"If they back off and make it only illegal to use tailor to approximate the geometry from a clothing item so that they can apply it to the figure then I will support that. " Sorry Katt. Your choice, but I won't. That's effectively claiming the shape of a human figure is owned by them wether it contains any of their geometry or actual morphs or not, and that to the best of my knowledge is not legal. At the very best, in regards to 3D modeling, it is legally ambiguous. If they limit it to distribution of only cr2's, morphs, geometry and items they DO own, yeah, I'll support that. Otherwise.. claiming that they own items and rights to those items that were modeled and morphed by someone else? No way. My work is fucking mine. Your work is yours. Their work is theirs. I'll go back to supporting Posette, Dork and origional figures like Natalia and Dina ONLY before I'll let anyone claim that something I make is theirs. As far as non clothing items... I can smart prop a sword or peice of armor to posette as easily as I can to Vicki. Or leave it unparented and the customer can prop it to the figure of their choice. And I'm going to bet real money that a lot of modelers will feel the same way I do.

OK, I'm back after a little sleep ;) Some people have accused me of fanning the flames, but I only do it to clear the SMOKE which is obscuring the real issues. My intent is not malicious and I regret that some have taken it that way. I do however, wish to separate the speculation and conjecture from the factual, and that apparently rubs some people the wrong way. I also acknowledge that there is more than one way to look at and interpret the situation, and that these thoughts are from my own perspective (which is that of a potential merchant who is NOT affiliated with DAZ). As there are clearly several perspectives to this issue. It would benefit us all if everyone would post their honest DAZ affiliations and/or merchant status so that we may understand which perspective they are addressing. But since obscurity is the aim of at least one group, I don't think that will happen. Here are the issues as I see them: 1) DAZ has made a statement and a follow-up clarification that APPEARS to restrict the distribution (free and retail) of any clothing item that "fits" [my term - derived after you weed out the hyperbole] either the Michael2 or Victoria2 MORPHED figures - REGARDLES of the method used to create them. 2) DAZ has SUGGESTED [perhaps implied is a better term] that their EXCLUSIVE merchants may be exempt from this restriction. 3) Copyright per se is NOT an issue, and never was part of this issue. This is an issue of DAZ's policies as contained in their EULA, TOS and FAQ. Unfortunately, it serves their purpose to make us THINK this is a copyright issue because most of us are honorable and respectful of such rights. However they have been VERY careful in their statements to minimize use of the term "copyright" and instead use the general term "RIGHTS", which has no legal meaning whatsoever. But I DO acknowledge that DAZ DOES have some rights which extend beyond copyrights, so the REAL ISSUE is just how far those rights extend. 4) Woefully missing from all the threads and posts I have read is any acknowledgement of the RIGHTS of others aside from DAZ. For example, what about us consumers and our CONSUMER RIGHTS - or - us ARTISTS and our FAIR USE RIGHTS, - or - us MERCHANTS and our FREE ENTERPRISE RIGHTS? Those of you who believe every word that comes from DAZ as gospel, have voluntarily RELINQUISHED all the above rights that you are entitled to. But that is OK because it's your choice to do so. But what you CAN NOT DO is tell me that I or anybody else must also relinquish OUR rights. 5) The infringement example cited by DAZ is a superficial ploy which suggests that you can create a fully functional Michael2 figure from a set of morphs contained in a BODYSUIT simply by pushing a button. Those of you who bought into this misrepresentation and jumped on their bandwagon saying, "Gee, I see their point" have just been deluded, or you don't know enough about Poser to know this simply cannot be done with any credible result. Think I'm blowing smoke? I'll offer $500.00 cash to anyone who can deliver to me within 24 hours a cr2 for a fully functional Michael2 that is derived solely from Michael1 and a bodysuit - ANY bodysuit, including DAZ's own which contains ALL the body morphs. LOL! DO you really believe that Michael2 sales are threatened by morphed clothing which ENHANCES Michael2? 6) DAZ is a commercial BUSINESS we are dealing with, so we should not expect or rely on them to protect our rights. In the same vein, we should NOT chastize them for making BUSINESS DECISIONS, so no matter what you wish to "infer" from any of my posts, I do NOT hold DAZ in contempt for anything they have done - it's just business! I DO hold in contempt any individual who relinquishes his/her rights and then insists that I do the same. There is a general rule in business which goes something like "If you can get away with it, do it, it's good business" - this philosophy has served Microsoft very well. So let's stop all the talk about "right versus wrong" or "legal versus illegal" because none of that even enters into the equation. ITS JUST BUSINESS. Their business to profit and protect their interests - OUR BUSINESS to derive value and protect our own interests. THOSE ARE THE ISSUES as I see them - anything else is smoke and mirrors! A few final note to clarify earlier posts: Mehndi (message 68): I'm sorry for my poor choice of words, it was late, and I was hasty. I used the term "second-rank" NOT "second-rate" as you read it, and I was referring to a tiered system of marketing where specialty items and/or special value items are located in a different area of a store, and I derived this impression from one of your own posts wherein you wrote something like "items that may not otherwise meet DAZ's criteria". I also regret that you so easily wish to dismiss everything I have said just because I attempted a bit of levity at the end of a long day. Perhaps it was a late night for you too ;-) fishnose (message 81): You are confusing two basic issues by suggesting that CONSUMER practices and standards and PROFESSINAL practices and standards are are the same. They are NOT. The Poser community may have started as a professional community of elite commercial developers and producers, but it certainly isn't that today. Furthermore, your use of Microsoft as an example for DAZ to follow, is inappropriate. In fact there is a parallel community within Microsoft that is very similar to the Poser community. It is based on MS Flight Simulator and MS Train Simulator, and in THOSE communities Microsoft freely allows usage and redistribution of derived textures and meshes based on the 70% rule. So do many other communities built around games and other software. DAZ is EXCLUSIVELY the most restrictive such community on the internet by imposing not only a 100% rule, but now they are pushing for the 110% rule which extends their "rights" to include not only identical, but "similar" by their definition. Finally, all I might ask or expect of anybody is a reasonable interpretion of the facts. Without malice, exaggeration or prejudice, but with an open mind which can at least acknowledge that there are sereral different sides to this issue, but each has a right to exist. Best wishes to all. I wish DAZ every success in business, as they are vital to this community. I will, nonetheless, continue to argue for my own rights and for the rights of all those who are in a similar position.

Well said, Ronstuff.

bookmark :)

LadySilverMage, you assumed that I had not read the FAQ. (I had, numerous times.) You assumed you knew more about my Free Stuff characters than I did. You came at me with a negative, combative attitude, and I corrected your misconceptions. Believe me I waited till you'd insulted me a few times before I stepped up my own responses. You admit to having some legal background, therefore you could understand the FAQ and DAZ's recent comments. You couldn't understand that others might have problems with comprehending unnecessary legaleze. You chose to insult me, and others who have the same difficulty. I think that's pretty darned narrow-minded of you. You can keep the rest of your psycho-babble. Believe me, I'm familiar with it all. I've "been there, done that," "lived to tell about it." It's one of the "benefits" of having a father and wife who work in the field. And yes I had plenty of reasons for making that area my own independent field of study. Believe me, your unprofessional assessment is totally off-base. And I don't care if you like the metaphors, comparisons, whatever. Just accept the simple fact that many people, including myself, are and were confused by DAZ's policies. Many of us are angry at what seems a betrayal at this time. And yes, many of us are hoping DAZ will step in tomorrow and make us all feel safe and secure. I'd be happy if it ended that way.

ROFLMAO, Ron you made it perfectly clear how you did your characters - I had no need to assume anything! You also implied that you had previously done your homework. BTW - what you did with the morphs and the questions it raised were actually seperate from DAZ implying ownership of approximated morphs. I am sure that you you are familiar with psycho babble nd that you have "been there"

sigh Maybe someday...

Quote; Eula Revisions: A EULA is a contract. You are bound by agreement to the EULA you SIGNED AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, and to the policies that were in force at that time of purchase on the item you purchased. And if those policies are not stated in the EULA you agreed to, you are NOT signatory to it. That is an absolutely indesputable fact provided that the EULA doesn't contain unenforcable provisions in which case it's all hogwash. Someone else said that DAZ does not have the power to arbitrarily create new copyright law. That too is an absolutely indesputable fact. The words "prohibit" and "ban" are being used in a very ignorant fashion here. DAZ cannot prohibit or ban anything. ronknights you are NOT wrong. Mark

always being one to piss in the face of self-proclaimed authority, this debacle has inspired me to again try to learn modelling well in order that I may, in the deep, dark privacy of my home, create contraband morphs and smuggle them out of state to be distributed through a vast, intertwining network of coyotes, to crazed, frothy-mouthed Mike and Vicky 1 users worldwide.

time for bed :)

lmao

LadySilverMage, I had several characters already created for about a year. They were my Marlin Fingle characters. Those characters had been created to eliminate Crosstalk with any Millennium figures. The only thing that kept me from releasing those figures was the difficulty in learning exactly how DAZ wanted things done. Believe me I've tried and tried to get translations for that information. Then, after all those months, I release yet another character who had been fixed to eliminate Crosstalk. He was in a cr2. Yes, according to recent revelations, that one was prepared and shared incorrectly. My next character was a Millennium Girl, and she began life as a cr2. I was informed of a name conflict, and at about that time I had finally discovered how to create a MOR pose file. I pulled that Millennium Girl, changed her name and substituted the MOR file for the cr2. So I was "half wrong," there, but I fixed the problem. I created another figure, "my answer" to big breasted super heroines. She was a MOR pose file, not a cr2 file. Do you see the trend, toward the "acceptable means of sharing?!" Each of these figures had Tailored clothing. I had waited 4 months to be sure there were no objections, legal or otherwise, from DAZ or others, In fact I had even contacted Serge for permission to Tailor his Millennium Girls clothing packs. He granted permission. After close to a year, I had finally released some free characters, and planned to release more. Then DAZ came with their sneaky announcement. Most of Renderosity wasn't aware of the "Tailor Proclamation" till I went to PoserPros and brought back the news. I damned well could have had my characters out close to a year ago, if I'd been able to understand DAZ's FAQ, or get someone to translate. I damned well would not have released Tailored clothing if DAZ had been clear on their stance from the start. Frankly I'm damned angry and tired. You have no just cause to harass me. No one does. But that doesn't stop you from acting out. *** In the past week I've put my own needs aside to create two tutorials that people requested. I then released my characters. It just isn't worth the effort any more. As it stands right now, my recent characters will not be revived at least until I am sure how it can be done without risking legal action. Even then I'll damned well think about it for awhile. I'm fighting a cold right now, and I'm lucky to keep myself sitting upright on this chair, let alone thinking clearly or feeling better. It's time to stop wasting that physical and emotional energy. I really debated about whether I should release the last few tutorials and freebies since every freebie usually was followed immediately by someone's attacks, or some sort of other challenge from this community. Now DAZ is in the mix. I'm taking a break. I won't create anything to give to this community at least till I feel better physically. At that time I'll see if I feel like giving of myself for other reasons.

Oh, Ron... I am indeed quite disppointed in you! It took you more than a full day to wave the TOS. You usually brandish it within mere hours. ::shake head at the phenomenal unreliability of what had been as predictable as sunrise:: Poor Ron is fighting a cold! I have a bit more sympathy for another guy who is typing with a broken wrist. "... take Carolly with you." Gee, I guess you are a bit annoyed at those who see through your games. You remind me of my mother, but she was a professional martyr not some unpracticed amateur, and she was intelligent enough to use language to effect her purpose. Jo-Anne's Fabrics has a special on sackcloth... but you'll have to gather the ashes yourself. Think you can do that, or should we draw you a map of a fireplace... grating and all? Carolly

I own the color "red" bookmark :P BT

What, are we staking out primary colors this week? Ko - I'm trademarking "Blue". And all varaints and derivatives thereof.

I'll take green, aways my favourite :)

Hey, I have a plan to fix everything. Why doesn't the Poser community get together and create PUBLIC DOMAIN, high quality character meshes that rival Mike and Vicky? Let's call them "LINUS" and "LUCY," because thse two characters should be like "Linux," i.e. open for anybody to play with and improve upon for free. Daz's importance to the Poser community boils down to two things: Mike and Vicky. They own them and so they can dictate the rules. But surely some of the talented Poser pros who frequent this place can get together and come up with something equally as good, if not better. And if they donate these two new characters to the Poser world, then DAZ won't have such a stranglehold over all of us and we can all go back to having fun again. It's be a hell of a lot more useful than all this arguing. What do you say, talented Poser gurus? If Daz continues to own everything, think of all the money you'll be losing by not being able to peddle your wares freely. It's time to act! Form a "LINUS" and "LUCY" creation consortium. Free Poser now!!!

Sorry. I meant to type: "It'd be a hell of a lot more useful than all this arguing." And it would.

I claim the shape "round" and the color purple (please submit anything that may be approximately round or vaugely purple to me in advance and I will determine, in my sole discretion, if you may use them). Marking my spot before I go to bed :)

i claim the word claim so be carefull!!

snap I wanted green! Fine, I'll settle on purple, since pink is already taken by Mattel. :) On that note, it's bedtime.

Darnit Scifiguy! Your claim for purple came as I was typing mine. snap Okay, puce! It's mine. :)

Well that being the case, then I'm going to trademark and copyright farts. So, anyone who breaks wind pays me royalties and needs to apply to me for permission, in advance, in triplicate before doing so. Got it? Better stay away from the beans. bookmark

actually, you all are already infringing on my copyright. See, I meant red and all dirivatives. Well, hell if companies can change what their readme's mean..I can too. so since I own red...purple and pink are dirivatives. and since it appears we can also interpret a copyright to mean anything we want..then I also interpret the other colors that do not contain red as dirivatives by defining them as "the absence of red". but I have to admit...claiming the shape "round" has me at a loss on how I can claim a copyright violation out of it. lol BT

lol questor..Im on a protein diet (weight lifting), so I owe you like a million dollars from just last night...lol BT

ROTFLOL.. I expect the cheque in the post in 48 hours BT, or I'll send round the men in ill-fitting suits. :)

jjsemp, You are hitting on my idea right now. Didn't want to announce it before I got the rest of the team together but since you brought it up: The Free Market Family Team is going to be working on just this thing. We are going to start with a female and work from there. Stay tuned for further developments and an official announcment.

.

Questor: I think George Bush may be on your list as well. Those Colonoscopies have a way of whipping up the big winds. Good luck collecting. The big question, it seems to me, is: Is using another program to approximate any of the forms of V2M2 prohibited under the reverse-engineering clause? I have been giving this some thought. I have not been able to come up with an actual example where this would be the case in other fields. If anyone can think about one, please let me know. But it seems that DAZ is trying to restrict the process. Misunderstanding on my part, I'm sure. I hope they clarify. Q

Kattman, your idea has some merit, in an "idealistic sense." But look at all the money we'd be throwing away if we abandoned our Millennium Characters and/or other DAZ products. It's too great a loss. Besides, hasn't this sort of thing already been tried? Isn't Eve a step in that direction?

Ajax wrote:

"Essentially what DAZ are saying is that you can't use one of their products in the process of making something that may damage sales of that product or any of their other products, unless you have their permission."

Well that's a nice concept, one that every business would like to enforce, but it can't be done.

That's the nature of competition.

As long as copyrighted datasets aren't being distributed there's no base to stand on. Orignal morph deltas belong to it's creator and can be traded/sold without DAZ' say so.

-JH.

Essentially DAZ is saying you can't produce something that damages the sale of one of their items unless you agree to sell it exclusive through DAZ. Witness Michael's Morphing Clothing pack and bodysuit which would allow Mike 1 to pretend he's Mike 2. It's sold at DAZ, but a "Tailored" bodysuit that does that same thing (even if it's free) is in violation... Unless you sell it at DAZ.

"The Free Market Family Team is going to be working on just this thing. We are going to start with a female and work from there." BUCK THE TREND! START WITH A MALE! Yes - you CAN model a willie! It's OK! ;]

ROTFLMFAO @ Ironbear....

I herby declare that I own the numbers "zero" and "one". All your code are belong to me....lol Tom

Model a Willie who can have a woody, and who has hairy balls. Model a wanda who has a vulva. You get the idea.

What about a throat? And some decent eye sockets and ear holes and a wiggly thing at the back of the throat and... and... err.. Oh sorry, wrong thread. :)

There is a variety of female models. All I need is a good male model with some normal sized hands, not girlish itsy bitsy fingers like Mike. :P

Geezus...I have such a headache now.

"What about a throat? And some decent eye sockets and ear holes and a wiggly thing at the back of the throat and... and... err.. Oh sorry, wrong thread. :) " Possibly even the wrong website, Q. Eeeeeeewwwww! ;]

ROFL! Hahahaha! I'm laughing so hard that I'm crying, Q.

Well, after an extremely long day, primarly filled with meetings and appointments that had been scheduled long ago, we finally were able to check in on this thread. And now, literally hours later, after reading all the way through this thing, it's Tuesday.

So, I guess this is the point where I'd planned to respond. However, we need to go home and get some sleep so that I can get up in the morning, come into work, and respond to this thread, along with everything else that needs to be done tomorrow.

Good night.
Chad Smith
DAZ Productions

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12395&Form.ShowMessage=768827&Reply=769063

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12418&Form.ShowMessage=766355&Reply=769147#51

BTW, Questor- the word you're looking for is 'epiglottis'. ;]

Thank you Micheleh, I couldn't think of it. But I think I had more fun with "wiggly thing" as that grossed out Ironbear. snicker

Good morning everyone. Or perhaps I should just say hello. Its morning now, but it will likely be afternoon or evening by the time we have this message ready to post. ;)

Just in the way of introduction, this same message is being posted in multiple locations, and of necessity may appear general or may not address every individual that has contributed to this thread thus far. So, on to the issues...

1. This whole thing is not an issue specifically with The Tailor; it is an issue of morph and mesh ownership and protection.

The Tailor is a fabulous product, and DAZ does not feel it contradictory in the least to endorse both the responsible use of this product and the protection of peoples intellectual property. There have been many other tools out there for a long time that provide ways of doing similar thingstools that also can be used in ways that can be either bad or good for everyone involved.

Morph Manager, for example. This is a cool program that is valuable to the community and which DAZ fully endorses. However, there are ways (obvious, I hope) that it can be used which are specifically prohibited by the DAZ End User License Agreement, not to mention common sense. (For example, porting Michael 2 morphs over to a new .cr2 file and distributing that.) Does this mean that DAZ is against Morph Manager, or that we would only like it if we were making money from it somehow? Does this mean that when Morph Manager came out that we needed to clarify, or even change, our EULA? No, it doesnt. Morph Manager is a valuable tool, and people have seemed to understand why and how to use it without violating anyones EULA. If we had become aware at some point that they hadnt, then we would have tried to promote awareness on what is allowed and what is not.

Other examples, more analogous to the functionality of The Tailor include modeling programs, such as LightWave, Maya and Rhino, which have the ability to create derivative meshes or morphs easily. These tools are great; we have no intention not to allow and promote their use. However, if someone creates a derivative mesh from another persons product and then uses that derivative mesh to compete with the product upon which it was based, regardless of their method, then we all have a problem. If someone creates a derivative mesh from another persons product that may or may not compete with the product upon which it was based, then the owner of the original product will need to give permission for its distribution.

On the other hand, if something is not derivative of another artists work it should, by definition, be equally easy to create without using that work in the first place. This is the real issue. Does the original creator of a morph have the right to say how it can be used and what can be done with it? Yes he does. And if this market wants to challenge that then it will create a disincentive for all creators of original morphs in this community, because it wont let them exercise their right to benefit from their work and investment.

1. Entropic, concerning the issue of morph ownership, we understand that you are trying to establish that this right cant be asserted by the creators of these products. However, we were completely unaware that the Poser EULA restricts artists from being able to copyright their works created within Poser. Would you PLEASE elaborate on that for us since this potentially is a much larger issue than the transferring of morph targets with The Tailor ever could be. (You could imagine the fuster cluck that would be created if all developers were told that they have no legal way to protect their content.)

Regardless, you can rest assured that having worked in this industry for over a decade, creating and licensing models and morphs, DAZ is operating on rights that are very solid. No matter what Curious Labs stance is on protecting products created within Poser, that position has no bearing on things created in other applications outside of Poser, such as models, morph targets, U.V. work, and texture maps. The creation of these assets is governed by the EULA of the software in which they are created. Mirai, the product in which we create our models and morph targets says nothing about us not being able to copyright our original works created in that package. The same thing goes for the other 2D and 3D tools that we work with. Even if copyright were in question, we would still have coverage and protection of our original works with our own EULA.

1. Although many people have stated that using a DAZ product as a starting point to create another product which competes with any DAZ product will be a problem for DAZ, this is incorrect. Please re-read our posts and review our policies and actions over the last few years. For example, we havent allowed people to use the Michael mesh to create a Michael competitor, and we havent allowed people to use our clothing files to create a competitor for those clothes. We have, however, regularly allowed people to use Michael to create Michael clothes, even when those clothes compete directly with similar Michael clothes for sale at DAZ.

2. Contrary to opinions that the free availability of a Michael bodysuit containing all of the Michael 2 morphs could not substantially compete with the sale of Michael 2, we have evidence that it has. In fact, this recent information, in combination with some private requests for clarification from DAZ, was actually what prompted our initial post on the matter. However, we also realize that this is a very isolated case, existing largely because of the number of people out there interested in Michael 2 primarily for the ability to create muscle-bound, spandex-clad super-heros. As far as other clothing items and figures go, we are not currently aware of losing many, if any, Michael 2 sales over them. Issues such as whether a clothing item is skin tight, or whether it covers up the whole figure are not the point, but merely some of the factors we consider in our decision of what constitutes unfair competition.

And now, having alerted many people to the basic principles and potential problems associated with this issue, we hope you understand that while we have enforceable rights here, we are going to allow matching our character morphs in clothing items as we have in the past, until such a time as we feel that it is bypassing the need for the characters themselves.

1. The DAZ EULA has NOT changed in regards to the ability to protect our intellectual property from the threat of derivative competition. For example, the user may not reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works clause has been in every DAZ and Zygote EULA from well before we ever did any work for Poser. As some of you have pointed out, the EULA that comes with the specific product is the agreement that governs its usage. It is expected that a user read and agree to these EULAs in order to use the products. And if you dont like to take our word for what is legal or not, please archive these agreements for your own reference.

2. DAZ cannot be aware of and address every issue brought up online that may concern us (and we certainly cant do so in a timely manner). We simply cant know what everyone is doing all of the time. That being said, we absolutely wish that we would have addressed this matter publically, thoroughly, and long ago. We apologize for our tardiness, and will do what we can not to have this type of situation occur again in the future. Trust me, we dont like dealing with this any more than you do.

3. We also feel it is fairly obvious that a few extremely vocal people here have no sincere desire for us to address their concerns or answer their questions. When we have to expend DAZ resources trying to deal seriously and professionally with incendiary remarks from a few people who arent looking for feedback, but rather an opportunity for some cheap shots and a little intrigue, this makes the pink ponies very, very sad. So please, can we drop the sensationalism and scapegoating, ad homini and non sequiturs? Not to mention the conspiracy theories of how the timing of DAZ brokering The Tailor, making posts concerning the EULA and acquiring PoserPros is part of some evil plan. And for those of you who need to ask, yes, this was just coincidence.

4. Finally, let me restate that in our opinion the best way to run a successful business in this market is to create opportunities for others to add on to our work. We feel that a symbiotic relationship is possible and is best for everyone.

Patent, copyright, and license enforcement allow innovators to be rewarded for their work. Do we want to make this system more difficult in our community? Poser development is only viable when we, as a community, make it viable for those creating the workboth original work, and add-on work. If we reward those making add-ons at the expense of those making the original, we will chase many of the developers away from this community, because it will always be easier, less time-consuming and less expensive to create derivative work than it will be to create original work.

Ultimately we need to protect our investments in our developments. We are also publically representing and protecting the interests of all developers. (There are many other morph-based products out there, and were discussing a general principle in a specific way.) There are many people behind the scenes encouraging us to establish a stance that will help to protect their rights as well. For them and us, we need to hold strong. With this being said, in the interest in community peace, we are willing to suspend our stance on the distribution of these DAZ-made morphs on the bodysuit or other clothing items for our figures until the applications that are being developed to aid in the legal transfer of these files have been developed and distributed. (We have been informed, as has the public, that MartinC and Russell Cook are both currently working on such products.) Make note that we retain the right to protect these morphs, and have merely announced temporary permission to distribute these files until such time as an option is available for encrypted distribution. Additionally, we want to make it very clear that people are not allowed to use our proprietary figure model morph targets to transfer to other figure models and then distribute them to others. (For example transferring Michael 2 morphs onto Michael 1, or onto the Poser 4 male figure, or onto the Dina V figure.) Obviously, people will still have to contact the developers of non-DAZ-made morph targets for permission to use them in this manner.

Well, thanks for wading through this huge post, everyone. As difficult as this whole situation has been, we still feel that weve made progress here in promoting both The Tailor and PoserPros, which was our devious plot. (Just kidding.) But seriously, we hope that our concession in this matter will make things easier for the community. And we hope that our posts on this subject have created awareness and a better understanding of what the DAZ EULA means.

Sincerely,
Chad Smith
DAZ Productions

<<Again, I point to my most recent product (with ivyroses), Peytrov. This character comes with a CUSTOM ORIGINAL MESH bodysuit that fits the character's specific combination of morphs and FBM's, but does not, itself, morph. There are no morphs at all in the CR2 of this file. It was shaped to fit a specific body type created using M2. Is this particular product a violation? If not, good. if so, should I delete said product? >> So I can assume by the post above that Peytrov is -NOT- a violation? Coolies.

Thanks for taking the time to post this Chad. It's going to take a while to read and digest this properly but it appears encouraging at least. Response will no doubt follow. You might however have been better off posting this in a new thread allowing consideration for dial up users who may have problems with threads this large. However, it's here, thanks.

Chad, thanks for the response. I've been one of the more vocal people in this matter. I'm the one who finally brought the matter to the attention of the Renderosity community when you and PoserPros had not done so. Indeed I was criticized for waiting till Friday night to make the news here. It's like I have to apologize because I rarely visited PoserPros till this issue came to light! Sorry, but that's wrong. It's easy to jump to conclusions when you don't have all the facts, and when you're not kept in the "commuication loop." That's part of life. Now hopefully you've learned more about this, as have we. You and I have spoken privately and I informed you that I had removed any freebies which might be seen "at risk." That surely should indicate my desire to be a part of a suitable and ethical resolution to the matter, rather than an inclination to merely cause trouble. At this point my best contribution to the solution will be to wait for any news. Ron