Hey people.

I am animating with preview renders, so it's important to have clear textures. 

I am good mostly over everything but the ground or flat surfaces gets blurry with the camera angle and distance. 

I tried every option at Poser 11, all camera, preview render or preferences but I could not solve this problem.

Here you can see what I mean. There is a line and after that it gets blurry. It gets worse with the camera angle and distance. All the characters and objects do not have this problem as you see the walls and pillars are perfectly clear. 

I repeat that I use preview renders and this is from a preview. I need the solution for preview.

Anyone got any solution? 

Thank you!

Did you check the resolution in the settings? Also, check the textures themselves as some of the textures I've used haven't been of a good quality. You might also change your camera angle. It may be that Poser's preview doesn't handle that well.

RedPhantom posted at 6:49 AM Thu, 7 November 2024 - #4491066

Did you check the resolution in the settings? Also, check the textures themselves as some of the textures I've used haven't been of a good quality. You might also change your camera angle. It may be that Poser's preview doesn't handle that well.

The problem is always that flat surfaces on ground. It's a like focus line just for flat objects but I can't find why poser do that all.

Have you tried adjusting the camera focus distance?

Or could it have something to do with depth of field?

Have you checked your render settings for preview, and tried adjusting the "Textue Display"  

Highlighted in the image below.  No idea if if will help or not, but can give it a try.

Have you checked your render settings for preview, and tried adjusting the "Textue Display"  

Highlighted in the image below.  No idea if if will help or not, but can give it a try.

Have you tried adjusting the camera focus distance?

Or could it have something to do with depth of field?

you will always get this blurry effect on floors when making preview renders, there is no way around and found on any Poser versions all the way up to the latest Poser 13.

you will always get this blurry effect on floors when making preview renders, there is no way around and found on any Poser versions all the way up to the latest Poser 13.

  

I fear to hear that.. but why?? Isn't there even a script ro bypass that?

I am not sure , It might have to do with the angle, you need a higher calculation for a floor ( Horizontal laying objects ) It is just a texture, at the same time it is influenced with your light setup. Try once in your home to change your angle on a table or a horizontal plane, it is consistent, If you focus what is close it will be sharp and get blurry into the far. If a glas stands there you will focus the glass but the edge close to you will be blurry.

I guess that the render needs more to calculate the Horizontal angle as the texture will distort in Plain view  it would have to render live just like in a game or Iray in DS but this will slow down your motion big time . Rendering a Preview will just be some sort of smoothed out screenshot not more . If you want it better and fast then just lower the FF render engine to a minimum ( Draft ) and render the Image  

The reason is simple.  Look at the circles that are close how many can you count? 3-4.  Now count the circles in the back how many do you see? 8-9.  Now the number of pixels in each of the scan lines is the same (we will say 1024 to keep it simple).  So, if the number of pixels in the circles up close are say 1024x1024 you can compress the images to say 1/3 for the three up front circles, but the ones in the back have to be compressed 1/9.  These are rough numbers and are only to make the point.   The fact is the more pixels that are required to be used for the image the more the compression will distort as more of the information is tossed out.  I run into this problem all the time at the college where the Art instructor sees an image on the computer monitor which is 1920x1080, but the projector can only display 1280x720.  So, where the instructor is seeing 9 pixels (3x3) the projector can only show 4 (2x2) which is over 1/2 the image being changed/thrown out.  Poser is doing the same thing.  Where you want 9216 pixels to be drawn there is only 1024 pixels of screen to draw those 9216 pixels on.  So, the image is compressed and that is why it looks blurry.

The reason is simple.  Look at the circles that are close how many can you count? 3-4.  Now count the circles in the back how many do you see? 8-9.  Now the number of pixels in each of the scan lines is the same (we will say 1024 to keep it simple).  So, if the number of pixels in the circles up close are say 1024x1024 you can compress the images to say 1/3 for the three up front circles, but the ones in the back have to be compressed 1/9.  These are rough numbers and are only to make the point.   The fact is the more pixels that are required to be used for the image the more the compression will distort as more of the information is tossed out.  I run into this problem all the time at the college where the Art instructor sees an image on the computer monitor which is 1920x1080, but the projector can only display 1280x720.  So, where the instructor is seeing 9 pixels (3x3) the projector can only show 4 (2x2) which is over 1/2 the image being changed/thrown out.  Poser is doing the same thing.  Where you want 9216 pixels to be drawn there is only 1024 pixels of screen to draw those 9216 pixels on.  So, the image is compressed and that is why it looks blurry.

I tried that with DM's PromptFantasy.

In my environment, a similar phenomenon occurs when I check "Enable OpenGL Mip Maps". The screenshots are from P13, but the behavior is the same on P11.

I think that is affected by anti-aliasing and denoising by the OpenGL library.

TLDR. Has anyone tried to render out a massively larger render? That might mitigate the perceived blurry far away objects.

Reduction in size in Photoshop would give you clearer reduced size render.

ghostship2 posted at 6:42 PM Sat, 9 November 2024 - #4491195

TLDR. Has anyone tried to render out a massively larger render? That might mitigate the perceived blurry far away objects.

Reduction in size in Photoshop would give you clearer reduced size render.

I figured out that it's not blur but lower the texture resolution when I use "Enable OpenGL Mid Maps". When I disable it, I don't get any blurring at all but it creates a bit noise mostly at more complex characters like humans. So it's not so usable as it is. I searched everywhere what are those OpenGL Mid Maps but I cannot find out anything in Poser at all. It only says, it makes the preview better. Yeah it does and it does not. 

Any one got any idea about that? what is OpenGL Mid Maps and what can I do about it?

As you see here, right side is OpenGL Mid Maps enabled and it kills the texture resolution and left side it's disabled and you can see all the texture clearly.

As I said it creates noise around complex characters so I need to find a middle way. Thx!

I tried that with DM's PromptFantasy.

In my environment, a similar phenomenon occurs when I check "Enable OpenGL Mip Maps". The screenshots are from P13, but the behavior is the same on P11.

I think that is affected by anti-aliasing and denoising by the OpenGL library.

This seems like a pretty good explanation of why mip maps are used: https://gdbooks.gitbooks.io/legacyopengl/content/Chapter7/Mip.html

It also becomes apparent why there is a line beyond which the texture would become blurry. Because you have gone past a certain distance from the camera and therefore transitioned to a different mip map.

Of course since it is meant to solve a problem with things in perspective, you might not want it if the things in your image are aligned that way.

This seems like a pretty good explanation of why mip maps are used: https://gdbooks.gitbooks.io/legacyopengl/content/Chapter7/Mip.html

It also becomes apparent why there is a line beyond which the texture would become blurry. Because you have gone past a certain distance from the camera and therefore transitioned to a different mip map.

Of course since it is meant to solve a problem with things in perspective, you might not want it if the things in your image are aligned that way.

Well since the article basically says the same thing I did if you want the Mips maps to be higher than you crank the Preview up to 4096 so that the next Mip map will be 2048 and the third 1024 and the fourth 512.  The Mip Maps are created on the fly by Poser and use the original texture map.  Of course, the Original Map will have to be at least 4096x4096 or it won't make any difference.   But you still run into the problem the further away the object is the less pixels it will have and the texture will still be compressed to fit.  But making the Mip Map very large it may push the point where the image starts to blur.  So that if an image was 1024 to start and it looks OK up close then if you use a 4096 image and it drops down to 2048 there will still be the compression line, however, it may not be as noticeable.

Richard60 posted at 9:51 AM Wed, 4 December 2024 - #4491899

Well since the article basically says the same thing I did if you want the Mips maps to be higher than you crank the Preview up to 4096 so that the next Mip map will be 2048 and the third 1024 and the fourth 512.  The Mip Maps are created on the fly by Poser and use the original texture map.  Of course, the Original Map will have to be at least 4096x4096 or it won't make any difference.   But you still run into the problem the further away the object is the less pixels it will have and the texture will still be compressed to fit.  But making the Mip Map very large it may push the point where the image starts to blur.  So that if an image was 1024 to start and it looks OK up close then if you use a 4096 image and it drops down to 2048 there will still be the compression line, however, it may not be as noticeable.

With the logic, I should have blurred textures way far but there is no difference at all even I change the resolution of texture or preview render. As I said this is result from 16k textures. 

If there is someone out there to code a script to fix this, I am ready to pay.

drages posted at 3:06 AM Wed, 4 December 2024 - #4491892

Wow, this is great source! Do you have any idea that I can change the distance for this behavior or any kind of stats? I am searching that where is the mip map poser uses? 

I played around with it a bit. Thinking maybe the textures needed to be reloaded to update to 16K or something, but same result as you.

What is the reason you don't want to just turn off mip maps entirely? Since we know that is the cause. For the scene shown above, I don't think the texel swimming effect is likely to be relevant. In principle you could cheat and fake the benefit of mip maps by using lower resolution textures for objects that are far away (as long as they aren't moving from close to far in the same animation).

ChromeStar posted at 5:18 PM Tue, 10 December 2024 - #4492054

drages posted at 3:06 AM Wed, 4 December 2024 - #4491892

Wow, this is great source! Do you have any idea that I can change the distance for this behavior or any kind of stats? I am searching that where is the mip map poser uses? 

What I know is just how to Google well. :)

I played around with it a bit. Thinking maybe the textures needed to be reloaded to update to 16K or something, but same result as you.

What is the reason you don't want to just turn off mip maps entirely? Since we know that is the cause. For the scene shown above, I don't think the texel swimming effect is likely to be relevant. In principle you could cheat and fake the benefit of mip maps by using lower resolution textures for objects that are far away (as long as they aren't moving from close to far in the same animation).

My reason is, as I said before, if you use more detailed models, like humans, you get bad results at detailed parts like face. The transparent parts like hair goes very bad too. 

The blur effect works, I am happy with it. I just don't want to have it so aggressively at some distance or angles. With the logic we have, as you tested too, 16k textures should work but somehow poser ignores the resolutions of the textures.