deals with what Poser needs to do and doing so will mean you didn't read this post either.
Male_M3dia posted at 3:15PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318734
EClark1894 posted at 2:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318731
3-DArena posted at 1:34PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318725
EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703
They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?
Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.
The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.
I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.
The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.
Now, what ever I said that you may have attributed to me as being negative towards Studio users or vendors was directed primarily at Male Media. I consider him an instigator. I personally think he likes to start fights in Poser threads to get them shut down. I am NOT his biggest fan.
Discussions aren't popularity contests, and most times people don't even listen to what I say and instantly think it's an attack. Please go back an read what I actually said in the thread instead of what you thought I said.
My posts were advocating SM get in touch with vendors and work with them to get them up to speed with new features and get their input so that encourages vendors to produce the content poser users want using the latest features. I'm not sure how posting something to help poser users was such a problem and causes a problem, unless people don't want vendors to get access to SM's resources. If you want to explain how SM giving vendors a leg up in making Poser content is a problem, you can give your explanation. I also flagged a few vendors that used to make poser content, as they've been watching the thread when it was in the market support forum, so they will be interested in hearing why my post was an issue. And please don't mention other companies, because you see this post doesn't mention as this deals with what Poser needs to do and doing so will mean you didn't read this post either.
How is that productive. SM already produces tutorials and webinars showing people, users and vendors how to use it's features. Hell, I've got a page full of links to Poser tutorials on my directory covering most if not all of the features Poser has. Just click on the button on the index page marked Tutorials.
EClark1894 posted at 4:00PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318740
Male_M3dia posted at 3:15PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318734
EClark1894 posted at 2:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318731
3-DArena posted at 1:34PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318725
EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703
They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?
Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.
The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.
I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.
The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.
Now, what ever I said that you may have attributed to me as being negative towards Studio users or vendors was directed primarily at Male Media. I consider him an instigator. I personally think he likes to start fights in Poser threads to get them shut down. I am NOT his biggest fan.
Discussions aren't popularity contests, and most times people don't even listen to what I say and instantly think it's an attack. Please go back an read what I actually said in the thread instead of what you thought I said.
My posts were advocating SM get in touch with vendors and work with them to get them up to speed with new features and get their input so that encourages vendors to produce the content poser users want using the latest features. I'm not sure how posting something to help poser users was such a problem and causes a problem, unless people don't want vendors to get access to SM's resources. If you want to explain how SM giving vendors a leg up in making Poser content is a problem, you can give your explanation. I also flagged a few vendors that used to make poser content, as they've been watching the thread when it was in the market support forum, so they will be interested in hearing why my post was an issue. And please don't mention other companies, because you see this post doesn't mention as this deals with what Poser needs to do and doing so will mean you didn't read this post either.
How is that productive. SM already produces tutorials and webinars showing people, users and vendors how to use it's features. Hell, I've got a page full of links to Poser tutorials on my directory covering most if not all of the features Poser has. Just click on the button on the index page marked Tutorials.
Again, I'm talking about specialized resources and contacts dealing with vendors, not generic one-shot webinars and tutorials that have no avenue for followup. There is no SM/vendor relationship. That's what I've advocating and it seems others are arguing against. Again, how is developing that relationship a bad thing? It's a very good thing to have.
Male_M3dia posted at 4:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318741
Again, I'm talking about specialized resources and contacts dealing with vendors, not generic one-shot webinars and tutorials that have no avenue for followup. There is no SM/vendor relationship. That's what I've advocating and it seems others are arguing against. Again, how is developing that relationship a bad thing? It's a very good thing to have.
It's not a bad thing. SM could do a better job of it. But there are no additional tools privy only to select vendors like there are in DS. Everyone with a pro license has access to the same tools, whether you're a vendor or an end user. As for early development, beta testers (which consist of a lot of vendors and would-be vendors) are given access to those tools and shown how to use them before the general public does. It's up to them whether they actually use them in their new content or not. If you're saying that SM should grow a network of dedicated vendors, then I can agree with that. I can also agree that SM should do more to promote some of the best poser content artists. No complaints there.
AmbientShade posted at 8:02AM Tue, 28 November 2017 - #4318742
Male_M3dia posted at 4:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318741
Again, I'm talking about specialized resources and contacts dealing with vendors, not generic one-shot webinars and tutorials that have no avenue for followup. There is no SM/vendor relationship. That's what I've advocating and it seems others are arguing against. Again, how is developing that relationship a bad thing? It's a very good thing to have.
It's not a bad thing. SM could do a better job of it. But there are no additional tools privy only to select vendors like there are in DS. Everyone with a pro license has access to the same tools, whether you're a vendor or an end user. As for early development, beta testers (which consist of a lot of vendors and would-be vendors) are given access to those tools and shown how to use them before the general public does. It's up to them whether they actually use them in their new content or not. If you're saying that SM should grow a network of dedicated vendors, then I can agree with that. I can also agree that SM should do more to promote some of the best poser content artists. No complaints there.
I don't know if I agree with that. I think you're asking SM to get into the content business. They're not a content oriented company. They don't do it very well. And only half heartedly when they attempt it. If they're going to do what you suggest, I think they should just partner up with a third party and let them handle all of the content development including recruiting and training the vendors. SM could then just focus all of it's time and resources on Poser's development.
EClark1894 posted at 8:45AM Tue, 28 November 2017 - #4318770
AmbientShade posted at 8:02AM Tue, 28 November 2017 - #4318742
Male_M3dia posted at 4:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318741
Again, I'm talking about specialized resources and contacts dealing with vendors, not generic one-shot webinars and tutorials that have no avenue for followup. There is no SM/vendor relationship. That's what I've advocating and it seems others are arguing against. Again, how is developing that relationship a bad thing? It's a very good thing to have.
It's not a bad thing. SM could do a better job of it. But there are no additional tools privy only to select vendors like there are in DS. Everyone with a pro license has access to the same tools, whether you're a vendor or an end user. As for early development, beta testers (which consist of a lot of vendors and would-be vendors) are given access to those tools and shown how to use them before the general public does. It's up to them whether they actually use them in their new content or not. If you're saying that SM should grow a network of dedicated vendors, then I can agree with that. I can also agree that SM should do more to promote some of the best poser content artists. No complaints there.
I don't know if I agree with that. I think you're asking SM to get into the content business. They're not a content oriented company. They don't do it very well. And only half heartedly when they attempt it. If they're going to do what you suggest, I think they should just partner up with a third party and let them handle all of the content development including recruiting and training the vendors. SM could then just focus all of it's time and resources on Poser's development.
No I'm not saying that they should get into the content business, but they need to understand they need to be responsive to the needs of those that are. I'm saying there is a disconnect between SM and the vendors that needs to be addressed. That involves starting a relationship so not only vendors know how to properly use the features that they put into their program, but make sure those features meet the vendors' needs completely in order to make content. Also this relationship will help SM understand what the content makers needsand their workflows are and provide solutions in their software to make their job easier and from this there could be some best practices that can be shared to make content consistent across the various market places.
So this part of your post:
If you're saying that SM should grow a network of dedicated vendors, then I can agree with that. I can also agree that SM should do more to promote some of the best poser content artists. No complaints there.
Is sort of correct. I'm saying they should network with a group of vendors on making sure they know the new features, and from that address any needs they have in making poser content. Then those vendors and SM can disseminate that information into the community as standards for developing content. Note I'm not talking about a partnership for a 3rd party to make content, but a direct relationship between the two so that vendors get the most out of Poser and Poser includes the features that vendors need to compete.
My thoughts on this subject are as follows:
I agree with Ambientshade that for SM the company to officially try to make poser a native environment for DAZ genesis is a fools gambit.
Daz genesis is very popular with professional users in the Autodesk & maxon communities.
Search for DAZ genesis threads over on Cgsociety.org
Now... Are Autodesk , Maxon New Tek, updating their Core applications (Maya MAX ,C4D) , to run genesis "natively"?? No..
Daz already has an excellent native FBX exporter and optional paid MDD& Alembic Exporters.
I have poser pro 2014 Maxon Cinema4D Newtek Lightwave 2015 Reallusion Iclone Pro 6 .
I spend alot of time in those online communites Often time peopl are not even aware that poser stillexists but they have heard of Daz Genesis
Third party Developers have found the Genesis Quality high enough to risk developing Commercial plugins that import AND convert genesis to Their specific IK control systems for animation.
Google "3dtoall DAZ to Maya"
Google "people in motion Daz genesis C4D"
They have done so without any official endorsement from Autodesk or Maxon etc. Some are just using plain vanilla FBX Alembic or MDD I use MDD to get Hi SubD animated genesis mesh to C4D for my animated films
Poser users Have to convince SM to create native figures that Do not look like some bloody crash test dummy from the late 1990,s/early 2000's
Sorry but it is the truth..
People can croon all day about content creation strategies but third parties wont get excited about developing for figure that look like pauline .not in 2017/2018......sorry
Poser content creators need to convince SM to at least implement a decent Equivalent of the DAZ transfer tool & Autofit at a minimum.
When I decided to exit the Daz content hamster wheel and learned to model my own clothing I was taken a back by how easy it was to go from static .obj in C4D to conformed outfit in DS ..Literally three clicks and can dial in any of my hundreds of characters both human& Alien and have my custom clothing follow the(sometimes extreme) shape. No "fitting room" sessions or any such other teduim
And when I needed to move my CG self clone from Mike2 up to the genesis 2 male My MODO face sculpt .obj was a breeze to import via morphloader pro.
I honestly would not be making my own clothing if poser was my only source for figures.
Content creators left poser for DS, for two prevailing reasons. A lack of easy to use content creation tool operating under a UNIFORM STANDARD
and the severe absence of an attractive early twenties looking, WHITE FEMALE base model who uses modern figure tech.
"ProjectE" can be as young,Skinny & white as she wants But if that figure has some exotic riggin scheme that requires alot of manul work to make NEW clothing (not recylcled V4 booty shorts)...New Clothing it will not be largely embraced by the surviving poser content devs that it my prediction.
And people who want genesis in poser need to keep supporting third party coders like willdial Perhaps financially with crowd funding, because that is the only way it will continue going forward IMO.
There are many ways to light Europe :-)
Yeah, about that Wolf.........
Have you actually looked at the g figures? They are anatomically accurate as any Poser figure. That is to say, they aren't.
I would HOPE that figure conversion would only take a couple of clicks in a $1,799 copy of Modo, to get it into a $2,621 copy of Cinema4d. If you are moving stuff around those software packages, there's a reason those packages cost what they do.
I'm glad to see that DS is starting to get the level of interchangeability that we have had for at least a decade with Poser. I am also glad that they now have the feature set of Poser 5.
If I want to add weight mapping, subdivision, control surfaces, and such to M2, I don't have to drop $4K in software. I just fire up Poser and add them. Just sayin'.
AFA Project E, you should peruse the thread over on the SM forum. Nothing exotic, and Ero seems to have developed a better mousetrap for clothing conversion. Pay particular attention to the wireframe image of the pair of V4 jeans that Project E is wearing - it's done entirely within Poser.
As a Poser user, I'm not too concerned about the g figures, especially G3/8 - they look (and perform) exactly like their V4 ancestors, albeit at a higher cost. The major difference is I can add control surfaces to
Can you guys not do this DS/Poser war in this thread? The poor horse has suffered enough and the only thing this will do is get yet another thread lock. The topic deals with how Poser users can get more content, not which software is better and can do what.
Sorry Terrence I Cant control the predictable, emotional ,pavlovian reaction of some people who spring out of their myopic little box with the same tired "looka what me can do wit poser" prattle, at the mere mention of Daz studio and genesis.
I was speaking specifically to the suggestion by some that the way forward for poser is for SM to Retool poser to accept Native Genesis Figures & Content .
This assumes that there still exist some binary realtionship between Daz and the owners of poser ...there is not.
Thats is why I mentioned those other applications
Thier users are only simply taking advantage of industry standard formats to access Daz content
Some are easing the way with specially built plugins for auto IK rig setup and texture conversion to Native render nodes such as Arnold .
But still if there is to be any movement of DAZ content between apps the people using the incoming content via FBX,Alembic,MDD are responsible without any special realtionship between thier software makers and DAZ
I'm saying they should network with a group of vendors on making sure know the new features, and from that address any needs they have in making> poser content. Then those vendors and SM can disseminate that information into the community as standards for developing content. Note I'm not talking about a partnership for a 3rd party to make content, but a direct relationship between the two so that vendors get the most out of Poser and Poser includes the features that vendors need to compete.
"standards for developing content. " I had to repeat this part a second time because History has shown without some agreed upon standards you continue to fracture the content market in to various camps who's loyalty is based on personal popularity rather than a uniform standard that non partisan Vendors can get behind.
Antonias Faction had the right mindset of not tying their fortune to DAZ but they created a figure that had a very exotic rigging scheme that only those who were part of the Antonia "Faction" were willing to develop for.
A standard for MODERN non Daz poser content tacitly "enforced" By an official Endorsement or "certification" From the parent company would go a long way toward unifying future poser content around a Standard the utilizes the latest features.
Look at Reallusion. Now that they have thier own internal higher quality Figure creation suite They will actually financially subsidize new content creators as an incentive to get more vendors on board (Check their site for details)
No can I or anyone just run over to Reallusion with my own Clever ,Exotic figure and content schemes and regurgitate a stream of Nerdy Mcnerd technobabble as to why My content is "better" than the standard IClone content..and expect to become a Vendor???
Not happening..
I am not suggesting that SM $$ pay $$ people or become a 3D figure content company themselves but their "Absentee Landlord " Status is not helping matters.
There has been nothing productive in this thread for the last three pages or more. Just bashing back and forth. Where has all the Poser content gone? Away from this squabbling to sites where people get along and threads are productive and not reactive. You want DAZ content in Poser. Use FBX. It is supported by both softwares.
I don't see why you would consider this a none productive thread, obviously not every single comment might be. But the OP question is where have all the Poser content gone? And honestly a lot of the answer, at least in my opinion is related to the Genesis characters, Daz as such is of no importance in this discussion, it simply happens to be the software that the character where designed to be used with.
If you disregard Daz as the "competing" software to Poser, it doesn't really change anything as I see it. Because if Genesis had been developed for Poser a similar thread like this would most likely be found on the Daz forum. The Genesis characters are popular, because they are good models and a lot of people both vendors and users like to work with them. At least in my opinion its less related to software vs software, but more character vs character, which I think is reasonable to blame a lot of on SM, for not taking or understanding the importance of, when they release new Poser version. Im almost 100% sure, that had Poser 11 been released with Genesis quality characters, this thread would never have existed in the first place.
There have been several productive posts and a few that weren't that's why I wanted to get it back on track and I'd rather not lock it. I know it can be frustrating if you strictly use Poser and see a lot of Studio items but if you really look you'll find Poser too. Even if you have to go off site to find them, they're out there but Renderosity is always my go-to for Poser stuff.
I wasn't going to switch to studio, I planned to stay loyal to Poser and I'll admit it began to frustrate the heck out of me when it seemed like everything I liked was for Genesis or Studio. Then I delved into Studio and found I didn't have to switch, I could use whichever program fit whatever I was doing and whichever item I needed to use. Now if I see something I want I don't have to worry if its just for Studio or only for V4. Best of both worlds, imo.
...... Kendra
Kendra posted at 4:24PM Fri, 01 December 2017 - #4319095
There have been several productive posts and a few that weren't that's why I wanted to get it back on track and I'd rather not lock it. I know it can be frustrating if you strictly use Poser and see a lot of Studio items but if you really look you'll find Poser too. Even if you have to go off site to find them, they're out there but Renderosity is always my go-to for Poser stuff.
I wasn't going to switch to studio, I planned to stay loyal to Poser and I'll admit it began to frustrate the heck out of me when it seemed like everything I liked was for Genesis or Studio. Then I delved into Studio and found I didn't have to switch, I could use whichever program fit whatever I was doing and whichever item I needed to use. Now if I see something I want I don't have to worry if its just for Studio or only for V4. Best of both worlds, imo.
I get what you mean, Kendra. It's like when I used to come here every day to talk about thing you can or can't do in Poser. Never went to the Studio Forum because I didn't use Studio, so I let them do their thing I and I tried to do mine. But a lot of Studio users kept coming over to this forum and disrupting threads, and getting some, heck a lot of threads locked. So a lot of those users who used to come here went to other forums like Hivewire and RDNA, and I followed them. Oh I keep coming back every now and again, but really I went to the other forums and did a lot of my shopping at those other stores. I do a lot more of my learning on other forums like the SM forum, where, oddly enough, if you look around, a lot of the posters who want to be SOOOO productive and help Poser deal, aren't anywhere to be found.
But getting back to the topic, do you know why I created my Poser directory? To help people find Poser products in the online stores. It's still there, and a lot of it too. When I was searching for that product, one of the things I happened to notice, particularly here, but at a couple of other stores like CGBytes or Renderotica, was how those stores listed the products. Some stores would just throw everything into a category together, the figure didn't matter. Kind of like going to a store where you're shopping for a specific size of clothing, say, big men's sizes and all you can find are small and medium. Renderosity, I'm happy to say, isn't quite that bad. They're more like the store that puts all the Poser stuff at the back of the shelf behind the Genesis stuff or on the lower shelves, so you have to really search for what you're looking for. And it took me a little while to catch on to this trick, but I'd be looking for something for Poser in a marketplace search and on the page that comes up are ads for a similar product for another Genesis figure. Like I said, it took me a while to catch on to that one. i finally had to just put a caveat in my threads, that while i did try to find Poser only listings, because of the way they're listed in the stores, You may still have to wade through a lot of Genesis stuff to get to the Poser stuff.
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3-DArena posted at 9:29PM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318296
I touched on that in my comment as well. Instead of SM talking with the vendors to get them up to speed on new features and get their input on the workflow, the vendors are pretty much getting the release the same time as regular customers, with little docs on how to properly set it up. So the vendors are struggling to use new features around making products for a living and ultimately getting blamed for something that was never properly explained to them. And I don't see how a lot of new features can be used if vendors are in the dark on how to use them, especially when they won't even be able to start on projects using those features until well after the product is officially released.