In a Post-Dawn world, what will tomorrow's figure need to include to really make an impact and stand out from the sea of attempts that already exist?

1.  Articulated Genitalia built-in, not a seperate prop or a lame indentation.  Intricate and realistic from near or afar.

2.  Realistic joints that take advantage of every possible technology to make bending realistic at all times.  Weight maps?  Sure!  JCM corrections?  If need be!  Magnets?  If the other methods fail, and this helps, throw 'em in there.

3.  Morphable face and body.  Do not make the default muscular, emaciated, fat...just genercially shapely and proportionate and keep the sharp chiseled features out of the face.  Recent default character faces look like the eye/brow/bridge connections were created with boolean cut outs they are so angular and sharp!  Gonna take some powerful morphs to get rid of that stuff without screwing up eyelids etc.

4.  Morphs.  All of 'em.  Launch with all of them. 

5.  Breasts.  Every third party attempt at the breast area disappoints, always.  Boxy, centered in the wrong place, morphs look floaty and are unrealistic at the top and bottom.  Looks like man breasts that got inflated.

That's enough to get started, there are more.

So what is a company going to make money on if all that is provided for free?

 I like your general idea-but "Brilliantest" Winterclaw has a point.

This was actually meant for the "Dawn is live" thread, but I guess it'll fit here even better:

William_the_Bloody wrote:

New figures are becoming ubiquitous these days, the standout figure that will capture the attention of the entire community will be one that:

Has no bending issues

Has realistic expressions

Has a neutral face and neutral body shape for maximum individualization

Has all expected morphs and more

Has Genitals out-of-the-box and built in to the geometry

I can't think of anything else to add, these few things are all that is required.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=4045684&ebot_calc_page#message_4045684

Well, that's pretty much what I was trying to achieve with David3-WM.

At this time, I rather don't comment on DAWN, but I'll list the reasons why I based my work on David 3:

1. Neutral shape: Load Genesis and load David 3 and you'll notice their shapes are very similar. So David makes the ideal base figure for both males as well as females, for both adults as well as children.

Remember all 3rd Gen DAZ figures are the exact same mesh.

1. Detailed topology: You can only morph a mesh as far as the geometry allows. David's muscle morphs are still unsurpassed, thanks to all the anatomical correct edgelooping built right into the mesh.

2. Flexibility: Thanks to #1 and #2, the David 3 mesh can be morphed into anything imaginable. Lots of high quality morphs and expressions already exist and thanks to it's "simple" grouping, it's very easy to make custom morphs. You can easily "mix and match" existing shapes like Freak, Maddie, Aiko 3, SP3, etc"

3. Support: Lots of clothing and textures already exist or can easily be converted because the grouping is identical.

4. Realism: David 3 and SP3 are DAZ' most realistically proportioned figures out of the box. So even though proportions can be easily adjusted in Poser, the changes required to cover a whole range of realistic bodytypes are minimal. As rigging is always "tied" to a given bodyshape, the less you have to deviate from the default shape, the better.

5. The rigging: Rigging is three parts: Mesh grouping, joint center placement and joint deformation (weightmapping)

I found that David 3's "simple" standard grouping was more than enough for the full range of human motions. The joint centers were already placed in the anatomically correct positions, so the only thing I really had to do was weightmap the joints for realistic results, which made existing cloth conversion easier. While most improvements were done with careful bulge mapping I still added a single JCM for the buttocks to get better deformations in crouching/spread poses. My "personal" figures use a few more JCMs even if it makes cloth conversion a bit harder, but then I want my figures to have the most realistic joints possible.

1. Genitals: The "official" David3-WM can use the standard DAZ genital or the various 3rd party genitals.  For my "personal" copys I attached the genital permanently by simply adding them as a new bodypart to the rigging. (If it's not needed I simply make it invisible)

The DAZ 3rd Gen mesh has the most "crotch-polygons" of all meshes, so sculpting female genitals is no problem. But I already experimented with adding more detailed "female inner parts" permanently via an extra bodypart while sculpting only the outer bits from the hip mesh for added realism.

So far the anus is a parented prop, but could also easily be made a permanent bodypart, although again the 3rd Gen DAZ mesh is dense enough for some simple "rear plumbing".

1. Simplicity: I already mentioned the "primitive" grouping without additional bodyparts. With careful weightmapping/JCMs it's more than enough for realistic bends, but it doesn't break as easily as more complicated rigs. There is also the "bear skin" mapping that allows easy texturing even without costly 3D-painting tools.

2. Expendability: While I personally prefer standalone figures for optimum rigging and performance, David3-WM could easily be used as the start for a "Poser-Genesis" project. I already mentioned how close he is in dimension/appearance to the original Genesis.

ColorCurvator already made a clever little script that does all the work for you, so any existing 3rd Gen shape as well as any morphs that are derived from the base shape can be integrated Genesis-style into the base cr2.

Load David, flip a dial and you have Matt. Or M3. Or SP3. Or Laura. Or mix and match them into a new shape. Or add your own custom made shapes.

Again, except for the geografting (Which could easily be replaced by geometry switching), we now can do everything with a figure in PP-2014 what Studio 4.6 can, so why not use that new tech to make our art better ?

My goal is more realism and more diversity while minimising effort, and now you know why I choose exactly "that" figure and will most likely keep on using it as the basis of my work for the foreseeable future.

My point is: Use whatever figure you want to use, but this is what's technically possible.

You have to decide yourself if you want all what is possible, or if "good enough" is, well, good enough for you. 

:-)

Quote - So what is a company going to make money on if all that is provided for free?

I don't think that anything/everything should be free.  If you make it awesome, people will pay, and those that can't will find it elsewhere and maybe buy add-ons etc.

Hell, even pirates might make something for sale that someone will see, think it's awesome, and therefore circle back and buy the base model.

That said, it shouldn't be priced out of basic accessibility to the community.

"So what is a company going to make money on if all that is provided for free?"

Who says such a figure should be free ?

Posette originally was several hundred dollars when sold by Zygote.

Even V2 and V3 were originally really expensive. But DAZ still made a profit.

The thing is:

Does a "high end Poser market" exist ?

Are there Poser users out there willing to pay real money for top notch figures ? (And clothing ?)

Or are we forever stuck with cheaply made figures and cheaply made clothing so that the masses can have lots of $1.99 content ?

Why shouldn't both markets be able to co-exist like in the real world where you can buy a VW or you can buy a Ferrari.

Upps, that should be of course "extendibility" instead of "expendability" under #9 in my original post.

Sorry, not my native language.

:-)

"Why shouldn't both markets be able to co-exist like in the real world where you can buy a VW or you can buy a Ferrari."

Depends on the prices for oil, gas, tires etc. I think a lot of people would buy a high-end figure if the associated content was no more expensive than what they're accustomed to. Probably not so many going to pay Ferrari prices for clothing etc, as well. If she could use everything existing I think she might be very successful.

I'm interested to see hoe Miss Sunshine will do. Until then, seems a bit premature to talk about YAVK (Yet Another Vickie Killer). If she falls flat, maybe it's time to see on the wall, the writing. Personally, I'v lost excitement for more generic everything figures. Maybe that's why I've gravitated to 'toons, they're usually distinctive. I think that is part of Miki's appeal as well. 

I understand the appeal of the super mesh concept but I guess I reached the age of nostalgia for simpler things. It seems like everyone wants to make another Avatar and not som much the smaller character driven independent films so to speak. I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have two or three unique figures than one to conquer them all, but I do not a market make. I do like the Generation 3 figures thiugh and I think that is a sweet spot in terms of mesh load. Protea for $100-120 vs. a good Aiko Asian/anime type, an older female, and a teen/girl or maybe a good African type at $40 each, maybe I'm just contrary - probably am :-)

Quote - In a Post-Dawn world, what will tomorrow's figure need to include to really make an impact and stand out from the sea of attempts that already exist?

Be accepted by the widest range of users in this community, this is a trick beyond technology.

Some of the details you are putting on the list would make it a nightmare to support the figure with clothes. They are cool if you want to make a perfect nude, however, that gives her a limited target audience.

It'll never work, too many people will argue about it.

Plus when will you bring it out, or are you wanting others to do all the hard work.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

What exactly do you mean by no bending issues?
As long as it's a 3D mesh, it will have bending issues of one sort of another, even in much more powerful programs then Poser or DS. It is inherent to the technology.

Just buy a magazine and take it to a private corner. Saves making a 3D mesh.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Just buy a magazine and take it to a private corner. Saves making a 3D mesh.

diet coke spew    
      ROTFL

I'm surprized noone suggested jiggle-bones yet. 

Why should it be free?

If it's a good figure with all of these features and a really solid base to build on there's no reason for it to be free.

@ Winterclaw.
Whenever the words "company"  or "money" get involved, you might as well stop there.
Money and company are the best ways to destroy :
*** "Passion for quality". and replace it with "Least amount of work for the most income."***

A good figure you ask??

The first key word should be : "Passion" from an individual.

The second key words should be : "End User Friendly".

• fully welded
• fully symmetrical
• as few groups as practically-possible
• as few material zones as practically-possible. Why was, and IS Posette still so popular???? She is single map. Does that not ring a bell?
  Poser supports 8192x8192 maps. There is plenty of room to put everything on a single map.
  But everbody seems to have forgotten how "end user friendly" single map actually is.

Poly count? Reasonable and justified by muscle definition.

• Polygon flow and polygon distribution is far more important then brute poly count.
• Polygon count HAS to be justified by muscle and body topology.

Looks?
Please let is be human and pleasing to the eye at first sight and at first render.
If the end user has to work an hr to get something close to the promo pictures? => F O R G E T   I T .

If a new figure does not make the end user smile at first sight-opening? => F O R G E T   I T .

You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Never-Ever-

Morphs, facial and body HAVE to be included.

The money?
Build a good figure, the money will come automatically from the support files; Hair, clothes, shoes.

Ask money for the morphs??? Some people will buy them, most won't.

Some end users will go to Hex, Blender Zbrush, and make their own.

=> These potential customers are lost, and can not buy your clothing any more.

It will not fit their custom characters any more anyway.

Any one else hear shuffling???

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

All I read here is: "End user friendly".

Took me 5 minutes to turn original Aiko 3 into an "alter ego" of David-3WM

Picture shows David-3WM with "Aiko 3" set to 0%, 50% and 100%.

Kleenex anyone?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

The only difference between both figures is still a single dial spin.

Isn't technology great ?

:-)

Make a good, attractive figure with good morphs, and free won't have to be an option.  Something that's really good, the money will come as long as it's reasonable.

Doric.

Won't only be the money....... LOL.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Won't only be the money....... LOL.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

You're not funny, and you're not helping.  These folks deserve the opportunity to have their say.  Let them.  Take your childish behavior out of the equation.

I think I will hang around.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - @ Winterclaw.
Whenever the words "company"  or "money" get involved, you might as well stop there.
Money and company are the best ways to destroy :
*** "Passion for quality". and replace it with "Least amount of work for the most income."***

 

I disagree.  I think you can have a company that produces quality.  Once a company realizes there is money to be made in producing valuable and desirable things, they'll make the item if they can get a profit out of it.  The best examples I can think of is a rolex or italian sports cars (supposedly gulfsteams too).  Even on the lower end scale, Five Guys produces better burgers than a McDonalds or Burger King.  Or look at Magic the Gathering, a bit of money is involved in playing cards but there are a lot of people who are passionate there making that game (same can't be said for the DnD division).

Don't get me wrong, I think you can see good things for cheap or overpriced crap, but I don't think money necessarily has to destroy passion or quality.  Sure you've got companies like EA that suck the soul out of everything they touch, but I think that was more a conscious decision on their part.

Hobbies are great, but a man's got to eat.

Quote - In a Post-Dawn world, what will tomorrow's figure need to include to really make an impact and stand out from the sea of attempts that already exist?

People are going to find problems with almost all of those points,  William, no matter how good you think they are.

1.  Articulated Genitalia built-in, not a seperate prop or a lame indentation.  Intricate and realistic from near or afar.

This just isn't for everybody. Either a seperate prop us needed, or someway to turn the genitalia on or off.  I never model a male's clothing with the Gentalia attached, but I do think there should be a "package/bump" in the crotch area. I never did like how Apollo's genitalia had to be made invisible which left a big hole in his crotch area.

As for women's genitalia, if you really want it to be articulated/realistic maybe someone would be willing to make a second more expensive version for people who need this sort of detail.

 2.  Realistic joints that take advantage of every possible technology to make bending realistic at all times.  Weight maps?  Sure!  JCM corrections?  If need be!  Magnets?  If the other methods fail, and this helps, throw 'em in there.

All well and good, but mostly depends on the technology used and the skill of the rigger. You're never going to please everybody.

3.  Morphable face and body.  Do not make the default muscular, emaciated, fat...just genercially shapely and proportionate and keep the sharp chiseled features out of the face.  Recent default character faces look like the eye/brow/bridge connections were created with boolean cut outs they are so angular and sharp!  Gonna take some powerful morphs to get rid of that stuff without screwing up eyelids etc.

Once again, a matter of individual taste and preference. You're not going to please everyone.

**4.  Morphs.  All of 'em.  Launch with all of them. **

That's going to be a real memory hog. If I recall correctly, reducing memory usage was the main reason DAZ made a seperate morph package in the first place.

5.  Breasts.  Every third party attempt at the breast area disappoints, always.  Boxy, centered in the wrong place, morphs look floaty and are unrealistic at the top and bottom.  Looks like man breasts that got inflated.

You don't like the original and you don't like the attempts to fix them. Kind of speaks for it self don't it?

Honestly, I think the only way for anyone to make a really successful character is one that is backed by a company, with many vendors committed to the support of that character. There have been many good usable figures that have lain on shelves and got dusty for lack of support. Anastasia is an amazing re-work of Alyson2, but has not recieved a lot of support. I love Miki 4, who also does not recieve a lot of attention, and yes I am also now a Dawnophile.

It seems you are worried about disappointing people, but as Eclark said, tastes are very individualistic and therefore nothing you ever do will please everyone. The creation of a new figure is an enormous undertaking that will consume a lot of your time, so I think the best advice anyone can give you is to create first for yourself. Let your muse be  your guide, not the wants and desires of others. Put your passion into your character, but expect your character to be criticized and raked over the coals the way every single new figure is, not because he/she will deserve it, but because people find it easier to find flaws than to find the beauty, which is a very sad thing. I hate to see artists and their work treated this way. I think it is easy for people to criticize the long hours of labor that someone else undertook without thinking about the way those people feel about their creation. Good luck.

I have JoePublic's D3 and V3 weightmapped figures. They are really good. With a Poserworld membership, I have clothes to last a lifetime. Also a number of morphs and textures available.

Like AetherDream says, we have really good characters, but no vendors support them. Rex and Roxie, made by the creator of Miki 4 are also good, but have little support. That is a real shame.

Anastasia has more support than most. I have probably more than a dozen outfits, with a good variety. But that market dried up pretty fast.

I got tired of V4. Apparently, so are a number of vendors and customers. I don't use V4, and buy or scrounge whatever I can for other. Working on Blender, but slow going.

Quote - Honestly, I think the only way for anyone to make a really successful character is one that is backed by a company, with many vendors committed to the support of that character. There have been many good usable figures that have lain on shelves and got dusty for lack of support. Anastasia is an amazing re-work of Alyson2, but has not recieved a lot of support. I love Miki 4, who also does not recieve a lot of attention, and yes I am also now a Dawnophile.

It seems you are worried about disappointing people, but as Eclark said, tastes are very individualistic and therefore nothing you ever do will please everyone. The creation of a new figure is an enormous undertaking that will consume a lot of your time, so I think the best advice anyone can give you is to create first for yourself. Let your muse be  your guide, not the wants and desires of others. Put your passion into your character, but expect your character to be criticized and raked over the coals the way every single new figure is, not because he/she will deserve it, but because people find it easier to find flaws than to find the beauty, which is a very sad thing. I hate to see artists and their work treated this way. I think it is easy for people to criticize the long hours of labor that someone else undertook without thinking about the way those people feel about their creation. Good luck.

Very valid points, and I agree. It's just that when you're trying to create a figure that you intend to be used by a lot of other people, (especially other people who are not as technically savy about the inner workings of a figure and what it takes to build one), you have to listen to your intended audience and their requests/demands. Its not possible to meet every request, or make a figure that will suit the needs or likes of everyone out there, but the more of it you can include within the limitations of the software it's designed for, the better off you're going to be in the end, and the wider of an audience/customer base you'll have. 

I feel bad (sometimes) about being so vocally critical about other figures because it always gets interpreted as bashing someone else's hard work, when that's not the intention at all. I know first hand how much of a challenge it is to build a quality figure, but when I see the same short-comings being repeated over and over with every new figure, it gets irritating, and I can't help but ask why. Why bother doing what has already been done in various itterations, instead of taking the extra steps to first - analyze everything that's already available, look at what works with them, and what doesn't, and push yourself to make yours that much better, in all aspects, not just one or the other, this or that. If it's just a rehashing, then what's the point? Just so you can say you have a figure out there too? All that does is add to the dust pile. 

When you're working as an artist who intends to make a living from your work, then sometimes your muse has to take a back seat to your customer base. Paid artists rarely get to do what they want to do, they have to do what pays them, so they can eat, and their free time can be spent listening to their inner muse and making whimsical stuff that appeals to only them. It's the trade-off for living as an artist, instead of living as a wage slave. I don't think anyone around here bashes figures just for the sake of being mean or negative. 

It also seems that a lot of figures are abandoned by their creators once they're finished with the innitial figure. How many of them go back and continue releasing content for their figure on a regular basis? I'm not talking about a set of bra and panties, or pumps a couple weeks after release here. I mean actual consistant content support from the figure creator, at least something new once a month if not more. Add-on content is not that difficult to make, and doesn't take nearly as long as it does to build the actual figure. Plus, the creator isn't restricted by EULAs that make them jump through hoops to support their own figure. If you're not willing to support your own figure full time, then how can you expect other vendors to do so? Creating the figure is just the first step. Abandoning it afterwards and moving on to something else unrelated, begs the question why did you bother to do it in the first place? 

3D content creation is a full time job. Actually its more like 2 or 3 full time jobs if you intend to make it your living. There is not a lot of time for much else outside of it. This is true whether you're making content for a niche market like Poser or you're working in a big film or game studio. 3D artists rarely get to experience much free time. It's a lot like working surgeons or lawyers hours. But again, that's one of the trade-offs for being able to make your living as an artist instead of a wage slave. You have to love what you do and be able to do it pretty much day in and day out without getting burned out, otherwise you'll learn to hate it very quickly. 

I think one big thing for making a figure more successful is opening it up to content creation beyond the unreasonably restrictive EULAs Poser users are forced to deal with. Why can't add-on content use geometry from the base figure? There's no sense in it, only greed. Build a figure whose primary intention is for its users to build add-on content for, but then place all these restrictions on how they're allowed to go about making content for your figure, and what parts they can use and not use. As long as the content is designed to work with THAT figure, and not being taken to support other figures, then any part of that figure that needs to be used should be allowed to be used, as long as the need is valid, at the very least. Especially with simple crap like scull caps for hair. Not allowing that is just being greedy and asinine. 

~Shane

Good luck to anyone seeking to make a living from creating an original Poser figure and the content for it. I haven't seen that happen, ever. Poser people love the mystique of the brand name "Daz", and the people associated with it. They have never swarmed to support an independent figure past the initial shiny phase. The Poser user base is set in its ways. Everyone is concerned about the next generation Poser figure, but I wonder if there will be a next generation of Poser users?

Here's my list:

. Come with at least an attempt at decent topology. No, you don't need hard cuts for every thing in your mesh, that just makes it a nightmare to morph into shapes that are significantly different then the default. No you don't need to add thousands of polys just to round out some forms, that's what SubDs are for. And if you really can't survive without tris, at least put them in out of the way places, not smack in the middle of high deform areas like the cheek, knee or shoulder.

. Have a decent base texture. No I don't expect a really high end 8k texture that takes a month to paint, but how about taking a little time to do some basic leveling and painting out some of the speculars and shadows. And if the only way you know how to do a bump/specular map is by desaturating the color map, please don't bother doing a separate file for it, do it in the mat room. No one is impressed by feature fluffing.

. Stop reinventing the god drat UV wheel. V4 UVs have a bunch of textures and are supported by Genesis as well. Stick to those so that I can use all the textures I have carefully bought over a number of years. That's an incentive for me to use your figure right there. If you force me to start over with all new textures i'm probably not gonna bother with your figure at all.

. How about some effort in actually doing a modern Poser figure, rather then just cursory nods in that direction. Poser right now has SubDs, SSS, IDL, weight mapping, decent dynamic cloth, can do texture resizing on the fly... Over the years many of us have modified workflows to take advantage of all this or are using software and content that gives us these features and we expect a new figure to work well in this environment. The days of everyone doing crap ass renders in firefly are long gone.

Quote -
. Stop reinventing the god drat UV wheel. V4 UVs have a bunch of textures and are supported by Genesis as well. Stick to those so that I can use all the textures I have carefully bought over a number of years. That's an incentive for me to use your figure right there. If you force me to start over with all new textures i'm probably not gonna bother with your figure at all.

That'd be a copyright problem, especially the way DAZ is about 'protecting their intellectual property' when it comes to any even remotely competetive figures.

William_the_Bloody

Your never make 10 people happy much less a million.
Do what you want to do ,make what you want your mesh to be.

Some might love it some might hate it ,all that matters is if your happy with your mesh.

Quote - Here's my list:

. Stop reinventing the god drat UV wheel. V4 UVs have a bunch of textures and are supported by Genesis as well. Stick to those so that I can use all the textures I have carefully bought over a number of years. That's an incentive for me to use your figure right there. If you force me to start over with all new textures i'm probably not gonna bother with your figure at all.

Ok I agree with everything you stated except this part. And I think this needs to be cleared up by the community as a whole because it's a common request, and quite valid of course. While texture sharing would be awesome, it is best left up to a 3rd party script or utility that can convert V4 textures to another figure. If the figure uses anything proprietary from V4 - even a UV layout - it could risk facing legal issues from DAZ. Unless you have something in writing granting express permission to base your UVs on thier UVs then it is too much of a legal gray area for just about anyone, from the single starving artist to Smith-Mirco, to risk. UVs are just as proprietary as the model itself, or the textures and morphs that it comes with. It would be a lot like copying blue prints, and legally could be seen as no different than taking a portion of the geometry and using it in your own model. 

While the geometry is not the same, in order for the texture maps to be shared, the new model's UVs have to be laid out so that they line up as precisely as possible to the "donor" model's UVs, otherwise the textures won't line up and you'll have bad gapping in all your maps.

10 years ago it may not have been such a big deal, but today there are utilities that can convert 2D UV maps to 3D models, with varying degrees of accuracy. 

Add to that, when you lay out your UV maps in a way that is not natural to the model they correspond to, it is inevitable that you will get stretching where you don't want it. When you're using a program like ZBrush to do direct 3D painting, its really not a big deal because 3D painting will distort itself to lay properly on the 2D UV map, in order to look accurate on the 3D model, but most Poser texture artists are still using 2D software like Photoshop to paint textures, and will find it virtually impossible to fix areas of stretching in very obvious places. This will inevitably decrease the quality of original textures made for that model. The same will happen in any normal, displacement, bump, etc maps. UV's are intended to reflect the size and shape of every polygon on the model as accurately as possible in order to display texture properly. When you stretch them out of shape to fit another shape, you will get stretching. As it is there is going to be stretching anyway where the map is forced to lay flat while the model's geometry curves - especially along seam lines. So it's always your goal to minimize stretching and distortion as much as possible. Along with that, it is a hell of a lot more challenging than just laying out the model's UVs in their natural state - which can be challenging enough on its own. 

So in short, by asking a figure artist to make their model's UV maps backward-compatible with V4, you are essentially asking them to :

1 - Risk facing legal challenges from DAZ

2 - Diminish the quality of their work in order to force in someone else's work, (which also will not display properly on the model because they weren't designed for that model), just to save you money. 

That's not intended to sound rude or dickish, but that's really what you're requesting. 

It doesn't matter that it's been done with Judy and other figures in the past. That doesn't make it any less of a risk for the artist. It just means no one has cared enough to make a stink about it so far, and those who use those other figures have benefited from it.

Don't get me wrong tho, it is a great idea, and I was going to take that approach with the figures I've been working on. Imagine all the content that would be available for it at launch, making that many more potential customers, but DAZ's EULA is not specific enough to make me feel comfortable with it on pretty much any level. 

Even if DAZ did grant that permission, there's still the issue of diminishing the quality in order to force work designed for another model. 

I think a more reasonable request is to pick one style of UV and stick with it through all subsequent generations of that model, should there be any. It would still result in distortion if the geometry is very much different, but there would be no legal threat looming on the horizon because its all your own original work. 

Apologies for this being so long-winded but I thought I should try to explain why this is ultimately not a good idea, for those who might not understand why it's not being done with pretty much any commercially released figure. 

Hopefully some day Poser will incorporate tech that makes this less of an issue, but it will never correct stretching and distortion and will pretty much always make any new textures lower quality than they could be. 

~Shane

Honestly, the perfect Poser/DAZ Studio figure would require some software other than Poser/DAZ Studio. It would work on a completely different method of creating poseable figures.

It would probably be one that doesn't treat figures as hollow shells to be stretched, scaled and twisted. It would be one where you build the figure in the program rather than importing it from another program. It would be one that uses real scalable bones that rotate and are covered with scalable muscles that stretch and connect to the bones. Over the top of that would be fat that can be scupted be the user. The whole thing would be covered by stretchy skin that adheres to the stretchy layer of fat and "semi-floats" over the top of everything else. Oh, and there would be self-collision everywhere so the squishy parts can properly squish into each other. Materials would all be procedurals rather than bit maps.

In other words, it would be capable of making a real virtual figure. (how's that for an oxymoron!)

Alas, if such a program actually does exist, it's probably one only God can afford...

Quote - Honestly, the perfect Poser/DAZ Studio figure would require some software other than Poser/DAZ Studio. It would work on a completely different method of creating poseable figures.

It would probably be one that doesn't treat figures as hollow shells to be stretched, scaled and twisted. It would be one where you build the figure in the program rather than importing it from another program. It would be one that uses real scalable bones that rotate and are covered with scalable muscles that stretch and connect to the bones. Over the top of that would be fat that can be scupted be the user. The whole thing would be covered by stretchy skin that adheres to the stretchy layer of fat and "semi-floats" over the top of everything else. Oh, and there would be self-collision everywhere so the squishy parts can properly squish into each other. Materials would all be procedurals rather than bit maps.

In other words, it would be capable of making a real virtual figure. (how's that for an oxymoron!)

Alas, if such a program actually does exist, it's probably one only God can afford...

Ya talking about MoCaps.hollywood can aford it.

"Ya talking about MoCaps.hollywood can aford it."

To me "MoCaps" simply means "motion capture", nothing more.

Are you talking about an actual program?

William_the_Bloody,

You forget the most important thing, she must be beautiful, your model must be beautiful.
The world is full of proficient engineers with no taste, style or understanding of art.

Dawn will be successful, because she is made by an great artist. Its as simple as that.

@ Vintorix

"Dawn will be successful, because she is made by an great artist. Its as simple as that".

And what exactly does that have to do with quality?

We get a genderless torso with arms and legs, and 2 airbags that do not deserve the word breasts.

Strange grouping and stranger material zones, tris in a 2013 mesh.
None of this reflects "quality" in my book.

Again, for 36.000 k???????  "DO" something with your polygons.

vilters,

I can explain it to you but first let us take this discussion elsewhere, as we are not allowed to say what we want in this forum. But the short version is, "All models that is great art wont always be good Poser figures but without art the model has no chance whatsoever".

Above all the model must be more beautiful than its predecessor.

Attached Link: http://irit.fr/~Rodolphe.Vaillant/?e=31

After using the "new" mesh, don't forget to wash your hands!!

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Well, don't get me wrong. Maybe you'll create a real beauty, or you'll do it just because of the fun of creating. I just don't think, we will have a technical improvement. :)

"I just don't think, we will have a technical improvement" ;)

And for the technical side of it I am not sure of Mr Creek's qualifications except for one thing: I am sure he is a more qualified technologist and inventor than any of the hobbyist in this forum. It is not enough to know the Poser universe in toto but you must also have advanced knowledge of the inner working of Daz Triax technology.

"Rodolphe Vaillant", allow me to laugh! ;)

We are at least a hundred vendors working frantically to help Dawn succeed. Never before in history has a new figure had such MASSIVE support. I feel proud of being part of it, not only because I expect to earn a lot of money but also because working for a good cause. A first for me! ;)

;)

All this to make "erotic" pics.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

The only thing I want from a new figure is that it be sufficiently better than what I have in my runtime to warrant spending money on new content. Frankly, that's a huge hurdle to clear.

I look forward to AmbientShade's Lucas because I do believe it will be much better than anything I currently own.

As for girls, I already have more figures than I can render.

I think it's a good thing that a company other than Daz can garner such widespread support and excitement for a new figure. So, that's great. I applaud the effort. Maybe in 10 years she'll be as well supported as V4 currently is.

But if the reality paint folks make a texture converter, I'll buy it to convert my rather large library of Gen 4 textures to Gen 3 so I can take advantage of Joe Public's phenomenal work.

Quote - The only thing I want from a new figure is that it be sufficiently better than what I have in my runtime to warrant spending money on new content. Frankly, that's a huge hurdle to clear.

I look forward to AmbientShade's Lucas because I do believe it will be much better than anything I currently own.

.......

Absolutely agree on this!

Any new figures I buy (and I'm perfectly happy to buy - I'm not expecting good work to be given away for free), have to be significantly better or different enough from what I have already to be interesting to me.

Examples - Blackhearted's Anastasia (Ok, not a completely new figure), but significantly better than Alyson2 and so gorgeous there was no way I wasn't buying her.
And Adh3d's Adman - different enough to make him well worthwhile having.

I've never seen so much high-waisted shorts in my life! Is high-waisted shorts back in fashion?

Have I missed something?

?

 (apropos of preceding statement...)

Quote - You forget the most important thing, she must be beautiful, your model must be beautiful.

Even beautiful won't please everyone. If she's too beautiful some people will complain that she's not generic enough for a base figure. And the better she looks in her default state, the more people will render her in her in her default state, and the more other people will complain that there's a sameness about renders depicting her.

The other problem about model beauty is that too many people are shy to say to the creator that the model wip they are showing us is, in fact, scary looking transvestite, so the model is released as a scary looking transvestite.