Remember the days when the forums had lots people talking about all sorts of things,  including making 3D art with programs like poeser and DS. 

What happened? 

Some of us are still here. But many are gone.

Some of us are still here. But many are gone.

I do agree. 

Well there are wars breaking out everywhere? How much of the 3d community was actually from some of these places that have new priorities?  Could just be social media fatigue too! OMG I've been lurking around here for 24 years!

Honestly I've been a member @ Rendo since 2004 and the Daz Forums have always been a bit of quiet here. It's not really a new thing. Also It's not the primary forum for DS users and never really was. Honestly I post here less than I used to as at times I have felt the wrath of moderators who feel that anything other than a passing comment is an "Argument". There are also a core group in some parts of the forum who have strong beliefs in particular tools purity and feel the need to stand on anyone's fingers who dares to bring any counter points to a discussion or even suggestions for future development. TBH it just got old for me, I do stop by from time to time and see the same antagonists having the same arguments from 2015.

In the past I have ran private competitions, posted relevant Daz update threads, vendored at the storefront here, offered help to users and have even been asked to moderate this forum. But over the years I have noticed the threads that see the most attention tend to be contentious ones with a small vocal crowd shouting down any 'unwelcome' ideas.

Poser is currently in some kind of years old content crisis, despite regular updates, as the vendors jumped ship/platform years ago when Poser content sales numbers floundered. Primarily due to a lack of a modern base figure and development tools. I believe the cry in the day was something like "Genesis we don't need Genesis, Poser is a creation tool not a content platform!" and I guess those loud voices got what they asked for... Leading to the current situation where a DS content importer is just not worth the investment time for Daz 3D and the Poser faithful will not even entertain the idea of a Renderosity developed importer. Poser is also selling at a base price of $250 USD which is creating a blockage to growing the user base in comparison to other software suites. And despite the storefronts appearance these are primarily Poser forums. (Check the best selling items page it is and has been consistently for years over 90% DS products. But on the back end the support for a DS crowd has always been minimal and an afterthought).

Another factor to consider is the growth of platforms like Discord over the old style forum setup. These often provide a less curated 3rd party environment for discussion with more diverse mixing of users. As far as I know there are no Poser or Renderosity Discord forums, official or otherwise.

So I would say it is a combination of the shrinkage of the Poser user base, competing technology platforms and diversity of forum environments are the main factors at play. But what would I know. ;)

Just to give you an idea. Here is a ten year old thread regarding Renderosity's support for DS: https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2877803/daz-studio-gallery-question

Well, all sorts of things happened I guess; a form of evolution if you will. That's the pesky thing about technology for ya; just won't stay put, dag nabbit!

I came to Renderosity via Daz, via Poser, via Lightwave I guess, with a few other false starts prior to that.

I've stuck with Lightwave mostly as I've sooo much invested over the years, both time and $$$ wise, but ultimately it just makes sense to my aging wetware, even with it's quirks & foibles.

If your not familiar with the Newtek/Lightwave saga, not really of any concern.  We've been around forever in software terms (early 90's); essentially in Limbo these days, but not dead. The proverbial Phoenix if you will.

The previous forum on Newtek isn't open to Lightwave discussion, and current the one, https://lightwave3d.com isn't really functionally ready for prime time just yet.

In the mean time, that's actually been a plus ironically. By NOT having deal with updates & chasing tail with changes, I was able to figure out ways around most of what was left broken or confusing with LW, and what wasn't explained in Daz.

As a result, I'm able export nearly everything out to Lightwave

The one stumble for LW is dForce hair. Blender can handle that though, so I need to put the proverbial gub to my head and learn Blender so I can convert those products to LW.

In the meantime, I'm revisiting, and in some cases, re-re-revisiting, older products as some ah-Ha moments happen, or, "So THAT'S what that means" occur with a plug-in, or technique, or mislabeled UI, ...

... or simply forgot I bought the item.  Something goes on sale and I throw it into the toybox, and ...  Did I mention the wetware drying out in spots?

I any event, older products with new PBR software & techniques really breathes life back into them.

And between the two sites, you really do have access to many of the planets best digital artists.

Yes, it is a lot quieter than before. Some factors...

It's January/February, when people find time to play with the stuff they purchased back in November (Black Friday).

A lot of Poser / DAZ stuff has simply been done - we have a very mature ecosystem that needs very little activity to keep it going (other than archiving and keeping things online and available).

Some long-time users, especially those with great technical skills and knowledge, have passed away or gone quiet.

Many 2D image-makers have found what they need in AI image making (though Poser has a rich part to play there, re: making input for Controlnets and Img2Img).

A key Poser-friendly node and people-funnel / showcase, in the form of the regular Digital Art Live magazine, had to suspend publication due to the triple-whammy of piracy, artists swapping to the new AI image generators, and the cost-of-living crisis.

DeviantArt isn't what it was, which doesn't help funnel people toward Poser.

The Vue landscape software going subscription did not help, not the hacking and destroying of the Vue content store. The Poser to Vue workflow was simple, quick and painless, and gave access to a great render engine. It still is (still works), but in terms of sales Vue has abandoned its hobbyist users.

Many people are still six months away from getting back to financial normal, after all the lockdown disruptions and inflation. There won't be that regular monthly '$50 spare' to spend without thinking on 'bits of software and 3D figures/clothing' for a while yet. If they're not buying, they're not using.

Young people have a zillion other things to entice them, in terms of creativity. Many of these are huge time-sinks.

Reading these post I realize so much has happened that I was unaware of.  One thing is a given, I will continue to use my 3D software until I am not physically able.

You guys are making a lot of valid points.  And whether the governments labels it or not,  it certainly feels like North America atleast is in a recession, a slow down,  but with inflationary pressures at the same time, prices on everything going up, so hobbies are something that end up lower on the priority scale when rent and food is obviously more important. And as mentioned,  3D has always been a global community and chaos in certain parts of the world will also curtail and stop participation. And we can't underestimate the AI generated art disruptor, cause folks that subscribe to one of those, have whole new communities to participate in, whether or not they recognize the ethical concerns. So yah,  15-20 years is a pretty good run,  but it feels, the times, they are changing.

Just curious has anybody tried the Ai generated art stuff? 

Still too quiet,  so I'll offer this Daz Studio 3DL render of Dante78's watermill I rendered last month. 

It's a really nice model with good textures,  but the dark brown poser renders on the store page do not do the quality of the set justice.

I pressed the 50% button on the picture,  why does it not keep the sizing when posted? 

Super nice 👍🏼 image. I started here so long ago, had my own website, then moved to here to sell models. Did alright but due to so much theft, I just gave them away and then kind of just backed off with creating models and created my art that I enjoyed.  There are still some amazing people here with a lot of talent. Because of their help I moved forward and I do create models again but from Zbrush, and use them for my art.  Time does move forward and also goes in different directions. But it is super quiet here.

So true about the thefts and the warez sites,  and as you say,  it is very disheartening for creators. We're gonna stay happy, upbeat and positive. Glad to hear that you have found your creative inspiration again.  Art is supposed to bring joy into the world. Or atleast a reflected  version of it.  It is one of the great things about coming to the community sites,  you get to see new art every single day. 

I'm still here, of and on. It probably looks like I'm on all the time because I just leave a Rendo tab open all the time, but I only check it once in a while.

FirstBastion, that's one impressive Water Mill render. Did you have to do much with it to make it look good in Iray? I might have to put it on the Wishlist!

Unfortunately there just isn't a lot of innovation happening in the DS or Poser world right now, which might be part of the reason there isn't much chatter. I don't want to throw any shade, but Poser just doesn't seem to be moving forward much at all. There is one user that has been making some extremely impressive still life style renders with it, so maybe there is hope. DAZ is still moving forward, but there are so many things that could be added to DS to generate more interest. Maybe DS 5 will be out before we all fall off our mortal coils.

Like others have noted, AI has probably re-routed a lot of potential focus on 3D. I played with it for a few hours. It could be fun, but I do enjoy setting things up myself, and AI could get just as costly. Last time I checked installing it on my computer to reduce costs was more work than I was willing to do when I have a lot of stuff to make images in DS.

IMHO Blender has made some real strides. That could be where a lot of people with interest in 3D are going as well. I moved on to Blender from Carrara for projects that don't involve of focus on DS content (mostly landscape scale animation work). Eevee is sooo nice to work with when it can support the project.

Anyway, I just thought I'd stop in and say "Hi". It's nice to see all the familiar "faces"!!

I am still checking the forums at Daz, Rendo, and HiveWire almost every day, but honestly I am putting more energy into Blender than Poser/DS. I have always been one who prefers modelling and making content than actually rendering it. Am now trying to learn procedural materials in Blender, and may dip my toes into learning geometry nodes.... 8|

The answer is quiet abvious. 3D applications are not competitive as hobby in front of AI, not competitive in cost (if you start to calculate the cost of your Daz librairy you will see...), in time (to create and render) and now also in quality . So for hobbyists the choice is easy. If you want to create all and to control all, you can use Blender, if you want a good result without spending  money, you install and use stable diffusion. I bought a Vue licence before Vue has been sold, I bought a C4D licence in 2008, I bought Poser long time ago too and I used Daz Studio, until one year ago... now I use it to create poses for Controlnet and I use Stable diffusion. Today I looked at the Daz gallery and I was surprised to see how the quality of the images is lower than one or two years ago. If you check the AI gallery on deviantart, it's a neverending torrent... what do you think this people did one or two years ago... a lot of them used 3D applications.

@EA - Sure AI's impact is going to be broad and substantial. But it will also be transformative as well. Photography didn't necessarily wipe out fine art painting, but it did transform it. There are a lot of parallels here between the two. 

I thought I would see what AI thought about the subject. I asked: "Will AI art kill other forms of digital art?"

The AI responded in long form, I then asked it to summarize the answer. Here is the result:

"While AI-generated art is a significant development in digital art, it's unlikely to kill other forms of digital art. Here's why:

- Diversity: Digital art encompasses various techniques and tools beyond AI, allowing for a wide range of creative expression.

- Human Touch: Many people appreciate the emotional depth and intentionality that human artists bring to their work, which AI-generated art may lack.

- Collaboration: Rather than replacing other forms of digital art, AI technology often complements and enhances them, fostering new artistic possibilities through collaboration.

- Artistic Communities: Digital art communities thrive on diversity and innovation, with AI-generated art becoming a part of this ecosystem rather than dominating it.

- Audience Preferences: Ultimately, the survival of any art form depends on audience preferences, and there will always be audiences for different forms of digital art.

In essence, AI-generated art adds to the richness of the digital art landscape without eliminating other forms of digital art."

Interesting response but maybe the AI is just being friendly and hiding it's true plans for Global domination. I find the response regarding communities interesting, one thing I have found is the sense of awe when seeing a true masterwork created in Daz, Blender or Poser. You really get the feeling that someone spent significant time and effort in crafting a piece of art that is true to them. Creating a kind of unspoken bond or kinship between the audience and the artist. In comparison I sometimes find that AI art feels a little more disposable, especially when it's flowing in torrents. Sometimes I see something and I'm like "wow" and then on closer inspection change my mind to "Oh, it's just AI art" and move on quite quickly. Maybe this idea is just an adjustment phase, as over time the line between straight AI art and other mediums will continue to blend together more and more. They likely had similar reactions when comparing digital art to more traditional art forms in its early days also.

It also reminds me of my early art training when asked to draw comparisons on Art vs Illustration. To me it seems like art comes from within and illustration is created by a third party adhering to a brief. Sound familiar? There is a certain amount of lack of control that innately comes with most AI art when handing the idea over to the model.  Begging the question 'who is the true artist behind AI works?'

Though one thing I am sure of is, an artist can never have too many brushes in their set. 

Possibly the forums could be livened up here by adding some AI chatbots to engage with the last bastions of great digital artists? ;)

Like all fads and forms, including this one, there will be variation in popularity. Trick is staying cool. (Vinyl anyone?)  That being said, the world and particularly the west has been so poorly managed and is unfortunately corrupt. (More public servants up on charges everyday) Disposable income is non-existent when hamburger is $6 a pound. (on sale).

Right now. the market will rest on products that add on, to items customers already have, as well innovative products and tools. Prices should drop at least 30% across the board as well.

It will never come back to the golden days,  technology has moved on.  Has anyone seen SORA AI cinematic samples from OPenAI????  Like the future is now,  just out there.

Freebie for DS if anyone is interested.

Renderosity Free Stuff area:   https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/97322/1stbastion-candles-light-the-darkness

I think one of the things we'll miss, in what will likely be reduced forums activity, is the miss-es. Poser's (non-Python coding) community has always been quite populated with females, whereas the AI community is very solidly male as far as I can see - with the very rare exceptions proving the rule.

That said, I see Poser and its wealth of royalty-free content as a valuable tool in "guiding" AI image generation to exactly what's wanted in the final image, and consistently so.  Thus they're not really competitors, for anyone with any foresight. The misconception that they are competitors may diminish, if Poser "does a Krita" and integrates AI.

Think I'll play with my toys here. At least all the adverts are relevant to the package I'm using, and rarely quite as sleazy and second rate as the ones currently appearing on the DAZ Forum.

Regards,

Richard.

I browse with Firefox  and it generally does not display any ads on any site.

A not so quiet night. Daz Studio render using scene only lighting.

Used the Last Chance Night-Time sky.

I've been rendering less since G9 came out, and my purchasing as definitely decreased significantly. 

There's a lot of things I like about G9, but I mostly render male characters and hate the chest for the male shapes.

I get why the figure is designed the way it is. Content for female characters sells more, so that's the priority. I just wish someone would come up with a male shape that doesn't have the sharp crease under and between the breasts, and the odd squished flat look. 

Lumping all the clothes in together also makes shopping a lot tougher. 

I have bought a couple great looking G9 hairs,  but other than that,  I'm still heavily invested in G8 only. The variety of characters help tell my stories.  And Genesis 8 characters all look sufficiently different.

I've been lurking around here fo a few days, and finally decided to join the fun...yeah not much traffic, except for the galleries, obviously...

Anyway, Hello to old and new online friends, longtime DS/3DL hobbyist here:)

I still visit here every so often, i left poser a few years back now, as i felt with new updates to poser were not adding anything useful that i would use, and so moved over to DS, sadly this was also at the same time that most of my work was being pulled for TOS, My home is now on a popular art site, thus the lack of visits here, and tbh, has more of a community there.

I think that the fact that not all the threads are shown by default contributes to the perception of not much activity.

Maybe all threads should be shown, without choosing a time frame from the form

I been working a lot for the county flying UAV's that has been a lot of fun. :)

Plus I hardly hang out in any of the 3d forums including those ones at daz3d.com  any more mostly because the moderation of most forums suck royally.  it seems that a lot of moderators are power egoistical & suck the fun out trying to post anything that is common sense.  and after having my post remove for stupid things like posting animations that have pg13 rating or posting a comment that may not be politically correct  gets old fast so pretty much I stop patronizing the forums and stores , I not up to speed with all this crazy woke crap going on in the world and hoping its a fade that passes soon.

But lastly I still do work with daz studio but i just never post my work in the forums or galleries any more, because of the reasons above. 

this is my latest animations I did with daz studio hopefully the mods will let the link stand so you can watch it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVccqtFT8_o

Real world drone flying has to be an exciting endeavor.

Flying drones & RC Model aircraft is getting progressively more difficult in the UK.

It appears that the Civil Aviation Authority has woken up to a miniscule threat and over-reacted.

As usual.

Drones can fly, so they WILL be used as weapons to bring down civil aircraft every day without fail all over the country unless a paperwork safety net is created. So.. A license is needed to fly any small flying vehicle over 250g/0.5lb (I think that's the cutoff). A criminal record check is required and then each flying vehicle has to be registered. My dad made model aircraft in the 1950's from balsa & tissue paper and has kept them going since - and some of his planes are original despite the crashes he's had. These aircraft now are perceived as lethal threats to life, limb and can/will be used to destroy the containment on a nuclear power station. A 1.5kg/3lb balsa and tissue glider with a 12ft wingspan. It's insane. It's the sort of stupid knee jerk bureaucratic response that makes life nearly impossible for the law abiding and doesn't affect the sort of people whom it's supposedly aimed at stopping. If you are out to spread terror, would you be bothered with getting a license or a criminal record check?

So Daz finally did it,  they added an AI generation tool to their site.

IMO an inbelievably stupid move, but whatever.. I'm out of there. I find the AI invasion utterly tiresome.

There is an inevitability,  like a tidal wave sweeping through. 

Will soon be fully integrated into warfare...as a decision maker...

I think we can be sure that Daz will jump on any bandwagon that is current if they think they can make a buck. It happened with NFT's, now AI. Can't blame them, but they seem to be more reactive than proactive.

And its not like we haven't seen a dozen "cautionary tale" movies of the dangers of AI, and the powers that be go happily skipping along towards Armageddon as they chase the almighty buck.

wscottart posted at 7:13 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481095

Well there are wars breaking out everywhere? How much of the 3d community was actually from some of these places that have new priorities?  Could just be social media fatigue too! OMG I've been lurking around here for 24 years!

So Daz finally did it,  they added an AI generation tool to their site.

FirstBastion posted at 10:27 AM Thu, 4 April 2024 - #4483243

So Daz finally did it,  they added an AI generation tool to their site.

Not only that, they have succumbed to the "pandering" of agendas.  You go look at their site, they have now in categories "NON BINARY".  I'm sorry but every sane person that uses daz or no longer uses daz knows Gen 9 was a STUPID move and pandering to the small 1 percent of people in the world that don't exist.  nuf said.  soon as i learn blender/zbrush, I am done with DAZ.  i will not give them a penny anymore.  i have ways to get what i need without paying a cent.

gohanf22 posted at 12:55 PM Tue, 9 April 2024 - #4483402

FirstBastion posted at 10:27 AM Thu, 4 April 2024 - #4483243

So Daz finally did it,  they added an AI generation tool to their site.

Not only that, they have succumbed to the "pandering" of agendas.  You go look at their site, they have now in categories "NON BINARY".  I'm sorry but every sane person that uses daz or no longer uses daz knows Gen 9 was a STUPID move and pandering to the small 1 percent of people in the world that don't exist.  nuf said.  soon as i learn blender/zbrush, I am done with DAZ.  i will not give them a penny anymore.  i have ways to get what i need without paying a cent.

Right now 3d is a difficult time anyway.
DAZ struggles to find its way and made a lot of bad decisions, Poser is stuck in the 2000s and has become meaningless as a vintage figure animation app and Reallusion is super expensive and has a steep learning curve, if you really want its full potential.
Reallusion figures and Metahumans have their limits compared to Poser or DAZ-Genesis figures.

And I will add that AI is destroying Artist's way of life and careers.  People making things in 15 mins is NOT ART. It is ART THEFT no matter how you look at it.  If you are mainly using AI to create your stuff, that is stealing from other people and if you do not have consent to use their artwork, that is THEFT PERIOD.  I'm glad there are many that are taking a stand on this and trying to make AI not allowed in the Entertainment Industries cause it is literally THEFT.

And apparently it is going to get a lot quieter. There is an inevitability in the air.

Just getting back on topic.

Might be time to climb a mountain and do a little meditating...

I know its old school. Modelled, textured, and rendered years ago when iray was just added and Ai gen wasn't even on the horizon.

And I will add that AI is destroying Artist's way of life and careers.  People making things in 15 mins is NOT ART. It is ART THEFT no matter how you look at it.  If you are mainly using AI to create your stuff, that is stealing from other people and if you do not have consent to use their artwork, that is THEFT PERIOD.  I'm glad there are many that are taking a stand on this and trying to make AI not allowed in the Entertainment Industries cause it is literally THEFT.

gohanf22 posted at 7:19 AM Wed, 10 April 2024 - #4483432

And I will add that AI is destroying Artist's way of life and careers.  People making things in 15 mins is NOT ART. It is ART THEFT no matter how you look at it.  If you are mainly using AI to create your stuff, that is stealing from other people and if you do not have consent to use their artwork, that is THEFT PERIOD.  I'm glad there are many that are taking a stand on this and trying to make AI not allowed in the Entertainment Industries cause it is literally THEFT.

IMO, you are completely correct with this. That's why every posted AI image isn't protected by owner's rights.
If anyone's AI image would be useful to me, I'd steal it and won't give a sh*t.
Generative AI is nothing more than a tech show saying pretty much:
"Look, what can be done, now"
Nothing more and nothing less.
AI users are no artists!

Time will tell, it helps to think of AI as a tool rather than as an evil cotton spinning machine.

Like most tools it's use could be nefarious or productive, it depends on the wielder or the implementation in use.

Personally I don't think it is a bad thing for a business to be on the technological edge. Honestly if you are not moving with technology, you are being left behind to some degree. 

And regardless of whether anyone likes it or not, LLM's are here and are being implemented in almost every possible imaginable application and likely some that are entirely unforeseen at this point. LLM's are an established disruptive technology and at this point there really isn't a two fork road anymore.

Honestly If you don't like AI you might need to shift from using computers/cell phones at some point and perhaps move off the grid.

I know art is a very personal thing and honestly I still like the feel of a human creative process visible in "artwork" but at this point it is getting harder and harder to distinguish or even define what that truly means.

I thought I would help you guys out by making a list of things to avoid such as industries that are integrating AI or LLM assistance into their workflow or Software companies who are integrating AI as part of their overall offering. Just to help put some perspective on this for you.

Industries

- Healthcare

- Banking

- Logistics

- Retail Services

- Cyber Security

- Transportation

- Marketing

- Defense

- Coding

- Education

- Office Admin

- Legal

- Language Translation

- Data management

3D Software Companies embracing AI

- Maxon (Owners of Zbrush & Cinema 4D)

- Autodesk ( Maya, 3DS, Autocad, mudbox)

- Blender (Multiple AI addons including an official stability addon)

- Adobe (Generative AI in PS etc)

- Sketchup (Official Sketchup Diffusion)

- Rhino (Supporting numerous official addons to integrate Generative AI)

... ...

General Companies

- IBM

- Amazon (Including web services)

- Microsoft

- Google

- Alphabet

- Adobe

- Oracle

- Baidu

- Nvidia

- Meta

- GoDaddy (Renderosity's Website host provider...)

I can add more if you would like but these are just a small sample of some of the major ones.

Hope this helps.

Time will tell, it helps to think of AI as a tool rather than as an evil cotton spinning machine.

Like most tools it's use could be nefarious or productive, it depends on the wielder or the implementation in use.

Personally I don't think it is a bad thing for a business to be on the technological edge. Honestly if you are not moving with technology, you are being left behind to some degree. 

And regardless of whether anyone likes it or not, LLM's are here and are being implemented in almost every possible imaginable application and likely some that are entirely unforeseen at this point. LLM's are an established disruptive technology and at this point there really isn't a two fork road anymore.

Honestly If you don't like AI you might need to shift from using computers/cell phones at some point and perhaps move off the grid.

I know art is a very personal thing and honestly I still like the feel of a human creative process visible in "artwork" but at this point it is getting harder and harder to distinguish or even define what that truly means.

I thought I would help you guys out by making a list of things to avoid such as industries that are integrating AI or LLM assistance into their workflow or Software companies who are integrating AI as part of their overall offering. Just to help put some perspective on this for you.

Industries

- Healthcare

- Banking

- Logistics

- Retail Services

- Cyber Security

- Transportation

- Marketing

- Defense

- Coding

- Education

- Office Admin

- Legal

- Language Translation

- Data management

3D Software Companies embracing AI

- Maxon (Owners of Zbrush & Cinema 4D)

- Autodesk ( Maya, 3DS, Autocad, mudbox)

- Blender (Multiple AI addons including an official stability addon)

- Adobe (Generative AI in PS etc)

- Sketchup (Official Sketchup Diffusion)

- Rhino (Supporting numerous official addons to integrate Generative AI)

... ...

General Companies

- IBM

- Amazon (Including web services)

- Microsoft

- Google

- Alphabet

- Adobe

- Oracle

- Baidu

- Nvidia

- Meta

- GoDaddy (Renderosity's Website host provider...)

I can add more if you would like but these are just a small sample of some of the major ones.

Hope this helps.

This is not direction I intended this thread to go. And,  I am certainly in the NO AI ART camp, and AI ART is Copyright infringement,  but can you go start your own thread to rail against it somewhere else. 

This is not direction I intended this thread to go. And,  I am certainly in the NO AI ART camp, and AI ART is Copyright infringement,  but can you go start your own thread to rail against it somewhere else. 

@FirstBastion I thought you would like this.

Top 100 3D Artist Montage | Eternal Ascent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNjMSFLkMZA