I keep running into people who want to improve Poser's Cloth Room. But all they ask for is improvements. That's all fine and dandy, but what would you consider an improvement? In other words, what would you improve in the Cloth Room and how?

It's... ancient.

Hey, it's great, it really is. And, it can do some cool stuff. But, even so, running a hefy simulation tied to keyframes, generating fifty-eleven new frames in your workspace to the point of "where the heck am I" isn't fun. But, it's designed for "animation" and multiple frame rendering. Who knew one could use it to get a good deform for a dynamic cloth item that one is only going to use for a single-frame render? Crazy, right?

1. Give a toggle so that frames are created virtually and not stuffed into the document after the simulation is run, if that's what the user wants.

2. "I am a materials engineer and textile physicist. Of course I know what the physical qualities of rubber, cotton sateen, percale, flannel and twill are. Who doesn't?"

Here is where I present the idea that someone plugged this into Poser and didn't expect anyone would ever ask them how to really use it... Ages ago, there was a series of Cloth Presents that were lovingly donated to the freebie community. (Nerd3D, maybe? D3D?) That was the very first thing I downloaded for the Cloth Room as a Freebie, years and years and years ago. I still use it. And... it's basically the only friggin set of Cloth Room Presets out there, even though Poser has a native feature to be able to IMPORT Cloth Presets. WTH?

"Yo dog, Imma make a way to Improt teh Cloth Perset thingie so peeps can have some cloth preset settings for their cloth presets!" = Where are they? Why hasn't an enterprising person pushed some Cloth Room Presets into the marketplace with fifty-eleven physically accurate, as far as the simulator is capable, cloth presets for the Cloth Room?

Natively included Cloth Presets that are "Physically Accurate" for the simulation's capabilities would be... Would allow people to feel good about running their very own cloth simulations using the Cloth room.

1. One-click, don't care what Poser thinks it can't do, conversion of grouped objects to dynamic objects with a step-by-step, fill-in-the-blank, process to call out dynamic, decoration, etc groups by object group and/or material designation without having to interface with a grouping editor that was made for ants and is twice as archaic. Sure, it's versatile, if you already have everything already set up in your clothing item specifically constructed for that one, specific, simulation. Want more than one face in a group, though? HAHAHA U CAN "PAINT" TEHM IN!... I've been modeling objects for forever and using the "Grouping" tool to make real "Groups" in Poser feels like I'm forced to use my elbows to play badminton. I don't even play badminton. I even had to look up how to spell it correctly. (Who'da thunk it? "Badminton" and not "Badmitten?" Wow. :) )

Its not unusual for it to take me longer to deal with the Cloth Room to get a good deform for a still than it does for me to do it manually using the Morph Tool and a couple of magnets, if I need 'em. For a simple gravity driven cloth deform... It should not be that way, but it is.

1. better self-collision. If a garment folds over itself, there's a good chance for poke through.
2. A more streamlined set up. I don't think a one-click setup is doable or a good idea. Too many poser users like to find non-expected ways to use poser's features. The less control we have, the harder it is to do that. It also would likely add more work for vendors, having to set up the garments in certain ways.
3. A set of presets for types of fabrics and a way to save more without a python script. I know some have argued that the settings would need to be changed based on the mesh. If we're fixing the cloth room, that should be able to be fixed too. Even if it can't be, they would at least be a starting point.
4. Faster simulations without losing quality. Other software can do it, so it's not impossible.
5. Control handles like poser has with the bullet physics so I can have more freedom to dictate where certain parts of a cloth end up. There is the choreograph grouping but that is very limited because it is attached to the cloth itself.
6. Better handling of intersections so they don't cause the simulation to bog down or explode the cloth. Again, I've seen better handling in other software.
7. Have the list of objects to collide with open collapsed to the figure level so if I have a number of figures in my scene, I don't have to collapse them all to find the one I want.
8. When importing one scene into another, import the draping too.
9. Better original shape memory so if a figure moves in a way that stretches a cloth and then moves another way that doesn't, the cloth isn't all stretched out on that second movement.

That's all I can think of for now. I reserve the right to add more later if I think of them.

Morkonan posted at 9:05AM Thu, 18 July 2019 - #4357277

It's... ancient.

Hey, it's great, it really is. And, it can do some cool stuff. But, even so, running a hefy simulation tied to keyframes, generating fifty-eleven new frames in your workspace to the point of "where the heck am I" isn't fun. But, it's designed for "animation" and multiple frame rendering. Who knew one could use it to get a good deform for a dynamic cloth item that one is only going to use for a single-frame render? Crazy, right?

1. Give a toggle so that frames are created virtually and not stuffed into the document after the simulation is run, if that's what the user wants.

2. "I am a materials engineer and textile physicist. Of course I know what the physical qualities of rubber, cotton sateen, percale, flannel and twill are. Who doesn't?"

Here is where I present the idea that someone plugged this into Poser and didn't expect anyone would ever ask them how to really use it... Ages ago, there was a series of Cloth Presents that were lovingly donated to the freebie community. (Nerd3D, maybe? D3D?) That was the very first thing I downloaded for the Cloth Room as a Freebie, years and years and years ago. I still use it. And... it's basically the only friggin set of Cloth Room Presets out there, even though Poser has a native feature to be able to IMPORT Cloth Presets. WTH?

"Yo dog, Imma make a way to Improt teh Cloth Perset thingie so peeps can have some cloth preset settings for their cloth presets!" = Where are they? Why hasn't an enterprising person pushed some Cloth Room Presets into the marketplace with fifty-eleven physically accurate, as far as the simulator is capable, cloth presets for the Cloth Room?

Natively included Cloth Presets that are "Physically Accurate" for the simulation's capabilities would be... Would allow people to feel good about running their very own cloth simulations using the Cloth room.

1. One-click, don't care what Poser thinks it can't do, conversion of grouped objects to dynamic objects with a step-by-step, fill-in-the-blank, process to call out dynamic, decoration, etc groups by object group and/or material designation without having to interface with a grouping editor that was made for ants and is twice as archaic. Sure, it's versatile, if you already have everything already set up in your clothing item specifically constructed for that one, specific, simulation. Want more than one face in a group, though? HAHAHA U CAN "PAINT" TEHM IN!... I've been modeling objects for forever and using the "Grouping" tool to make real "Groups" in Poser feels like I'm forced to use my elbows to play badminton. I don't even play badminton. I even had to look up how to spell it correctly. (Who'da thunk it? "Badminton" and not "Badmitten?" Wow. :) )

Its not unusual for it to take me longer to deal with the Cloth Room to get a good deform for a still than it does for me to do it manually using the Morph Tool and a couple of magnets, if I need 'em. For a simple gravity driven cloth deform... It should not be that way, but it is.

All of this.

On the grouping tool specifically inside the Cloth Room... 1: those dots for vertices instead of polygons marked are confusing, we need to visualize this better. 2: it functions in a dumb way: I set up one of the restricted groups, and then when I want to set up another, I select some vertices and grow the selection, intending then to remove the other group I'd made before from this one... Only to realize that it changed the other group when I added some of its vertices to the new group. That's dumb. It forces you to either group it beforehand in another program, or to group it VERTEX BY VERTEX which is... not doable. At all.

RedPhantom posted at 7:34PM Thu, 18 July 2019 - #4357314

1. Control handles like poser has with the bullet physics so I can have more freedom to dictate where certain parts of a cloth end up. There is the choreograph grouping but that is very limited because it is attached to the cloth itself.

Use a weightmaped deformer to do that.

• Create a deformer (magnet) parented to whatever you want.
• Select the magnets property tab and add your clothpiece to deformed objects.
• Select deformers zone. Make it "weightmaped".
• In the weightmap editor deselect anything ("Set All" -> "Set all to 0").
• Use the "Add" brush and paint the choreographed vertices (until they appear green).
• Move the deformer (magnet) and Scale the zone until the marked vertices move.
• In the cloth-room add the same vertices to choreoraped groups (same as in the deformer zone; but will also work without such a group).
• Move the deformer (magnet) to the desired position in your animation.
• Run the simulation.
• After the simulation is ready, you have to move the magnet to zero position.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 8:03PM Thu, 18 July 2019 - #4357316

On the grouping tool specifically inside the Cloth Room... 1: those dots for vertices instead of polygons marked are confusing, we need to visualize this better. 2: it functions in a dumb way: I set up one of the restricted groups, and then when I want to set up another, I select some vertices and grow the selection, intending then to remove the other group I'd made before from this one... Only to realize that it changed the other group when I added some of its vertices to the new group. That's dumb. It forces you to either group it beforehand in another program, or to group it VERTEX BY VERTEX which is... not doable. At all.

12 month ago I posted a method to mark vertexgroups based on an UV-map. https://forum.smithmicro.com/post/46039 (scroll down to https://forum.smithmicro.com/post/46123 to find a working script)

This method could be extended to use more groups (color-codes), userinterface, etc.

adp001 posted at 2:37PM Thu, 18 July 2019 - #4357334

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 8:03PM Thu, 18 July 2019 - #4357316

On the grouping tool specifically inside the Cloth Room... 1: those dots for vertices instead of polygons marked are confusing, we need to visualize this better. 2: it functions in a dumb way: I set up one of the restricted groups, and then when I want to set up another, I select some vertices and grow the selection, intending then to remove the other group I'd made before from this one... Only to realize that it changed the other group when I added some of its vertices to the new group. That's dumb. It forces you to either group it beforehand in another program, or to group it VERTEX BY VERTEX which is... not doable. At all.

12 month ago I posted a method to mark vertexgroups based on an UV-map. https://forum.smithmicro.com/post/46039 (scroll down to https://forum.smithmicro.com/post/46123 to find a working script)

This method could be extended to use more groups (color-codes), userinterface, etc.

Thank you! I'll test this when I can!

Still, this is about wanted improvements to the Cloth Room itself - such functionality should be native to the program, I think :)

Oh, another thing I'd like!

Allowing us to clothify a figure and not only a body part of it. Let us make those conforming clothes become dynamic after posing, without having to change their rigging, please.

@Afrodite Have you ever tried to morph figures or clothes using the rigging?

I do both : Morph the figure using the rig (biceps, triceps all muscles that are "inline" and move in or out only are game), and morph clothing movements using the clothing rigging.

tonyvilters posted at 3:53PM Thu, 18 July 2019 - #4357354

@Afrodite Have you ever tried to morph figures or clothes using the rigging?

I do both : Morph the figure using the rig (biceps, triceps all muscles that are "inline" and move in or out only are game), and morph clothing movements using the clothing rigging.

I'm not sure what you mean??

I got the idea from one of Posers greatest men around. Remember PhilC? He was a great guy.

He had a demo video where he used a combination of conforming 'rigged) and dynamic clothing, so he could rig the conforming part, let the dynamic simulation do the draping and then use ghost bones to get further movement in the draped cloth.

He also had a video about how to get plies in a dynamic draped clothing, but that was by using a morph after the simm. Sorry, but I don't remember the details exactly; and PhilC moved on towards other hobbies. Woodturning if I am not mistaken.

At the time I had other priorities, so I did not look in detail at the exact workflow, but it was a very interesting project.

Best regards, Tony

Oooh PhilC. Sure miss having him around.

That sounds too complicated for me to understand without seeing at least examples. But it's to be expected - he was one of the great techs for Poser. I just do kinda pretty things.

Ach, my weak spot. rendering.

I am a tech guy too and rendering is probably my weakest spot. Nah, pretty sure it is my weakest spot.

Obj files and rigging quality and "inventing" workflows are on my list.

The fitting room was my idea, my baby, as are dynamic hair lashes, that kind of stuff.

I'm very much not a tech person. I'm moved by feeling. I'll bend stuff until it looks good.

(bless you for the fitting room then)

Cloth room and fitting room could be combined but for that to succeed properly Poser needs to go to single vertex group figures and single vertex group clothing..

Current Fitting room situation is like this. => The clothing puts you on. => The clothing has controlled shrinking to figure, and gets your rigging. => Result, the clothing puts you on.

Later I also filed another enhancement report about => You put on your clothing. => Hard to explain in a few words, but a reverse or a live Fitting room. => But that did not make it.

I filed a demo of a fully rigged single vertex group clothing. I also filed a demo of a fully rigged single vertex group figure because I truly believe that's the future.

I'm not sure I understood anything of that other than the general feeling of it, but "the clothing puts you on" is making me snort.

Ha,ha,ha, actually that is the Fitting room LOL..

The clothing shrinks to your skin, and then takes over your bones. LOL Scary; LOL.

Well... I've seen worse. I make dolls - you'll often hear me say something like "be right there, let me just saw this head open!"

It is a Global brute force system leased from a long defunct company (Size8 software) it cannot be improved only replaced.

Dump it completely and replace it with a true hybrid system base on weight maps as it is done in Iclone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXaiO3wm5NM

There are certainly improvements to be had in the cloth room. I know it's a ton of work, but I'm thinking that a full redo is required. Something much quicker. User friendly. What would be very cool is if the collision part of it could be leveraged to aid in conventional rigging and morph following of clothing items. That is something that could really help alleviate the content crisis that seems to choke out every cool new figure

Well damn.
Now I agree with vilters. Didn't see that coming.

Jk :) <3 tonyvilters posted at 11:05PM Thu, 18 July 2019 - #4357380

Cloth room and fitting room could be combined but for that to succeed properly Poser needs to go to single vertex group figures and single vertex group clothing..

Current Fitting room situation is like this. => The clothing puts you on. => The clothing has controlled shrinking to figure, and gets your rigging. => Result, the clothing puts you on.

Later I also filed another enhancement report about => You put on your clothing. => Hard to explain in a few words, but a reverse or a live Fitting room. => But that did not make it.

I filed a demo of a fully rigged single vertex group clothing. I also filed a demo of a fully rigged single vertex group figure because I truly believe that's the future.

Virtual World Dynamics Cloth and Hair is an extremely good Cloth (and hair) simulator.

If that was integrated in Poser by default that would be absolutely perfect!

Biscuits posted at 7:08PM Sat, 20 July 2019 - #4357454

Virtual World Dynamics Cloth and Hair is an extremely good Cloth (and hair) simulator.

If that was integrated in Poser by default that would be absolutely perfect!

Not having the product above, I'd still agree. From what I remember of its development, including it (or something much like it) would also not entail having to do anything significant with existing products. IOW - From what I know, nothing special has to be recreated that orphans any existing products in the marketplace.

(I see it's now being sold through the standard Renderosity marketplace. There's no requirement to have to contact/pay a third-party for this product, now? Initially, it was Paypal or CC direct, IIRC, which is why, though enthused by its initial showing, I opted out of buying it.)

Biscuits posted at 4:48AM Mon, 22 July 2019 - #4357454

Virtual World Dynamics Cloth and Hair is an extremely good Cloth (and hair) simulator.

If that was integrated in Poser by default that would be absolutely perfect!

The problem with this idea is that the "typical" end user, i.e., Poser's user base, considers this too complicated to use.

They don't use the current cloth room for the same reason.

Replacing what they don't use now, with an even more complicated version, serves no real purpose.

Glitterati3D posted at 4:57AM Mon, 22 July 2019 - #4357691

Biscuits posted at 4:48AM Mon, 22 July 2019 - #4357454

Virtual World Dynamics Cloth and Hair is an extremely good Cloth (and hair) simulator.

If that was integrated in Poser by default that would be absolutely perfect!

The problem with this idea is that the "typical" end user, i.e., Poser's user base, considers this too complicated to use.

They don't use the current cloth room for the same reason.

Replacing what they don't use now, with an even more complicated version, serves no real purpose.

I consider myself a typical Poser user. I still don't understand a thing about the material room, the fitting room is too complicated for me, I can't and don't model anything on my own, and besides the posing of figures/lights/props I'd like to have things as simple and as close to "click this for the result" as possible. My only saving grace is probably my art/photography/martial arts backgrounds that prevent my renders from looking like a third graders macaroni project that got run over by a bus. Having said that, I managed to learn the cloth room ages ago and every figure in every render I've done since P8 has probably all been clothed by dynamics. I'm a pure visual artist, not a technical one but if someone like me can learn the cloth room, anyone can. There just needs to be open and easily accessible tutorials that aren't buried 50 pages into a thread or hidden in layers of search results.

I've watched videos on that VWD and it does look complicated, but the results look awesome and worth the ROI. If it wasn't so expensive I would definitely have it by now. Plus, being able to rotate the sim while it's going is something that Poser lacks that would be sooooooooooo nice to have. Maybe if it were incorporated into Poser, they could streamline it and make it simple enough that people like me can figure it out.

JohnDoe641 posted at 7:08AM Mon, 22 July 2019 - #4357693

Glitterati3D posted at 4:57AM Mon, 22 July 2019 - #4357691

Biscuits posted at 4:48AM Mon, 22 July 2019 - #4357454

Virtual World Dynamics Cloth and Hair is an extremely good Cloth (and hair) simulator.

If that was integrated in Poser by default that would be absolutely perfect!

The problem with this idea is that the "typical" end user, i.e., Poser's user base, considers this too complicated to use.

They don't use the current cloth room for the same reason.

Replacing what they don't use now, with an even more complicated version, serves no real purpose.

I consider myself a typical Poser user. I still don't understand a thing about the material room, the fitting room is too complicated for me, I can't and don't model anything on my own, and besides the posing of figures/lights/props I'd like to have things as simple and as close to "click this for the result" as possible. My only saving grace is probably my art/photography/martial arts backgrounds that prevent my renders from looking like a third graders macaroni project that got run over by a bus. Having said that, I managed to learn the cloth room ages ago and every figure in every render I've done since P8 has probably all been clothed by dynamics. I'm a pure visual artist, not a technical one but if someone like me can learn the cloth room, anyone can. There just needs to be open and easily accessible tutorials that aren't buried 50 pages into a thread or hidden in layers of search results.

I've watched videos on that VWD and it does look complicated, but the results look awesome and worth the ROI. If it wasn't so expensive I would definitely have it by now. Plus, being able to rotate the sim while it's going is something that Poser lacks that would be sooooooooooo nice to have. Maybe if it were incorporated into Poser, they could streamline it and make it simple enough that people like me can figure it out.

Well, I didn't say either system was too complicated - just that the end users consider it so, a a majority.

I've encountered many, too many, users who have never even tried the cloth room because it was "too hard" to use.

Sadly, it doesn't take first hand knowledge for many users to come to a conclusion - just some forum posts that say it is so.

My very first complaint with the cloth room applies to other parts of Poser, unfortunately. While I understand why it works as it does, with regard to "draping" especially, it keeps Poser from working the way I'd always wished it did. Having done stop motion for a few years, I've always wanted 3D animation to feel more similar to working with actual models. Essentially, I want action figures that do not break, and do not fall over between frames. I want to create my figure library and then begin blocking scenes and collecting sequences (could be frames or animations) so that I can focus on some kind of story telling. Fitting clothing feels too much like modeling or creating characters. I've never liked that I can't save a figure to the library wearing dynamic clothes, have the thumbnail showing the figure wearing the fitted clothing and then bring the figure back in ready to render. At least with conforming clothing there is no time consuming process of "preparing the figure" - figures can be saved in natural stances (any arbitrary position) rather than T-pose, and can be loaded from the library in the same state is when they were saved. It's not so much the time required to get the sim running and drape the clothing (assuming you already have the proper cloth attributes set) it's that it simply disrupts the workflow and forces me to be in a different mindset than I was when I launched the program. I wish Poser were more like the elaborate create-a-player of a high budget video game in which once created a character would never need any further tweaking. I want the realism of dynamic cloth and hair but also the simplicity of conforming clothes and helmet hair.

It may take a bit more prep time, but you can save your characters with the dynamic clothes smart propped to them in poses. When you create and pose your character, run the simulation right away then under the object file, spawn morph target. Put the dynamics to 0 and the morph to 1. When you save and reload the figure, it will load in that pose. You could even run simulations for several poses and save them to the cloth that way if you desire.

For years now, I hardly use conforming cloths in Poser anymore (just the occasional accessories, gloves, boots, underwear .. small things like these). Everything else, I let the Cloth Room do. I always thought the the Cloth Room gives a much more realistic look and feel of the cloths, even on stills. For my workflow, I do not have many things to wish for, right now, just to make it faster and get a bit better collision detection. A nice little ad-don would be, that you maybe can stop the simulation in between, do a little corrections/push/pull (maybe with the tools of the Morphing Tool palette) of the clothing piece and continue the sim. from this point on again.

Glitterati3D posted at 11:34AM Sat, 27 July 2019 - #4357691

Biscuits posted at 4:48AM Mon, 22 July 2019 - #4357454

Replacing what they don't use now, with an even more complicated version, serves no real purpose.

The Poser Community is an inventive creative group.

I am amazed what people can achieve with Poser, and I feel really sad that some continue to insist on a stupid and lazy reputation.

The majority of the Poser Community is intelligent and inspiring.

The latest version of VWD shows that the developers brought it to a higher level with amazing features and speed in simulation.

It would be good to see these improvements to the cloth room:

1. no need to setup animation with a bunch of frames, just have in place simulation at the press of a button
2. after the simulation finishes, add the ability to add inside and outside thickness to the cloth. Basically grow the mesh on one side or the other -- or both.

One of the things that kinda makes the results of the cloth room need more work is that the cloth is infinitely thin so at some angles, it doesn't look that great.

adroge posted at 1:45PM Mon, 29 July 2019 - #4358270

1. after the simulation finishes, add the ability to add inside and outside thickness to the cloth. Basically grow the mesh on one side or the other -- or both.

One of the things that kinda makes the results of the cloth room need more work is that the cloth is infinitely thin so at some angles, it doesn't look that great.

Oh if this were possible it would be like a dream.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:23AM Tue, 30 July 2019 - #4358293

adroge posted at 1:45PM Mon, 29 July 2019 - #4358270 Oh if this were possible it would be like a dream.

On single sheet garments this would be eminently doable if the garment has a vertex group identifying the open edges that need finishing. However this means the garment should be specially made for this, so the correct hem can just be built into the model as a soft decoration.

FVerbaas posted at 3:09PM Tue, 30 July 2019 - #4358333

On single sheet garments this would be eminently doable if the garment has a vertex group identifying the open edges that need finishing. However this means the garment should be specially made for this, so the correct hem can just be built into the model as a soft decoration.

Couldn't it be added like a Thickness modifier thing instead?

If the render engine has a 'thickness modifier', you could use that of course. Correct me when I am wrong, but AFIK neither Firefly nor Superfly have such facility. In Firefly you could use a displacement map 50% grey, and overlay a black polyline over the edges to be hemmed. With Superfly you have no such options.

I am working now on a small script called 1-2-HemIt that could do the trick.

I mean, it IS supposed to be a suggestion for things to be added TO Poser, so... The idea is to be a request for them to create such a facility.

Ohki, you are prefectly right. Let's hope it will appear in the new 2020's version of the Cloth Room.

It is just that I need the feature _now _ and need to know the requirements for a garment to work smoothly with it.

FVerbaas posted at 5:48PM Tue, 30 July 2019 - #4358384

Ohki, you are prefectly right. Let's hope it will appear in the new 2020's version of the Cloth Room.

It is just that I need the feature _now _ and need to know the requirements for a garment to work smoothly with it.

I share the eagerness

I've started trying to make a robe for a figure, this is the result of a quick test that might be of interest.

The robe is single-sided geometry from Marvellous Designer, has its own material zone and is using a Cycles root to render different materials on the front and back facing polygons like this -

The yellow pieces are separate unwelded meshes added to the obj file from MD in Modo Indie. I made pipes using the Tube tool and gave the geometry its own separate material zone. The edge loops for the pipes were snapped to the vertices of the cloth mesh - as the vertices of the decorated group will follow the vertices of the underlying cloth, I think getting vertex position and density to match closely is important.

I also gave the piping a separate polygon group in Modo to make it easy to add as a soft decorated group in Poser. It's not perfect but does seem to work reasonably well so far to create the illusion of thick cloth.

1. Definitely running simulations outside of animations...I mean, look at D-Force. You don't have to take your current pose and apply it to the end (or slightly before the end) of the animation and then call up a zero'd pose for the beginning of the animation.
2. I'm all for material properties that give basic clues as to how the object that has the material applied will behave...and not just in the cloth room, but for rendering as well.
3. A thorough default collision detection in the cloth room that prevents underlying figures from intersecting themselves. (a primary reason why you never see figures wearing dynamic cloth that are posed with their arms down tight to their sides)

caisson posted at 8:18AM Thu, 01 August 2019 - #4358465

I've started trying to make a robe for a figure, this is the result of a quick test that might be of interest.

The robe is single-sided geometry from Marvellous Designer, has its own material zone and is using a Cycles root to render different materials on the front and back facing polygons like this -

....

I also gave the piping a separate polygon group in Modo to make it easy to add as a soft decorated group in Poser. It's not perfect but does seem to work reasonably well so far to create the illusion of thick cloth.

For the sake of good order:

1- MD can produce such pipings natively and welded to the garment main structure mesh. No need to go to other app for this.

2- confirmed this technique of soft decorated piping works reasonably wellas long as the diameter of the pipe is small relative t length of the edges in the main mesh and edges are well separated at every point. The cloth vertex the ring in the piping is supposed to follow must be the only one around. Higher density mesh in the clothing (= more vertices around) will just give more 'noise' for the vertices in the piping.

Suggestion for improvement of the cloth room: for every 'decoration' create a vertex group with the vertices it must follow. This allows the user to be specific about the controlling information.

smallspace posted at 5:25AM Thu, 01 August 2019 - #4358477

1. Definitely running simulations outside of animations...I mean, look at D-Force. You don't have to take your current pose and apply it to the end (or slightly before the end) of the animation and then call up a zero'd pose for the beginning of the animation.
2. I'm all for material properties that give basic clues as to how the object that has the material applied will behave...and not just in the cloth room, but for rendering as well.
3. A thorough default collision detection in the cloth room that prevents underlying figures from intersecting themselves. (a primary reason why you never see figures wearing dynamic cloth that are posed with their arms down tight to their sides)

It should be noted that D-Force is a physics engine while the Cloth simulator is not. Poser does have a physics engine as well, Bullet Physics, which is still being developed by it's creator. I will also note that Bullet Physics does need some more refinement for use in Poser. Set up time can be quite weildy if you don't know exactly what you're doing, but with practice, you should be able to accomplish everything you just enumerated.

FVerbaas posted at 9:13AM Sat, 03 August 2019 - #4358478

1- MD can produce such pipings natively and welded to the garment main structure mesh. No need to go to other app for this.

2- confirmed this technique of soft decorated piping works reasonably wellas long as the diameter of the pipe is small relative t length of the edges in the main mesh and edges are well separated at every point. The cloth vertex the ring in the piping is supposed to follow must be the only one around. Higher density mesh in the clothing (= more vertices around) will just give more 'noise' for the vertices in the piping.

Just to note that any mesh used in the decorated groups should be unwelded i.e. a separate piece of geometry from the cloth mesh. As each vertex in the decoration mesh will follow the nearest cloth vertex, the creator has to pay attention to the relative position and density of points in both meshes.