I suggested "Stoned Sloth" Although I think it's been hitting the hard drugs. Maybe LSD? It has a nasty habbit of leaving a few facets out when rendering... That's Judy's feet. There's nothing wrong with the model. The render has culled the "Back Faces" there on the front of the model. Sad. I was really hoping for a new render engine. How do I make the P4 Render the default? What ever part of the cost Stoned Sloth was, I want it back. It's useless. It is also bloody obvious CL knew it was a POS. Why do you think they left the old render engine in?

I stiil have yet to see any major difference from the P4 render engine in the images posted so far. except that its slower ;-/

Nerd -- was that render in Draft Mode or Production Mode? I saw some posts that Draft did that . . but I was hoping it didn't carry over into Production . . .

I have to wait until Poser 5 hits Germany. But after what I know yet about Poser 5 problems it could be that this is my last Poser update. I have the bad feeling Curious labs play with us some kind of game I don't like. Hope it is only a feeling. Well, I wait until I have it here and can test it for the things I want using it for and then find out. And if it is really that bad...well then some guys should have a talk about taking back and give me the money.

Well, I am so far not impressed with the FF engine. What is sad is that to get the best look for the Dynamic Hair is in the FF renderer. =( I am trying not to hold too much judgement against it until I have got to work with it some, but I have yet to see any renders that are better than the P4 engine. BTW, does the P4 engine have the poly smoothing capability? Or is that only with FF?

Yes, no, It seems to do it whenever it feels like it. Some combinations of settings will cause some facets to drop off. Shadows and Shading Rate seem to effect it. Production or Draft. If you change a setting the lost facets will either move or go away. If the renderer wasn't so f'n slow it wouldn't be a big deal. But when you have to wait 15 minutes to see the results it's a bit annoying when you figures nose turns up missing.

instead of "firefly" how about the "Slug": Slow ,not very impressive and leaves some very unappealing "artifacts" in its wake. :-)

I think this is strictly a draft mode problem, and therefore it's no problem at all. Draft mode is not SUPPOSED to be perfect. It's supposed to be FAST. Period. I really don't understand the rampant misrepresentation that's going on in this forum regarding P5. I hope all these knee-jerk negative messages are going to be saved. They'll look pretty silly a year from now when we fully understand all the nuances and power of this program (and it's REAL flaws). For people who don't have P5 yet, don't listen to anybody, good or bad. Nobody really knows ANYTHING yet. We're all just groping around in the dark. The only real truth about this new version is that, despite the familiar interface, it's VERY unfamiliar underneath and it will take a while to learn. And, no, I don't work for Curious Labs. I just want to see the program get a fair shake. I'm into fairness. --jjsemp

Cromwell1, The only thing the "Smooth Polygons" does is turn boxes into balls. Useless if you scene has anything that is supposed to be straight in it. This with Stoned Sloth...

This with P4 R

OK, the shadows in the Stoned Sklug render make it look like the blue tubes are away from the surface, they are not. Thos oval things were boxes. The P4 Render is as the object was modeled. It looks like the parctice of smoothing edges, something all us P4 model makers do as a motter of practice really throws the smooth polygons thing off. If you make sharp edges (like the prop box) it doesn't do this. No bigge, except every poser prop out there except the box has co-planar, or beveled edges. This particular prop has co-planar cornars. Not a knee jerk reaction. I didn't get un-happy until I read the entire Chapter and tried about a hundred test renders. The more I played the more problems I found. Trying to work around one bug just made 2 or 3 more popup. Don't get me wrong on the whole I'm really happy, the Cloth thing is WAY COOL. I'm still playing with dynamic hair, but it has real promise. And Clooision detection will save a lot of time. Yeah, it crashes. So does MAX. P4 used to crash all the time. I know that will be fixed in patches. I just don't see patches fixing Stoned Sloth. I hope I'm wrong.

heres a question regarding the original postimage in this thread. I dont have P5 yet but what may be the problem with this and I may be wrong is the way in which Poser 5 recognises backfaces, does it recognise a backface by taking the direction of a polygons normal relative to the camera? If so then a polygon which has its normals invertedwrong way round may cause this problem. Anybody able to do a test on this?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=864872

Nerd (or anyone else), you could look at my picture six posts down and tell me what you think? I'm particularly interested in why the Poser 4 was so much faster than the Poser 5 w/P4 renderer; and why the Firefly render is so dark. Nothing was changed between the three renders. Here's the link to the pic.

Reason I asked is that I saw posette rendered with poly smoothing and she looked alot better. What is bad about the above 2 examples is that the better shadowing is in the FF engine, but the correct detail is gone. jjsemp: Not trying to knock it too much until we get into the meat of the proggy. Just simply saying the FF engine is a bit underwhelming as it is. I don't think anyone is really misrepresenting it, per say as much as showing what they are getting from it. Heck, even screenshots from the "PoserPro's" who got to do testing and are not only experts with P4, but have had alot more time on it have gotten a grasp than we have are not very impressive (look at the gallery at RuntimeDNA for instance). I also want to add that Nerd is someone I would consider a "Pro" and respected member of the community and I respect his opinions. However, I had already concluded taht I am not very impressed by the other screenshots. ~Cromwell~

uncheck the "remove back facing polygons" and render in production mode. I find the rendering to be far superior to P4. Ron

I render the entrie Poser 5 family with the Production mode. It came out 0k. but I did a couple that had black markd just like nerds. I did another that was very distored? all in production. The fly mode works like 4. In fact you can still render with the old Poser 4 way. It distored quim's dragonfly wings too. Just learing. But I'm not impressed with the people at all. I love vicky mike and the girls. Haven't tried the cloth yet.

To jjsemp...you talked about giving Curious a fair shake...well I felt the same way until I have now spent the last 3 hours doing more CTRL/ALT/DELETE than anything else...this baby just doesn't work, at all, on my system...constant lock ups...when moving from one room to the next..the previous rooms windows remain on the screen...pretty soon, nothing works... I've managed to hit render couple of times,...but then it says files are missing..when using Judy...so far this has been a complete fiasco for me..... Yes...maybe don't listen, but believe me when I say, I don't enjoy talking bad about the program...but so far it doesn't work. I wouldn't recommend anyone buy this now--wait until all the crap flows out, and a fix is completed...6 months> a year??? If I feel different tomorrow, I'll let everyone know..but Poser 5 is about 2 hours away from being uninstalled and returned to Curious....and they can then take P4 as well. That's how I feel right now---and I was cheering as much or more than anybody here for Poser 5 prior to release.

I think the Glaucoma Renderer is a good name, judging from the weird results I've gotten.

Just for the record -- I'm a big fan (and frequent buyer) of Nerd and his stuff, so I have nothing against Nerd. And I'm all for complaining when I think a company is trying to con a buyer -- I'm the guy who's still on Daz's case for not telling people upfront that Mike and Vicky are not fully compatable with MIMIC. And I'll be the first to complain if it's proven that P5 doesn't work. But so far, for me, the program has been pretty well-behaved. I just think we need to give it a little breathing room. Dave-So, I did initially have problem with Poser 5 locking up on my Windows XP machine. I couldn't get past the startup until I removed Zonealarm (and disconnected it from the Internet, naturally). Then it seemed to work better. I've tested it out on my three different machines. The other two are ATHLON XP-1600 and 1800, 512 meg, both using Windows 2000. It seems to like Windows 2000 more than Windows XP. I've had more than a few crashes on the Win XP machine (AMD Duron 900 with 512 meg). Don't know if that has to do with XP or the slower CPU. Haven't registered yet. I figure if Curious Labs is giving us a trial period, I'll use it as just that -- a TRIAL period. It cuts both ways. If I'm not satisfied, I WILL send it back. But I do believe we have to give it a chance. --jjsemp

One thing that helps in rendering using Firefly is to deselect 'use displacement maps' and, as mentioned by ron above, deselecting the 'remove back facing polygons' helps sometimes too.

Judging by NERDS renders it perhaps could be called 'Fish Eye' As an impatient UK 'processing'order all these posts about P5 instability are freaking me out_half of me wants to call the whole thing off.. the other half just can't wait!

And I quote directly from the Poser 5 shrinkwrap: "Opening this CD package indicates your full acceptance of the Poser 5 End User License Agreement (EULA) on page 11 of the Reference Manual. You cannot return this product after opening this CD package." From page 11 of the Reference Manual: WARNING CURIOUS LABS IS UNABLE TO ACCEPT RETURNS ON PRODUCTS WITH OPEN CD HOLDERS They restate that two more times on the same page. I see nothing in the manual or EULA about any trial period. And if ain't in the EULA, it ain't there. Period. Oh, and my vote goes to "Slug" as the new name for the new P5 renderer. casamerica

Cas, If I buy something and I'm not happy, it goes back. Period. That's MY own personal EULA. As for Curious Labs' EULA, just because it's in print doesn't make it legal -- or the final word. Sometimes you just have to get pushy and raise a little ruckus. But, hey, don't mind me. I work in Hollywood where a signed contract is usually treated with as much reverence as toilet paper. However, it's a moot point. I AM happy, and I think the product has lived up to my expectations. Thanks Curious Labs. Now I just have to figure out which computer I want to register it on. --jjsemp P.S. My vote for a new name for the renderer is "New Possibilities."

I agree with jjsemp on returning something. If a product doesn't do what the company says it'll do, I'll send it back. Period. If they don't like it, they can have a great time trying to pry the money out of my credit card company after I deny the charge. While Poser 5 is very disappointing to me so far, I still think it was worth the $129 I paid for it, simply for the zoom tool (could have been much better, tho), better library system, and easier-to-read dials. The hair's kinda nice, too. So I ain't sending it back (although I am keeping P4 on my system, which I didn't want to do). Hopefully the lockups and other problems will be fixed soon.

My statement was in response to the remark that we were being granted some sort of "trial period." We are not. Whatever we get as far as refunds will be at the mercy of Curious Labs and the good hearts of the people there... and they are good people. I may be as disappointed and frustrated with Poser 5 at the moment as I am with the Chicago Cubs, but I do know that the PEOPLE of Curious Labs are good people. I am just saying let us not work under the illusion that CL has given us some sort of special dispensation. >>>P.S. My vote for a new name for the renderer is "New Possibilities."<<< Well, when I do get the program to render with Firefly, I have yet to see anything that awes me beyond what could have been done with the P4 renderer. However, there are new tools that I have yet been able to play with since I am spending most of my time watching my machine reboot. My final verdict will not come for some time. I expect to see the first patches from CL within days. If not, further disappointment. Once the bugs, yes they are bugs, are figured out and stamped out, then we will see what it can do. Until then, you have an awful lot of people watching their machines reboot. casamerica