First off, I have chosen to post this to this forum instead of the Poser Store forum since it seems that this is where most of the Type C forum members do their reading and posting. What is Type C, why gentle reader, do read on. I have been giving a lot of thought to the naysayers amongst us who always sing the doom and gloom song and dance, no matter whether it be over Victoria, the sale of Poser by Metacreations, or even the wonderful opportunity we now have to perhaps sell some of our work in an online store. Badmouthing that lot is not my intent here but perhaps a drop of perspective might cheer at least one of you who is anxious as to wonder if there is a tactful way to sell and use the forums here. His concern made me sad, and so when I get sad I get outspoken. Bear with me whilst I ramble. Michelangelo was chained to the scaffold by the Pope to force him to paint, when he declined the opportunity offered him. The Pope could not understand why Michelangelo wanted to be payed and why he was not just thrilled to give the Vatican his work for free, since after all, it was art, and wasn't Michel having FUN? After the 45,000th stroke of the arm, the painting is work, not fun. I have now worked as a professional artist, website and ecommerce site, and even game 3d-modeler and animator artist for a very brutal and long 5 years. Some days I wonder if I had known then what I know now, if I would not have merely chosen to go on managing restaurants. Heh, at least there you get cursed to your face only if the food is burnt or late, not if you just want to be payed. I was born with a certain set of eyes, as were all real artists. I did not ask God for them, they came as a blessing, and to keep my ego down to a workable size so I might fit through Heaven's Gate, God bequeathed all artists a curse to accompany the gift. The curse of "why should I have to pay you for what you are having fun doing?" . Though I could also mention other curses such as being viewed as "exotic, nonconforming, misfit, immoral, amoral, difficult to work with " etc. You who do this for a living know what I mean. I have news on this, there is NO "look good" button in any software package I own, and after the 45,000th frame of an animation of the villain eating the ingenue's head, it IS WORK. It has taken me YEARS to learn to what I do very well. And I am one of the best in my field. Really. And also, one of the best paid, though that earns me enemies. Whilst my enemies where watching old reruns of Dallas, and All My Children, whilst they went to movies, read Harlequin Romances, took walks, played with their children, hell took time to even HAVE children I was chained to my computer. Every book I read, every moment I am online, almost every thought I have goes to constant obsessive improvement of my marketable skill set. Everything I do, in the back of my mind I ask, "how can I add this to my resume to get a better job with?" Then I get folks out at Company So and So ask, no DEMAND I show them how I accomplish this, that or the other in Photoshop, 3d Studio Max, with HTML, Javascript, you name it. They want me to give away my trade secrets that took me years of my life to develop, just to stay on in their employee? And if I say no, they are angered, and many times over the years I have faced threats that I will be blackballed, or just petty acrimony, about how they want to be able to "maintain" their stuff without me. Hrm. That is like asking Jesus to carry his own cross up Golgotha, and when he arrived to please nail himself down too. Artists make our LIVING on our product. We pay for our rent, our clothes, our software, and our books (our education is never ending) with what we make from our work. It is the only thing I know how to do well, so let me do it. There are here in this community three types of artists at least. Type A is a perfectionist who will labor a month over a model so as to release something as near to perfection as our skill set could make it. Something that is different than anything else in existence. The store is aimed at those artists, who deserve a little more for the long hours in creating what each of us has either not the time or the ability to do ourselves. These artists are by no means stingy, since they also donate lavishly to the Free Stuff section :) Type B do contribute, but are at a level of learning where their contributions are still smaller things, things the more accomplished can readily achieve without paying for it, if they need it. They donate lavishly to the Free Stuff section. By purchasing items of great complexity, they will not only gain the immediate advantage of usability of the object, but by taking time to "reverse engineer" the object if they so choose (like I have done with my own personal inspiration's works, Thorne) they may learn so much they catapult themselves straight into Type A. Type A is a desirable place to be when you get there, spiff up that resume and send it out to Bethesada Softworks, Microsoft, and Electronic Arts! Get a job ;) Type C are consumers. They do not contribute. They take. And take. And want more and more, for free. They would chain one to a scaffold to get what you do "for fun" free. Those are the ones who so fear they will have to pay for something they will moan for days, wasting the energy they should be using to learn better skills, when in the end their opinion does not mean a lot, since they will NEVER purchase, since they have never tried to create and have no respect for those who do. They are the ones we hear whining a lot perhaps. I myself plan to contribute to both Free Stuff, but to release some of my more time consuming works that are at a professional level of expertise into the Online Store area. I hope no one will be worried about announcing his decision to post to the store for fear of flaming of him or herself in the future, since it makes me sad, and when I get sad, I get bitchy and then I rant. Liz Birdsong Hbg@kreative.net

Liz, Sell away! You obviously have the right to market anything and everything you wish. My feeling is that there may be an initial dearth of postings in "free stuff" as artists look at their work, think it may be worth sticking a price on, and try to make a few dollars. The good news is that an artist can make as much money as the market will bear. Free enterprise includes free choice. If one feels that something is worth handing over a few bucks for, one will do so. If not, not. Once artist and consumer get a feel for what's worth buying or selling, the market will find its level, and "free stuff" postings will probably return to normal. Good luck!

My wife is very happy to see me get a little money for the hundreds (maby thousands) of hours I pour into every work. I hope and strive to be the "A", because I love the curse of creativity. If there weren't "C's", and every one was an artist, the there really wouldn't be any artists would there? For there to be a product the must be a consumer, even if the product is free. I will continue to create free stuff and I will occasionally create an item for the Nerd's Store. Getting paid is a really great inspiration ;-)

While I don't sell my stuff on line and contribute only infrequently, I do make a living at my "art"... and those who ask me for stuff get it - when they treat me like a person and not a shelf full of free smaples. Some one sent me an email. Here is the enitre thing (addresses and headers removed) "Your Ikyoto Faces.zip file link is broken. File cannot be downloaded." Yeah, so? The simple word "Please" is no where in it. I would have mailed them directly to the person along with about 6-7 others I did not put on free stuff if they had remembered that I am not a machine. Even a thank you now and then isn't asked for - just don't forget simple manners. Good post. If people do start flaming, tell the staff here to move the thread to the debate forum.

Hey Ikyoto, I should post some emails from my collection :) They would truly drop your jaw. -Trav

Me, too. And I save EVERY email, forever, lest I forget.

No - No don't move it. It is Poser related. Liz couldn't find the "Look Good" button. Why its right there in the "Creativity" dialog box under the "Talent" pull down menu! LOL Bast - Brilliant (and vastly entertaining) post. ;-)

Heh. While I haven't yet contributed to the freestuff, (still learning), I do know about rather demanding emails since I write fan fiction from time to time. I have a real life too, however, that some readers tend to forget. I ignore the bores and try my best to reply to the polite. :) Greywolf

Yep, polite emails always get an answer from me (and most times a morphly surprise :) rude, nasty, or inconsiderate ones, well they go into the collection. -Trav

Actually Trav, sounds like posting some of your email would also be entertaining. (Except for that one I sent you calling you a no talent bum. No wait, I never signed that one... a-a-a-a nevermind.)

Found the little buggar! Ha! It is under the Expand Brain Menu! And there are a few other goodies I never knew where there too! Kill Computer -> Tear the Roof Off -> Blow Bosses Mind -> Get a Life -> Perform Miracle -> Become Prima Donna -> (That one came naturally to me I hear?) Look Good!!! Next thing you know, I'll be a real artist, not an Artiste Posuer Wannabe ;P

It is not fair to Judge/label complainers as Consumer leeches. It's really simple, folks! If you make something that is probably not universally needed, but "Maybe some folks will find this handy..." then give it away and see. If it took you a lot of time and effort and talent, make some money. I am delighted to pay a reasonable fee for something I need that actually works. (Some of the things on BBay are not things that actually work, IMHO, and it's a shame you can't find that out until you buy it...) As far as complainers go, if you have a complaint, voice it. Run it up the flagpole and see who salutes. If nobody salutes, you're probably an asshole and need to get in line. If people agree with you, you may have a valid point that needs to be explored/acted on. I am a person who loves to complain, and I am quick to be the first to do so. This puts me in a postion to have to apologize a lot, but you know what? When I reverse my opinion, people KNOW I am sincere. If I just went around agreeing with everything, my opinion wouldn't be worth very much would it? The sad thing about this thread is that people seem to assume that everyone has ten extra dollars. That were all just tightwads. The truth is, most of us don't have ten extra dollars, let alone 24.99. I am of the opinion that Allie's Hair is worth 100 dollars. It is totally useful and needed, and if it cost that, i would pay it no hesitation. However, I get a laugh out of Bryce Sky Presets for sale. I am a total buffoon at Bryce, but can manage to get the sky looking 100% the way I want it if I spend ten minutes in the sky lab. Sell good stuff. Make silly stuff free. -Darth_Logice

If you have a new item/thing and you're considering selling it, why not post the item in this forum here first and just ask people if they would pay for it, and if so how much would they be willing to pay? I know that sounds like a leap of faith, but I think there are enough honest people here who are eager to step up to the plate and help keep everything fair for all. I dunno...What do you thinK?

Selling things, or not, isn't the point. Selling things here is the point. Like I said before, I'm all in favour of the free market, and for artists to make money doing what they do best. But business is business, and should be kept separate from social groupings founded for other purposes. If anything, that's just simple professionalism. Allerleirauh's analogy is almost there (with some reservations) , but a more accurate one would be a group of people taking advantage of their positions in a neighbourhood association and using the whole thing to their commercial advantage. An online store could have easily been set up in a different (virtual) place, with an ad-banner link from here for those who choose to follow it. The money making activities could have remained the same, and jolly good luck to them. It's a very important point of principle. It's irrelevant if the profits of the shop are ploughed back into this site, or spent on fast cars and beer. Why? (before reading on, please bear in mind that I have no axe to grind on the 'split' issue, and don't have any agenda regarding the other place) Why is because this place didn't start off as a business, it started off as a user community. The user community was founded as an online self help group. Free for any Poser user to join up and participate. The makers of the Poser program added the poserforum.com URL to the package as a link to a user community. Nearly all of the user base here comes here via that link, expecting to come to a user community. Although the effort put in by the people who run the internet side of things is extremely important and valuable, it's still the fact that the most important people in a place like this are the users who openly exchange ideas and items. They are what make the place worth visiting. They are the whole point of the place. As originally founded, that is. By the placement of the new online store right slap in the middle of this place, and it being called the same as this place, the user community has effectively become the front window dressing for a gallery shop. Every occasion somebody in this community takes the time and effort to answer a query, post a technique or make their work accessible, they subsidise that shop. They are essentially giving money to the owners of that shop. Why? Because the customers of that shop wouldn't visit if it wasn't for all the open exchange they otherwise come here for. The shop has burst out and clambered up on the back of a place that was established for other reasons. That place is already showing the strain. So open a store - fine. Top dollar enterprise, etc. But as far as this place is concerned, put an ad banner to it like all the other businesses that advertise. Make it stand on its own two feet. If the stuff there is good, word will spread. At best, the Renderosity Online Store is a clumsy and unprofessional effort created by owners who haven't thought things through long enough. At worst it's a parasitical cynicism of the most cheapskate, scurrilous kind. Either way, it makes the place an easy target for its enemies...

I ahndle it all in my own way...on occation I make something for free. I do this to promote something similar that is for sale, but involved much more time. The face MT's I made: I gave them away. One of the people who got them showed what they could be used for to their boss. The boss wrote me. I got a nice contract to re-create a bunch of people in their company in Poser so they could incorporate tehm into some clip art to help sell their products and services. See? Some people get something fun for free and I still get money. But if anyone had just wrote and told me: "We need a bunch of people turned into meshes. Here are their pictures. Do these by Friday and bring them over." I would have turned them all into kindling. It's not that I don't want to give things out, or I am doing it only to generate leads for work - it's simple courtesy. Maybe I took the line "You get what you give" too much to heart....

hey PJ. strong words and comments. Thank you for voicing them. now allow, you may, me to respond to them. i shall start from the bottom up, if that's cool. Hmmm, easy target for our enemies..... nothing new there. always were. when in november, this place had but poser and bryce forums. we added others. we added an ADULT forum AND gallery. BIG FAT target for enemies there. When we were able, and that particular forum and gallery began to hold it's own, we named Renderotica and gave it it's own home. The bandwith grew as our community did. so we placed banners to aid in it. target yet again for enemies. We have, since november placed ourselves in the crosshairs time and time again, and will continue to do so. In our eyes, that is the price to pay to create what we have created here. and WILL continue to. and as you have been kind enough to remark, it is not my intention to flame or damn you, but answer and speak from behind the scenes as one of the two top (gentlemen??) who run this community center. i quite agree on what the online store is at this moment as clumsy. it is. extrememely. should you wish to continue to read, i shall continue and explain on the next post.....

in the beginning of the year, BBay wasn't all too well known. many of the artists there were members, as well as contributors here in time, effort and energy. We added a link to the side bar, and once meeting the owner, Bill Bayard, and knowing him as a good person out to help the community artists, we brought our resources to aid him. (that's our mindset. Community aids community). we placed banners up for him. aiding him immensely. as time continued, thankful of our help, he offered to create a contest on our site, using the products he sell, which in turn would aid the artists who contributed to BBay. (BTW THAT was ANOTHER target we proudly wore) and through that, Bill, jack and i became good friends and talks of having BBay and Renderosity work closer together came about and we began planning. Enter: Murphy's Law. BBay went through the Mother of Technical Disasters. one after another!! Customers e-mailed, extrememely concerned about not getting Trav, georgeD, etc. next fantastic creation. The artists, some of which, HIGHLY depended on the cash that came from their sales to survive, grew VERY concerned. The next step was plain, and quite obvious. throw SOMETHING up. half done, still in the works, and build from there. ya see, PJ. we were looking to not only the community, but OUR FRIENDS. the very BASIS of what this site is about. FOR THE USERS. if we weren't, we would have NOT put it up, half assed and unfinished, but waited another month, maybe two to create a complete, fancy smancy store with all the bells and whistles in tact. we didn't do that. we helped our friends instead. and here i stand. Target in place. staring straight at anyone who wishes to take a pot shot. because i'm doing this for my friends. and will again. time and time again. the rest is your valid opinion and point of view. they are valued and respected. and has this is a community forum, your RIGHT to speak them. again, thank you PJ for taking the time and concern to voice them. take care.

Thank you so very very much, PFJ for being able to put my thoughts and fears into words.

One of the reasons I am so very PROUD to be working here is that the people I work for are NOT at all the type to hold back on being HONEST and telling folks like it is. It gives me a great feeling, (as one who cares myself about this community), to know that the professional folks that run this place do so not with a cloud of deceit and animosity covering them, but with sincere objectives, open mindedness and respect and courtesy for the good community as a whole. We are your friends here, and we are "trying", don't make a good thing look like a bad thing. Why do some folks have to drag everything through the gutter before they even give it a chance to "breath"?

And as Ed so wholesomely puts it, all the members opinions are valued and respected and one of the things that make this community special; but at the same time I as a person and a member and as a participant in helping do wish we were able to give things more of a chance to grow before we start to tear it apart with unfounded concerns. My opinions for all there worth, take care ;-)

Thank you for your civil reply, edarsenal, to my passionate and to the point post. I'm grateful that it hasn't been deleted, but find it somewhat amusing that the thread has been shoved out of the main forum once a vociferous opposing opinion was put forward... I think you have completely misunderstood what I meant by clumsy and unprofessional. I'm not referring to the structure of the store (which seems absolutely fine to me). What I'm saying is that it is a clumsy and unprofessional thing to do to put the store in the middle of a user community. As a business, Renderosity Online Store has unfairly awarded itself a substantial customer base by taking advantage of a user base that was established for entirely different purposes. It hasn't earned itself any 'goodwill' of its own, through its own merit. Despite that the fact that you and your friends/colleagues own the hardware and domain for this site, and are therefore legally entitled to do what you want with it, you have to acknowledge that this place started out as a voluntary online community run by users for users. Although the logistical side of things is very important, it is still the fact that it's the users who make the place valuable to - the users! Let me relay an anecdote from my past. I was on the elected committee of a local astronomy club. The club was run by its members, for its members. During one committee meeting, the club chairman tried very hard to turn advertising in the club magazine into a money making operation. The profits from this were to go to the person who sold the advertising space (no prizes for guessing who that was). The idea was thrown out because it was entirely inappropriate, and morally wrong. The club magazine's circulation had been established by the hard work of the members. Quite a lot of non-members subscribed to it (at cost) because it was full of interesting stuff provided by the members. The chairman was told that if he wanted to publish a magazine, he should do so from scratch with his own efforts, and not take advantage of the efforts of those who had made their contribution for completely different reasons. (He lost his position next election). Although the situation here isn't technically the same (this isn't a democracy), morally it is very similar. Renderosity, originally Poserforum.com, was an online community run by Poser users for Poser users. Even now, your title artwork calls it '3D Artist's Community'. But lets come clean; it isn't technically a 'community' anymore, is it? Although nearly all the members of this 'community' still participate on that traditional basis, the fact is that Renderosity is now a business for those that own it. If revenue-raising activities were solely for covering costs, then the place could officially be a non-profit organisation. I'll bet money that it isn't a non-profit organisation. It's probably fair to say that it isn't a big profit organisation either, but that's not the point. I've little doubt that the owners wish to make it more profitable. That would be a nice idea if only those profits weren't being generated on the back of freely given input by the people who regard the place as a community. As businesspersons, you would be much more professional if you kept the profit making operations at 'arm's length' from this place. You should have set the store up with a different name (it could still be on the same hardware) and linked to it in the same way that other businesses link to it. Although the end result would be the same (good product making money for good producers) it would have been much more diplomatic and considerate to the vast majority of people here who come to this place as 'just' a community. Despite the fact that I am seriously in favour of free enterprise and making money, I believe it is entirely inappropriate for a place that presents itself as a community, was established as a community, and as far as participants are concerned is a community, to have a shop opened up directly within it, using its name, which is run for the benefit of only a few. I respectfully implore you to consider placing business activities at 'arm's length' from the user community.

Er, 3DSprite, I don't think you are in a position to call my, or anyone else's, concerns unfounded. I could say that your confidence is unfounded. But, of course, I won't(ish). ;-)

Only time will tell PJF, only time will tell. But I won't play ball with you any more right now cause I'm kinda busy working and helping people and TRYING to make this place nice for folks that like it here ;-) Have a good and fruitful day with whatever it is that makes you happy ;-)

PJF-- What difference does it make where the sight is? I'm a user and I could not possibly care less, and in fact, I kind of like having BBay right here with the familiar set-up of freestuff pages. Also, it seems that the new system makes it easier for people to sell things, who may have never considered selling things before because it was too complicated. I'm kind of inspired to learn how to model now because of all this. If I find the time to go that route, you can bet that not all of what I create will be sellable, but will be giveawayable. It's a boon to the community, rather like putting a 7/11 in the middle of the neighboorhood so when you need milk or smokes you don't even have to get in your car. What does it hurt you or anyone else? Sit back, see how it goes, and if it turns out to be folly, then I'm sure it will go away. -Darth_Logice

well... the renderosity store is for renderosity MEMBERS to (if they choose) offer their goods for sale. it isn't like some outside people are coming in and posting stuff for sale. in other words, i dont see how this store is separate from the community. people from the community contribute to it, and people from the community, who know these other people (after all, they're in the same community) want to be able to get the fine work they know these people put out, the same work they see in the forums, in the gallery, etc etc. why go somewhere else to get the things you see here? it'd be like putting free stuff on another site. (which isn't far-fetched; if free stuff were gone, we'd have to all go to poserworld, propsguild, fairywoods, etc etc etc to get the stuff we saw here.) now, on another note, i think that relatively big store graphic in the middle of the text sidebar is a bit overbearing. :)

and thak you for returning your own reply in just as civil, lucid and in a rather logical form. it is quite the altruistic dilemna is it not? a simple idea planted and passed on. Growing and expanding. reaching limits not thought reached at a speed most unexpected. When the "Idea" becomes a Reality, and therefore must Deal with, and Work within Reality's structures or fall wayside. i quite understand exactly your reasoning as well as your argument. and allow me to ask my pardons for the misunderstanding of your intentions of "clumsy". This was a rushed endeavor, and the only place open to us, was our own/your backyard. Your remark is valid, and as we did with our once adult section, now Renderotica, we perhaps, may do the same with the online store in the future. once again, thank you PJF for taking the time, and consideration to express your views as you have done. thank you. i hope i am not too forward, if at this time, you would grant us some small patience, for at this time, we are but a group of ten, including a one man tech support, who does so WHILE doing is own work, given to him by his employer, for a home that houses 15,000. we are few, and i am in belief that you can comprehend both the physical and mental exhaustion that does come with it. the patience i kindly ask for, is for the time it may take to bring things to a more appreciatible setting for all concerned. We have, in short, a small workshop and very few workers. So we need to keep things together as we all spread our selves thinly to keep this running. to do so, at this time, we will need to keep the Online Store here. Forgive me, but this how it must be for now. Thank you again, PJF for your valued concerns. i look forward to hearing your thoughts and comments and greatly apreciate the time you spend voicing them. ed

oops, nearly forgot ya, bloodsong! SORRY!! the Huge ass banner was made after a week of no sleep and ALOT of frustration fighting with the program to get it to work the way we wished, and downloading and uploading everything. lack of sleep is not a good thing ;)

It really is refreshing to see a debate (with strongly held views on all sides)carried out in a civil, polite, logical and very informative manner. My faith in this place just went up. Congrats to all but particularly PJF for putting your concerns and arguments so clearly and logically and edarsenal for your mature and open response. STORM

Reading and some skimming of this topic has really turned my stomach, I don't like being lumped into the C type of people because I don't have the skills that others do, hence all Consumers are winers. I thought we gave up the name calling, elitism and crud when Willow and her gang left? I for one and totally disgusted with the way you all are behaving. 2ndly, I remember when Everything and I do mean everything, was offered for free. Oh BTW I have brought the odd thing from BBay, and to be honest , was disappointed that I paid $40 for something that still had the same problems the Artist's free stuff had. Personally, I'd like to see a return to the old days, but i dont' see that happening, so shut your trap, stop lumping us into types of users and get on with it! Shae

hello Shae. shut our traps on a Forum???..... hmmm. emotional comment. If i may ask, this skimming you did, was it upon the much smaller abrupt posts? did you, by any chance catch the post directly before you commenting on the politeness of the debate which ensued on the same thread which has turned your stomach?? i, speaking directly for myself, have, in the past, caught snippets of a conversation, and reacted vehementedly to it, only to find, if i had taken a few more moments, chosen my words a little more wisely...... i would not have acted EXACTLY in the manner that i myslef was accused(sp?) of acting. if i may say so, you say it disgusts you that there is name calling. (possibily in this thread?) and proceed to spill vileness and obnoxious comments. see the irony of your post?? you wish respect? show some. need an example, ACTUALLY read the posts between myself and PJF. he spoke his mind with clarity and common courtesy. for this, i returned it. you declare an affront to you directly. Then attack and insult in retalliation. do you see where i am going with this??? ed

Shae has one valid point... Occasionally, the difference between the quality of free stuff and the quality of commercial stuff is negligable. I was shocked to find that some articles of female clothing I purchased had no built-in morph targets. If your model was anything other than standard P4, you were destined for hours of heartbreak in magnet manipulation (with the obligatory "let me just render this real quick before I save...oh shit, it's hung up...(CTLALTDEL) lost it) etc. I would expect a morph-free item in freestuff (often times free stuff DOES have morphs built in...) but not on something I pay for. It should be ready out of the box IMHO. But Shae, THIS thread sickened you??? You have a very weak stomach! Please, have a TUMS courtesy of Darth_Logice.

Darth... I expect that including Morph Targets in a clothing pack would be a nice feature, yes, but there are some (maybe including the modeler) that may not know how to make the morphs (unlikely in most cases) or expect you to know how to use the magenets. No offense, but most of the P4 women I see created by guys have breasts the size of freaking watermellons and god help her if Gravity was installed in P5 allot of guys here would be bummed!! Because the breasts are often times increased 300% of the model size, morphs for that would be... well a pain in the ass. Try this... look at the Store as like a regular store you would drive to and visit.. walk up and down the aisle's check out what's on the rack.. if you don't like it, or need it, don't buy it. Going the the General Store Manager of, say, K-Mart and saying, "OH MY GOD YOUR STORE SUCKS BECAUSE YOU SELL MARTHA STEWERT PRODUCTS!!" is pretty assinine(sp?) and would earn you a pretty weird glare from the store manager. Jack

Wallmart, Kmart, department stores in general have a lot of nice things. They also have a lot of things that I wouldn't even want for free, nevermind buy them! No one is forcing anyone to buy from the store, or even go there, and no one will be angry with you if you never buy there or go there. It is an option, not a must. It is a place for Artists/Creators to offer their hard work who feel their work may be worth a little more than nothing. You may feel differently, so don't buy it. Others may love the stuff and may buy it. So I don't understand the contraversy? MacDonalds still gives away a free toy with their Happy Meals even though folks pay for their food. A lot of times the toy is better than the food! Other times the food is better than the toy! No one is "making" you pay for the food here if you don't want it; it's an option. And you still get to keep the free toy ;-)

I just want to stress that I am not against the store in any possible way, and am happy to see it here. I buy stuff when it looks like something I'd use or if it's something I need RIGHT NOW and can't find anything like it or make it myself (which is everything at this point, that I can't make!) But I agree with Shae in that stuff you pay for should be stuff that is worth the money. I wonder...would it be inconcievable to have a small panel that reviewed items before they go into the store? This would assure only the highest quality items are sold there and would help to keep everything in perspective. Just a thought...I may take it apon myself to review store items for the community..seems there should be SOME sort pre-purchase information before buying something and going.."Aw, shucks, this is a let down..." -Darth_Logice

Caveat emptor. :-) If the 'advertisement' for the product doesn't tell you what you want to know, you could always drop a line to the vendor and ask. Failing that, I offer you my conclusion gained after much experience with interpreting promotional material: if it doesn't say it does it, it most likely doesn't do it! Like certain 'select' stores, the new online store (whether it's here or, preferably, at 'arm's length' ;-)) might choose to operate on a 'standards' basis. They'll most likely do that if it increases their profits - i.e. by consumer demand. Whether to or not is usually a question of quality vs quantity. So you're right to put forward your suggestion, but would have been wiser to start a new thread - most folk have given up on this one! Civil, moi? Arse! :-D

Would it be possible to provide a Comments section for purchasers of store products? This would be helpful for potential buyers. BTW, I don't find the prescence of the store objectionable, and believe that the good old law of supply and demand will prevail in the long run. P.S.... If you are listening Trav, I am still waiting with money in hand for a Vicki version of Fashion Pack #6!! :)) Buck

I wanted to just reassure you all that all items going into the store will be quality tested by the Renderosity staff. We are working to achieve the most efficient means of doing usability testing even as you all fret ;P Just so you know.

Like Bast says, we are working on a standardized review process and quality standard guildlines now. Myself and others of the Renderosity team will be doing the testing, etc. We will post our process and guidelines to the front page and in here when they have been finalized.

Also, please read my new posting above, Store Improvements in Process. Thanks, Bast

A lot of "Travelers" clothing has morph targets ;-)

Anything I ever aim to sell will ALWAYS have morph targets in it, same for what I give away too. That is the thing I am doing, making it morphable... not just making another static statue. Travellers morph targets tutorial has been a boon to this community in that it has enabled many of us who never quite got the process before to step up to this challenge, and I expect to see that most of the advanced artists who have items to contribute for sale or for free will be including morph targets as a matter of course more and more.

Allie-I'm pretty sure the Millie clothes pack I just bought from Zygote has built in morphs (not a whole helluva lot, but still...) Soooooo, who's weird now, weirdo??? ;) -Darth

All of my clothes have at the very least morphs for chest size. Some, like the robes, etc have more morphs then I care t count ;) I will be adding an exact list of what each clothing item has in the way of morphs when I get the chance :)

Allie- Not to ring my own bell, but all my clothing items have had 2 - 3 chest size morphs, how could you not include them? Not like people don't ever use breast morphs! I've also tried to give people other inovations, like virtual shins or built in magnets to handle the problems Poser has with any dress that is longer than the knees. I've also tried to improve on the "style" of the Zygote items. But as I've said before, the current format of the store doesn't really lend itself to divulging details like that, which is why I'm not here.