Quote - You can use genesis for a good case study in that. Its a really good figure. Its only (And a biggie) downfall is that they made it DS only.

Yeah, I agree on both points here.  From what I remember of it, base Gene looks just fine.  However, since I can't use it in poser (not going to fight with DSON or any other DAZ "program") I can't use it.

I don't render nudes all that often, but when I do, I want them to look right. It's far more important to me that nudes look anatomically correct than whether a figure has a slightly wonky elbow bend.

I think A3 was and still is a very good base character. The base doesn't look very special, but the figure has a huge range without being tied in to one particular look.

You are right, A3 was fantastic.  Not sure why I don't use her, I guess V4 just came out and I forgot about her, and then S4 replaced them all for me.

Hmm.

Y'know, there is more than one reason to have genitalia than porn. And nudity does not equate to porn. 

1. Dynamic cloth draping: The Uncanny Valley is merciless. and the only people who have no clue about how things drape and hang and deform based on movement over structure are those who have been blind from birth. Everyone else has been seeing it in movies and still art and video and real life since they were born. Example: the troll in Moria in 'Fellowship of the Ring'. He had integrated grapefruits and chubby. Why? Because of that dynamic loincloth. That applies to breasts and the vulvar area. If the structures are not reasonably accurate, d-cloth will not lay or behave correctly.

2. Visual correctness: I animate. And the lack of tackle can be a serious issue, because the pubic area is quite visible when you sit, kneel, bend, walk, stretch, etc. Lack of plumbing stands out. Blatantly. And sure, you can use camera angles and convenient props to cover the naughty section(s). See 'Beowulf fights Grendel' to get an idea of just how contrived and juvenile that kind of dodge is.

3. Motion integration: It sounds simple. Just glue a special prop on and be done with it. Doesn't work. The whole pubic area is elastic, and deforms significantly. And that which is not attached will betray you. Try putting prop coochie on your favorite figure. Scale and translate it to fit a standing arms down pose. Now use Poser Physics to toss and ragdoll. OOOOps. Prop doesn't change as figure does. If the initial kick is sufficient, it overrides the parenting. Imagine, your hard animated figure gets tossed....and Willard's Willie & Bobbie's Bearded Clam(tm) are left hanging in midair. Good for a gag reel; not so good if you are trying to tell a story.

Notice that none of the above involve sex. Just clothing drapes and behaviors in motion that can and will break disbelief.  

guys... he's trying to a: get the thread locked b: provoke you into actions that will get the thread locked.

he likes to promote himself into positions of "authority".. one such is a spokesperson for dawn. he has NO offical capabilty in this. he just decided to do it. it's not the first time, and, mores the pity it won't be the last.

as such, he thinks that talking about genitalia for dawn is bad and must be stopped.

don't fall for it and play his game.  ignore him and carry on.

All so wrong, as usual.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

All valid points Dale.

I can also add to that list, medical reference for diagram and educational purposes. 3D modeling/animation in the medical field is actually a much larger portion of 3D than probably most people realise. Many jobs available there for modelers who understand anatomy, but it's not nearly as exciting a job as working on video games or films, so it tends to go unnoticed or ignored. 

This also pretty much makes the argument about "protecting children in schools from looking at naught bits" invalid due to the extreme push across the US and Canada, (and very likely many of the European countries), for more sex education in schools, starting as young as 1st grade. Much to the objection of many parents across the country of course, but that doesn't matter because parents don't have much of a say in it anymore (unless you can afford private schools), as governments and school boards are making more sex education mandatory and will continue to do so. Objecting to it for personal and/or religious beliefs/preferences/hang-ups won't make it go away.

I bring this up not to turn it into a political or religous debate or anything like that, just making the point because it's just as valid as all the others. If you want to learn more about sex education in schools and how it is changing, I suggest google. (Don't argue about it here tho, cause politics and religion aren't allowed). 

The point is though, because of this move to mandatory education on the subject, I'd think people who are more uncomfortable about the issue would rather their kids see computer generated images of all those parts verses the real deal. You can't teach anyone much of anything about the workings of anatomy when the parts aren't there to demonstrate.

As for those parts behaving properly under clothing, you do have to take into account the majority of the user base in Poser still use conforming clothing, because it's considered to be much easier for the end-user to work with, (pretty much just 2-click load and conform, no worries about how it drapes), even though they rarely produce the same quality end-result as dynamic clothing does. So concessions have to be made, and conforming a pair of pants to a model with dangly bits is pretty damned near impossible to get to work accurately. There are various ways to tackle the issue when designing a figure though, some more practical than others.

~Shane

Quote - All so wrong, as usual.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

nope. all factual, checked and signed off on and based on many months of observation of you. and btw, this thread pointed to for the mods and admins.

all the best

someone that was not born yesterday.

Did I say you were!!! LOL.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Did I say you were!!! LOL.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

oh, so it's all correct then. thank you for confirming you are trying to get the thread closed down. thanks for making it easy.

Sorry folks, I have to reply to a few things, then you can all carry on with your thread:-

Do I want this thread locked? No.

Am I trying to provoke others to get it locked? No.

Am I a spokesperson for Dawn? No.

Is talking about gentials for Dawn is bad? No, check out the other thread, numerous time I said that someone will probably make some.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Again, someone putting words into my mouth that I never said.

The response was to your born yesterday comment.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Meh, just ignore him...as you said, he's an authority on nothing who stalked me into this thread out of some sort of petty, misguided "Revenge"

Have a look at his Dawn renders though in the other thread, they're really good.

If you want to think it's revenge then thats your opinion.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

As normal in this forum, the helpful, respected and established persons takes the beating and odd far out characters with  minority views reigns the scene. Soon the administrator will close this one thread too, with a "you are not behaving" exclamation. As if paganeagle2001 has done anything wrong.

Hey children of the doomed.

Every time you kids get a new toy, you all start yelling like 2 year old bananas in a fruit salade.

**One: on the Geneticals.

**We humans are the only animals that are ashamed of our own body.
We are the only animals to dress up because we do not like or tolerate our own bodies.

Who is smart or stupid???? We humans, or all the other animals????
**
On Dawn.

**Looking closer at the mesh I can not help but think this was build somwhere between V3 and V4.
It has the "genderless" style, and the build technology of that period in time.

So?
Is this toy, that is not all that good at all, worth the fight?

Stop attacking, and for the other side : Stop defending the undefendable.

Quote - 3) Motion integration: It sounds simple. Just glue a special prop on and be done with it. Doesn't work. The whole pubic area is elastic, and deforms significantly. 

Well, that's easy to solve, have it made as a conformer rather then a parented prop.

or:
In DS, you can do a geograft.
In Poser, you can take advantage of geometry switching too.

V3 on top, then V4, then Dawn. NO morphing. This is just the default mesh topology.

V3 allows you to make realistic genitals without any add-ons, V4 at least has enough polygons to make nice "outer bits". With Dawn, I doubt anything but a cumbersome external add-on prop that requires tons of postwork to blend with the hip or a full fledged replacement hip will do.

It's one thing to not add genitals to your figure.

It's another to construct your figure in a way that noone else can.

Quote - One: on the Geneticals.
**
**We humans are the only animals that are ashamed of our own body.
We are the only animals to dress up because we do not like or tolerate our own bodies.

Sorry but that's BS

We dress up because we started to use it as a tool to populate a wide range of climates... tens of thousands of years ago. Not because of shame.

If you know anything about animals, you'll know that plenty reject each other sexually. They often have epic battles surrounding mating rights. Speaking of sex education, kids usually learn that in first few grades of elementary school, or just watching national geographic on tv.

I'm not even trying to talk about Dawn specifically in this thread, but will reference her as an example when it foots the bill.

Vintorix, your assumed authority has no place here, nor does your special little buddy you are so valiant to champion.

I am sick and tired of regular members, like everyone else, trying to be the police here.  Go be with your girlfriend, Dawn and your special little buddy and be happy.  You aren't the boss and your little snipes serve only to annoy and make yourself look bad.  Is that what you want?  You have a lot to offer but you act like a massive toolbag.  If that gets me banned or in trouble, so be it..so tired of not being able to have a fucking conversation here and it's because of douchebags like you, got it?  Now f off

So you want me to leave the thread? Very well, I will be in good company. ;)
All decent society has left long ago.

OH yeah, you're just THE BEST buddy.  Nothing but class, 100%.

Quote - This also pretty much makes the argument about "protecting children in schools from looking at naught bits" invalid due to the extreme push across the US and Canada, (and very likely many of the European countries), for more sex education in schools, starting as young as 1st grade. Much to the objection of many parents across the country of course, but that doesn't matter because parents don't have much of a say in it anymore (unless you can afford private schools), as governments and school boards are making more sex education mandatory and will continue to do so. Objecting to it for personal and/or religious beliefs/preferences/hang-ups won't make it go away.

Sorry, but that;s not quite right, especially in the US. Even here in Caliornia, one of the most liberal states in the country sex related stuff requires paperwork and parental consent. Not because of shame, but because it increase liability by increasing possibility of things going haywire, and some 'adult' misusing it on the children, or on coworkers, creating a sexually abusive situation with a minor, or sexual harrasement problems with a coworker. (I know this close to first hand, my husband is a middle school teacher, and my stepdaughter and her mom are elementary school teachers)

Even art classes where you are studying human anatomy, figure drawing can't be done in nude untill students are over 18.

My understanding is that Hivewire guys didn't want to risk dealing with any business relating liabilities arising from these situations. If I was starting a business, I would likely do the same. Not because of being ashamed of sex or natural anatomy, but because I can't aford risking a potential lawsuit and losing my house or livelihood over it.

Heck, when I was doing architectural visualization, I couldn't even look at useful content at work, because there were so many skimpy outfits and barely covered boobs in the marketplaces across poserdom, that most of it would get me in trouble with 'preventing sexual harrasement in the workplace' manuals.

Hivewire guys made their choice regarding what markets to cater to, and which markets not to cater to. Repeatedly bellyaching about it and knocking it down is not going to help.

As for medical illustration argument, Chris Creek the creator of Dawn is a medical illustrator in his non-3D life. That's what prompted him to found DAZ and Zygote waaay back when. I'm sure he knows hundred times more about that business then Poser forum armchair quarterbacks.

I mean, seriously, if you need a mimic ready VeeJay, Dawn is not your figure, big deal, they already said Dawn is not going to be everything to everynoe. Use another figure. Especially for nudes, you don't have to worry about clothing support. I just donlt see any point of going on about it ad infinitum.

Thanks to JoePublic for posting a pic to illustrate the problem that erogenesis was trying to point out in the other thread, not the fact that Hivewire3D refused to make genitals, but rather that they didn't provide enough polys down there to enable a good enough morph job for Dawn.

Quote - Thanks to JoePublic for posting a pic to illustrate the problem that erogenesis was trying to point out in the other thread, not the fact that Hivewire3D refused to make genitals, but rather that they didn't provide enough polys down there to enable a good enough morph job for Dawn.

In spite of you guys just discovering it, this has never been a secret.

Back to the future:

Should a future figure include genitalia, Is there really a legal leg to stand on that the figure creature made something for pedophillia?  I think not; I think it's a silly paranoid cynical position to take but I'm not lawyer and I know how crazy that stuff can get.

If the figure came with genitalia morph off, so it looks as neutered as some would like, can you be sued if someone on the user end turns that dial to 1?  I dont' think so.

I made a freebs genital morph when V4 first came out and amazingly never got sued.

Is this really a legitimate argument against genitals included with figures?

This is not about Dawn or anything she does or does not contain. I could care less about Dawn. 

Those who continue to make this thread about Dawn are the ones who will get it locked down. 

This thread is about the discussion of how to build an anatomically accurate (geometry and rigging) female figure that is suitable to the widest range of audience possible, which so far has not been accomplished by anyone building figures for Poser. 

So how about we try to keep it to that topic, while leaving specific named figures out of the discussion unless they serve a specific demonstratable for example purpose. 

In terms of education, you're incorrect. Once again I'll refer you to google for further reading on that issue. You can use key words like the U.N. and their stance on it for clarification. 

There are plenty of anatomically accurate 3D models out there, not designed for use in Poser, whose creators have no worries about facing any legal battles because they're doing nothing illegal. They can't control what the end users of their models do with them and can't be held responsible for it. If you can provide multiple examples of cases where the artists were prosecuted for creating anatomically correct figures then by all means do so. Otherwise it is just speculation and paranoia. 

~Shane

Quote - They can't control what the end users of their models do with them and can't be held responsible for it.

It's not the users the various vendors worry about but rather companies like Paypal and such which have rather insane policies regarding anything with even a hint of 'porn.' Some of them will refuse to do business with such vendors or charge outrageous premiums or simply ban your account (and steal your payments.) There are niche companies that don't mind what you do but naturally these are also the same companies that deal with real porn and few Poser vendors wants to be slotted in the same category as 'Hot Bangin Pussy Ranch LLC.'

Voices of Reason, thank you.  That's what I figured.

I wonder how much of the "Paranoia" comes from Daz's Utah origins.  It is statistically safe to assume that some of the early policies, personalities and principals come from a conservative religious platform that permeates that area?

Just wondering if these issues are sort of Puritan/Secularist ultimately.

I too wonder if all of the people who could feasibly make a full human figure with a wider range of enthusiaism (let's say) have already revealed themselves, made their efforts, chosen their teams and this is really all there is?

I can't really imagine the manhours it takes and the skill-level involved.  I've tried modelling free-style...my eye is not that good, I need automation and simulation like what marv provides to model even clothes.

Now is that a thought?  A modelling program whose sole purpose is to make people for poser?  It's way beyond me, but I could see a blender type program whose toolset is specific to human making.

Quote - > Quote - They can't control what the end users of their models do with them and can't be held responsible for it.

It's not the users the various vendors worry about but rather companies like Paypal and such which have rather insane policies regarding anything with even a hint of 'porn.' Some of them will refuse to do business with such vendors or charge outrageous premiums or simply ban your account (and steal your payments.) There are niche companies that don't mind what you do but naturally these are also the same companies that deal with real porn and few Poser vendors wants to be slotted in the same category as 'Hot Bangin Pussy Ranch LLC.'

there's a simple reason for this.. and it's not religion.

Chargebacks.

yup. the sheer amount of chargebacks porn caused made it uneconomical for PP, Visa etc to handle porn in a normal fashion.. hence the policies we now have. it's simplier to throw poser models into the same rules...

Payment processors are a valid concern, I agree.

The obstacle then becomes not putting any emphasis on such parts in ad campaigns, so that you can help to avoid issues that might arise with PayPal and others. As long as the ads aren't sexually themed I don't see PayPal really having much issue with it, or even really noticing it. There are plenty of sexually themed items available here at rosity that paypal doesn't seem to care about, because its done in a tactful enough way to make it seem more "innocent" than it really is.

I guess the safest approach, for the design of the base figure, would be to just include enough geometry in that area for others to build what they want, which is exactly what many have suggested. 

You could even go so far as to actually sculpt/model the correct anatomy, to be sure you have all the geometry needed, and then smooth it all out before rigging.

You could also use geo-swapping - also suggested several times - and make one hip with and one hip without. It's always been acceptable for male figures, there's no logical reason for it not to be acceptable for females, other than pure blatant gender discrimination. 

Personally I tend to run into problems when dealing with the creation end of geo swapping, and it can cause issues in other rigging/morphing areas, but it is one alternative. 

You could also simply offer two versions of the same model, identical in every other aspect, and use the "PG" version for all your ad campaigns. 
 

The thing is, plenty of sexually explicit models and add-ons already exist, and have large customer bases, and payment processors that don't mind, so it can be done. 

~Shane

It all starts with the proper mesh topology.

Rigging can be changed, shapes can be changed, but a given topology is impossible to change without breaking everything.

And so far the best mesh topology in the Poserverse is the 3rd Gen DAZ topology.

Not saying it's perfect, far from it, but there's none all around better and more flexible.

I can model, but I don't have the energy left to build a complete human mesh from scratch. But if I were to, I'd copy the 3rd Gen DAZ mesh as closely as legally possible. Change and improve things here and there of course, but closely follow it's layout.

Another option would be to outright try to licence it for re-distribution. After all, Posette and Dork were made by Zygote/DAZ, too, so maybe DAZ wouldn't mind making some extra money with good ol' V3.

I think a resculpted 3rd gen DAZ mesh equipped with the latest Poser rigging tech would be the best option we currently have to have a fully Poser-compatible mesh that has the widest appeal to the masses.

Or a mesh that is very, very close to it in design philosophy, but this means you have to start from scratch again with everything, and I simply can't see that happen.

At least not if attempted by a single person without huge financial backing.

Quote - > Quote - This also pretty much makes the argument about "protecting children in schools from looking at naught bits" invalid due to the extreme push across the US and Canada, (and very likely many of the European countries), for more sex education in schools, starting as young as 1st grade. Much to the objection of many parents across the country of course, but that doesn't matter because parents don't have much of a say in it anymore (unless you can afford private schools), as governments and school boards are making more sex education mandatory and will continue to do so. Objecting to it for personal and/or religious beliefs/preferences/hang-ups won't make it go away.

Sorry, but that;s not quite right, especially in the US. Even here in Caliornia, one of the most liberal states in the country sex related stuff requires paperwork and parental consent. Not because of shame, but because it increase liability by increasing possibility of things going haywire, and some 'adult' misusing it on the children, or on coworkers, creating a sexually abusive situation with a minor, or sexual harrasement problems with a coworker. (I know this close to first hand, my husband is a middle school teacher, and my stepdaughter and her mom are elementary school teachers)

Even art classes where you are studying human anatomy, figure drawing can't be done in nude untill students are over 18.

My understanding is that Hivewire guys didn't want to risk dealing with any business relating liabilities arising from these situations. If I was starting a business, I would likely do the same. Not because of being ashamed of sex or natural anatomy, but because I can't aford risking a potential lawsuit and losing my house or livelihood over it.

Heck, when I was doing architectural visualization, I couldn't even look at useful content at work, because there were so many skimpy outfits and barely covered boobs in the marketplaces across poserdom, that most of it would get me in trouble with 'preventing sexual harrasement in the workplace' manuals.

Hivewire guys made their choice regarding what markets to cater to, and which markets not to cater to. Repeatedly bellyaching about it and knocking it down is not going to help.

As for medical illustration argument, Chris Creek the creator of Dawn is a medical illustrator in his non-3D life. That's what prompted him to found DAZ and Zygote waaay back when. I'm sure he knows hundred times more about that business then Poser forum armchair quarterbacks.

I mean, seriously, if you need a mimic ready VeeJay, Dawn is not your figure, big deal, they already said Dawn is not going to be everything to everynoe. Use another figure. Especially for nudes, you don't have to worry about clothing support. I just donlt see any point of going on about it ad infinitum.

As a former teacher, I can say you are absolutely spot on, 100% right about this. 

Quote -  

I wonder how much of the "Paranoia" comes from Daz's Utah origins.  It is statistically safe to assume that some of the early policies, personalities and principals come from a conservative religious platform that permeates that area?

I would say pretty much yes. That whole state is completely backwards from just about everywhere else in the country, even moreso than the bible belt, which comprises the majority of the south-eastern states. 

At least that's been my experience with just about everyone I've ever known from there, save a couple who have spent their whole lives trying to scrape together the cash to leave. 

~Shane

What an individual in a particular area/state/community etc thinks is very different then what a business thinks. In my experience most business entities are very pragmatic about what they do and don't really let things like religion or personalities get in the way of making a buck. If DAZ thought they could make a healthy profit from working with explicit content, enough to cover any liabilities they foresee, they would be all over it in a heartbeat, Utah or no Utah.

Quote - "Ya talking about MoCaps.hollywood can aford it."

To me "MoCaps" simply means "motion capture", nothing more.

Are you talking about an actual program?

I'm talking about "motion capture" there's no app that can even come close to motion capture at any price.

one day there make a CGI human with bones muscles etc etc.
but it will be a long time till us hobbyist get anything like that in Poser.

But for just posing stills the brush is great and affordable :)

As far as the legal standing of a company that makes an anotomically correct model that later gets used for illegal purposes. They might not be liable. That's up to the individual judge to tetermine. But that doesn't mean If a teacher ( or whoever) uses an anotomically correct model and a parent (or someone else) decides that it is sexual harassment, or pedophilia, or you name it and decides to take offence, that parent may then sue the teacher for the alledged act, the school for hiring said teacher (assuming it in some way can be involved like it happened at school or that's where the teacher and child met), smith mirco for creating such software (or daz) and the company who made the model because "they didn't have to make it anatomically correct". They wouldn't sue just the teacher because we all know teachers don't have any money. And it wouldn't matter what the outcome is. Often the legal fees and bad publisity can kill a small company. So people cover their behinds by not giving their models proper ones. It's a sad state but that's how thing often work.

The problem with the gen3 meshes are all the tris they include. you'd have to pull them all out and rework the mesh into quads for optimal performace across a wide range of uses. A lot of people today animate and render their poser figures in other software for various reasons, so if you want a figure to appeal to that audience as well, you should at least attempt to make it cross-platform friendly, and that requires all quads. I suspect this is why DAZ went with all quads in the Gen4+ models.

It's also more logical for lower and higher res figures, and if you want to allow the figure to be used in games. If you don't want to allow that, then it's not as necessary.

~Shane

Plan "B" could be to (once again) re-work Vicky 4 and Mike 4.

Yes, I know there is already a nicely weightmapped V4, but the rigging was modified in a way that makes cloth conversion cumbersome.

(This was partly caused due to legal issues)

As the latest DAZ Eula allows encoded redistribution, we could bring V4, M4 and K4 up to the latest "Poser tech" standard without breaking cloth compatibility.

I prefer the 3rd Gen mesh, but the 4th gen mesh is pretty nice, too, and it already is all-quads and comes with several LOD low res versions.

The default could be a new photorealistic sculpt for both V4 and M4, while the original shapes are kept available as morphs for on the fly cloth conversion a-la Genesis.

So merchants could sell new clothes made for the "new" sculpt but Poser users could still make use of their huge V4 investment.

Actually, I'd say this plan could be the most successful one as it would have the broadest appeal to everyone.

This "Poser 10/PP-2014" "V4" would look completely different and "new", yet be backwards compatible with most V4 content as it re-uses the original mesh and joint centers while making use of animateable joint centers for the "new shape".

Same for M4 and K4, of course.

Just thinking out loud here.

it is something to worry about.
While everybody likes artistic nude. . .

In the end, the porn industry might kill apps like Poser and DS.

I asked about genitalia in my thread Rig first then Map ? No responce yet.
But
You all hi jack Bloody's thread.
How about you all Hi Jack my thread and tell me how the porn sites booleaned V4's genitalia in ?

Just an example of what I think a "new", realistic V4 could look like.

Compared to the default shape.

Back on topic: Based on my time here reading the threads I'd say to make a perfect model that will please 100% of the people you would need:

1. an anotomically correct model that has no genetailia because that might cause problems

2. it would need to be very low poly but have enough that it can be morphed from a baby to the hulk (or she-hulk) and Cthulhu too

3. it would need to have only a few mat zones but be able to make any kind of outfit you want from the zones for people who can't afford clothes.

4. it needs to be drop dead gorgeous right out of the box and nuteral enough that you can make it look any way you want (see number 2)

5. It needs to have enough morphs built in that you can make it look like anyone you want but use up almost no memory

6. It needs to use all the latest techknowledgy but be backward compatible with every poser (and ds) still in use

7. be perfectly proportioned based on what art books say and still look right to those what are used to looking at idealized figures of the past

8.  oh and come with a make art button so it always looks good from the newbie on up

Sorry ya'll, I know that last one is a killer and so the model will never come to pass

Hijack on/

"How about you all Hi Jack my thread and tell me how the porn sites booleaned V4's genitalia in ?"

You sculpt the outer bits out of V4's hip mesh, make a cavity, and add the "pink bits" by a morphing prop.

There are other solutions, like a transmapped conforming prop that covers the hip, but the way I described is the most natural looking and user friendly.

For an almost perfect example, do a Google search for Lali's Bits by Erogenisis.

/hijack off.

:-)

Good points Joe, but a reworked V4 has no real monetary value to a figure artist since it can't be resold unless rights to it are purchased from DAZ. as if that's gonna happen. 

GND4 is the closest to a rework (minus the most up to date rigging tech), and after all this time there's still virtually no content for her and you rarely see her used anywhere. 

LOL @RedPhantom.

You forgot being backwards compatible with all the V4 content, and the V3 content, and all the popular content from S-M/E-F

~Shane

Wow, I really like how the V3 family looks in the above pic you posted, Joe!  Those are some of the best poser forms I've seen. 

I like the idea of reworking V3 based on what you've posted there, and that would have the added benefit of an almost clean slate as far as joint corrections and all that stuff goes. 

There are so many competing rig-addons for V4 I'm not sure if I have all of one set installed, or half and half, or two working together to destroy everything.

Sidebar:  All of the sudden I'm getting Dos Attacks and my Keyboard keeps disconnecting itself since shortly after my outburst earlier.  Crazy, huh?

Quote - I asked about genitalia in my thread Rig first then Map ? No responce yet.
But
You all hi jack Bloody's thread.
How about you all Hi Jack my thread and tell me how the porn sites booleaned V4's genitalia in ?

If I understand the question correctly, you would just leave the genitals out.

It takes a bit of careful planning. The most logical approach, if you're modeling a male figure with gens built in, and you want to have a 2nd identical model without the gens, Model and map everything on the with-gens version, then cut the gens off and fill in the hole that's left with new geometry (which will have to be mapped as well, but in such a small area it would take a matter of minutes to map cause everything else is already mapped). 

The gens should still be a separate UV layout from the model (to avoid distortion in that area). 

~Shane

Thanks : JoePublic

I read the Lali's Bits by Erogenisis.
They even recomend you don't do it.
But they where working on anothers mesh having to follow certain rules.

luckly I'm working on my own meshes so I just half to follow Poser rules.

So if you all where making your own mesh one with genitalia ,one with out .

How would you all do that ?

Quote - > Quote - I asked about genitalia in my thread Rig first then Map ? No responce yet.

But
You all hi jack Bloody's thread.
How about you all Hi Jack my thread and tell me how the porn sites booleaned V4's genitalia in ?

 

If I understand the question correctly, you would just leave the genitals out.

It takes a bit of careful planning. The most logical approach, if you're modeling a male figure with gens built in, and you want to have a 2nd identical model without the gens, Model and map everything on the with-gens version, then cut the gens off and fill in the hole that's left with new geometry (which will have to be mapped as well, but in such a small area it would take a matter of minutes to map cause everything else is already mapped). 

The gens should still be a separate UV layout from the model (to avoid distortion in that area). 

 

~Shane

Maps easy enuff.

Will I need to worry about hip ,grion rigs n morphs ?