@paganeagle2001
Why are you acting so bad in this thread, I read it and every now and then i see a post from you with really mean comments.

Let people that care discuss the matter in peace.....

As I said, all this to make so called "erotic" pics.

Easy enough to put up a list of options for someone else to do the work.

Doubt the OP has the skill to do the work.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I've noticed that too, and it does seem that our friend Richard appears to be exacting revenge on those who got the "Dawn is Live" thread locked. I will only remind him that basicwiz preemptively locked the thread BEFORE it was really necessary.

At least I'm being honest about why they want this version of a 3D mesh.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote: "As I said, all this to make so called "erotic" pics." and if so, nothing's wrong with that.  :P

At least be honest about the reason for wanting the 3D mesh in the first place, read the real reason in The Dawn is live thread.

And I have been kind to just call the pics "erotic".

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

call it porn, if you like. Still : so what ?

As I said, I was being kind.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

No one dare to speak their mind, that is the sad truth.

There were two people in the Dawn thread, one giving good reasons and the other just jumping up and down beause no genitals came with the base and there should have, blah, blah, blah.

They were given a solution, the one involved in the other project, I even wished them luck with it. At least they had rasoning behind them.

The other just coudn't get past the fact that because they want an option "now" that they don't always get that option.

This thread is down to them not getting what they wanted.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

not again, please (*  cute little puppydogs , cute little puppydogs , cute little puppydogs , ...* )

Quote - As I said, I was being kind.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

No, you're acting like a 13 yr. old boy, sniggering off in the corner because someone dared to mention the word S-E-X.

Perhaps it's time to grow up and act like an adult.

I'm not bothered about people making whatever renders they want, but because some mesh appears and you demand that there should be genitals for it as standard, even when the people making it have given their opinions for not having them, is wrong.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I can mention sex, and perhaps the anal morphs that they will also want for their 3D mesh etc. The strap on, vibrators etc.

At least I'm being honest about why they want the mesh.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - I'm not bothered about people making whatever renders they want, but because some mesh appears and you demand that there should be genitals for it as standard, even when the people making it have given their opinions for not having them, is wrong.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Who died and made you the great defender of Dawn's honor?

You've made your opinion known with your juvenile behavior.  We get it.  And, guess what?  A majority of people in this thread have made it abundantly clear that the one who is wrong is YOU.

Just your opinion. All I have said is true.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Wouldn't it be nice if genitals come as standard. So you have guests with children and they come and ask, "what are you doing" and then you cannot show anything on the threat of being seen as a pedophile. Great. People always have a lot of opinions they haven't thought through.

There is no problem.

Just that the people reading the thread may want to know the reasl reason for the 3D mesh.

The other person who had good reasoning in the Dawn is Live thread is working on a project that is similar, I even wished them luck in it.

Just don't try and pass the thread off as something it's not.

If someone want's to make seuxal images, I don't care, just be honest and say that's what you want the mesh for.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Hi vintorix, the thing is that the OP argued that Dawn should have come with genitals as standard.

I mentioned over and over in the other thread that HW3D had made their opinions on that very early on in her development.

Still they went on, it should be there, should be more polys etc.

Now HW3D make it very clear in the thread in the free section and on their FB page, so no one can say they didn't know the situation.

Okay, that's reasoning.

Now, going on about it should be there automatically etc. is not reasoning.

It's like me forcing all new varieties of apple to be square as I don't want them being round. It isn't going to happen.

They were even given a solution from the OP of that other thread, but again, it carried on.

Just because someone want's something does not mean they have a right to it, especially when the original maker has made their points very clear on it.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

For those that want to see the reasoning:-

LINK

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

paganeagle2001,

The people who wants sex so much that they claim genitals as standard is perhaps 0.2% of the members. The real problem is that such a small crowd (and other similar minorities, people with an agenda, etc) again and again succeed to get threads deleted and closed. Because we are not allowed to talk to them. If we were allowed to talk to them as they have deserved there would never be a problem.

Agree, check the link I gave and read on.

I never said they shouldn't have genitals, just gave the reason why HW3D gave,

I even mentioned that other people would probably make them, it was a matter of waiting.

A solution was given that would work until those genitals appeared.

Check through al my responses and you will see that everything I said wasn't flamed, it gave reasonable points.

One person admitted that they would have done some, but it would take quite a bit of time and they didn't want to take that time.

Okay, again it's back to waiting for them to appear.

You cannot force a company that doesn't want to include genitals to do so bcause you want them.

I'll quite happily talk about genitals opennly, not stupid things like "toast" etc.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

You've been honest to a fault, Richard. Now let it go.

So Paganeagle's trying to get this thread locked in revenge for the Dawn thread being locked? Wow.... if that's the case then that's really petty.

No, I'm giving the real reason for the thread.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - As I said, all this to make so called "erotic" pics.

Easy enough to put up a list of options for someone else to do the work.

Doubt the OP has the skill to do the work.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Don't spend a calorie doubting it for a second, I never claimed to have the skills.  If I had the skills, I'd be busy making said model.

You seem to think that my having the necessary skills is a qualification for commenting on what I'd like to see in a figure, and I believe you are insinuating I'm a pedophile.

Good stuff, keep it coming.

Please do NOT put words into my mouth that I have not said.

Have I mentioned anything about children, go back and check and you will find nothing like that.

Just be honest for what you want the mesh for.

If you want to make sex renders then do so, but at least be honest why you want the mesh in the first place.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

What the---??? Pedophile? Where'd he say anything like that? Okay, I'm out of here! I was trying to play peacemaker, but the heck with it. Let the mods do their jobs.

I was trying to leave it alone, but when someone comes out with a statement like that, then I have to respond.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Wow. That escalated fast.

I had no idea I was contributing to a thread about porn. o_0

Not that I care, since I think there's nothing wrong with porn, and the reasoning behind releasing figures that are missing a part of their anatomy doesn't make a lick of sense to me. I also don't think that nudity (even with visible genitals) is automatically porn, or that the creation of porn leads to an inevitable slippery slope to paedophilia, but I guess some people do, and we have to listen to them.

Well, previously I was applauding the release of a new figure, but this has really soured me on her. Just another neuterd Daz barbie lacking body parts for all the same weird reasons that Daz had for releasing hairy chested adult male textures without nipples. Check. I think I'll pass.

Good job on the promotion, folks.

Quote - Quote: "As I said, all this to make so called "erotic" pics." and if so, nothing's wrong with that.  :P

I make about one Erotic Pic per year, the rest of my stuff is tame enough for Renderosity.  Making erotic pics is not the point for me regarding anatomically correct figures.  If I do a nude, I want realism as much as possible and I want the option.

I have often considered that there is a market for 3d animation that is pornographic, but without certain things in place it is almost impossible to make.

When you have a conforming genital or a prop genital, you have probably 1/3 of the available morphs that are stock, let alone all the custom characters and zbrushing etc. and then trying to match up textures or making the prop work around existing textures it's all zany, bat-shit crazy when it should've been there in the first place.

Edit to add:  I made a new thread so that this discussion would NOT BE ABOUT DAWN but (I'll say this passive-aggressively like the person in question is doing) some people insist on keeping it about Dawn. 

Quote - What the---??? Pedophile? Where'd he say anything like that? Okay, I'm out of here! I was trying to play peacemaker, but the heck with it. Let the mods do their jobs.

It's a general, vague insinuation that was carried over from the other thread, unfortunately. 

If you have genitals, the slippery slope inevitably leads to people rendering pedophillia, that is the insinuation being made.

A note:

Any insinuation ws NOT made by me.

I provided the link for people to go and view from the point onwards.

So, please DON'T try and bring me into that one.

People can go and view exactly what I typed, it cannot be edited out, it is there for all to see.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Wow. That escalated fast.

I had no idea I was contributing to a thread about porn. o_0

 

You're not, really, there's just one individual who has his teeth sunk into this thread like a pitbull because this thread came off as a tangent from a thread where it was sort of about that, a bit.

Wrong again, the thread was nothing to do with anything like that.

Use the link given, from a certain point on, it was moved to that idea.

Before that, it had nothing to do with it.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG.

It would be fun to see some Poser porn,  I need a good laugh!

I had the decency to concede that we could take our tangent to a new thread.

You decided to stalk me to the new thread and try to exact some sort of "revenge" I was gone for quite a while in the other thread before it got pre-emptively locked.

I dare suggest your behaviour is not appropriate.  I tried to ignore you in this thread, but others picked up on your unacceptable passive-aggressive behavior and comment became inevitable.

Now I suggest, strongly, that you cease and desist any and all efforts to degrade my character and find something else to do than stalk me in this thread.

I bid you good day.

Quote - It would be fun to see some Poser porn,  I need a good laugh!

 

I have no doubt that if you want to see it, you will definately be able to find it.  Should you embark on that endeavor, I caution you to prepare yourself to be underwhelmed.

Since I was the last one who posted in the Dawn thread before it was locked, I have a suspicion I contributed to the locking of it. While I don't think locking the thread was very justified, I will say that it was not my intentions to get it locked and I apologize if any of my comments there were responsible.

My crits on Dawn have nothing to do with any conceived notion of competition, if that's what anyone is thinking. I dont know if that's the case, but the whole "competition" thing has been thrown out there a few times, some of them seem directed at me but maybe I'm just perceiving it as such. 

Criticising a model to somehow squash competition is just petty. My crits on any project are always a result of expecting a higher level of quality in work than what is commonly seen but that I know is possible, and when such a project is coming from a professional then that bar is set much higher than it would be if it were coming from an amatuer who's still learning.

So how about we redirect this back to to original topic and stop arguing about Dawn and her genitals, or lack there of, before yet another thread is locked?

~Shane 

I'm not stalking anyone.

As to what I have said, it 's all there for people to read, cannot be edited (I like that option here!).

You are the one putting words into others mouths.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Sorry, fellas. I was being sarcastic. :D

Anyway, I did read the other thread. I thought it was hilarious watching folks tell the guy who was complaining about how hard it is to make separate genitals for a figure that the solution was to wait until someone made some -- when he was the guy who makes 'em.

I don't get the hostility to nudity. I really don't. And as for erotic and pornographic uses of Poser content, complaining about that seems like biting the hand that feeds ya. I mean, maybe selling products at Renderotica (or here, if they are clothes that morph open, panties that slip off, bras that unhook -- what do you think they're being used for?) isn't all that profitable, but judging from what's on offer here, I'd guess it's the market that actually pays the bills of most content creators. But I'm willing to be told I'm wrong, and that what really sells is professional/casual clothing and textures without genital details for all those wholesome safe for work renders.

Thank you for at least reading the thread!!!

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote -  

So how about we redirect this back to to original topic and stop arguing about Dawn and her genitals, or lack there of, before yet another thread is locked?

 

~Shane 

I think if we can all agree to ignore stalkers we can do that very well.  Just pretend like those posts aren't there.

Or anyone else that is acting like it's a crime against humanity to have and share critical thoughts.

That said, and going forward, I think we all know that you can't satisfy everyone and that any future figure will no doubt disappoint someone, somewhere.

It doesn't do discussion any good to keep pointing that out. 

On that thought:  how does a modeller make a good nuetral face for morphing?  Is it possible that a neutral face doesn't even look human or defined in any way?

Quote -
On that thought:  how does a modeller make a good nuetral face for morphing?  Is it possible that a neutral face doesn't even look human or defined in any way?

It doesn't matter how neutral you try to make a base model's face, as most any characters based on it will inevitably resemble the base shape to some degree. If you try to make it too generic then you risk losing geometry that is necessary for making it as different as possible.

I think the more important issue is doing your best to make the face as human as possible. If that means picking an attractive model as reference and getting as close to it as you can then that's what you do. But attractiveness is subjective, so I think the best bet is to use reference that is commonly considered attractive - like an actress or some other celebrity. You don't want to make it too specific though, because then you risk locking in certain features that can't really be changed and you definitely dont want to do that. 

Mostly it comes down to experimenting with shapes. Just don't make it look like a blow up doll. 

That's my approach anyway.

~Shane

Quote - > Quote -

On that thought:  how does a modeller make a good nuetral face for morphing?  Is it possible that a neutral face doesn't even look human or defined in any way?

 

It doesn't matter how neutral you try to make a base model's face, as most any characters based on it will inevitably resemble the base shape to some degree. If you try to make it too generic then you risk losing geometry that is necessary for making it as different as possible.

I think the more important issue is doing your best to make the face as human as possible. If that means picking an attractive model as reference and getting as close to it as you can then that's what you do. But attractiveness is subjective, so I think the best bet is to use reference that is commonly considered attractive - like an actress or some other celebrity. You don't want to make it too specific though, because then you risk locking in certain features that can't really be changed and you definitely dont want to do that. 

Mostly it comes down to experimenting with shapes (eta) and having enough geometry to allow for drastic changes. Just don't make it look like a blow up doll. 

That's my approach anyway.

 

~Shane

Quote -
On that thought:  how does a modeller make a good nuetral face for morphing?  Is it possible that a neutral face doesn't even look human or defined in any way?

You can use genesis for a good case study in that. Its a really good figure. Its only (And a biggie) downfall is that they made it DS only.

Also, a great deal depends on the expected average skill of your target content makers. Some can do a lot with a few basics, others need more.

I would probably start with basic figure drawing canons (and proportions)

On that thought:  how does a modeller make a good nuetral face for morphing?  Is it possible that a neutral face doesn't even look human or defined in any way?

Any default face is comprised of distinct features, but I suppose a neutral face wouldn't be too distinct in any way. The nose wouldn't be too large; the chin wouldn't rival Jay Leno: That sort of thing. You could have a very pretty default, or a "good-faced" woman and it wouldn't really affect your ability to make a decent set of face morphs. You will still need to make compensation morphs for any face morph that effects the eyes or mouth area in a major way if you want to retain speech morphs, viable expressions or eyelid morphs without ugly distortions. You can have these automatically triggered with the OpTimes function in your coding.

Yeah, I really wish I was using Genesis and could be happy in DazStudio.  I've really, really tried.  I still try, but I just get so lost in that interface and system. 

Does anyone know what the problem is with breasts?

Every 3rd party figure I have ever tried has strange breasts.  Not so much the default placement, but how they end up grouped and how they end up responding to magnets and quite frequently how morph dials affect them.

Boxy, as I mentioned before, and oddly aligned as if they were sculpted horizontally and all geometric references call from some misangled source that makes magnets orient strangley and pull from strange places.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

To do natural breasts right, you either need a lot of refined sculpting and morphs, or a high end soft body simulation. 

Also, eith breasts, what looks good nude is a nightmare to support with clothing (especially various conversion snd fitting utilities), and what works for clothing is too oversimplified for nudes.

Similar happens with butts, full figured or any other figure with more fleshy parts.. and even muscle behavior when bending limbs. This is still a domain of much higher end 3d programs.

Quick example. http://www.syflex.biz/tut_skin01.html

Quote - The other problem about model beauty is that too many people are shy to say to the creator that the model wip they are showing us is, in fact, scary looking transvestite, so the model is released as a scary looking transvestite.

That happens for two reasons: either you QA team isn't paying attention to that sort of thing or doesn't care (not my job to make subjective decisions) or they get ignored by the people they are giving feedback to on some issues.

But yeah, her face is kinda ugly.