Keep in mind that an rbg combine node is an 8 bit combiner math node, it is not an input node. 0=0, and 1=255. Depending on what you plug it into can give very odd results if you don't plan on those math conditions as well. 

All the reasons to revamp the Color Picker to express all varying values including hex color.

hborre posted at 7:13 AM Thu, 6 April 2023 - #4460977

May I suggest using the CombineRGB node plugged into the SubSurface Radius to control the tinting on the skin shader.  It's easier to input your values rather than typing a string of numbers.  

I also use it independently to check the color that the node is imparting so I get an idea of how the SSS is responding.  Below is an image showing the actual color being given in the shader arrangement above.

It's convenient to actually see what you're inputting rather than doing a trial-and-error guess of your radius values.

I'll have to check but those might be spacial coordinates.

For the old mathematician that I was, (x, y, z) are spatial coordinates, but it was loooong ago... 

That came to mind but, as you mentioned, they are spatial coordinates,

Again from Cycles documentation on principled BSDF node:

Average distance that light scatters below the surface. Higher radius gives a softer appearance, as light bleeds into shadows and through the object. The scattering distance is specified separately for the RGB channels, to render materials such as skin where red light scatters deeper. The X, Y and Z values are mapped to the R, G and B values, respectively.

This is looking gorgeous!

What are the terms of use for this? Can we use this setup for commercial characters?

@Afrodite-Ohki

Sure if you want.

@Afrodite-Ohki

Sure if you want.

inner mouth parts

I recreated the suggested Cycles setup for my new character, Eliezer.  I'm getting dark circles under his eyes and I'm wondering if there is any advice on how to alleviate that!

I think that's the problem Ghostship suggested solving by plugging in the R output from the SeparateRGB node into the Subsurface input on the PrincipledBsdf node.

That helped.  Thanks so much 

Yes, that is the recommended remedy for dark, baggy eyes.  However, your SSS is too high, his face is glowing.  What is your Subsurface Radius?  If the values are high, you need to lower the Subsurface value to a minimum of 0.01.  Plugging in the SeparateRGB node might control it but I doubt it.  Also, the Clearcoat channel is in use, plug the bump into the Clearcoat Normal in addition to the Normal.  The Gloss/Specular Converter compound node is not being used, either use it or delete it from the shader.

Another thing you might want to check. On the bump and specular maps, click to open the Texture Manager, and set the Custom Gamma to 1. Do this for normal maps also, if they are being used.

The only map that should use "Use Gamma value from Render Settings" should be the diffuse/color map. 

hborre posted at 12:11 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461552

Yes, that is the recommended remedy for dark, baggy eyes.  However, your SSS is too high, his face is glowing.  What is your Subsurface Radius?  If the values are high, you need to lower the Subsurface value to a minimum of 0.01.  Plugging in the SeparateRGB node might control it but I doubt it.  Also, the Clearcoat channel is in use, plug the bump into the Clearcoat Normal in addition to the Normal.  The Gloss/Specular Converter compound node is not being used, either use it or delete it from the shader.

Radius settings are from the layout example from GhostShip (0.110000, 0.030000, 0.015000) What should it be set to?  I'll move the Bump over to the Clearcoat.  Thank you! 

hborre posted at 12:11 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461552

Yes, that is the recommended remedy for dark, baggy eyes.  However, your SSS is too high, his face is glowing.  What is your Subsurface Radius?  If the values are high, you need to lower the Subsurface value to a minimum of 0.01.  Plugging in the SeparateRGB node might control it but I doubt it.  Also, the Clearcoat channel is in use, plug the bump into the Clearcoat Normal in addition to the Normal.  The Gloss/Specular Converter compound node is not being used, either use it or delete it from the shader.

The Gloss/Spec is being used for the Poser Surface Node that's collapsed.  

Radius settings are from the layout example from GhostShip (0.110000, 0.030000, 0.015000) What should it be set to?  I'll move the Bump over to the Clearcoat.  Thank you! 

you may not want to use SSS on the EYE socket. I mean, it's hidden and you don't see it so why bother with SSS on it. That is one issue with the dark circles and sometimes the glowy rings around the eyes.

@ChromeStar I'm using the same shader on the gums, tongue, and inner mouth as I am for the skin. Just got to "bump" up the bump and gloss for those parts. It will be different for each texture/bump map you use.

I posted this in the P12 forum but it's valid here. This is my Teeth shader.

hborre posted at 1:35 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461567

RAMWorks posted at 12:55 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461558

hborre posted at 12:11 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461552

Yes, that is the recommended remedy for dark, baggy eyes.  However, your SSS is too high, his face is glowing.  What is your Subsurface Radius?  If the values are high, you need to lower the Subsurface value to a minimum of 0.01.  Plugging in the SeparateRGB node might control it but I doubt it.  Also, the Clearcoat channel is in use, plug the bump into the Clearcoat Normal in addition to the Normal.  The Gloss/Specular Converter compound node is not being used, either use it or delete it from the shader.

The Gloss/Spec is being used for the Poser Surface Node that's collapsed.  

Radius settings are from the layout example from GhostShip (0.110000, 0.030000, 0.015000) What should it be set to?  I'll move the Bump over to the Clearcoat.  Thank you! 

I hate to disagree but it is not connected, there is no noodle connector visible, and it doesn't belong on the PoserSurface.  The Radius settings are fine as presented by Ghostship although various other values may be more appropriate depending on the character and model.  For those values, I would set the Subsurface to 0.01 to begin and increase incrementally until you get a render that looks to you.  In your case, if you have the Redfilter node connected to the Subsurface channel and the figure renders fine, then your problem has been corrected.

'Tis connected!  *wink* 

hborre posted at 12:11 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461552

The Gloss/Specular Converter compound node is not being used, either use it or delete it from the shader.

The Gloss/Spec is being used for the Poser Surface Node that's collapsed.  

Expanding on this in case it's not clear. It's not being used as hborre points out. If you do want to use it, the correct way to do so would be to plug the Roughness and Specular outputs from it into the corresponding inputs on the PrincipledBsdf node. That's what it's for. Not having played with it myself (yet), I can't say how much difference it will make.

you may not want to use SSS on the EYE socket. I mean, it's hidden and you don't see it so why bother with SSS on it. That is one issue with the dark circles and sometimes the glowy rings around the eyes.

@ChromeStar I'm using the same shader on the gums, tongue, and inner mouth as I am for the skin. Just got to "bump" up the bump and gloss for those parts. It will be different for each texture/bump map you use.

@RAMWolff

>>>> 'Tis connected!  *wink* 

Two things.

1) In  your screen shot, the Roughness and Specular outputs of that Gloss/Specular converter node are not connected to anything. So it's not doing anything.

2) The Roughness and Specular outputs of that converter node DO NOT connect to PoserSurface node. They are designed to work with the Physical Surface root node, or the Principled BSDF node (which itself is connected to the Cycles Surface root node).

In case there is confusion about which node people are pointing out. The Gloss/Spec converter shown here isn't connected to anything at the moment. This is the one people are saying you can delete.

Changes:

I posted this in the P12 forum but it's valid here. This is my Teeth shader.

@DC thanks!

@Afrodite-Ohki

Sure if you want.

In case there is confusion about which node people are pointing out. The Gloss/Spec converter shown here isn't connected to anything at the moment. This is the one people are saying you can delete.

So I tried the Gloss/Spec converter out. Maybe the two characters I used have particularly bright specular maps, but it was a mess, washed out and super bright. Then I looked in the converter. All it's doing is multiplying the specular map by 12.5 (no wonder I got super bright results), and the roughness value is just a fixed 1 minus the glossiness you enter. That doesn't seem very useful. You can edit the roughness yourself instead of needing a node to obfuscate the actual value, and if you need to adjust the brightness of the specular map, wouldn't a bright/contrast node be a more practical choice?

The Bright/Contrast node is very tricky and finicky.  It doesn't respond well to negative values.  You might get more mileage from the Contrast channel but not in the way you eexpect.

DCArt posted at 4:18 PM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461596

Changes:

As posted on page three the SS Radius numbers are: 0.110000, 0.030000, 0.015000

Still getting the dark discoloration around the eyes....

Unplug the connection to "Subsurface" and set that to .01 (not 1). Also make sure that the bump and spec maps are set to gamma correction of 1, instead of "Use gamma value from render settings:. The previews appear as though you still have them set to the latter.

@Ramworks To me the problem looks like the issue we were running into at beta testing. Two SSS mat zones being in contact with each other producing that grey/green color at the border where they touch. Did you turn off SSS for the eye socket? Is the eyeball using SSS? The Lacrimal? Turn any and all SSS off for those parts and the grey/green circles should go away.

I've never seen an example where SSS was needed for the eyeballs or lacrimal.

Would make sense as it's a different type of tissue anyway in RL.

Looking forward to playing some more with the shader tonight,  Initial experiments were super successful.

How are you hooking up eyelashes?

@RAMworks - Is it your intention to use a generic color chip as opposed to the Color Map on the SeparateRGB Node?  It appears that you are making radical changes without understanding what the node connections are doing.  I agree with Ghostship2, SSS is unnecessary for the eyesocket, lacrimal, and eyes.  As mentioned, turn off all SSS for those body parts.  Also, change the Scatter Group ID value to a different random number, especially for those body parts that are in close proximity to each other.

All the eye surfaces have just simple setups so no SS used.  I THINK Denise's suggestion may be the way to go with these maps.  I know that the model that I got the eye detail from has some darkness around the eyes.  He's a Latin man and many from the Latin culture have this darkness but that green hue was really not good.  I think this looks pretty good now.  Skin looks a little dry but I can tweak.  Thanks for the suggestions folks!  

@hborre @RAMWorks I had not noticed that about his Separate RGB node. That is totaly wrong at least what it's supposed to be doing. It's there to modulate the glossiness of the skin at places like the eyebrows were you want less SSS and less glossiness. If you have a color chip in there instead of an 8-bit map of the red channel from the color map then it ain't gonna work.

Yes, I reconnected all that.  Last night I was messing around with ideas on how to eliminate the dark greenish circles so used the color chip and then saved the file and then forgot to reconnect when I made the screen grab.  Sorry, not sleeping very well lately, my left rotator cuff is a mess and the pain at night has me fighting for sleep so not really with it.  

That skin is still showing SSS glow, predominantly around the eyelids.  Your reference to a 'Latin man' is too generic.  I am assuming that you are referring to New World Latinos; their SSS should be darker because of cultural intermixing.  I suggest a Subsurface Radius of 0.367, 0.137, 0.068.  

@hborre @RAMWorks I had not noticed that about his Separate RGB node. That is totaly wrong at least what it's supposed to be doing. It's there to modulate the glossiness of the skin at places like the eyebrows were you want less SSS and less glossiness. If you have a color chip in there instead of an 8-bit map of the red channel from the color map then it ain't gonna work.

The skin is now rendering with striations all over the place.  It's like the geometry lines are rendering a lighter color.  *sigh* Notice the forearm and fingers!  

The skin is now rendering with striations all over the place.  It's like the geometry lines are rendering a lighter color.  *sigh* Notice the forearm and fingers!  

That looks like it might be mesh or subdiv related, or something with mesh smoothing.

It's set to Unimesh and Sub D level 1.  This doesn't happen with the Physical or Poser root nodes!  This is a quicky Firefly render

I thought the shader provided here was for Superfly specifically? It seems to me it would not render correctly in Firefly because of that?

@Rhia474

you are correct. I provided a Superfly shader not a Firefly shader.

Silly people.  The Superfly renders are showing the geometry lines, I switched to Firefly with my separate set up for that to make the above render!