Thank YOU for the slap during my short absence! Especially only after a couple of days that you told me in public how welcome my posts are around this forum.. It's just so sad to find out that Renderosity is adopting & reminishing the Willow days... :o( Autarchy, back and forth talk, just cleaning up the wheat from its hard cover.. and old members are just that I guess.. a hard cover that needs to be broken, squeezed, demolished and discarded, God knows for which utter plan a mind has concieved, especially after all the trouble and debates administration went through to make this place the most commercial oriented in Poser Land! :o( You didn't listen to us back then, why should you listen now? But I refuse to allow you to put a "merchant" tag on me as well, as I'm no sort of a cattle! :o( You got in the trouble to put us on a vote whether we should rename a product or not, but we have NO word on deciding where we should post.. even if we are avoiding links! This back and forth policy just reminds me of a cat chasing its tail! People tend soo easily to forget the past, subside and put in ghettos those we stood by them when things were hard.. Let's face it, others may not dare say so but I will- it's the best & oldest who've survived successfully in becoming merchants around this place since Jack Krammer brought the plague of commercialism over us (also WITHOUT asking but with YOUR full blessings)! It's also those whom you are disregarding and bypassing as non welcome here anymore that have kept the Poser forum alive and made Renderosity what it is today! Why do I get the feeling that this dog bites the hands that fed him for so long? Why do I get the feeling that this recent TOS update was cut and tailored specifically for PWFW? Am I too suspicious or paranoid? Well.. maybe! I'm sorry guys, but what I do is about Poser.. not a store or any merchant or commercial thingie! If you want to add a price tag on it, be my guest.. a dime for an item with texture pak included, some times ON SALE too.. just for a few pennies! What a merchant INDEED!!!! How dared we to turn subscription to cover our bandwidth cost.. guilty indeed! It was all available for free and it would have stayed so up to now if our bandwith hadn't been constantly abused so badly, but you're too well aware of that so what's the point? You still put a tag on us! You consider subscription sites commercial BUT.. you forgto that I've NEVER considered myself a merchant.. I was forced to follow the flow in order to survive and have a place to put up my work - as YOU were the ones who set the new guidlines but seem to conveniently forget - not myself.. however, don't you ever dare to call me a "merchant"! Bottom line, since I'm no longer allowed to post where I belong - among the people I know and got to know over the past years, but just have to be ostrasized as a parasite at some other forum that means absolutely NOTHING to me... goodbye and goodluck as you won't hear from me again - since obviously this is what you had in mind once composing that! How many subs site are we are all around really? Five, ten? How many merchants? around 500 I think! Gee.. we subs DO take lots of precious space in this forum indeed! VL grin Don't worry, you can ban me freely for my big mouth if you wish as I'll do you the favour to take down the PWFW store items too..Where I'm not welcome, none of my work is either! As we say in Greece - once you get the feeling that what you say goes in one ear and out the other (and I'm almost certain THIS is the case here, so I'm just wasting my breath) it's time to move on... Those who care to keep updated on my work know where to find me.. but definately NOT in that competition oriented lions arena you've created and taged it "Merchants Forum"! Rena

Please don't go! I consider you a friend, not a merchant-- but that's not too different how I feel about most of the people I've bought something or other from around here. Emily

They're forgetting how they got where they are...and how easy it is to be forgotten g

Grrr... and I had that adventurer's texture pack on my wishlist... oh well, guess I'll never get it now. :(

Hi Rena I'm not a merchant (yet), and I'm not a member of admin or a mod either, so this is just one person's opinion.... The Net is changing. Free access, free bandwidth, and to a large extent, free content are vanishing. This is very regrettable, but I'm not sure anyone at R'osity can do very much about it. It seems to me that sites have two choices - embrace the plague of commercialism, and at least try to make it as fair as possible - or get squashed. R'osity is a lot more than just the Poser Forum now. I think that's its strength If it has to balance out the good stuff with some commercial activity - well; 'the labourer is worthy of his hire' as the good book says. I would rather have that, than see my favourite resource and meeting place destroyed. I'm obviously not privvy to some of the stuff you mention, but I think it would be a shame if you left on account of something that seems inevitable. Having a Product Showcase Forum for saleable items actually helps keep the spirit of the Poser Forum non commercial, while allowing the needed money making to go on. I think it a fair and reasonable compromise with an unfortunate reality. I'm sure it was not aimed at you personally. Please reconsider your position - or at least take a day or two to think it over regards peejay

I wish you the best renapd! I myself am going to try and fight this one. Already I had a few questions but I have decided the questions are not worth asking. If I want to post a link I will, due to the fact that it will be the answer to what someone has asked of me. Who knows, perhaps I may be forced out for this eventually. If that is the case, I will definatly need a new home.

peejay, this goes much further then that. I agree the Showcase forum is for true advertisements of products. But now lets say someone in the poser forum asks where to find a particular item. You are no longer allowed to tell them. Let's say someone is looking for a particular tutorial. You can't tell them where that tutorial is if the author has it on a subscription site. The answer to both of these questions eventually will become, "I know where but I can't tell you." Now if anyone here tries to build thier own business it seems that they will no longer be welcome to say anything. This will only serve to keep people shackled to this site as no new ones will be allowed to state that they exist if they are comercial sites. Oh and all the admins need to be banned for promoting outside comercial links. Take a look at the webring top 15 some of those are commercial sites and they draw traffic INTO renderosity. If this idea of no longer allowing links continues then not only will people have to go elsewhere to find the resources they need, but sites will no longer be willing to link back to here. It only serves to hurt everyone.

Rena. I've already talked to Steve about This. I'm sorry it played out this way. ScottA

Thanks for explaining that, but I still think folk have got the wrong end of the stick here. Please correct me if I have misunderstood this, but doesn't the new TOS say that you cannot post a LINK in the forum? It does not say that you cannot say; it's on so-and-so's site over at such-and-such a place, as long as the LINK is not used. I saw this as being to do with the mechanics of who pays who for what when sites are accessed - plus the problem of course of hitting a brick wall if you post a link to a subscription site when people following it aren't subscribers. as for not being able to find stuff - well if you know the name of the site then Google will take about half a second to give you the URL so is it really that much of a problem? Like I said, please do correct me if this is not the case... and does anyone from admin want to pitch in?

I just read the TOS, it didn't say anything about linking to merchant sites, just adult sites. Or am I under different TOS because I'm Not A Merchant? Emily

Where can the TOS be found? Can someone post a link to it so we can read it? Melanie

"Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships." (Quoted from the Renderosity TOS) This mean anything anymore, or should there be an addendum that reads: "as long as it doesn't promote someone else's commercial website (based on our assesment), or otherwise interfere with our own commercial efforts." I originally came to Renderosity as a Poser 'hobbyist'...I toyed with it now and then, ever since Poser 2 (Still have my original CD). Since then, Poser and related have become a very big part of my life. I'm going to be doing my first commercial exhibition at GenCon this year. Granted, it's only a few pieces...but it's certainly more than I ever expected. Along the way I've made a lot of what I consider friends...Xena, Sturkwurk, Richabri, Rena, Valandar, Jeweldragon, Bloodsong, KattMan, Audre...and that's hardly the full list. I don't care if they're selling items or not...they've helped me develop as an artist. I like giving that back...and if that means I post a link to a site that sells things R'osity doesn't, or if I recommend a subscription site, then so what? I'm helping someone else develop as an artist...same as was done for me. My own 'commercial' site is already in the works. Why? Because I've evolved to that point, and it's time for me to do so. But damned if I'm going to stop folks from directing others to stuff I can't or don't provide...because they'll come back for what I DO offer. Just my two cents... ChromeTiger

Oh, and Rena, please don't leave us. You're one of our most valued members here. I'd hate to see you drop out of sight. You'd be missed way too badly. Melanie

peejay, What is the difference between saying go to posercity.com and simply adding the www to it and making it a link? The problem here is that once they pull links, just typeing posercity.com is going to get people to say I posted a link and next thing you know I won't even be able to mention the site like that.

But I think most people would have gotten that notion by now. Here's what I know. These things all improved and were diversified because of interaction between customers and merchants: the packages from PWFW's last upload, and heck the one before that; several of spectre3's packages' both of PhilC's Romantics-- [part of those had to be sequestered in the Product Forum, where I hang out, but not too many other people do, or at least they don't post] This means, we got more stuff, to buy or not, and we got to express feedback on what we wanted and needed. Not only that, talking to designers when they are coming up with a product lowers the barrier between us and them. I do consider the people I buy from friends, and if I don't, I dont' buy anymore. I've said before that Renderosity is different than other commercial environments because of it's friendly co-operative nature. I would Hate to see that change. It makes no sense, either from a point of view of communication in open forum, or commercial sense. Neither of us on either side of the money barrier are gonna get what we want-- in terms of civility and interchange of ideas. I suppose this all came up because of some complaints about advertising in this forum. Wouldn't a simple addendum to the subject-- ADVERT-- be easier? Emily aka queri

Oh dear, this just seems to be my day for chiming in on controversy. Rena, you do what you have to do, girl, I know where to find you and I know how to send other folks your way. Now, for the rest of you. Rena and Steve have been here since day one. They provided a wealth of items for free for absolutely YEARS until their bandwidth costs became so great that they actually had to close down their sites. Well, such an uproar over that let me tell you. Every other post, it seems, was someone begging them to find another way. Gods forbid we should lose our single largest supply of freestuff other than Renderosity. So, they considered their options and they went the subscription route. Are they making money hand over fist? I sincerely doubt it. Are they in competition with Renderosity? Not on your life. As for posting a link to the subscription site, well, guess what, part of the TOS for PWFW FORBIDS its members from giving out the URL for the subscription area. Members of PWFW are required to direct people to the FREE site, where they can either download the free items of the week/month OR they can choose to buy a subscription. I'm telling you here and now, if Rena and Steve leave over this we will be losing possibly one of the top three greatest resources available to Poser. And I, for one, will miss those wonderful SITE UPDATE announcements Rena posts here among the usual drek of the Poser forum. Every time I see one of Rena's posts it's a rare treat, and to think it will be going away because they were forced to go "commercial" in order to continue to provide our greedy selves with the high quality items we took so much for granted, well, it breaks my heart, that's what it does, and it makes me wonder if there really IS any hope for this so-called community. Kate (becoming more disillusioned by the second lately)

You know, I started to write my comment above in Poser Forum and by the time I posted it, it had been moved to wherever the H this is. I know it is hard to communicate reason and civility in mere words without tone to back it up-- but in all honesty-- one cannot hide from open problems and you cannot shuffle them around to forums some people don't even know exist and hope they will go away. I have liked and respected the mods around here. At this particular moment, my feelings are very mixed. Emily Garlick

Will the person who wrote the new TOS please stand up and admit to it?

Rena's Site Update posts to the Poser Forum are one of the few things I take time to stop and read no matter how busy I am. They are always the very highlight of my day, sometimes my week. Rena and I go way way back, began as enemies, and wound up as busom buddies who share everything. Ironically, it was the store itself and early battles over whether it should exist that almost made us enemies forever. Had that happened, I would have unbeknownst to me lost one of my dearest and closest friends, a woman who is like my own sister. That she and Steve had to go to subscription to be able to go on hosting their huge library of wonderful things for all does not in any way make them a profit making or money making organization, since the subscriptions hardly cover the bandwidth, let alone Rena's and Steves wonderful god given talent. Without Rena and Steve, this community would not be where it is today, and if they go it will be the poorer for the loss.

{{{{But now lets say someone in the poser forum asks where to find a particular item. You are no longer allowed to tell them....Let's say someone is looking for a particular tutorial. You can't tell them where that tutorial is if the author has it on a subscription site...The answer to both of these questions eventually will become, "I know where but I can't tell you."}}}} Harumph, got so upset and excited over Rena's devastating news that I forgot half of what I wanted to say. There is not now, and never will be a restriction on where to post your advertising renders, your WIP renders, links to other sites, links to offsite tutorials, off topic posts, debate and duke it out posts, and even complaint posts about the administration on any site, even ours, without you or anyone else disappearing, etc, over on www.poserpros.com If you need free training in a friendly stress free environment, taught by the best of the best, such as Vairesh, Xurge, Jaager, Jim Burton, Xena, Helen, Thorne, FaerieGurl, KateTheShrew, PJF, Doc Legume, Alla, Dark_Whisper, Dolly, Laurie_S, Pendarian, Jen, LisaB, Cin- and of course rcook and myself, then PoserPros is for you! :)

I think I stopped by there recently, I just spend so much time here that, well you know... Might change in the near future though. Not saying I'm leaving, just might be a little less accessable here.

sigh The admin really want to lose what this site USED to be good for.

I find this simply amazing! Who's big idea was this now? Not only two days ago ScottA stated tha PWFW updates were welcome in the Poser Forum. sigh I really think you're going to regret this one. :(

Well, if they keep it up, we've got other places to go. Maybe it's starting to sink in and they're getting nervous. Should have been nicer to people while they were here. And they still haven't learned.

"Not only two days ago ScottA stated tha PWFW updates were welcome in the Poser Forum."

Updates are fine, but overt commercial advertising is not.

The policy hasn't really changed, these type of posts have been moved from the start.

There was alot of confusion this time around and the words "subscription pages" were added to clear it up for the moderators who have to enforce the policy.

This post was obviously a commerical advertisement for the subscription area and complaints came in.

In fairness to Rena, Steve and ScottA the post was allowed to stay. Future ones like it will be moved under this policy.

-JeffH.

I'm curious. I don't post in the poser forum much, because I haven't even worked ny way up to newbie with poser yet, lol. But I hear people either complaining that there are too many ads in the Poser forum, how can anyone learn. I also hear people complaining that it is an infringement to their liberties to have any sort of post restricted, especially to the Merchant's Forum. (Which for some reason seems to be equated with evil, or at least capitalism.) How do you make everyone happy in asituation like this? All the people- the ones who want to post helpful links, the ones who want to just learn, the merchants- everyone? If someone suddenly told you "okay, it's your call" what would you do?

Michele, personally I think the whiners need to find something better to whine about. Don't like a thread, don't read it. Is it that hard NOT to click on a thread link? I hate having to read 6 forums for what used to be on one. OTOH, nevermind, I'm gonna go where posts don't disappear on me all the time.

Attached Link: http://www.poserpros.com

Hrm. Interesting. Paul Have you gratuitously plugged your site, today?

Ok, so that means we can't post links to DAZ or Curiouslabs either...maybe they ought to know. And also, the links to their sites should come down, they are after all, overt advertising, and a rule is a rule.

WRONG movida... Links to DAZ, RuntimeDNA and other places that sell items ONE by one & heavy commercial ARE allowed!!! At least those charge an item of what it would sell to the store too.. they don't offer bargains! That's what's pissed me off! Having the subs that offer so much more at more reasonable prices shoveled into that forum that honestly I don't see what's its meaning for! If someone wanted to read about new products and all about them.. the store pages are more than plenty and give out the FULL info! I think it has to do with exactly the opposite of what the administration claims.. it has to do with the store sales and any kind of competition that doesn't serve that! Just pamper the ones we have profit from.. put the rest in a ghetto where none will bother to read! Why I believe that? Simple! 500 merchants with the majority of them putting up the store at least ONE new product a week, leads us close to 500 new posts in the Merchants Forum.. now just tell me, who would be stupid enough to watch 500 commercials on TV waiting for the one he is looking after to come up in the lot... and just don't go over to the store itself, contact a search and find it! Well??? To me it's pretty clear, they want to orient the users further more towards visiting the store.. everything else is just excuses, bubble talk and more excuses! Poser Forum is what made this place what it is! Splitting it up in so many departments that none knows anymore what goes on.. it's nothing else but a well methodized brain wash and manipulation to me! Otherwise, all posts concerning poser - commercial or none - should stay put in one place and database if they DO care truly about having a valuable resourse! It only takes a choice of what headline to click or not to.. at least that's what I do myself and I'm not a genious! As to the complains..I'd really love to see the "long" list of complainers posted publicly ANYPLACE! That would be fun indeed! Wouldn't the rest of you want to see those too guys? They should be thousands to force the Administration change it's policy overnight! VL grin And yes, I'd love to know as well - if he/she has the gutts to step forward - WHO has decided the extra line addition to the TOS.. that would be further interesting to know who plays it a friend and stubs you in the hack! VL grin And this post having been moved to the TEAM & NEWS forum... LOL What a TEAM indeed and it's a piece of news guys that I don't sell myself out or give up when I know I'm right! Read all about it! VL grin What happened to the good old Complaint and Debate Forum? It got shoveled too as it served nothing for you anymore though plenty to all the rest of us who used to hang around there... and you expect me to shut up? Well.. there's only one way guys to get rid of me for good and make me stop saying things as they really are! I think you know it.. Keep on hinding Renderosity behind your little finger.. .it WORKS! VL grin Rena PS: To melanie and the rest.. I*'m not living poser.. I'm just not setting foot to the poser forum again till this gets resolved fair and sqare OR they ban me... choice is theirs but I want it IN PUBLIC.. not through personal emails!

I was one of the people, who argued for the Product Showcase forum. I use it quite much to form an opinion of new products. I thought and still think, it is a good idea to have a forum for merchants to advertise their products in detail and maintain customer relationship.

What i didn't envisage was that instead of more choices we now have a ghettoisation of vendors.
Rena's subscription posts are advertising for a subscription site. They are also posts of someone who takes pride in his works and wants to show them off, independent of the monetary angle.
If such things aren't allowed in the Poser forum, it is a loss for this forum.

BTW I really hate it if posts are moved without notice. It makes me a all queasy and paranoid. :P

There has never been a post by us "advertising" all posts have been a simple PWFW has been updated statement so using the advertisment angle falls on dead ground, post showing are work at worst have the statement "to be included on the next update" and some have nothing so from that i think this is as Rena says just a push out the competion ploy...Which brings me to my next point it was stated that outside vendors where welcome to show there works here so if you now decided that this wasn't a good idea then why the hell didn't you get intouch with us so we could work something out together instead of a sly push in the back....We work with other folks to try and bring sites together and help our members and help the folks we work with, if i sound vague its coz i'm avoiding names as this isn't anyone elses problem but PWFW and R ....Then theres the issue of the product showcase forum too, i was never happy with us being shoved over there, it was to me a "you've served your purpose now go away approach" anyone complaining could have been simply told that the store was what paid for the site to stay up....I've said in a few posts where folks don't agree with the site policy that its there site and we must do as they wish, but maybe this is no longer 100% true seeing the vendors pay for the upkeep (i know i know its the customers, but no vendors = no customers) so maybe its time they listened to the vendors..But what REALLY pissed me off, and i hate to drag this all up again but when we had this row at the PFO (we obeyed there posting rules to the letter but the last one was removed for being commercial) but it turns out the real reason they gave was coz we had put a support item in the renderosity store.....And NOW renderosity do the same thing...kinda ironic i guess .......Steve

I tend to agree completely with Kate, and won't bother posting much more as I'll just repeat what she says. One day people will learn, unfortunately it seems that lessons are not learned until it's too damned late to do anything about it. Centrism in itself isn't a bad thing, but when it's a blatant and rather stupid attempt at monopolisation it becomes harmfull to itself and to people associated with it. The banning of links to commercial sites and subscription sites is patently ridiculous. If people can't find what they want they'll go elsewhere where they can find these things. Is Renderosity really meaning to kill itself? One can't help but wonder if Mickey Mouse is making policy here these days. Or maybe it's one of the other cartoon critters, Goofy, Wille Coyote or Elmer Fudd. One of them has to be responsible because this is getting ridiculous to the point of laughable. TOS provided by ACME Corporation...

Guys, they don't care if we post or don't post. Not posting isn't a boycott. We'll still be here (hits) and buy from the marketplace (money). Those are critical areas. Not posting will serve them also...less use of bandwidth. The banning of links to commercial/subscription sites may be illegal (FTC) but it'd take a court case to prove it. Bondware is in (I think) Tennessee or somewhere southeast...my point being it's still in the USofA. And although the business is conducted online...it's conducted through telephone lines (or cable or satellite or whatever). In any case, some part of the system is land based. It sure would be fun to watch lmao

"Will the person who wrote the new TOS please stand up and admit to it? " It was a group effort. We all managed to get together and fuck it up collectively. ;] At least on the origional redesign a ways back, not completely sure on this latest one - my attentions been elsewhere. I'm with Kate and Questor - do what you need to do, Rena. To my mind, I think they have the right interpretation - it's an atempt at policy that's only benefit seems to be in losing us more and more resources, and more and more older members that the community needs to keep, not alienate. I have to ask... just when did the vendors and the people who manage other site, even commercial or subscription sites become the enemy here? I always thought we were members first, vendors and site owners second. Guess the world changed when I wasn't looking.

OK, the way I see it is this: The difference between a "Commercial" site and a "Subscription" site is that with a "Commercial" site, the money goes into the owner's pocket. They make a profit. They do it to earn money. With a "Subscription" site, no one profits. Money doesn't go into anyone's pocket. No one makes money from it. It's all funneled into supporting the servers in order to host the site. So, folks, let's get this straight: Subscription sites are NOT commerical. They should not be considered commercial in any way. No one is getting anything out of it except the people who come to get the items that area offered. It just amazes me that every Poser and 3D site I've been a member of has sooner or later gone this way. It's always just a matter of time before the admins and moderators become control freaks. That's what happened with the original PFO. That was a sad loss, all because of the controlling nature of the folks who ran it. They stuck their heads in the noose and pulled it too tight, strangling themselves in the process. That's what will happen here if they aren't careful. I can only hope that Rena and Steve will still post their updates in the Poser Forum. That's where it belongs, for crying out loud, it's all Poser related stuff. If you can't display Poser things in the Poser Forum, then there's definitely something wrong here. Just my little rant. I'll sit back and be quiet now. Melanie

ROTFLMAO It was a group effort. We all managed to get together and fuck it up collectively And what people don't realise is how very close to the truth that is. I know, I've seen it in action first hand. (wanders off to try to recover and get some breath back) Damn you 'bear, I'm supposed to be taking it easy. Melanie - Very well said. Round of applause for that lady. :)

Well???? Isn't that how committees do things, Quest? innocent look

sigh Rena, FYI - You guys are appreciated... :) Jackie -Goes HOME to 3DC-

Well, Renderosity magazine is bringing in newbies by the drove I suspect. Don't want THEM to know there are other places. Also, the freebie Poser3 (or whatever on the magazine CD) same deal. The corporate mindset reveals itself yet again...the marketing guy must have gone to the school of "*uck 'em and feed 'em beans"

Yes.. that's how committees do things Ironbear! Too darn right! VL grin But the "latest" TOS update is not the hand of a committee, I'm afraid! It's the hand of some personal enemy who got paniced by the latest huge PWFW update.. as the e TOS was revised the very next day to the convient additon of three words "..including subscriptions sites"! Not to mention that someone spread this hint of inappropriate forum posting right within that same post... sounds not so innocent to me more and more! So I think I have the full right to know WHO he/she is who composed that extra line and on what reasoning grounds with the facts of the number of Poser subscriptions sites in existance at the moment ... don't you want to find out too? Not enough gutts to step forward and say YES..I am the one who didi this! ?? I'm sure he/she has been notified how the convenient change hasn't passed by so inocently as hoping once composed! It's indeed outrageous and silly that warm headed one considered suddenly that PWFW is a threat and competition somehow.. and exciled along with us the Poserstyle new fine site, Katharina's even older than ours one and so many more who've showed excellent work and have so much to offer in this community! Even myself I've spent all I've earned in the store with in store credit for god's sake.. and most of our members spend bundles in there too! Don't they realize that Poser is a collective addiction? So what the hell did he/she got scared of ? The more you know it's available the more you want to own even if you never end up using it.. now tell me I'm just not right on thatm but.. AFTER you've taken a good look at your Poser installment on your HD! Anybody! It's a HOBBY most of all.. when will they see that? That person obviously doesn't, as all he/she can see is dollar signs in his/her eyes! And I consider this pathetic!@:o( I DON"T like stubbing at my back by strangers, I don't like being hurt by people I've never wished bad for, I hate to have to talk to someone using both adjectives he and she... so let's stop forward and talk face to face... is this so much I ask for? If so easy to take decisions that alter people's habits and vanish their work previews and members rights.. should at least be able to debate in public instead of hiding behind the "administration" general description! You know.. I could play the game same as you.. I could just go ahead and post without a PWFW subs logo, and instead of mentioning to be included in the next update as usual... start saying.. "where you can find it? I'm sorry but can't tell you.. Recent TOS update forbids me to.. but I'm sure you can figure it out! " I wonder what you'd do then.. move that away of the forum as well? Start playing the cat and mouse game? What? I'm just fed up, disgusted and outrageous by the fact of being treated differently than others, simply because I work so hard and ask back for so little.. so until this gets PUBLICLY clarified even in here - at the God forgotten forum that you chose to shovel my post under the rug... hide a problem.. and it doesn't exist, right? Is that your new policy? I won't play it nasty though & will be patient for a while to hear back from you.. BUT.. to me it IS considered a declaration of WAR and I don't hide my feelings about it.. because you have offended me personally with alter motivation in mind with an overnight plot cut and tailored for our subs site and that.. I DON"T forgive that easily I'm afraid! :o( As neither would any of you either! Rena

Oh hell, Rena. I don't have to look at my runtime folder. I'll never be able to afford all the stuff I want. I've been saving pennies trying to get far enough ahead for a poserworld subscription. No dice so far.

I DON"T forgive that easily I'm afraid! :o( As neither would any of you either! Very true Rena, and something that certain people seem to be forgetting. Memories are long in this place, because there are old members who remember previous days. Apparently not the PTB though who seem bent on centrism, limitation and self destruction. Good luck to them, I hope they enjoy the grave they're digging for themselves. I just hope for the sake of the members here that someone with a little more interpersonnel skill and public savvy gets in charge before it's too late or there will be another Poser resource left to drown in it's own bile and control freakery.

Is Renderosity a product in and of itself? No. It's a compilation of artists who place their work in the marketplace, freestuff download section, gallery, forums, tutorial section, etc.

To restrict links to OTHER (that's a key word, please make note of it) 3D sites that do the same thing and Renderosity will look very foolish.

We don't restrict anyone from posting in the Showcase forum and gallery. ALL commercial posts must go there, even Renderosity MarketPlace.

"There has never been a post by us "advertising" all posts have been a simple PWFW has been updated statement so using the advertisment angle falls on dead ground..."

Really? Compare the two:

An acceptable post from PoserWorld.

A commercial post from PoserWorld.

I can clearly see the difference.

-Jeff

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.. I dislike having to go look at the showcase forum. I really liked seeing what was coming up right there in the poser forum. Besides which, you didn't catch the multitude of WIPs that at least one posted in there (the poser forum) that really you could have swept under a rug somewhere. Instead of messing with all of us in our favorite spots, you could do a bit to help the marketplace be a bit more friendly to customers. Like a decent search engine and more categories so that we don't have to wade through a multitude of stuff we aren't interested in. I for one, don't want to be there all day. You keep on pushing vendors away like this, you will end up with no-one in the MP anyhows. Also, I have seen at least a half dozen mods leave in just a few months and they all seem to be shaking their heads and wiping their brows as they go out the door. I think you need to direct some attention to what is making this happen as well. I think it about time you (the Renderosity Admins) sit back and think about where these policies are taking us. Before the masses leave and stick you with just yourselves to look at.

"more categories"

What would you suggest?

-JH.

The only difference I see there is that one points to the free area and one to the subscription area. I only half heartedly agree with this catagorization. Once again I bring up the fact that if there is something behind a subscription site that someone asks about I am no longer going to be able to tell them where it is because they will have to pay to get it. This comes down to simply saying "If it isn't free we don't want it posted here in the common forums. Unless of course it is one of our approved sites." The approved sites being UVMApper, Soft-rabbit and Daz currently. This is extremly strange on how this choice was made. Is it only the big guys? No, UVMapper isn't a big player. Is it only the little guys? No, Daz is a very large company. Is it just those that won't compete in products? No, Daz offers products that would compete with anything here. Is it only those sites that someone has some form of tie to or doesn't want to piss off? This is the only one I can't say no to. PWFW falls inside the allowable sites based off of that list with the exception of the last question. So I want to ask, who made this list of allowable sites and what were the criteria?

JeffH, As for other catagories, this is being discussed in the Merchants forum at http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12389&Form.ShowMessage=673331 It started out as a complaint on an issue I was actually in a misunderstanding over. It has since become a recomendation area and small brainstorming session with clint involved on a new suggestion for the store layout. It is far from perfect, but that's what brainstorming is for. In the end it will only be a suggestion with no idea if the ideas we come up with are really even possible.