This is a WIP, but theres something about it I dont like I just cant put my finger on it. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

heyas; their skin textures look somewhat flat and un-detailed compared to the rest of the scene. he, in particular, looks very 'poser flat skin tone orange.' they are not looking at each other very well; there doesn't seem to be any connection between them. emotionally, i mean.

The wings look great, but they look somewhat to human, maybe a little more transparent would help, but what a nice concept in this picture, she has fallen, and he will aid her...nice...Sharen

title - hmmmm - how about "Compassion"

For what it's worth: The right red wing seems to be coming out of his head. The shadows somehow interfere. More dramatic whith a different key light position maybe? Different focal lenght to seperate the figures from the background perhaps. The look on her face is great. The red wings are simply champions-Stanly cup go to them- He looks a bit stiff (no pun, this time). Get ridd of the horizontal shadow on the white wing at right. Nice reflection on her hair. And an incredibly great expression on her face. This is good stuff. Qeep at it, Cimerone. Q

Hi His right hand looks wrong to me perhaps if his fore-finger was more visble to me it looks from this angle as if it's actually in her arm. Other wise I love the pic Dave

Oh dear, by the time we've all chipped in, it's going to sound as if there's nothing right about it at all! You are very brave to expose yourself like this. One thing to think about might be the POV. You have used a piece of 3d software to produce an side view of two characters against a flat wall - not a very 3d result. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with that if that's what you intended. How about using a little more depth? Both these beings can (or could) fly. Could you get more drama into the picture if the man were reaching down to the girl, or she were reaching up to him, and you saw the image from either above or below, accentuating the depth - maybe using a slightly wide angle effect to pull it out evem more. That would then bring out what you've already done very nicely, and that's have the light coming from his part of the pic into her darkness. If you wanted a more static pose, focussing on the compassion rather than the drama - how about making her blind? It's a little cliched maybe, but it would accentuate her helplessnes. Also perhaps have him hold her fingers, not her arm - somehow would seem a little mor esensitive. All of the above just opinions regards peejay

his facial hair seems a little unusual without any hair on his head. its almost a seam. id blur the tops a bit. His right ankle is quite distorted, no human being bends that way. As already stated, the lighting just doesnt look right. You cant even tell where its coming from, it just seems to be all over the place. I think his wings should have a bit more arch to them too. Again, bones just dont bend that way. It looks ike her arm is disappearing into his hand instead of him holding it. The chain in the middle should prolly have another link on the top so it doesnt look like its painted into the wall. her forearms a litte thick compared to her upper arms. sorry to be so critical, im not trying to destroy it, its a great start.

No offense, but at first, I thought the red wing was a huge hairpiece coming out of his head. Like a Genie ponytail or something. Change the angle a bit to separate it from his head. Maybe he needs some hair. The theme of the image, the story, is interesting. I think it will be a good picture when it's finished. Keep working, it's a good start. Melanie

Wow..I went to the movies and when I get back I have input galore! Thank you Thank you Thank you!! lol That is sincere by the way. As for the wing, actualy I checked it at different angles and it's not but i can now see how it would look that way. As for hair, haven't gotten that far. As for his bending...well I am fairly new to poser (well not that new but still new enough to be a newbie I think) and his pose is hte first one I have done from scratch. I have never actually made someone bend and kneel before. I just couldn't find any good Michael poses. What I actually wanted to do was have him holding her hand with one hand and with the other on her cheek. That sounds easier for me than it is. lol BUT I am NOT giving up yet. Since that was what was in my head that's what I would like to actually accomplish. PeeJay I agree with your POV suggestions...I just have a few issues and questions. First my issue...I am a bit Obsessive Compulsive in the sense that I always seem to NEED the WHOLE scene in view. If somethings cut off I tend to get jittery. lol No idea why. But I am willing to try it...now changing the POV would require using different cameras right? Sorry liek I said new to this. I get the idea of changing cameras and recently even discovered focal length's...I was so proud. lol As for lighting ask anyone that knows me, I am terrible at it so thats still a HUGE WIP. Eventually they will be looking at each other once I get the poses done properly. And I have a big lack of Michael Textures in my collection, but I agree he's a bit orangey. Anyone know of some less orangey preferable free ones? I have reached my Poser spending limit for like the next 12 years. (That's the responsible me talking, we all know that if i find one i gotta have I will just buy it!!) lol So thanks SOOO much for the suggestions and hopfully later on tonight I can post an updated one with all your wonderful suggestions and minor fix ups :).

OMG, please excuse all my typos, I wasn't paying attention! Sorry all.

Cimerone: There are a lot of good lighting tutorials around here. I recommend them. As a rule, in photography (30 years or more),one finds the point of focus. The point that you want your viewer to notice and be transfixed by. Put your lights on that point. And only when you get it to look the way you want then build and balance the lighting around that point. EX: You want her face to be the focal point (I'm crazy about her expression, you know that). Light the face first, get it the way you want it, then add another light at an angle just to key in on the eyes and bring them out. You can then add lighting to the rest of the scene, balancing it so that you keep the effect you wanted on the face. That means that you may have to re-adjust the facial and key lighting everytime you add a new light. With experience it becomes second nature, people won't invite you to their homes anymore 'cause you keep rearanging their lamps and stuff. The last test is the render. What you see sometimes isn't what you get. You may have to adjust the lighting after a test render to get the look you want. Poser should be called Patience! but it's worth it in the end. I hope I get to see your finished product. Ergards, Q

Well still far from done BUT I think a bit better. You guys are extremely helpful...thank you so much.

Yes, it is very nice...Sharen

Hey PROGRESS!!! Looking good! Q

big improvement. now a new slew of suggestions. The best choice for textures is to make your on! i know thats prolly not much help, but you can make better textures on your own than your likely to find in the free sections , all you need is photoshop and some good tutorials. of course, if you dont have photoshop, im sure thats easier said than done. Id be glad to make some textures for you for free however, if you tell me what you would like, because im interested in seeing what this looks like when its done. another few little knitpicks - the pose is better pov wise now, but look where his hand is touching her cheek, you can see her hair going through his hand. Theres a big red hair piece where his palm should be. the same with his wing, its going through hers. id moved his wing further away from the camera and her wing back away from his head so you can see the end of it. a much better job on the other hands though, but it still looks like her fingers would be slicing into his palm. I'd move his wing back and arch it more so it doesnt appear like its hanging limply into the groud too. otherwise, a large improvement overall.

I have made several female textures darkpheonix, but I have never made a male texture. And at 3am it sounded way to monumentous for me to tackle. lol I imagine since you don't have to see his chest in this image I could forego trying to paint body hair...it's certainly worth a try. And now that you mention it I do see the hair going through his hand. DABNABIT!! lol Of course I am more annoyed that I dont have time to fix it RIGHT NOW, as I am late for a birthday party for my mother!! Addicted, BAH! lol I also wanted to point out my own error I noticed and fixed in another image that I havent posted yet, the back wing of his seems to go through hers, I fixed that. Later on tonight I will post some changes. Thank you everyone for you help. You are really amazing!! :)

Ok this is the wings not intercepting each other and a different color hair and I think her face is lighted a bit better. I still have to fix their hands and his hand and her hair. I am not sure i like his hair. Again thanks for your help. This is a special image and I want it to be perfect.

Wow! Look at the detail in the wings near her right side. That's what you're looking for. Good work. The wing still seems to come out of his head, the red in her hair is perhaps too close to the wing color. Question: Am I right or are you using mostly infinite lighting? You should perhaps think of replacing some of them (read all of them IMO) with spots. Experiment with them. Add color perhaps, change the fall-offs, try using black lights. Have fun with it. Ya! I'm a complainer, aren't I? ... Stay well... Q

Not a complainer quixote, a perfectionist as am i, and thats good for me!! :) Thanks all I will be working on it tonight too. So hopefully I will get it right!! lol

notice her left foot, the way it seems to smoooosh into the ground.

Ok I have played with the POV and the lighting. Course I haven't fixed her foot either!! lol But thats a render I will save for tomorrow...as it's taking longer and longer here to render. Now I am still having a load of trouble grasping lighting. I am getting it a bit better, relly I am, but I think maybe it's a bit TOO dark around her face on this one. Maybe it's just me. I have read a few lighting tutorials, and I am working on it. But I am proud of myself as I have actually found and LIKE this new POV I got going on here. Also I fixed the arch of the wing...So it looks a tad better.

its me again ! a large improvement overall, a scene usually looks better when your focused more on the subject and less on the background. The wing does look a lot better, but now it looks broken too :( The problem with this view now is that yo can see so much more of the figures bodies, so a lot of little details need to be fixed in order to make it look more realistic. this is a problem with poser as a whole unfortunatly, so it will probably never look exactly righ, it just takes work and practice. nice to see that your keeping at it though. dont get frustrated. Anyway, a few more observations . His wing, at the top where it arches, the feathers are too thick, they stand out. Just those first 2 on the left. His shoulder looks all wrong too, like its dislocated. its not even with the other one. And his arms are to smooth. Shen the arm bends, the biceps flexes. His looks wooden, like plastic. You should probably smoothin his chest a little too. Where her hand touches the step, her thumb dips into the surface a little. The same with the chain, the first two links are good, the the top one goes into the step and into the link instead of through it like the other one. Additionally, i'd either make her thighs a little smaller or else bring her knee and ankle away from her body a little bit. And rotate the foot instead of bending it back when you pull her toes out of the ground. Finally, his hair doesnt look right. Where it comes off the back of his neck, it doesnt look like its coming from his head. I'd say it was a wig. For your final render, make a new layer out of it and motion blur the edges so it looks like its growing from his head. The front of it isnt as bad.

I am not overly concerned about the feathers at the moment because they all look too plasticey to me anyhow. I will work that in post...its a huge task but I gotta do it. lol I agree with his shoulder tho i am scared to DEATH to move it since it took me like FOREVER to get the pose with their hands somewhat good. But I know i have to...lol. That hair is probably not the hair I will use in the end...It was just something I decided to stick on his head and try out. Thanks for pointing out the chains tho, I hadn't noticed that and now of course it's bugging the heck outta me! lol Heres the latest and last for tonight. Lets all hope I get this right SOON! Mostly for sanity's sake but also because it's a gift and times running out. (technically I have a week, but at the rate I am going it'll take a month!) Thanks darkphoenix, I really appreciate the input.

WoW! SCARY!!! You're getting way too good at this...Way too fast. Wish I could learn that fast... You've already given us a gift, just think how much he's going to love it. But don't you forget to please yourself, you hear? Spots take a while longer to render. Should have mentioned that. Don't dispair. You'll know this image so well, post-production will be a breeze. Got to fly. Got to find me a cobra and a mongoose. An artist's work is never done. LoL. Cheerio! Q

Let me just say that I wouldnt be learning anything if it wasnt for the help of talented people like yourselves! So again thanks! And on that note..help!!! lol I just am not sure what the best hair for him would be. I don't have a lot of Mike hair as I use him VERY rarely. To be honest this is my first scene ever with more than just one char in a scene!! lol So any hair suggestions are welcomed and appreciated!! Thanks!!

I'm so sorry. I don't have Mike. The only hair that I've worked with that may fit Mike is the blunt cut and possibly Anton's ponytail. Gulp!!! For what it's worth, I prefer the one without the ponytail. Number 3, I think it was. Good luck. Trust your judgement. Technique can be learned. Vision can't. Never give up one for the other. You have a good sense of what is beautiful. You can understate something as dangerous and as difficult as tenderness and still let it permeate your work. That's rare. So...Trust in your vision. Q

Thanks Quix. Course right now I am banging my head against the wall going WHY DOES SOME HAIR CONFORM AND OTHER HAIR NOT!! lol VERY frustrating. I think I am going to try this LAST hair piece on him and if it dont work he can stay bald or I will paint it in post!! lol But I appreciate the kind words, makes me less likely to throw my PC out the window...:)

i'd say paint it in post, personally. just give him some fuzz up top with a texture and add the hair later, it'll most likely come out better. I usually do my hairs in 3ds Max, poser hairs in general dont impress too much. I think the dragon rider 2 hair would probably look good on him if you have that model, just use poser 4 - michael hair to convert it. You can get it at the daz 3d store, its free, and it converts poser hairs to fit mike and vicky.

Ok all. I am not done by a long shot but i was itching to do some post so I took a test render and postworked it to death. lol Mostly for the fun if it. I still have to work on the image itself in Poser but eh, I wanted to take a break. But I thought I would post it here because this is sort of what I have in my head. Granted it looks way better in my head. The hair is painted in photoshop with a mouse, so go easy on me. lol I don't do well with hair. But I am trying. ;) So hopefully you all will get the general idea of whats in my head from this image.