EClark1894 posted at 5:09PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371197

We need to seriously get away from Genesis. And lest anyone think it's just Genesis, it's not. We need to kill off V4 as well, and move on. We have La Femme, Project E, and Dawn. Those are the main figures we need to concentrate on. Otherwise, we're just splitting the market.

Dawn, Lefemme,project E ,..and now a resurrected mikki are competing for their "split" of the poser content market.

Some consumer markets can actually suffer from too many non unified standards.

There is a reason we only have Apple & Android for smart phones.

Bondware needs to choose an enforceable standard for poser native figures and kill off the rest just as blackberry and all the rest were effectively killed .

wolf359 posted at 6:33PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371338

EClark1894 posted at 5:09PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371197

We need to seriously get away from Genesis. And lest anyone think it's just Genesis, it's not. We need to kill off V4 as well, and move on. We have La Femme, Project E, and Dawn. Those are the main figures we need to concentrate on. Otherwise, we're just splitting the market.

Dawn, Lefemme,project E ,..and now a resurrected mikki are competing for their "split" of the poser content market.

Some consumer markets can actually suffer from too many non unified standards.

There is a reason we only have Apple & Android for smart phones.

Bondware needs to choose an enforceable standard for poser native figures and kill off the rest just as blackberry and all the rest were effectively killed .

ROFL, because YOU say so? Some of us like variety.

We might take you seriously when you become a marketing billionaire, k?

Glitterati3D posted at 10:32PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371342

wolf359 posted at 6:33PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371338

EClark1894 posted at 5:09PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371197

We need to seriously get away from Genesis. And lest anyone think it's just Genesis, it's not. We need to kill off V4 as well, and move on. We have La Femme, Project E, and Dawn. Those are the main figures we need to concentrate on. Otherwise, we're just splitting the market.

Dawn, Lefemme,project E ,..and now a resurrected mikki are competing for their "split" of the poser content market.

Some consumer markets can actually suffer from too many non unified standards.

There is a reason we only have Apple & Android for smart phones.

Bondware needs to choose an enforceable standard for poser native figures and kill off the rest just as blackberry and all the rest were effectively killed .

ROFL, because YOU say so? Some of us like variety.

We might take you seriously when you become a marketing billionaire, k?

The problem is, the market isn't split JUST between Dawn, La Femme and Project E. is it? There's Genesis, 1-8, Vickie 1-4, Aiko, Star, She Freak, Pauline, Miki, Roxie, Sydney, Alyson and probably others we don't even know about, including the Make Human models. Most of us are hobbyists, and we've been doing this a long time, but some of us are getting older and surviving now on limited incomes. A market can only expand so far and so fast.

Some of us have deeper pockets than others, or we're blessed with modeling skills, so we can make what we need. But even that takes away capital from the market.

So, um, wouldn't an app like Poser would benefit from its fitting room updated so it's conversions are almost seamless from a figure to another? Seems to me that would help the end users a lot.

Rhia474 posted at 10:51PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371363

So, um, wouldn't an app like Poser would benefit from its fitting room updated so it's conversions are almost seamless from a figure to another? Seems to me that would help the end users a lot.

I'll be honest, as a clothing creator, I don't see how that is possible. There's just too much difference between figures - starting with old models with very different topology, to rigging differences (spherical rigging vs. weight mapping) to simple size differences. I've done a number of figure fits in the modeler, and there's just major differences between figures, starting with one figure standing in a zero location well in front of or behind the originating figure, plus size differences. It's much easier to convert in the modeler and re-rig (and that's not "easy") than trying to do it in the fitting room or with a conversion utility. I don't see a way to automate that.

Rhia474 posted at 10:55PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371363

So, um, wouldn't an app like Poser would benefit from its fitting room updated so it's conversions are almost seamless from a figure to another? Seems to me that would help the end users a lot.

Yes, and no. It would help the end user immensely with giving them clothes to dress their figures with, but at the cost of those users not buying product from vendors. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but there's a trade off. The trick is to find the right balance. And before you ask, what's the balance? There's a lapse between when a figure first comes out, and new product follows. Vendors need to figure out during that lapse what figure to support. In that case, the Fitting room could be a great help.

That makes sense from both of you above. There needs to be a balance somewhere though because clothing conversions work already reasonably well if the content is Poser Native already. As a pure buyer, my income I can spend on hobby virtual clothes is limited and I would prefer to have quality ones i can convert within Poser to different figures. I still would like to support vendors, but I can't afford a full wardrobe for each figure I possess. And versatility of figures is a good thing. Now to have the same for males...

Glitterati3D posted at 12:45AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371364

Rhia474 posted at 10:51PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371363

So, um, wouldn't an app like Poser would benefit from its fitting room updated so it's conversions are almost seamless from a figure to another? Seems to me that would help the end users a lot.

I'll be honest, as a clothing creator, I don't see how that is possible. There's just too much difference between figures - starting with old models with very different topology, to rigging differences (spherical rigging vs. weight mapping) to simple size differences. I've done a number of figure fits in the modeler, and there's just major differences between figures, starting with one figure standing in a zero location well in front of or behind the originating figure, plus size differences. It's much easier to convert in the modeler and re-rig (and that's not "easy") than trying to do it in the fitting room or with a conversion utility. I don't see a way to automate that.

Kyle 1.5 wearing clothes originally made for M4. As far as I can tell, the converters focus more on the geometries than the cr2s, then rebuild the clothing to suit the destination character. But, of course, this requires buying the original clothing in the first place, so it's not the original vendor is being cut out of the loop. If anything, it's providing more opportunities for the vendor to make a sale.

As things stand, I have a wardrobe for my Kyle characters that's about 30 gigs in size, and draws on characters from M2 and P4 to Genesis.... and again, in all cases, I had to buy the originals in order to create the conversions. So what am I missing in all this, folks?

EClark1894 posted at 7:54PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371197

We need to seriously get away from Genesis. And lest anyone think it's just Genesis, it's not. We need to kill off V4 as well, and move on. We have La Femme, Project E, and Dawn. Those are the main figures we need to concentrate on. Otherwise, we're just splitting the market.

Yeah, about that......

What happens when the Poser user needs something other than a bland, instantly forgettable early 20's Caucasians?

What happens when the Poser user needs something other than a trashy, hookerware outfit?

I am not spending $100 - $200 dollars a month over at DAZ because I love the Golum. I am spending it because they are making the content that Poser vendors aren't. I wrestle it into Poser, but my choices are either that or I can't execute my Artistic Vision. Such as it is........

(And no, moving to DS isn't an option - I am NOT going back to a single threaded application and a Poser 5 feature set).

One of the symptoms of madness is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result. At some point, it needs to sink in that the customers are no longer using Poser 7. The customer base has changed, but for the most part, vendors haven't.

What is YOUR plan to get quality vendors on board to make content that the customers want to buy?

SeanMartin posted at 7:33AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371370

Glitterati3D posted at 12:45AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371364

Rhia474 posted at 10:51PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371363

So, um, wouldn't an app like Poser would benefit from its fitting room updated so it's conversions are almost seamless from a figure to another? Seems to me that would help the end users a lot.

I'll be honest, as a clothing creator, I don't see how that is possible. There's just too much difference between figures - starting with old models with very different topology, to rigging differences (spherical rigging vs. weight mapping) to simple size differences. I've done a number of figure fits in the modeler, and there's just major differences between figures, starting with one figure standing in a zero location well in front of or behind the originating figure, plus size differences. It's much easier to convert in the modeler and re-rig (and that's not "easy") than trying to do it in the fitting room or with a conversion utility. I don't see a way to automate that.

Kyle 1.5 wearing clothes originally made for M4. As far as I can tell, the converters focus more on the geometries than the cr2s, then rebuild the clothing to suit the destination character. But, of course, this requires buying the original clothing in the first place, so it's not the original vendor is being cut out of the loop. If anything, it's providing more opportunities for the vendor to make a sale.

As things stand, I have a wardrobe for my Kyle characters that's about 30 gigs in size, and draws on characters from M2 and P4 to Genesis.... and again, in all cases, I had to buy the originals in order to create the conversions. So what am I missing in all this, folks?

And, yet, when I use a conversion utility going from M4->Dusk, I'm much more likely to end up with a result like this:

Rhia474 posted at 8:37AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371367

That makes sense from both of you above. There needs to be a balance somewhere though because clothing conversions work already reasonably well if the content is Poser Native already. As a pure buyer, my income I can spend on hobby virtual clothes is limited and I would prefer to have quality ones i can convert within Poser to different figures. I still would like to support vendors, but I can't afford a full wardrobe for each figure I possess. And versatility of figures is a good thing. Now to have the same for males...

I know you do a good share of kitbashing (very well, in fact) but I do want to put this out there for those who are considering how to afford a new figure wardrobe.

Start with basics, pants, skirt, TShirt, etc. You can kitbash and/or re-texture to make those basic pieces almost anything you'd like. Keep your eye on Prime for the additional style specific pieces that you can add to those base pieces for a completely different look without spending a fortune.

As a non-programmer, non-3D expert, I'm curious why clothes not designed for specific figures (or in my experience, sometimes even clothes that are designed for specific figures) have to be adjusted with morphs at all. Is it technically not possible to automate this so that conforming clothing will never intersect the underlying mesh, whether it's the figure or another item of clothing?

starfish34 posted at 10:09AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371392

As a non-programmer, non-3D expert, I'm curious why clothes not designed for specific figures (or in my experience, sometimes even clothes that are designed for specific figures) have to be adjusted with morphs at all. Is it technically not possible to automate this so that conforming clothing will never intersect the underlying mesh, whether it's the figure or another item of clothing?

In 3D, not yet, unless you use dynamic clothing and that's not consistent either. We just aren't there yet.

The bottom line is, though, it you want more universal clothing that will fit more figures, dynamic clothing is the way to achieve that.

It can be hard to find even basics for some figures, especially males.

Sometimes I miss the way DAZ did things. Release the figure, with textures, poses, morphs, and a basic wardrobe, sold separately or with a discount as a bundle.

I think that encouraged people to make add-ons for the clothing (free or for sale), since they were "official" items and tended to have a large base of users. There were tons of textures for the unimesh bodysuit, the morphing fantasy dress, the cowl and gloves, etc.

randym77 posted at 12:59PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371397

It can be hard to find even basics for some figures, especially males.

Sometimes I miss the way DAZ did things. Release the figure, with textures, poses, morphs, and a basic wardrobe, sold separately or with a discount as a bundle.

I think that encouraged people to make add-ons for the clothing (free or for sale), since they were "official" items and tended to have a large base of users. There were tons of textures for the unimesh bodysuit, the morphing fantasy dress, the cowl and gloves, etc.

Well, it did help that with the exception of the early days here at Renderosity, most of the figures being used by Poser users were made by DAZ.

randym77 posted at 11:47AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371397

It can be hard to find even basics for some figures, especially males.

Sometimes I miss the way DAZ did things. Release the figure, with textures, poses, morphs, and a basic wardrobe, sold separately or with a discount as a bundle.

I think that encouraged people to make add-ons for the clothing (free or for sale), since they were "official" items and tended to have a large base of users. There were tons of textures for the unimesh bodysuit, the morphing fantasy dress, the cowl and gloves, etc.

Well, I remember when Tyler was released. He had a very nice bundle. Which no one bought, well except for me, of course. Because they didn't "like" Tyler.

To each his own, but when the vendors are confronted with a lack of sales, they're simply not going to dedicate the time and resources to products that don't sell.

starfish34 posted at 2:03PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371392

As a non-programmer, non-3D expert, I'm curious why clothes not designed for specific figures (or in my experience, sometimes even clothes that are designed for specific figures) have to be adjusted with morphs at all. Is it technically not possible to automate this so that conforming clothing will never intersect the underlying mesh, whether it's the figure or another item of clothing?

Yes, by implementing collision detection - essentially the same thing that dynamic clothing uses. 'Other' software is fully capable of this, just not Poser, currently.

The fitting room can be used to fit clothing to just about any figure you want - I've used it to fit child size clothing to adults, including shoes - with decent results. But it's not a one-click solution. It requires a bit of patience and time to understand how the fitting room works and then develop your own workflow that works best for your needs. Some figures work better in the fitting room than others, depending on how their body parts are grouped. An in-depth tutorial on the fitting room would be a nice resource.

AmbientShade posted at 2:35PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371410

starfish34 posted at 2:03PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371392

As a non-programmer, non-3D expert, I'm curious why clothes not designed for specific figures (or in my experience, sometimes even clothes that are designed for specific figures) have to be adjusted with morphs at all. Is it technically not possible to automate this so that conforming clothing will never intersect the underlying mesh, whether it's the figure or another item of clothing?

Yes, by implementing collision detection - essentially the same thing that dynamic clothing uses. 'Other' software is fully capable of this, just not Poser, currently.

The fitting room can be used to fit clothing to just about any figure you want - I've used it to fit child size clothing to adults, including shoes - with decent results. But it's not a one-click solution. It requires a bit of patience and time to understand how the fitting room works and then develop your own workflow that works best for your needs. Some figures work better in the fitting room than others, depending on how their body parts are grouped. An in-depth tutorial on the fitting room would be a nice resource.

There's a few key words in his request - "automate this so that conforming clothing will never intersect the underlying mesh" - and I just don't think anyone has achieved that yet. Frankly, all the 3D films I've seen have proven that to be the case........

I liked Tyler. I bought some clothing for him, but IIRC, most of the stuff available for him was contemporary, and I don't do a lot of contemporary renders.

The kind of clothing I find most useful are things like the unimesh bodysuit. (Tons of material zones - you can create all kinds of styles without even any texture maps. With texture maps, the sky's the limit.) And the Valiant and Courageous outfits at DAZ. Tunic with long sleeves and a high neck, belt, pants, and boots. With texture maps you can turn them into all kinds of SF and fantasy clothing.

V4's morphing gloves are also very useful. You can use them to make tattoos, scars, jewelry, not just gloves. And gloves are something I find very difficult to fit to different figures.

There will always be a chance for poke-through whenever any mesh is extremely close to another mesh in an animation sequence, whether you're using dynamic or conforming clothing, simply due to calculation errors during the simulation. But transferring a morphed shape from one model to another is pretty straight forward in most other software, from Blender and Maya to DS and CC3.

wolf359 posted at 12:28PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371338

EClark1894 posted at 5:09PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371197

We need to seriously get away from Genesis. And lest anyone think it's just Genesis, it's not. We need to kill off V4 as well, and move on. We have La Femme, Project E, and Dawn. Those are the main figures we need to concentrate on. Otherwise, we're just splitting the market.

Dawn, Lefemme,project E ,..and now a resurrected mikki are competing for their "split" of the poser content market.

Some consumer markets can actually suffer from too many non unified standards.

There is a reason we only have Apple & Android for smart phones.

Bondware needs to choose an enforceable standard for poser native figures and kill off the rest just as blackberry and all the rest were effectively killed .

Only have Apple and Android?

The makers of LG phones : Hold my beer.

I think there is a market for quality nonstandard models. Otherwise it's like saying we're all interested in the same subjects and want to present them in the same way. That might be true when it comes to props. A necklace or a ring or a hat or a car all work well with just about all models. But when it comes to figures. I think diversity coupled with compatibility is the key.

quietrob posted at 4:48PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371428

wolf359 posted at 12:28PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371338

EClark1894 posted at 5:09PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371197

We need to seriously get away from Genesis. And lest anyone think it's just Genesis, it's not. We need to kill off V4 as well, and move on. We have La Femme, Project E, and Dawn. Those are the main figures we need to concentrate on. Otherwise, we're just splitting the market.

Dawn, Lefemme,project E ,..and now a resurrected mikki are competing for their "split" of the poser content market.

Some consumer markets can actually suffer from too many non unified standards.

There is a reason we only have Apple & Android for smart phones.

Bondware needs to choose an enforceable standard for poser native figures and kill off the rest just as blackberry and all the rest were effectively killed .

Only have Apple and Android?

The makers of LG phones : Hold my beer.

I think there is a market for quality nonstandard models. Otherwise it's like saying we're all interested in the same subjects and want to present them in the same way. That might be true when it comes to props. A necklace or a ring or a hat or a car all work well with just about all models. But when it comes to figures. I think diversity coupled with compatibility is the key.

The popular flagship LG phones run the android OS.

I know The blackberry still exists but try to convince an aspiring mobile app developer that the blackberry platform is a good investment.of his time... or ask amazon and microsoft about thier attempts to bring "diversity" to the Smart phone market.

you can have figure "diversity" in the form of new exotic, multiple third party figures... or vestigial figures exhumed from the graveyard of poser history and fobbed off as "new" poser 11 content

However you can not realisticly expect content creators to support them all....and sorry but draping a generic smock over "project E", in the cloth room, is not really vendor support.

Forgive the repetition in stance, but these are all tests I do when I've converted something from one character to another. Some of these are M4, some are H3, some are even V4. But the bottom line remains: they're all pretty successful and they retain the original's morphs that are useful. Sometimes, like the Jon Snow cape, the original was simply brought in and scaled and parented, because the movement morphs were worth retension. And in all cases, the original costume mesh had to be bought in order for me to transfer it to my particular mesh of choice.

The options are out there, folks, if you know how to work them. And if all the original character creator is going to give you is basics and no one else wants to touch it "because it wont sell well", then you do what you need to do.

Yes, I know what I need to do...but I'm lazy. A lot of my renders are the equivalent of memes. Done quickly, and meant as a joke. I'd much rather use conforming items made for the figure than convert stuff or make my own, though I know how. So I find myself falling back on M4 or even M3 or D3, because I have so much stuff for them. (David 3 weightmapped is still my favorite male figure.)

L'Homme est la: Early December

Interesting...

"L'Homme is more than a partner, he's a morph of La Femme that can be injected into the base figure. Because he's a morph of La Femme, that means her clothing, textures and other assets can be easily modified to fit his masculine frame.

L'Homme is currently in testing with a target release date of sometime in early December."

I'm less excited at the idea of an in-app downloader and installer. I hope we'll still be able to use zip files. I tried the DAZ installer and hated it. Much prefer to install from zips.

I'm not quite sure what to make of L'Homme being just a morph set for La Femme. Is this more likely to keep him viable or will he just be an afterthought for La Femme? I would like to see some viable males. So far, we're spoiled for choice when it comes to female content (morphs, clothes, hair, other accessories), while male content is a different story.

I do hope both are here to stay for a while.

I also bought everything for Tyler. Would have bought more if more was made for him.

Since it wasn't, Wardrobe Wizard got a serious workout. You do have to spend some time to learn how to make it (or any of the other conversion systems) work, but the fitting room, with either Lyrra's fitting magnets, or FVerbaas' Prefitter is good enough.

I don't worry about clothing or hair - nowadays, I just need shoes.

As a customer, I give the vendors time to make content for a figure, but I am not waiting forever. Once I start converting content, it is pretty much over - unless the vendor makes a really, really good outfit.

MKDAWUSS posted at 9:21PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371467

I'm not quite sure what to make of L'Homme being just a morph set for La Femme. Is this more likely to keep him viable or will he just be an afterthought for La Femme? I would like to see some viable males. So far, we're spoiled for choice when it comes to female content (morphs, clothes, hair, other accessories), while male content is a different story.

I do hope both are here to stay for a while.

Well, if you think about it, there are multiple advantages to this approach:

First and foremost, by creating unisex clothing (see the Fantasy Armor set above) the morph reduces the risk to vendors with non-selling products. There will be 2 figures who can use the product.

Second, you start off with a full set of hair and shoes for the morphed figure. Sure, high heeled boots aren't going to work on a male, but Cowboy boots, hiking boots, anything low heeled will work just fine on the male and female model.

Many already existing clothing will be available from your library if you have already purchased it. Jeans & TShirt by ryverthorn, Cowboy boots and hat, Deecey's recent scifi suit, etc.

Existing morphs from La Femme are available to L'Homme out of the box.

This is 3Dream's simple male using the La Femme Body Fat morph dialed in, wearing Ghostman's freebie suit and goggles and Prae's Bennie Hair for La Femme.

I stillssgbryan posted at 10:46PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371473

I also bought everything for Tyler. Would have bought more if more was made for him.

Since it wasn't, Wardrobe Wizard got a serious workout. You do have to spend some time to learn how to make it (or any of the other conversion systems) work, but the fitting room, with either Lyrra's fitting magnets, or FVerbaas' Prefitter is good enough.

I don't worry about clothing or hair - nowadays, I just need shoes.

As a customer, I give the vendors time to make content for a figure, but I am not waiting forever. Once I start converting content, it is pretty much over - unless the vendor makes a really, really good outfit.

Most of the stuff I made for Tyler was Free. I posted it in the Rendo Freebie page, but I eventually took all that down. I still probably have it on my Mac.

Glitterati3D posted at 11:27PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371479

MKDAWUSS posted at 9:21PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371467

I'm not quite sure what to make of L'Homme being just a morph set for La Femme. Is this more likely to keep him viable or will he just be an afterthought for La Femme? I would like to see some viable males. So far, we're spoiled for choice when it comes to female content (morphs, clothes, hair, other accessories), while male content is a different story.

I do hope both are here to stay for a while.

Well, if you think about it, there are multiple advantages to this approach:

First and foremost, by creating unisex clothing (see the Fantasy Armor set above) the morph reduces the risk to vendors with non-selling products. There will be 2 figures who can use the product.

... which means it has to look good on her for him to get anything whatsoever.

Y'know, I went into this whole L'Homme thing thinking, Great, we're gonna get a new male figure, and it's gonna be awesome. But since then? No previews of any kind, which is never a good sign, and now the realization that it's just a morph of LaF, and now anything that gets done for him is just gonna be some "unisex" thing so she can, as usual, look amazing with clothes cut to down here and three quarters' of her breasts on display.

C'mon, guys. Seriously? You're hobbling this mesh from the very start and reducing it to just another prop in the La Femme world. "Oh, but they can wear each other's clothes!" Yeah, got it. That's not much of a selling point, sorry. And yes, I realize I'm saying this while using a main character mesh myself that's an adaption of the old Krystal — and in the process found all manner of issues in texturing because the obj file is still Krystal, which means polygons have been moved around and squished together so it generally makes it really difficult to create good looking textures for anything without them being distorted — and now I can expect the same from the male flagship character from Rendo?

Seriously?

Not kidding, I am seriously close to being over this nonsense. Why does every damn thing in the Poserverse have to revolve around the needs of the freaking female characters? This is just continuing the mindset that the guys, as much as they are around here, are distantly secondary and not worth anyone's attention because, you know, guy stuff doesnt sell and we really need 875 bra and panty sets and 2,000 make up "characters" and God only knows how many "sexy teachers" and "sexy schoolgirls"... so why are you even bothering in the first place if this is just going to be a freaking morph that's limited by what the O Holy La Femme is capable of?

He'd better be freaking awesome, like so awesome "he makes Julienne fries and plays mp3s" awesome. I dont want to see some delicate little urban metrosexual that'll look good with all of La Femme's make up applications. Otherwise, honestly, I'm done with this nonsense.

That was my first thought, too - oh, no, not a male morph - but isn't that basically what DAZ did with the unimesh? And they're the figures many Poser users depend on still, over a decade later.

And maybe the benefits will go the other way: La Femme will get some non-pinup wear, because she can borrow it from L'Homme.

I like being able to share textures. No, I'm probably not going to need La Femme with a beard or L'Homme with lipstick very often, but for young characters, or toon/anime, a basic, no-makeup texture works well. (And is often hard to find. Even "no makeup" textures for female figures typically have some makeup, and look odd on children.)

Though as I understand it, DAZ's original unimesh was androgynous, because it was planned to be the base of both their male and female figures from the beginning. Hopefully La Femme was designed with similar considerations.

Sigh. Male clothing from a female morph looks awful, you can't get rid of the tits - the textures stretch and look rubbish and the content creators hated trying to make male clothing for the V4 male morphs and Genesis 1. Why do you think Daz returned to separate figures.

Hopefully Orion will stop me leaving Poser for good.

adzan posted at 3:13AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371500

Hopefully Orion will stop me leaving Poser for good.

Me too.

adzan posted at 5:52AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371500

Sigh. Male clothing from a female morph looks awful, you can't get rid of the tits - the textures stretch and look rubbish and the content creators hated trying to make male clothing for the V4 male morphs and Genesis 1. Why do you think Daz returned to separate figures.

Hopefully Orion will stop me leaving Poser for good.

DAZ did not, and still does not, have anything approximating the Morph brush. One day, Poser users will decide to learn their software instead of comparing it to DS.

You all are forgetting that clothes CAN be made exclusively for L'Homme even if he's just a morph. Clothing can be created with morphs already dialed in in the base figure, requiring the morph to be used. And thus no need to worry about the removal of breasts etc distorting things.

There is also talk about more tools.

One thing on my wishlist is a 'set me as new zero' option. Essentially save the geometry as it is at that moment, save current bone xyz as position, etc. Main work is with dependencies: what is defined say between 0 and 1 and value at save time is say 0.2 for the new zero must be redefined to range -0.2 and 0.8. Et voilá l'homme original emané de la femme! Genesis (the book, what else?) tells the story the other way round.

About clothing: use the right tools. Morphing cannot solve differences obtained by different pattern cut. Nothing can be done about that. Live with it. If LH were a totally new figure there would be no compatibility whatsoever. For the 'unisex' stuff you will need a clothing based morph from LF to LH. I expect they will provide, if not I will provide as soon as I can lay my hand on a copy of the LH geometry.

"Live with it."

Yeah, those of us who work with male figures get that a lot.

"If LH were a totally new figure there would be no compatibility whatsoever."

And so? Sorry, not seeing a problem with that.

:: sigh :: Whatever. Nothing in the Poserverse moves unless it has T&A, so I guess I should have foreseen this long ago. And I damn sure wont be surprised to find out, six months after release, that he's pretty much forgotten.

SeanMartin posted at 8:37AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371531

"Live with it."

Yeah, those of us who work with male figures get that a lot.

"If LH were a totally new figure there would be no compatibility whatsoever."

And so? Sorry, not seeing a problem with that.

:: sigh :: Whatever. Nothing in the Poserverse moves unless it has T&A, so I guess I should have foreseen this long ago. And I damn sure wont be surprised to find out, six months after release, that he's pretty much forgotten.

Sorry, Sean, but here's the problem with that....vendors won't support a male figure because of the risk involved in loss of sales. Solve that problem and we vendors will jump right on those male figures you want so badly.

You are ONE customer. Vendors who rely on this for their living cannot live on your sales alone. Being a vendor is almost a "hobby" for me as my widow benefits pay my bills and 3D money is just "mad money" for me. But, I'm lucky, unlike others who are truly trying to make a living doing this. They simply cannot afford to put out risky products that aren't likely to satisfy a large customer base.

So, please calm down and give L'Homme a valid trial period. I think you will be very pleased with the results. (Shhhh, I'll tell you a secret.................I've been testing L'Homme, but I'm under NDA, so I can't say any more.)

Using HiveWire 3D's Dusk and Dawn as an example, I am not as concerned about L'Homme being a morph of La Femme. The ability to blend La Femme and L'Homme body/body part morphs together would give a lot of fine-tuning control over their body shapes. I do this with Dusk. I've injected/copied morphs from Dawn to Dusk and have gotten some really, really nice refinements to Dusk's body shapes. And I won't need to do clothing conversions for outfits created for La Femme that would look good on a male physique. As long as the concerns about mesh stretching related to the breasts are addressed, I'm quite looking forward to L'Homee. Also, I hope we get additional morph packs specifically for L'Homme, just as Dusk has (Sculpted, Ruckus, Dante, Rodrigo, Creature, etc.) for even more variety.

I'm thrilled to use Dusk and truly look forward to adding L'Homme to my Runtime. Can barely stand the wait for L'Homme!

Lee

Here are some samples of Dusk with some of Dawn's morphs applied (mostly hip/thigh morphs.) So, if L'Homme is a morph of La Femme and the joints scale/translate properly to fit the L'Homme body shape, I'll be very happy with him. And La Femme is built using newer methods that Poser Pro 11 supports, so I suspect that the joints won't be an issue. We will soon find out!

Lee

Sorry, Sean, but here's the problem with that....vendors won't support a male figure because of the risk involved in loss of sales.

Then why bother introducing a new one in the first place? Why get a bunch of people excited about something that you felt from the start is such a risk that no vendor will touch it for fear of sales?

And thanks for making sure that customers such as myself are kept in their place, grateful for whatever crumbs we might get. So appreciated.

Y'know, we have some amazing vendors around here. I am in constant awe at what they can create out of nothing. But when it's a relentless parade of skankwear — even after the customers have said, "Hey, how about something that's not skankwear?" — all that talent just gets reduced to naught.

I still have some very small hope that this thing will be good, but after reading your comment, I'm even more doubtful it'll last that long. After all, you know, we're such a risk, and the world needs more than 850 bra and panty sets, because T&A seems to be the only thing the vendors know how to do anymore. So I repeat: why did you folks even start on this in the first place???

I'm outa this thread.