Hi!

I was wondering if there is a way to inject the DAZ morph for (let's say H3) into a cloth modelled by me?

I mean, i want the cloth to fit Hiro even if i dial in "realistic" morph. Is it possible? Or have i to create a custom morph by adjusting the cloth on Hiro body?

That is a GREAT question!  Bookmarking in hopes of a great answer.

Mmmm you have to model the cloth to fit Hiro first...
As far as i know you can'T  just model a cloth and then make it fit to m3 h3 etc etc by a morph ..

Chris

EDIT put in a importand T in can"T <==

Quote - Mmmm you have to model the cloth to fit Hiro first...
As far as i know you can'T  just model a cloth and then make it fit to m3 h3 etc etc by a morph ..

Chris

EDIT put in a importand T in can"T <==

 

It could be very useful!! But it's not what i ask. ;)

I want to have the same dials for the cloth than for the character. I mean, i want to have the "realistic", "young", "muscular", "stylised" dials for the cloth, as i could fit Hiro even when i morph him in "realistic" let's say...

edit:
I saw that several times in merchant cloths, so it MUST be possible.

vincebagna

Actually that answer is somewhat the same. There is no "magic" way to move the morphs form one of the DAZ or E-F or any other figure into the clothing for them. Rather you have to create the morphs in the clothing to MATCH the appropriate morph in the figure, which can be done in several ways. One (and probably the most detailed/accurate) is to import the clothing model back into a 3d program and model in the appropriate morphs to match, then load them into the Poser fiels.

There are short cuts, I believe that DAZ sells a set of magnets that can be used to morph clothing to match the major V4 morphs. There are also programs like the Wardrobe Wizard and the Tailor that can be used to duplicate the morphs with more or less detail and accuracy, depending on YOUR skill with them. Oh and Neitherworks Studio is known for making magnet sets to match the morphs of most Poser figures.

Once the morphs have been made they can be added to the figure and there are several other programs that can assist you with that, like those sold by Demension 3d in the market place here, or Morph Master ( I believe it's called) soldd at DAZ.

So like I said, unfortunatly there isn't a "magic" way to do this.  Even with the tools I've listed, and others I;m sure I;ve overlooked, it still takes WORK to create each morph in the clothing to match each morph in the base figure. Makes for a bit more repect for the creators that go to that much trouble for their customers and compared to the prices of "REAL" 3d items sold elsewhere, with a LOT less capability a real bargain... Opps sorry for the rant, comes from reading to many anti-Poser threads on other sites, by people who don;t beieve that there is real art and work involved in using Poser, I'll stop now.

mike

mike

trav - I'm not really looking for a "magic" way to do this, i was rather asking for the process the merchants use to do that. I know you are one of them, and your products have different morphs to better fit the character they are made for. So you probably know a lot of this process.

As i am working to be able to do fine modelling cloths, i was asking that to release cloths that people could find convenient, so the morphs dials are very useful here.

i was already thinking that the better way to have several dials morphs that match the character morphs was to create them from scratch, but to make them fitting close enough the character morphs. I just asked to consolidate my first idea.

Morphing brushes, displacement, stretching tweaking pulling yanking nudging smoothig - in an application of your choice.
Poser 7 brushes, wings, zbrush, hexagon, mudbox, silo, 3D studio and many others...
Then bring back to Poser as morphs.

For utilities on bringingmorphs back into Poser, see this thread: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2700251

I'm not aware of any utilities that will transfer morphs for you. 
However, I think Wardrobe Wizard may be able to do some of the above. I purchased it, but didn't get around to trying it.
I did see that the wardrobe wizard will analyze a figure and it's currently dialed morphs. Perhaps it can analyze unmorphed figure vs. dialed morphs and adjust the clothing to fit. I hope it can :)
For the moment, I'm doing it by hand.

I own Phil's WW, but i'm not able to have a clean mesh thereafter :(

So if i hear you, i have to bring Hiro into Hex, model my cloth around him, bring the cloth back to Poser, adjust the bones to make a conforming cloth. Then if i want to make a "realistic" morph for the cloth, i bring "realistic" morphed Hiro into Hex, bring back my cloth, adjust it around morphed Hiro, bring back to Poser like a morph, et voilà????

Wierd, My post is toast. LOL

Nothing to say that would not be repeating what has already been said.

That's what I've been doing :)
Just did that on the blacksmith apron for Apollo, to fit the aprom to Clawshrimp's ranger character. Does take some time!

Damn! Even if i didn't ask for that, i would prefer a "magic" tool though sigh

I've seen that thread. And you talked about Morph Manager. Where could i find that, and would not it be useful for what i want to do?

I've been experimenting with 3D max cloth simulations to see if I can eventually use it to help with fitting, but I didn't get that far yet.

Just read your second post.... I haven't used Morph Manager more then once or twice to start learning it. I noticed that it only translates 'placeholders' for certain morphs, but it doesn't recalculate geometry to fit the clothing to the character. Only helps you sort out which morphs to make for a piece of clothing.

see what Anton says about morph Manager: *"Morph manager can move morphs from one cr2 to another only. **You need to get the morph targets into a cr2 for Morph Manager to work."*When he says: You still need to create the morph targets = it doesn't recalculate geometry to fit the clothing to the character = you have to do pushing, pulling tweaking etc...

Without this geometry, the morph manager gives you a lot of dials named the same way as on the original character, but spinning them does nothing, since there's no 'target geometry' or 'morph targets'.

Yes, therminology gets confuzzing. 'morph' sometimes gets used for a morph dial, sometimes for the morph geometry.
I hope this makes some sense.

Morph manager will transfer morphs from one figure to another figure that has the same mesh cut the same way. eg V3 morphs to SP3/L3/A3. But you can't transfer morphs from a figure to the clothes.

Many have used the clothroom to create clothes morphs.

I thought Netherworks utilities did this - http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/clothing_morphkit_for_hiro_product_18846

trav already mentioned that. I use the V4 version but I find I still need to tweek a bit in a modeling app for best reults.

Anniebel

I mentioned Netherworks in my post. Yes they make magnet sets that will make clothing fit many of the mrohs that come with the figures, but they are a bit generic and the resulting morphs look like it.. They ARE a good starting point to get the clothing into the right general shape, then, for good commercial looking morphs you need to make fine adjustments.

vincebagna

I didn't really take your post as looking for a Magic Morph Maker (altho you'd be surprised at just how many people think that there is or should be one!) and my rant cetainly wasn;t pointed at you! I appologise! I was in a "discussion" on another site about the legitamecy of Poser "art" and just got finished explaining just how much work I put into a poser peice for sale that generally sells for under $20.00 while the person i was in discussion with asks for (and if he was honest) gets $100 PLUS for a static model (NO morphs or rigging) in another "COMMERCIAL" modeller (I use Carrara, which he also laughed at).

Any way, to clarify. I basically have a whole cd of figures that are saved out of Poser with the various morphs set to 1.0 (this includes JCM). After I finish a clothing model and get the rigging working right in poser, I pull each of the various .OBJ files back into my modeller along with the appropriate morphed 'tailor's dummy". Then I push and pull the mesh into the corrected shape to fit the morph. I do try to make it look as realistic as possible.

I used Diemension3D's Poser tools (ADDMORPH) to add the morph to the figure. This is convienient since it can load the morphs accross the grouping lines. In other words I work with the complete object from the geometry files and don;t need to break it up into groups.

Oh I've also recently started using the Poser morph tool a lot.

Need I add that to me at least, the morphing is even harder than the modelling. If you want a more detailed explination of my work flow let me know and I'll be glad to share with anyone that is really interested.

mike

trav - don't apologize, i wasn't upset at all :)
And yes, i will be very interested to know more of how you do that.

By the way, i generally don't load a complete obj of the character into my modeller (i use hex), because it's too heavy to be manipulated like that. I only keep what i need.

i am very interested too for this AddMorph tool. I saw it is sold in a group of other tools, is there a way to have it alone? Or another utility that do the same?

Vince

To elaborate a bit. I take the basic Poser figure, say V3, in poser and set one morph at a time to 1.0 then I exported the figure out with "weld vertices" checked. I saved all of these morphed tailor's dummies for later use. You should also do this for any JCMs incoperated in the figures. V4 and the G2 figures use magnitized morphs to automatically adjust clothing over SOME JCMs but there are still a few that need to be copied even in these figures. I saved all of these morphed dummies to CDs so I would have to do this each time, just pull up the needed morphed figure geometry.

Personally I like to use th whole figure when possible to get a feel for th over all effect. Like I said I;ve been trying to add some realism to the morphs, a wrinkle here or there to enhance the morphs by simulating th way real clothing would fall. There's no reason you have to do this tho.

One thing if you do delete parts of your figure be sure to keep all of the groups affected but the morphs. As they can cross group lines it's important to gettig the right look on your morphed clothing.

Once I have the morphs completed I use the AddMorph tool to install them. I'm sure there are other, similar programs, but I don;t know which they are. As fot the other tools in the tool set, I DO use most of them at one point or another. 

Not to sound like an add but the most frequently used ones are ConCloth which will import the skeleton of a donor CR2 file into your clothing figure if the groups are the same, just like using Posers' Set-Up Room, BUT it strips out most of the unwanted information making for less hand editiing.

the FileRef routine is handy for checking and changing your texture or geometry pointers if you move your folders around. it also changes absolute and relative paths. Most stores require you to use relative paths for geometry and texture pointers.

And, of course the AddMorph routine I use ALL of the time.

For the price this has been one of the best purchases I've made as far as Poser utilities.

mike

Okay guys, I'm drawing a total mind blank on finding the 'addmorph' tool. Anyone have a link to share?

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=37406&Start=31&vendor=288865

Hi Connie, it's part of this collection of tools:

I think i have to go towards AddMorph, because creating all these groups in the object is so... long! LOL

I hate selecting all these polygons!!

Exactly, that's one of the major reasons I use. also I find it easier to model or morphs a WHOLE object, not to mention making it look more realistic. And lineing the points at the edges of 2 groups whenmaking morphs can be REALLY tricky.

mike

Thanks!  
I have no idea why I didn't find it the first time I looked, I couldn't even find the right vendor LOL - User error!  One of theese days I'll confuse my head for my butt, I swear!!!

There is the Tailor and Morph Magic.  Both transfer morphs from figures to clothing. 

I have to put in another vote for the tool collection, and in particular the add morph tool which turned litterally hours of morph loading time into under a minute. the cost of the set was payed back easily the first time I used it. Most merchants I know of do all of their morphing in their modeler of choice (though I know of a few who still use Poser magnets, Xena comes to mind) If you are working in hexagon you will need to go through some extra steps to use it to create morphs. the reason is that hexagon does not have a way of storing .obj bodypart grouping, so when you load a grouped figure into hexagon it will automatically split the figure into its individual bodyparts as seperate objects, which you absolutely do not want when you are creating full body morphs. what you need to do is first load your grouped clothing into UV Mapper, Export a UVS file, then select the whole mesh, and create a new Body group. this will remove all of the bodypart groups. now export the resulting .obj file, this is the file you need to import into Hexagon to create your morphs. when you are done creating a clothing morph export that obj from hexagon, then import it into UV Mapper, and apply that UVS file, this will reapply the bodypart groups to the object, now you export your .obj from uv mapper and you can load it using the add morph tool. I know this is a long drawn out process but unfortunately there are still quite a few modelers which do not preserve grouping properly.

Wow! All that seems to be a hard work!
I use Hex, and i am right now working on a cloth. I'm just making the different bodypart groups, by selecting all the polygons for the proper group, extracting this selection, renaming it as the same group in the character, selecting the polys for another group... Ash! This part of the process is really annoying!!! 

Is there a way to transfer the bodypart groups of a character to a cloth you just finish to model?

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=21081&

> Quote - Wow! All that seems to be a hard work! > I use Hex, and i am right now working on a cloth. I'm just making the different bodypart groups, by selecting all the polygons for the proper group, extracting this selection, renaming it as the same group in the character, selecting the polys for another group... Ash! This part of the process is really annoying!!!  > > Is there a way to transfer the bodypart groups of a character to a cloth you just finish to model?

There is a tool called Auto Group Editor, available here that is supposed to do a good job of automatically grouping clothing. I don't know how good it is though as I do all of my grouping in C4D. I highly recommend you use an external method of grouping, exporting your clothing as whole mesh is far better then combining a split mesh in poser. While poser welds a split mesh automatically, you can occasionally see seams in split meshes. and in addition as I said, full body morphs are better made with unsplit meshes. and yes Poser Clothing making is hard work, there is no doubt about it. And most shortcuts don't really work well for high quality work. Thats why most poser users buy clothing rather then create it themselves, spending $10 to $20 for a package makes more sense financially then working for weeks to create one clothing set. The base modelling is in many ways the easiest and often the fastest part of the process.

Thanks for the link, i'll have a look at that ;)

Conniekat - I know you know well Hex (terrific shoes you made!!!), is there a better way to select polys as a bodypart group than clicking one by one (and faster too...)?

So here is where i am. I just finished to break my cloth into bodypart groups in Hex.

I import it into Poser, it goes right at the good place.

I go to the setup room, and load the same character i used, here Hiro.

But when i go back to the pose room, the shoulders don't fit anymore!

After conforming, it's the same!!!

What did i wrong????

You need to adjust the joint parameters.

Héhé... How do i do that? Could you point me to a tutorial?

To be honest for when I create morphs I don't worry about grouping the morphed object.

When I originally create the clothing I run it thru UVMapper and WELD identical points then store is to the geometries file. IF the .OBJ file is welded then improted into Carrara and morphed AddMorph has no problem adding the morph without the orphed object being grouped. 

If the original .obj file isn't welded first, however you will get a "different" number of vertices" error.

Note ALWAYS work form the model that your .CR2 file calls from. It;s safer that way, to be sure you don't use and earlier version or one with a different "winding order" which will cause that "exploded" look when applying the morph.

Oh I also use AutoGroupEditor when making the original clothing model, another mazzive time and effort saver that is well worth it;s cost.

mike

Whoops misse the last couple of posts! Here's a link to a tut by Dr. Geep on Joint Parameters.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/tutorial/index.php?tutorial_id=639

Another good source of info is Bloodsong (A B. Renders) 's book, Secret of Figure Creation in Poser 5 (and 4).

mike

Thanks for the AutoGroupEditor tip, it's already in my wishlist ;) It will save me a lot of pain...

But i'm still looking for advices about joint parameters, and how they work :(

edit: cross post :P
Thanks a lot!!

I use The Tailor located at Daz http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=3679

Pretty simple to use, load your base figure with the morphs, load your cloting item and then select the morphs you want to add and click ad morph.

works pretty good, just can take up to 10min to add a FBM to an outfit, speeds up if you clear your cache 1st.

I just found a strange thing about my previous problem of shoulders poking through:

just after having load the bone structure for the clothing figure, and going to the pose room, i found that the shoulders and arms of the cloth are not to zero in dials. Why?

And found that if i reset to zero the dials for shoulders and arms, it's fine. But as soon as i apply a pose to the character, it's the same  :(

My Model making process in a nutshell

Load base figure into Max
Create my clothing in max over the abse figure
Test render in max
divide out and rename all my componets (chest/abdomen  etc) in Max and then export as a single OBJ
import into poser at 100% base figure size, and resize to fit the char in poser.
export out of poser as an obj
open UVMapper and create the UV map of the saved obj, make sure the names are appropiate and resave.
Use CR2 editor and open a similar item , I use the purchased catsuit as my base cr2 with all the morph and texture information stripped out.
edit the obj target locations to your new obj.
rename and save the cr2
load the new cr2 into poser, its should now conform.
Resave
open The Tailor
load base figure (the one with the morphs you want to add) and the clothing item 
add the morphs (this can take a few days with my work schedule)
save the CR2 and reload into poser and to set up the morphs into appropiate categories
save
edit the last save in CR2 editor to change absolute paths etc and finalize anythign else that needs to be fixed.
Texture and distribute

have fun

*Use CR2 editor and open a similar item , I use the purchased catsuit as my base cr2 with all the morph and texture information stripped out.
edit the obj target locations to your new obj.
rename and save the cr2
*Could you explain more this part?? What is CR2 editor? And what do you mean by a similar item?

Attached Link: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Bookend-Ohgai/9483/index2.html

ok the reason your shoulders are off, is probably that you modeled your shirt based on Hiro in his default position, not zeroed. you need to always turn off IK and Zero your base figure before saving the figure out to be used as a modeling dummy. cr2 editor is basically a text editor designed specifically for editing Poser files, it compresses things down to a more manageable level. so you don't have to wade through thousands of lines of deltas to find things. one of the nice features is that you can open 2 cr2s side by side and copy and paste from one to the other. but cr2 editor is pretty old, and hasn't seen an update in years, and if you dont find the right version you could well get one of the ones that corrupts files on save. I recommend cr2 Builder instead. It's written along the same lines as cr2 editor but it has far more features, and allows you to edit multiple lines at once which cr2 editor doesn't. Its by one of the japanese creators so some of the features might have you scratching your head for a bit but it is far more versitile then cr2 editor. you can find it at the link above and it's free.

ah sorry I missed your post about the parameters being set, its actually part of the same problem. the base cr2 that you got your joints from is set to load in posed position as I explained above. so when you applied the rig to your shirt it to was set to be posed in the same way, you need to strip out these settings in your cr2. you sould always use a doner that has no such preset pose. thats why people like mertext use a clothing item rather then the base figure. I prefer to use a special prepaired version of the base figure myself but then I know everything that needs to be removed from such to get it to work properly. I highly recommend the ConCloth tool in the Tool Collection mentioned earlier to create clothing cr2s rather then using the setup room. as ConCloth actually uses the base figure but strips out everything your clothing doesnt need only leaving the joints in a zeroed position.

Quote - Use CR2 editor and open a similar item , I use the purchased catsuit as my base cr2 with all the morph and texture information stripped out.
edit the obj target locations to your new obj.
rename and save the cr2Could you explain more this part?? What is CR2 editor? And what do you mean by a similar item?

 

CR2 Editor is an app written by John Stallings I think you can get it here at osity if not this link might help:
http://www.morphography.uk.vu/dlutility.html

What it does is opens up the CR2 in a text based format, you can do this with any text editor but notepad will drive you crazy, it organizes it much more smoothly.

basically it shows all the info that a cr2 contains..the welds the joint params the heirarchy etc, you can open up a cr2 , edit it and then resave it as something new. going into depth on how to use it would requitre much more time than what i have at the moment (seeing that i am at work) but by obtaining it (its free BTW) and messing around a little you will understand it more.

Anyway taking for example the Vicky4 blank and loading it in CR2 editor and then save the blank as something like "v4 base clothing" since the cr2 basically allready has all the welds and joint params all ready set up in it , it saves a crap load of work from having to deal with the set up room, you may still need to do some tweaking. Daz supplies the Blank char just for this purpose so its a nice feature and ensures that you dont violate any copyright issues. For NON distibuted items yiou can use any cr2 but that gets into a grey zone.

also you need to locate the obj target and change it to the new obj. then you can delete unnecessary data, if you do pants for example you do not need to keep all the upper body information. and save the new cr2.

I think there are some tutorials here at Osity about working with cr2 editor, also a few over at DAZ.

OK. Thanks both. I just downloaded this CR2 Editor, and will give it a play around. I hope i will success! ;)

mertext - I really appreciate the time you take to explain me all this stuff. I hope you will get some extra time to explain more about that cr2 editing with perhaps an example. If you could not, i would understand. I don't want to bother you too much. ;)

in the meantime, here's some reading material on cr2's

http://home.carolina.rr.com/kattman/
http://www.zenwareonline.com/
http://rbtwhiz.com/rbtwhiz_ERC.html