Late last week, two key announcements made by DAZ, a popular 3D production company infamous for the creation of models and props to be used in an equally popular 3D Software program known as Poser owned by Curious Labs, was partially responsible for causing several small brush fires to break out on the Internet Plains. Those small tendrils of flames were further fanned as high winds of paranoia and confusion turned these simple brush fires into a firestorm that now threatens several local area Communities. Wildland Firefighter Officials, responsible for tracking and monitoring conditions in the Internet Plains, seemed completely unprepared for the ensuing firestorm that now threatens several local Community homes and have yet begun to gather in an attempt to combat or contain the swiftly approaching blaze. One Wildland Firefighters who was question as they watched the approaching firestorm, with worry in their face, was quoted as saying: "We were taken completely by surprise by the two lightning strike announcements that touched off these blazes and we have yet to determine how to go about trying to contain this blaze." We now join Jack D. Kammerer, an Internet Plains analyst who has several years experience in monitoring and tracking conditions for potential wildfires and firestorms that could threaten the local area Communities. "Mr. Kammerer, earlier today, you told me that you were not surprised by the storm that is responsible for touching off this blaze, nor were you surprised that this blaze has now become a Community threatening Firestorm, could you please explain?" Of course. The storm responsible for one of the two announcement lightning strikes that touched off the blaze, should not have been much of a surprise to anyone. Had officials and members in the Community now threatened by these blazes looked, they would've clearly seen the signs. For those who have been members of this Community for years should remember that there was a time when DAZ (then Zygote) had discussions in regard to the purchase of Renderosity. So it is easy to believe that just because the sale of that particular local area Community didn't go through, that DAZ would loose interest in the idea of purchasing a home within one. Another telltale sign should've been the Survey that they ran a little over a week ago, which clearly expressed an interest of closer involvement in a forum based website. In fact, if one had paid particular attention, they might've even been able to predict where that lightning strike would occur and had they really been worried about it, prevented it from occurring. It is obvious that no one felt the need too. "Including yourself?" Including myself. I have always supported the decision of DAZ in purchasing a Community Home and had been one of those responsible for the discussions mentioned earlier that never went through. The reasons for the creation of many of these local area Communities has been to bring the user closer to the product ... that product being Curious Lab's: Poser and the company responsible for the majority of Poser content: DAZ. DAZ realized the potential and outcome of doing this and after allot of thought, agreed and did it. "Let's get back to you not being surprised of this becoming a Community threatening Firestorm ... why is that?" Easy. For a while now the Internet Plains that surround the Communities have began to dry up. In many parts of those Plains there has been a lack of direction or change that would keep those areas from drying up or becoming stagnate ponds. Because of this, many who live within those Communities has become irritable and unhappy, granted some have decided to pack up and move, forming their own Community neighborhood in an effort to try and breath some sort of life back into their own and any others that would join them, but for the majority many others have congregated in one place and have been looking for something or someone to take their frustrations out on. For many others, they have remained faithful to the Community that they have lived in and been a part of for a long time now. Some of those individuals feel that their faithfulness has been overlooked or threatened by the purchase of a Community other than theirs. Because of this, they are quick in trying to defend their home and they feel the best way in which to defend that home is by attacking what they view as the "OTHERSIDE". This reaction is one of the most common and has been fostered even before I came on the scene. Then there are what I call the "Warmongers" the individuals who wiggle their way into the Community like snakes and wait for an opportunity to strike and spread their poison. These individual look forward to changes and are the loudest to cry out "conspiracy" every time an announcement of change takes place. They particularly make their homes in places that have a lack of control or direction and are the biggest threat to ANY Community. Some of them may never interact or take part in anything until the opportunity to create a "war" presents itself. While some others who grow tired of waiting for anything to happen, decide to attack the very Community they exist in. Neither have no regard or care for the Community they live in and usually will suck it dry of all life then move on to the next Community they can find a dark hole to hide in. "What do you see happening in future?" I see that if some measures of control and containment of the Firestorm that is making it's way into the Communities doesn't take place. Communities such as Renderosity could end up becoming a burned and charred husk. "Why is that?" Just suppose DAZ became completely and totally frustrated with all of the crap that is being said and in turn said: "All right, fine... From this point forward DAZ is not going to allow the sale of any product based upon the use of their geometry unless it is sold through them." Then the majority of the Community marketplace would suddenly disappear and profits that support those Communities would cease or decline drastically. Personally, I don't see this as happening and despite what anyone may think, the possibility of this happening has always been present even before DAZ's purchase of a Community Home. Currently, right now, Communities such as Renderosity is completely dependent upon the cash-flow that comes in from their online store. This cash-flow is based upon the sales of product that currently is based primarily on products being sold for use with the DAZ Millennium characters. Despite what anyone may think, the ability to sell these products outside of any DAZ store has not only been a smart business move on DAZ's part to further increase the sales of their products that brokered product is based on or for, but also as a COURTESY to the Poser Community. Despite whatever line of BS many individuals may try to feed you, DAZ has ALWAYS had "CONTROL" of the marketplace. This is NOT a NEW DEVELOPMENT!! As long as the majority of product that is released is based upon their own product, that "CONTROL" is always present!! The mere fact that they haven't extorted that "CONTROL" upon the Community is a testament to their desire to not only GROW their OWN COMPANY but also GROW this COMMUNITY. Renderosity is NOT the Community. Renderotica is NOT the Community. The PFO is NOT the Community. RuntimeDNA, 3DCommune, BBay, AniMotions, the Big-I and PoserPros is NOT the Community!! These are merely structures that allows the Community to visit, they are NOT the Community... YOU ARE and that Community is where ever YOU choose to go. YOU have the choice of which of these structures or websites are going to suit YOUR needs. Stop worrying about what someone else's needs are and start focusing on YOUR OWN. If people feel they will get their needs met over at PoserPros, LET THEM. This stupid BSing attitude that you have to fight with other places because they don't meet YOUR needs is STUPID and SELFISH on your part. Who are you to think YOU know what SOMEONE ELSE NEEDS? I had to grow up and face that, it's about time all of you had to do the same!! The only way that DAZ's purchase of PoserPros.com is going to affect Renderosity is if you, the members of Renderosity, LET IT!! By letting your petty bickering tear this site and other sites apart, destroying your friendships and pissing off the people that create the product that you have so fervently use is a sure fire way to turn this site into a twisted mass of charcoal. And rather than me being the smart guy and playing fricken Nero and letting all of you kill yourselves off, I am standing here and telling you to act like the civilized human beings that you all claim you are. Grow up and let's see what DAZ does, let's try and help to make it work because in doing so, you will only be helping to save your beloved website of your choice. 'Nuff said, Jack

Well Said :-)

Thank you :o)

very well said Jack!

Jack... my hero! :)

Agreed, well said Jack.

...but I COULD be wrong ;-)

Coming up, Sports! :)

Applause, applause!

Bravo! Thank You :)

CLAP!!!!! CLAP!!!!!!!!!!!! Encore!! encore!!!!!!!!!!!! Jack this was great!!!!!!

One of the most profound and creative "articles" I have ever read Jack. Spoken with wisdom from someone who has "been there, done that". Thank you.

Whew Finally someone says something SANE. Thank you, Jack! Kimberly (who has been watching the firestorm in horrified silence for two days wondering when the voice of reason would finally ring out)

What bickering? I hadn't noticed any? The only thing people seem to be worked up about is the Tailor issue at the moment. It doesn't seem to me that DAZ buying PoserPros has any affect on me or Renderosity at all, but maybe I'm missing something? -WTB

Do you feel better now Jack? What do you sound like when you're really excited?

And now with our sports coverage... Driskeil McFadden... Driskeil... Driskeil? Aw "BEEP" he's been drinking again... someone start the coffee... hmmm let's see, I'll read his report... a bunch of guys got scared, angry then argued, said the sky was falling but the sun still came up the next day.

What??? Did I miss something or something? I have been kinda out of touch. In other words, What Happen this time?

Exactly, Jack. Precisly. :] FishNose

Thankyou!! Alla

Finally. Thanks Jack.

"Currently, right now, Communities such as Renderosity is completely dependent upon the cash-flow that comes in from their online store. This cash-flow is based upon the sales of product that currently is based primarily on products being sold for use with the DAZ Millennium characters." I see a lot of supposes, there. Interesting piece, btw. Do you write professionally?

It doesn't seem to me that DAZ buying PoserPros has any affect on me or Renderosity at all, but maybe I'm missing something?<< Nope, you're not missing a thing. That is the point in a nutshell. You have summed it up quite nicely, IMO, WTB. Kate

Jack, you have done this community a huge service, well spoken, with confidence and respect. Thank you. Mike and Sharen

Damn poor analogy Jack. I expect better from you. Guess I get disappointed by someone yet again. Here's the honest, realistic, non-profit version: If you're going to make a deal with the devil, don't play the victim when the flames start burning your ass. If anyone gets shot down in flames, it won't be R'osity. Yours truly, x2000-The Amazing Snake-Man PS: Since Entropic and I are, as far as I know, the only ones I know of who've critisized this deal (at least publicly; the IM's and e-mails I've received since tell me we're not alone in our distaste, though), I guess we should be flattered, huh? Never knew we were such a threat. We bad! snicker And FWIW, the subject was closed as far as I was concerned until you came in here and posted this load of cowpies. Like VirtualSite, the more you try to help your "friends", the worse you make things. If you really want to make peace and put an end to the fighting, SHUT THE FUCK UP and let the issue rest. But if you're really here to stir up more trouble (which is where the smart money goes), by all means be my guest. I just hope Russ and Mehndi can survive your "help". "Stop worrying about what someone else's needs are and start focusing on YOUR OWN." Good advice. Uh, and exactly which of your needs does this thread fulfill? BTW, anymore more helpful words about what an evil, selfish bastard I am? They make me feel oh so forgiving... Or we could just drop the issue and... no wait, I tried that, and you had to come in here and attack me and pour some gasoline on the fire. What great PR for PoserPros! How people must thrill at the notion that PP's love of free speech only lasts until someone says something they don't like, and then they send the dogs to hunt them down. Luckily for me they sent out a bunch of toothless old chihuahuas... Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get out of here before the sky starts falling. Wouldn't want to be standing here when PoserPros brings R'osity's roof down, now would I? PoserPros-"What Have You Learned Today?" Heh... so much, OH SO MUCH...

Thank you, Jack. And now with tomorrow's weather forecast, local weatherman Willard Willard: * gesturing vaguely at map * "It's gonna be sunny here, it's gonna be rainy there, it's gonna be nice all over."

It is a free country and internet the last time I checked. If cursing and being concerned about anyone voicing a valid opinion is somehow threatening, then my money is on more competition and freedom of choice not less. This includes the "right" of any website to sell to or buy anyone. Once a select few (or even a majority or government) begin to set "the rules"...that is when I get scared. DAZ has every right, and to a degree, a responsibility as an enterprise to try to succeed. Good luck with PP and lets support more options, more collaborations, more variations, more tolerance AND less name calling! Libertarian forever...

Jack didn't make much sense to me :-)

"Just suppose DAZ became completely and totally frustrated with all of the crap that is being said and in turn said: "All right, fine... From this point forward DAZ is not going to allow the sale of any product based upon the use of their geometry unless it is sold through them."

And suppose that DAZ doesn't have the power or right to control this sort of thing, then it becomes alot of hot air and not much fire at all.

-Jeff

Jack, Your analogy is much nicer than my analogy... but maybe you don't have an uncle with 5 different cattle brands? (I keep wondering if he'd miss one, but the voice of reason reminds me of the stinking mess animals make when a hot iron is applied to their hindquarters with a firm and steady hand.) Carolly, humming a real cowboy song

Low today 43, high tomorrow, hopefully.

and the spin doctors do what they do best.

Would someone do me a favor and cut the legs off of Jack's soapbox? He's talking over my head again. Unless this is an election year. ;-) ScottA

We could have a soapbox derby... ;]

"And suppose that DAZ doesn't have the power or right to control this sort of thing, then it becomes alot of hot air and not much fire at all." No Jeff, Daz is Heaven, and it has sent its angels to throw us all into the fiery pit. "And Saint Jack did sayeth unto them, "Renounce thy evil ways or thou shalt perish in a fiery tempest! Know the love of Daz or thou shall be smited upside thy heads! Resistance is futile! You too will be assimiliated! Your culture will adapt to service ours! One nation, under Daz, invisible, with Stephanie and Victoria for all! And they're bu-u-y-ying a sta-a-a-irway to Da-a-a-az!"

I'm going to bed now. If I've brought down the wrath of God and destined us all to die in a fiery holocaust, I just want to say: Oops. Sorry. Shit happens. Jesus still loves me. Sure, he's no Jack D Kammerer, but it's still gotta count for something, right?

Very well said. And this applies to any firestorm the community goes through, not just this one. (and we've been through a couple, haven't we?) HUGS You're still my man!! Pendy

Cool stuff Jack! Your passion for the whole community is very cool. :)

I generally agree w/JDK on this, but there are some interesting "supposes," I suppose. I do remember the near-acquisition of R'osity, and don't think the acquisition of PoserPros will change much of anything (though clearly prior threads have debated the initial marketing of that site as "anti-corporate" and its effect on the site's credibility). The relationship betwwen the PFO and DAZ doesn't seem to have ended the world as we know it. If DAZ were to try to further restrict creation of derivative figures: (1) it would probably have to do so with new figures, because we all have the licenses for the old ones; (2) it wouldn't be very long before new third-party figures popped up (in addition to Natrixa, Dina, Amy, etc.) and community effort was directed toward those figures instead. In fact, the folks at DAZ are not dumb, and have undoubtedly concluded that the creation of derivative figures is a major selling point for their works, making the type of doomsday scenario hypothesized here quite unlikely. Now, if you really want to get yourself into a twist, ask yourself: who is making the figures for P5, since we know from prior threads they will have new features (and new licenses)...

My only connection with DAZ is that I've had the pleasure of talking to them.

JDK: I hope that's not directed at me, as I did not mean to imply anything more than that, as stated in your initial post in this thread. I'm guessing it is directed at those who live by the credo: "If you can say something nice, don't say anything at all." After all, anyone who might have some sort of a profit motive is inherently evil, and those who say anything to the contrary are immediately suspect;-)

Wow... sorry I'm late for the party... been working. Frankly Jack, I appreciate your wonderful "spin". I think it's terrific. And it's always good to know that the PP folks who hate rosity so much still maintain accounts here so that they can drop by and pat you and mehndi and russ on the back with regularity. Must feel good to have a herd of weasels. And as for DAZ's theoretical ability to prevent anything from being made for Vicky/Mike/Whatever, I'd just loave to see them try... In fact, right now I'm pissed enough that I might model a female figure with the exact Victoria sizes, and then tailor Vicky's morphs to accomodate and distribute it for free just to fuck with them. See if they can get me legally? Know what? I'll bet you a buffalo nickel they can't, cause the mesh will be mine. I'll just call it Whopper-Girl. Paul

Michelah, yes I've done my share of writing, particularly in the comic industry, which happens to be where I've returned my attention towards. I still and come in to see what is going on in the Community and saddly, it seems the crap never changes... just the reasons for it. :o) Poppi, I am not trying to be a spin doctor. Just trying to get people to realize it doesn't matter what another "website" decides to do or the people that run it. X2K... Dude, you have it so wrong. I have zero to do with DAZ or PoserPros... they have my support in anything they decide to do, no different than Rosity or you. Fact of the matter is, I have usually agreed with you on several things... just not this. I see you attacking people, calling them names, yelling and cussing... why? Why bother with that shit? DAZ is going to do what DAZ is going to do and the only way it will effect you is if you let it... and you are. I thought you better than that. The one thing I always respected about you was that you never got petty in your arguements, you stated facts with calm and reason... however, this time you are "cussing" at everyone. I've always expected me to lose my cool before you or Legume ever did. Pendy, thanks darling, yes we've had our share and survived them. I'll never mind sharing my foxhole with you... but you might want to consider that I have a tendancy to attract shells!! Either way, I know that I'll survive this one, see this one doesn't involve me for a change!! :o) Everyone else... thank you for listening and agreeing. At least there are some out there that understand. We tried! :o) Jack -who is going to go back to his fiddle... this should prove to be interesting. I don't know what will kill you first... my playing or each other.

"I am not trying to be a spin doctor. Just trying to get people to realize it doesn't matter what another "website" decides to do or the people that run it." Exactly. ;]

kblade, no that wasn't for you, it was for Nu-Be... sorry about that. Paul... um, sorry to tell you, I am as much a part of PoserPros as I am a part of Renderosity. No offense meant here, but both Mehndi and I have managed to work past differences with each other... but that doesn't mean we'd be able to "work" with each other again. I was just trying to help you see that while you sit there and bash the hell out of everyone, cause a big scene and make things completely and totally nasty to view, you could very well be driving people from Rosity. Do what you want... I could give a flying fuck... I have no real involvement with the Community anymore than to sit here and watch everyone screw each other over and make asses of themselves. Scuse me for trying... please, go back to what it is your doing. You are accomplishing so much... I really shouldn't try and stop you. I have less invested in the Poser Community now than you do. Jack

Be nice.

Otay... :o) Any chance I can get a Krispy Kreme? Jack

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Krispy Kreme...

Sure, all you can eat, on the house. 8]

Thanks Darling, lord knows you need something to nibble on when you settle down to read a novel and boy, let me tell you, some of these threads have become novels in their own right!! :o) Jack

Jack, try not to take this personally, cause I really don't think we've ever crossed paths on any level, but I log in to find that you've taken it upon yourself to be the voice of reason and compassion and to show me and x2k and the rest of the world all the errors of our ways. This is then followed up by a dozen posts from regular members of PP basically commencing in a decent level of verbal masturbation by patting you solidly on the back. Wtf would you think? ( Oh, great, so now you're "above" the fights that you were such an integral part of helping to create? ) Don't think you have the abiity to take away my right to be pissed. DAZ is trying to fuck over a community I love, and Mehndi and Russ have used hypocrisy to sponsor DAZ to the same effect. And you're right, I currently have a lot more at stake in this community than you do, so thank you so much for your permission to defend that investment. Paul P.S.: Go ahead, Jack, get the last word in if it makes you feel special. I have better things to spend time on.

Paul, all I can say is that was very well written, concise and to the point without being nasty. And you are right, you'd have every reason to think the way you did considering that there were some PoserPro/Renderosity members who posted behind me. Yes, you have the right to defend your investment, I wasn't trying to take that right away. I was only asking you to slow down some and express that defense in a manner that wouldn't cause others to skim over it, but actually read it... as I did with your last message. The only reason why I am above such fights right now is because I don't make them my fight. I used too, hell, I was the first one to pick up a banner and wave it around and tried to get people to rally behind me in some stupid cause... but the fact of that matter is, I have grown to old and tired to fight over something petty. The Community will only get "fucked" if the Community allows itself to get fucked. Banner waving, rallying up a lynch mob, screaming and cussing isn't going to solve this situation or problem, if indeed it is a problem. None of this can be certain until we have more information presented to the Community by DAZ. I was only trying to show the "errors of ways" because they are the same errors that I've made myself. I was, like you, trying to help. There is absolutely nothing wrong with defending something you love, but it makes your point easier to listen to if it is done calmly with rational... such as what you just displayed. Yes, you are looking for answers and your inflamed and irratated right now, allot of people are, but enacting on it violently is only going to hurt the Community you love so much in the long run. You are intellegent, you bring up some very good points and questions, but they are most likely going to be overlooked if they are pointed out or asked in the middle of a bunch of swearing, finger pointing and name calling. Everyone deserves the right to have their voices heard. All I was asking was if people would relax a bit so it would be. Jack -who doesn't feel special... only trying to help.

Jack, Please don't consider any of the animus of my message to be directed at you personally. Like I said, I've never had a problem with you on any level, but there are things that need saying, and for x2k and myself, no one else seems willing to say them, which puts us ( and poppi to a great extent ) in a very tough position. We were all once friends of Mehndi's to either a greater or lesser extent. The fact that the three of us have each, in turn, been used or betrayed in a similar fashion, while the person who has done so continually pulls more support from those who cannot see past the illusion of benevolence to the ulterior beneath, is frustrating to say the least. It leaves you with a sense of saying, "How can people be so stupid t ojust not see?" The fact is, most don't want to see. Sure it does little good to flame away, but some days it takes the sting of knowing you've been manipulated and softens it just enough to make you feel better. So what does this thread accomplish beyond the so many others? Nothing. We have regurgitated the same points, rehashed the same memories, and spit the same venom, and it means just a little bit less the more we carry on.... Paul