This credit card nightmare just gets worse. If anyone knows how to get a message to Kupa I would appreciate it. I ordered Poser 5 on Dec.16 as a xmas gift. Due to errors in THEIR authorization method I was billed for 10 orders of Poser 5 and the bank froze my credit card. My bank told me if I would get Curious Labs to call them they could remove the block. Here was the reply from Curious Labs Customer Service. "I am sorry, but we are very resource short today and I am unable to address your requests at this time. I understand your request is urgent, but we are currently buried under urgent requests. Not only will they not make the call so I can get this taken care of and free up my credit card but they now want me to pay $55.00 for shipping to get Poser 5 here for xmas. If they don't make the call to the bank I will not be able to buy xmas gifts for my children. Thanks for anyone that can help me.

Well, this doesn't exactly fill one's heart with warm, fuzzy feelings where CL's concerned. The billing problem's bad enough, but their refusal to make a five-minute phone call to fix it (which could have been done in about as much time as it took to send you the email telling you they couldn't do it) is inexcusable. For all the trouble they've put you through, they should waive the overnight shipping charge in your case. I worked in mail-order customer service for a couple of years, and this is NOT the way it should be done. Every day they fail to fix the problem is another day they're essentially guilty of credit card fraud. Out fucking rageous.

"Due to errors in THEIR authorization method I was billed for 10 orders of Poser 5 and the bank froze my credit card" it sounds like you submitted the transaction 10 times? also, you haven't been billed. the funds were just held for each transaction which you submitted. these authorizations usually drop off in 3-4 days. since this happened monday, they should be dropping off starting today. "they now want me to pay $55.00 for shipping to get Poser 5 here for xmas." where are you located? on their site overnight shipping is only $30... "guilty of credit card fraud" for what? she hasn't been billed. she hasn't even been charged yet. there are just authorizations on her account for transactions which she submitted.

I agree completely with you Mosca (wow!! ;)), that's an amazing story and CL's response is quite surprising considering the seriousness of the problem. I really can't picture a Poser 5-related problem that could be more urgent than this one. Best of luck to you, take care. SnowS

Make this call for this poor woman! I just can't believe you know of this??????? What I can't believe is the charge for over night shipping, when we all got that when Poser 5 was first shipped, with no extra charge. **** I can't believe she still wants Poser 5 after this?***** You ought to give her a free Poser 5 and beg forgiveness of who ever wrote that crappy answere to her e-mail.

the answer email may be an automated ebot response? they may be already looking into this? it may be worth it to just call them even if it is a toll call to find out what is going on?

Hello, people. The holder of a credit card can have those charges temporarly removed while the transaction is investigated. If the bank's saying otherwise, she should be talking to the bank manager; failing that, the credit card company, which will have an 800 number. Talking to CL is not the only resource, and I'm sorry, but I don't believe for one moment that that was CL's response.

Ok, despite better judgement, I have to defend myself and my company. There is a lot of misinformation, miscommunication and exaggeration going on. I have bent over backwards here and there is only so much I can do within technical systems and credit card companies fraud protection. In the past it has taken days and hours on the phone with credit card companies to get things like this resolved. It is not a 5 minute phone call. When I have massive orders to get out, I can not spend full days on 1 customer. This is a customer issue, but there is an incredibly amount of information that is not being shared. There was NO problem with our authorization system. Rather than handle any of this out here, I welcome criticism (and compliments) to my supervisors. you can email cooper@curiouslabs.com or sales@curiouslabs.com which goes to all of my supervisors. They know how I handle things and I am not offended in the least if someone wants to share a complaint. I have spent TONS of time on the phone trying to resolve this issue. I have been very hesitant to post, I am SLAMMED with urgent requests right now, but I did want the community to know that I am doing my usual customer service magic and have gotten this issue resolved and she will have the package by Christmas. It is the holidays and even I take things personally every now and then and just can't stand being cut down when I am trying really hard to help someone out. I know it is of fashion to bash us these days, but we are real people back here who ARE TRYING. People on here generally know that I do my best. (I hope!) I have been away from the forums because I have soooo much on my plate right now. Some nice user sent me this link, and i doubt I will have a chance to checkin again. I am not monitoring this forum for service issues anymore, the only way to get me is via service@curiouslabs.com. Thanks, Tori AKA Starlet and CL CS Girl

Also, the increase in the shipping cost was due to her desire to get it before Christmas. Ordering via our online store delivers via an International Economy method (which even ordering the first day would not have arrived on time) and when ordering via mail order, she requested the express method to arrive on time. The large cost is due to international shipping, this is not a domestic order.

"When I have massive orders to get out, I can not spend full days on 1 customer. " Err, no offense, but if my credit card got hit with $3,500+ in erroneous credit card charges, you can be sure that I would call American Express, and that they in turn would force you to spend as much time as necessary to repair the problem. I understand that you may feel overwhelmed at times, but if a customer has a problem with being overcharged $3500, it had better become a top priority. If it's her fault, that's her problem yes, but you are still at a disadvantage here, since the adage "the customer is always right" will ruin far more in sales than the $3500 in dispute. If I hadn't already purchased P5, I would be hesitant to buy it after reading this and seeing only part of the story. This isn't because of any empathy for the customer (hell, for all I know she did hit the damned "submit" button 10 times over), but because of your response that if I were to come across a problem, I'd be told that CL can't afford to spend all that much time fixing any problems I have. Now, if that's your response to purchasing problems, then how do you think I would assume your tech support worked? Or warranty service? or ...? Ugh. Like I said, no offense, but you were indeed right when you said that "despite better judgement"... because you may have indeed caused mroe harm than good. /P

"Err, no offense, but if my credit card got hit with $3,500+ in erroneous credit card charges, you can be sure that I would call American Express, and that they in turn would force you to spend as much time as necessary to repair the problem." heya, the point was that her credit card didn't get charged, or overcharged, and nothing was erroneous. she submitted the transaction 10 times herself, and had the funds held temporarily through the bank for each submission. it's how credit cards work. these authorizations drop off after a few days when the transactions don't get processed. I'm glad CL took the extra time and fixed the problem and helped out the customer who had submitted 10 transactions. see the follow up post: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1009287&Reply=1009302#2

must turn off ebot thing!

My apologies, but the point wasn't a question of whose fault it was. The point is in public relations, and nothing more. I am glad as well that the problem was solved, but Starlet's response may have damaged CL's reputation more than helped, which was the main thrust of my argument, such as it is. "these authorizations drop off after a few days when the transactions don't get processed." This isn't always the case, as it depends on the screw-up; I've had a company erroneously charge me thrice for a video card I never recieved, though I had only sent the order once, and had cancelled it by phone when the card failed to arrive three weeks after it was promised. My statement the next month showed three billings for $84.50 apiece. Upon seeing the charges, I called Amex and had their Fraud Protection service clean it all up on my behalf - it took less than 24 hours between my initial phone call, and an email stating that the charges have been cleared, that the merchant ate three chargebacks, and that the credit amount ahd been released. An apology arrived by e-mail from the merchant the very next day. And yes, I am admittedly bastard enough to behave exactly as I had, especially when my money is involved. Now, if I were fool enough to have hit the submit button three times (esp. without the merchant telling me to do so, as CL allegedly had), and I got three cards, that would be another matter entirely. Not trying to be a hardass here, just stating in plain language why Starlet shouldn't have posted what she did. CL has enough problems without their employees going ballistic on the forums over it. /P

The issue really isn't who was in error. It's a customer service (read those two words again, slowly) issue and should've been taken care of when it first came up. If CL is too short-handed to deal with the holiday rush, I've got three words for ya: hire more people. Part-time labor is cheap these days, and for a company as embattled as CL obviously feels, a little customer goodwill (as opposed to yet another wave of resentment) might be worth the additional $7 an hour between now and New Year's day. For my money, the fact that this issue was resolved AFTER a few people got vocal is further proof that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. This is ever the case in customer service: if you're too nice, you're easy to ignore. Polite but insistent works best in person or on the phone, but it often takes a frothing-at-the-mouth shitfit to get anyone's attention online.

Peng, Go spend 1 day - hell, even 1 hour at Cl and see what Tori has to go through. Then come back and pontificate to the rest of us ignorant masses. Anthony Hernandez who is no longer @ CL

What the hell is taking Saddam so long with sending over that nuke!?

"What the hell is taking Saddam so long with sending over that nuke!?" Maybe CL tied up his credit card.

8-)

Bad news - the "you don't know what it's like" argument isn't going to help all that much in bankruptcy court, esp. considering CL's already precarious position after the P5 debacle. And yeah, I've been there before, and yeah, I have also seen the real world results of outbursts like this. Hate me all you want, call me a rotten bastard if it soothes your ego, but don't think you can demand that I empathize with anyone on any business matter. She may be going through "hell" right now, but there are a whole host of customer service folks who would have been fired in an instant if they so much as thought of pulling a stunt like that, and I suspect that you and I both know it. I'm just making a point, and nothing more. If CL wants to countenance it, that's their right, and I certainly can't (or won't) stop 'em. OTOH, they've got more than enough problems right now without one of their own telling every customer who can read it that they aren't worth more than an hour of CL's time at the most. Don't you worry Nos, I won't darken this thread any longer after this post, and I won't hurt any of those precious feelings at Curious Labs (even if their actions on this matter are at the expense of CL's bottom line), so feel free to insult me as often as you feel the need to. Regd's, /P

I'm not trying to insult you. Merely to point out that some very beleagured folks are doing absolutely all they can. Meanwhile, go call up your county EMS deaprtments. They'll tell you the following: If a fire engine, ambulance, police car, etc. is enroute to a "Code 3" (emergency) call and another Code 3 call comes in, even one more serious or closer to a responding resource, guess what? Early bird gets the worm.

I totally 100% back Penguinisto and Mosca on the Customer service, feelings on just What customer service is. EMS is not Customer service, in the respect it's not selling anything at all. Our Police dept. would switch routes if the 2nd call was more important. Lets just face the facts. CL is over reacting to any and all remarks made about them, since the famous Poser5 hit the market. My idea of customer service is one word =DAZ.

why does my ebot response not turn off?? ARGGGGG Still trying to get out of this thread ;P

Escape is impossible. Resistance is futile.

"If a fire engine, ambulance, police car, etc. is enroute to a "Code 3" (emergency) call and another Code 3 call comes in, even one more serious or closer to a responding resource, guess what? Early bird gets the worm." If you are unfortunate enough to live in a place with one fire engine, ambulance, police car, etc, then it is your choice of where you live that is erroneous. In most places, they usually have at least two (one for the grunts and one for the chiefs). Of course, calling the local donut shop would probably foster a quicker response. :0)

Peace and good will on Earth!

Damn it, folks! SHE made 10, that is TEN, transactions. SHE hit that button TEN times. Most people would have stopped at 3 if they noticed that their own credit card was fouling up the order. She absolutely must take some responsibility for her problems... and not expect the world and every merchant in it to clear her errors out of the way. She also shouldn't expect that this far too vocal community will use its leverage for her when it is HER own fault that there were 10 transactions posted. The sympathy ploy of no toys for her kids doesn't wash, either. She should have done her Christmas shopping before spending money on herself. Poor Tori, having to endure the fangs of those few serpents trying to bring CL down as well as handle the legitimate problems on CL's end. And, yes, I've had credit card snags and errors before. I've called the credit card company myself, as many times as it took, and resolved the problem at the source rather than badger a merchant into doing my job. I have no sympathy for this woman... or for those mindless crusaders who'll jump on any cause if it furthers their agenda. Carolly

Personally, I can see responsibilities on all sides of the issue: 1) kramer99: Should have tried to place the order probably 2-3 times. Failing that, she should have contacted her Credit Card company and/or CL to see why the transaction seemed to be failing. 2) The Credit Card Company: They should have at least understood that it was an "honest mistake" and placed a "stop payment", "hold", or "cancellation" on the other 9 charges in dispute. 3) CL: Should have been more sympathetic at the beginning, which apparently they were in the end, and assisted kramer99 in rectifying the issue by contacting the Credit Card Company disputing the charges. There is an apparent flaw in the transaction processing system which, IMHO, should be looked into. When you have one person making 10 subsequent purchases (vs 1 purchase for a quantity of 10) of the same items within X amount of time it should have set flags somewhere. Theoretically, this should be something that can be scripted to avoid too much human intervention. (Kind of like a time out for posting too many times in one thread, or flooding.) Regardless, the sitaution was handled and all is well again. Chalk it up to the stresses of the Holiday Season and move on.

My wife works in an electronics retail outlet. She has to tolerate crap like Kramer99's every day. This time of the year, there's soooo many people who act like King or Queen of the world, and expect EVERYONE to stop whatever they're doing (including taking care of customers who were there before them ) and solve THEIR needs "RIGHT FOKKIN' NOW GAUD DAMMIT!!" Thats why Christmas sucks so much, and anymore, MOST people don't have any clue of how completely sh!tty they make it for others. Kramer99 outta be slapped up side the head for being so outrageously stupid in the first place. Gimme a break! No chance of "peace on earth" or "good will" for anyone, if she doesn't have her piddling Poser 5 when she wants it. Right?

I am a little confused. In the name of "customer service" CL is supposed to dedicate an entire employee or two to solving a problem that they didn't create... and let all the other customers who need attention swing in the breeze for a day or two as well as however many orders not get processed. I don't think that makes a whole lot of sense. But OK, let's pretend they bought into this idea of "customer service" and were willing to commit the kind of economic suicide it would entail. How long till someone posted here complaining that CL was spending all their time with one customer and in the name of "customer service" they should be attending to everyone else too? Customer service is NOT a license to demand arbitrary amounts of resuorces from a company. Never has been, never will be.

I just wanted to pop in here, with 20/40 hindsight (hell, you should see what my normal sight is. ^_~) and observe that this strikes me as a perception problem. The problem is not that other issues took precedence, it's that this was flat out said to the customer, which when you're panicking and have a major problem, is a slap in the face. A better response may have been "We realize this is an urgent matter, and will attend to it as soon as possible." This says to the customer "you're on our priority list. We will help you." On the other hand "We realize this is an urgent matter, but we're busy on other things" says "you're not on our priority list. Maybe we'll get around to you later." You want all your customers to think they're on your priority list. Secondly, a theme I see over and over in Curious Labs messages. Guys, you've GOT to stop taking things personally and distance yourself. ANYTIME you are talking about Curious Labs and their products, you need to stay calm and professional, whether you're on duty or not. Even if you're not working right then, you're still a Curious Lab employee, and when your temper flares, the perception carries over to CL. It sucks, I know; that's why I don't work retail. Nonetheless, it needs to be done. You can shout across the office to Brian or across the living room to your spouse about what a dink you've got bashing you on the Renderosity message board, but in replying to said dink, you need to take a deep breath, smile, and give a business-like response.

hey, at least CL is actually responding to her personally... I went through two months of a MUCH LARGER corporation sending me canned responses when they sent me someone else's order to the tune of over 300 dollars. And it got worse and worse. I felt like they had a computer answering the mail. Well, sad thing was it was actually real people, but they were using canned responses and not actually reading my letters. finally got it solved when I complained to BBB and finally got a human being manager with a brain to talk to. It got solved in a few minutes then, exactly the way I wanted it solved. And a gift certificate and an apology from that company too. Also, if you get charged for something you didn't order, or overcharged for something on your cc, you can just call the fraud department and chargeback. No reason to scream around in a forum.

She ordered it 10 times, so it is not fraud. But, yes, there is no reason for her to scream around in a forum when she needed to deal with her own credit card company.

She didn't order it ten times. She ordered it once, and had trouble submitting the order. Thinking it didn't go through, she kept hitting the submit, ordering it again by mistake. These things can happen. And, yes, its still a case where you can chargeback if you find you have been charged 10 times for it. But it appears here that CL was not going to charge her ten times. They were actually working out the problem, but it also seems they are understaffed in their customer service, which can certainly cause a lot of frustration for someone working there (I've been there, understand how it is). This woman just had to go higher up the chain at her CC company - sounds to me more that they were acting like jerks. They can suspend the charges pending a dispute, she got a clerk mentality at the cc company like what I got before trying to work out the 300 dollar missent order.

heyas; a little off topic, here. kramer, have you considered debt consolidation to get rid of your credit card debt? you really shouldn't be so dependent on purchasing things on credit.

For the credit purchasing: Many, if not all, online stores require a CC in order to make a purchase, so using a CC is usually the only option. In this instance, when you have a $319 (presuming it was ordered during the discount still in progress) item charged 10 times on a CC totalling $3190, that is tying up $2871 worth of credit; not including shipping charges, etc. IMHO, this does not imply that kramer99 has credit problems, except for the apparent order issue and the tied up available credit. I know I find myself buying more and more online as you can find better bargains than you can locally in retail outlets. The only time I buy something locally is when it is time-sensitive or stuff (like groceries) that I would not want to wait 3-5 business days for delivery.