IIRC, Smith Micro had improved their communication on listing changes when bringing out new updates, but I'm not seeing anything this time around. Am I missing something?

Something has changed in skin rendering ... I'm guessing SSS. I have a scene I've been re-rendering with different hair colours, and suddenly the character's skin is considerably lighter compared to previous renders.

The readme lists the changes and updates that come with SR4. Can be downloaded from the update page:

http://poser.smithmicro.com/pro2014-updates.html

Hm, I could swear that wasn't there when I downloaded, but maybe I'm just losing it. Thanks AmbientShade!

Quote -   ...suddenly the character's skin is considerably lighter compared to previous renders.

     In the material room, click on the source pic name for each image map, and see if the gamma has been changed to custom gamma value: 1.

     It's a bug - it has been reported.

Thanks. I just realized that late in the game last time I was in Poser, I had changed the EZSkin setting from Skin 2 to Skin 1. Haven't rendered yet, but I think that's the difference.

* It's a bug - it has been reported.*

*I don't think it's a bug, import any object or figure with a texturemap for the diffuse color and/or specular color (posersurface) and a bumpmap and/or transparancy map and look at their gamma settings:

color- and specular maps are set to "Use Gamma value from Render settings" and bump, transparency, displacement and normal maps are set to "Custom Gamma value, 1" as it should be.

This not a bug, this is an improvement because it saves time.

Where does this go wrong? With objects that share the same map for color and bump settings. In that case the map is set to user gamma value 1. 

But I also think did fixed some bugs in the render-engine which aren't mentioned in the readme. 

Best regards,

Bopper.

     The bug is that some of the settings change to custom gamma value: 1 after closing and then re-opening a scene.  If you use Queue Manager to send jobs/frames to remote(s), the remotes "open" the scene, and some of their gamma settings will be changed.

     It is this unbidden change of settings which I consider a bug.

I don't use queue manager, so I didn't noticed that. I thought it was a nice fix, because you don't have to use scenefixer or change everything by hand, to get the correct settings. Anyhow this behaviour is new because it wasn't in the last SR.

And I'm suppose your right because I haven't tried everything yet.

best regards,

Bopper

a note, just to make you aware: the gamma value is related to the filename, despite its node, despite its path, despite its type / extension. Or more precise: each /file. is converted to file.exr in texturecache, and that one gets the settings associated with.

Use several files with the same name but different paths / types / extensions, and you''re in for a surprise. Use a file for different purposes in different materials (diffuse and bump) and you're in for a surprise too. The most recent adjustment wins, but no-one can predict the order of handling. So when Poser starts to make adjustments itself...

     Yes, I understand that when using the same pic in more than one material, the most recent change applies to all.  But, even if the most recent mod was to use gamma value from render settings, or maybe custom gamma value: 2.2, if you close the scene and then open it later, some image maps (can't predict which ones) will have been reset to custom gamma value: 1.

     Also, even if you never close the scene, if you send a test render off to a remote node on the network via Queue Manager, when that remote opens the scene to do the render job, it will have some image maps' gamma reset.

     And image maps which get reset may just as likely be feeding only the diffuse/specular sockets.  But even if they are driving transparency, bump, or displacement, it is not correct for Poser to reset them to gamma: 1 after I've set the gamma.  What is correct would be that they remain set with whatever gamma I chose.  An image map defaulting to custom gamma: 1 when first connected to trans/displc/bump is OK -I get Bopperthijs' point- but if I change that gamma, Poser should not reset it when I reopen a scene or send the scene off to Queue.

I've seen this issue with an image attached to an IBL light since PoserPro 2012. If it is now happening with other images in shaders, particularly skin texture shader, then I'm not installing this Serial Update until it's fixed.

     Understandable.  One need only be patient for a while - it has been reported, and SM are on it.

@LatexLuv: to my understanding, IBL images render with gamma=1 whatever you set them. Same as they don't render specularity, whatever you do.

But the issue as reported by Seachnasaigh really seems a nasty bug to me.

In the meantime: up till now the Refract node was broken, bending the incoming and outgoing light in the same direction twice (instead of opposite directions when going in and out the object). Is that fixed?

@aRTBEE, I hate to disagree with you but I've tested it over and over again in both Poser Pro 2012 and Poser 10. You load an image and attach it to the IBL light (can be an jpg or HDR, doesn't matter). It will come in with the setting "use Gamma value from render" which of course is 2.20. Render a couple of times. Maybe up to 3 times. Then I go and check the IBL and the image has switched to Gamma 1.0. It doesn't say that in the dialogue box (I checked), but you can tell because the image is suddenly very bright. Do a render after the check and the render WILL be brighter than the two or 3 you just rendered.  Load a saved IBL set from Poser Pro 2010 or Poser 7, and the image will be bright like it's Gamma 1.0 but the dialogue box still says "use Gamma value from render" Click on the image, reload it. It will come back into Poser as GC 2.20. Render a couple of times. Check the image again, and it's obviously popped back to GC 1.0.

If it loaded up as GC 1.0 and it STAYED at GC 1.0, then I could adapt some IBL light sets to work in Poser 10, but it swaps back and forth. And the really hinky part of it is that I've seen it do this swapping behavior even on one of BB's synthetic node IBL shader setups.

I'm pretty sure it's a bug and it's been there since PoserPro 2012. I don't know how to report it or if they'd even fix it because I think they now asumme everyone is using IDL and not IBL anymore. But I have used IBL and IDL together and have liked the results, until this bug crept up in PoserPro 2012. Now using an IBL light is next to uselss which is a damn shame.

This issue seems to be fixed, here is the same glass sphere (IOR 1.5) in PP2012 and PP2014 SR4.

**
@aRtBee
**I recall either yourself or Baggins weren't happy about something to do with the reflection or refraction, can't remember what it was but I'm curious, is the listed fix what you meant - is it fixed now?

That issue is fixed.
As is rendering dynamic hair with raytrace shadows, and some other issues that did not make it to the read-me file.

Have fun using the new Poser tools.
Tony

@latexluv:

the way you describe it, something has been changed. Whether that's a bug or a feature, I don't know (yet). But if you've found it, it's there, nothing to disagree about.

On the other hand, I was referring to http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3669566&ebot_calc_page#message_3669566 and in there, July 8 2010, BB states "But I just did a test in Poser Pro 2010 and no matter what value I use on the the IBL image "Custom Gamma", the results are the same".

So mayby SM has the opinion that G=1.0 is the proper image setting. Maybe they found that wrong later on, fixed it, and now they decided to repair the fix. Now you ask to unbug the repair of the fix. Great :-)

@pumeco

in my opinion, there are so many things wrong at such an elementary level that I seriously doubt whether FF is raytracing at all, instead of just playing games with us again. Who cares.

• object reflects in a softened (blurred) reflector which reflects in a sharp reflector, then the object appears sharp. Apparently, all the raytracing is done first and all the blur is done later. Same for soft refractions, and combi's with reflection
  To be retested. The workaround is to make sharp reflections / refractions and apply custom_scatter (not the easiest node to master btw) to do the blurring. Scatter and reflect/refract have no additional combi consequences on rendertime or result (just tested).
• Reflection and refraction don't work on direct light. So you can't make a spotlight shine around a corner via a mirror, refraction doesn't bend light either, and behaves opaque and so it produces far to dark shadows.
  BB offered the proper (but slow) solution for the latter, which turned out to produce infinite render times when multiple objects with this setup were combined in one scene, including reflections and IDL.
  These issues still exist.
• Reflection makes a bad combi with partial transparency. It does make internal reflections quite the right way but rendertimes become mindblowing. To be retested. This btw was in my opnion the reason that above workaround+test ran that slow: the workaround required partial transparency which combined the wrong way with the reflections.
• Refraction makes a bad combi with IDL. In a very simple scene rendertimes go up four-fivefold. From the tests running right now.
  (just refract: 3:20 but with IDL 15:20. refract+Scatter 5:40 but with IDL: 21:00)
• Refraction had a bug, bending the light the same way twice instead of in opposite ways. As Bobbesch shows and Vilters states, this seems to be fixed (as was also stated by BB while testing the SR4, but then it appeared to be broke again, that's why I asked).
  This also implies that the Fresnel node can be used again, instead of the workaround: a fresnel blend combining refraction and reflection but having different IoR's in refraction and blend.

EDIT: bug is fixed, the refraction behaves at it should in IoR changes and refractive block rotations as well. Thank you SM.

Everything else is fine, haha (not). The most crowded Poser Room still is the Room for Improvement.

have fun, thanks for sharing your thoughts

In addition: in my opinion, IBL texture maps should have GC enabled (using Render Gamma). I agree with latexluv and disagree with SM. G=1 for the IBL texture map is wrong.

**
@Vilters**
Have fun with the Poser Tools that still don't work despite they were told about them?

Mirroring is still screwed-up on the Morph Brush, so as far as I'm concerned the purchase of Poser 10 was something I could have done without.  I bought it to monetize on it but I can't due to it being incapable of doing what they said.

I'd demand a refund on it but I'm that fed up, I cannot even be arsed!

@aRtBee
I share your frustration, but at least you have one or two things fixed - better than nothing.  There's a lot more to it than I originally thought if that lot is anything to go by.  One thing for sure, if they cannot get basics like that right, I assume any hopes of having a GPU accelerated FireFly is well and truly crushed before it even gets started.

@ Pumeco

Mirroring works perfectly "as designed" in the ZERO pose.
And as you told yourself : You never filed a bug report.

FYI : It has been reported by others, but as mirroring works perfectly "as designed" in the ZERO pose, it has a lower priority then critical issues that have been reported through the proper channels.

Completely normal procedure for any software company to correct critical reports first.

If some one can / could be pissed off it is "me".

**I filed a SUPERBUG for content creators, and that one is still not resolved either.

*But? I am pleased with the improvements so far, and I work around it.

Content creators workflow culd be halved in time when this Superbug finally gets a fix.

@pumeco

sorry to disappoint you, but having been part of the gang who survived Poser 5 it's pretty hard to get me frustrated by any recent development. I'm grateful to stewer and his (very small) gang for all the work done, from my software development background I do know what it takes.

I'm just having fun with it, it's the Fiat amongst 3D tools, and I'm not part of the gang who insists on turning the Fiat into a Ferrari for the price of a Vespa. Which doesn't stop me from understanding all its limitations, and from really mastering the features it actually offers.

And it's an artists tool to me, supporting a very wide range of styles, and enabling me to create reasonable and believable results in the photoreal arena too. For other goals I need (and use) other tools. Octane and Photoshop are my friends as well. Some people want to understand Poser from a Physics point of view. I''ve started to understand Poser from an artist''s point of view. Like: what are GC, IDL and Scatter doing to image depth and object shape presentation, and how do they interact?

join the club.

(LatexLuv) 

Quote -   If it loaded up as GC 1.0 and it STAYED at GC 1.0, then I could adapt some IBL light sets to work in Poser 10, but it swaps back and forth. And the really hinky part of it is that I've seen it do this swapping behavior even on one of BB's synthetic node IBL shader setups.I'm pretty sure it's a bug and it's been there since PoserPro 2012. I don't know how to report it or if they'd even fix it because I think they now asumme everyone is using IDL and not IBL anymore. But I have used IBL and IDL together and have liked the results, until this bug crept up in PoserPro 2012. Now using an IBL light is next to uselss which is a damn shame. 

     I believe that the bug report(s) which are already in cover this, but I will make it a point to check IBL gamma behavior once a fix is released.

(aRtBee) 

Quote -   In the meantime: up till now the Refract node was broken, bending the incoming and outgoing light in the same direction twice (instead of opposite directions when going in and out the object). Is that fixed?

     Refract now respects total index of refraction, as Bob Besch noted, and I've been playing with lens models, making magnifiers, and making zoom-out lenses for use inside tight interiors.

found this one: in the past we advised people to turn off Light Emitter on Dynamic Hair, in order to sacrifice a little bit of quality while gaining enormously in rendertimes.

A recent test on just this revealed that LE being on or off produced the same render results in the same render time. Seems that something has changed here...

Please re-test for confirmation and comparison with other Poser versions.