Well, I predicted and and now I have seen it. I was hesitant about purchasing V3 and if it hadn't been given to me as a christmas present, I wouldn't have bought her. I agonised long and hard about spending those gift certificates on V3 cause I have a list of other Daz stuff that I'd have rather had. But since the gift giver specified it was for V3, I purchased her. I have seen at least ONE instance where upgrades to existing V2 products were as much or more expensive. I did a little tally last night and I have spent over 2500.00 on clothes and hair for V2.(I carefully deducted any items I bought for Mike) I refuse to spend any MORE money on purchasing V3 stuff. If the merchants can't give upgrades to their existing stuff for a discount(or god forbid for free), then I won't buy their stuff either. I don't begrudge anyone a living, but I just won't bend over and hold out my credit card any longer. I can just as easily use V2 and save my money for other things. Daz and Merchants, I hope your listening. I'm not the only one with limited funds around here.

I agree. That is why I'm not planning to buy V3. I have a whole set of clothes for V2 and don't wish to buy the same for V3. Too expensive and too much hassle to reinstall a clothes library froim scratch. I'll get by with my trusty V2 and wait untill DAZ gives a patch that can make V3 wear V2 clothes. V3 seems to be really great, but my time is limited (and my funds not infinite either). Compiler

Which is why I suggested that V3 should not have been named Vicky. It ain't vicky. Its a whole new model, but folks think that since its called V3 it will wear the same things V1 and V2 wore. Not so. However, give it time. DAZ has the patch out now so that V3 can use V2 textures and its working just fine for me. Perhaps before long DAZ will release a morph injector patch for the V3 to V2 model (which does seem to wear Vicky's clothing). Or maybe codetwister will update Tailor so that it fits V2 stuff to V3. Or maybe V3 will get renamed so that we don't keep thinking it is compatable with the V series.

With large investments in V2 clothing and accessories, Daz will probably see a big slowdown in V3 sales unless they come out with something that will easily convert those V2 investments. I hope they're listening.

On the other hand there have been several new clothing realises for V2 that include clothes for v3....

I understand your point completely, Hisminky. Like you, I've spent quite a bit on V2 clothes myself. But I'm pretty convinced that many of the old clothes can be fit to the new model. In fact, I've converted several this far. I plan to get permission where applicable to share the modified cr2s. As a merchant and freestuff provider I agree that it's bad form to profiteer from old meshes. I think that its ok to charge a reasonable fee if there's great effort involved in the conversion. As far as new products go, my latest store item here will fit all the millenium women - Steph, Vicky and V3. So, I'm willing to make an effort as a merchant to provide versatile clothing.

I love the Vicky3. But about the clothes, I agree, i just can't do this all over again. I spent more on Vic-1and2 than I did my own clothes.( In the last couple of years) I would buy a Fairy wrap but thats it. When I seen the total at the top it does make one stop and think.

i wouldn't hate it if someone figured a way to put v3 head/neck on v2 body.

Poppi, we have that...it's V3 to V2...has V2's body so she an wear all of V 2's clothing and V3's head with all of the head morphs available to use. Now I've not yet tried to import any of V2's body morphs onto this new hybrid, so I don't know if it can be done or not, but give me about an hour and I'll try it and see if it works. Pendy

I think part of the real problem is in seeing what a few merchants are doing with it. Release a V2 product ... three weeks later, release a V3 upgrade that costs just as much as the original V2, or even more. Instead of support, it's feeding on the lack of availability. If you haven't seen the same thing, don't bite my head off. Just look a little harder. I'm not as brave as Minky. I don't even want to think about adding up what I spent on V2 and accessories. This is why I have no intention of picking up V3. I can't even get my main machine to work right now, I sure as heck can't afford to lay out that kind of money for add-ons.

I do know that Danie upgraded her pose collection to V3 and gave prior purchasers free upgrades...so that is one merchant that is doing it "right". Pendy

no...i have v3...what i mean is a v2 body, loaded with all v2's body morphs....in other words...the regular v2 body and the v3 head. i love that head. ;*)

And while we are discussing clothes, lets look at this as well. V3 is a HUGE file with all the morphs. Typically when I do a scene for a client, I have more than just Vicky, naked in a temple. I have backgrounds, props and other characters(sometimes Mike, sometimes the Preteen or Steph, or a whole group). Even with a AMD2200XP and a gig of RAM it bogs down. Now we have Vicky 3 and her 120 mgs with full morphs(not counting high rez textures). Hello? Bryce and Vue CHOKE on that. Poser isn't real pleased either. I'm all for realism, but geeze, I can't afford a Cray just to do Poser scenes

Why would you want to inject all the morphs? I could see injecting the face expressions and face shaping type ones, but you wouldn't need the full range of ethnicity morphs and body types on one figure. Also, as far as the high rez textures go, I bought them too but I used scaled down versions for non-closeups.

Pendy, I don't think the V2 body morphs work on the V3-V2 hybrid, which is a shame. I hope that figure doesn't end up getting ignored like the Michael-P4 figure did, since it's a great combination that can use the clothes we all have, plus the improved head. I was thinking that there would be more V3 clothes available in the Platinum Club...I know it's early though, and that was only my own wishful thinking, ;) But I agree, it's just too expensive to buy all the same stuff all over again for an improved, yet similar figure. Hopefully we'll find a solution that benefits everyone. :) SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words. 1001 Words

Panderian, since when did V3 head morphs go on to V3-V2? Was it the SR update? That makes a big difference for me if the morphs can work. Now to get P5 to respond to V3 injection! Rattler, yes, a big project, which is why I don't believe V3 should be in the same series as V1/2. Its a new model. It Valerie, or Repunzela, whatever, but it ain't Vickie.

Gosh I remember this with going from Posette to V1 and V2. But there's a big difference. Even though Vicky 2 is high res than posette the memory jump isn't as bad as Vicky 3. With v2 loaded with all body MTs, some clothes etc my figures range from 8 megs to like 16. With Vikcy 3 a full figure is around 120 megs. Remove the face shape MTs and it drops it like 59megs. Still, for the huge memory the bang for the buck just isn't there. I can't even imagine loading 4 v3 characters into a scene with a building and props. My machine has 1 gig of ram and a 40gig drive for its swap file and it still get slow mem messages just on having v2 and mike 2 figures. (about 8 in all). Really, what Daz needs to do is make or contract to make some sort of snap shot tool. Basically you take the full 120 meg v3, shape her the way you want then run her through the tool annd out pops a cr2 with just one Shaping body MT and all other MTs are deleted. The just inject the MTs you want for face expressions and body animations and you're set. The memory expense is my biggest gripe against the figure. Its just too huge and the images I've seen so far aren't that great compared to V2 stuff.

okay...guys n' gals...remember in the poser manual where you can create new characters....THE CLOWN, dammit, the clown!!! can't someone go figger how to put the new v3 head on the old v2 body? the v3-v2 has no body morphs. i mean there are centaurs and stuff running around out in poserland...i could play with this concept, but, in the time that it would take me....v8 would be on the market. anyone smart who can combine the 2?

Poppi, it can be done, but it's problematic. The easiest way would be to create a new neck (or necks) that will join the V3 head and the V2 native body. However, many of the V3 head morphs also influence the neck which won't carry over if the neck is new geometry. Then, to distribute the figure, both the V2 and V3 geometries are involved, so which geometry do you .pcf encode?

v2...i would encode. grant you v3 hangs tight in extreme arm lifting poses. but, that is not enough for me to want to worry about all new clothing for her. i make my own stuff...not for sale, just, just...'cause that is me. had i purchased dresses and stuff for vicki...i guess i would just want them to hurry up with v3 clothing. but, my clothing, that i have...i made. please don't laugh...the clothing and textures and stuff that i made for vicki seem a bit like my own children. i sure would love to be able to use them on this new "vicki"....okay, the community has explained how to do my own textures...but, the clothing, still really eludes me.

mason, why load 4 v3's into a scene? If you want closeup portrait, ok, V3, but if you want more distance from the camera, use posette or V1. That's assuming stills. If you are doing theatre animation, then get a render farm, or use another program like Maya or EIU or whatnot to do V3 animations. I'm not being harsh, just suggesting that real issues like high dollar wardrobes are more of a concern to us than scenes which have alternatives.

I certainly understand where the gripes are coming from, but if you don't own V3 how can you already be complaining about her non-compatibility? I was hesitant to buy her as well, but as someone who's wanted to focus more on postwork and less on buying props and clothes I knew it would be worth the upgrade.

From what I've seen, V3 can almost always wear V2's clothes with very minor scale tweaking and the free joint converter (either FyreSpiryt's, and I think there's another one out there somewhere). No magnets, no hours of adjusting dials, I'm talking under 5 minutes at the very most. Here's an example of PhilC's most recent "Almost Freebie", made for V2, worn by V3. I'd say this took me about a minute and a half.

And for those of you who haven't been able to work with V3 firsthand, there's a particularly informative review that shows images comparing V2 and V3 at In Depth Arts. I have no affiliations with DAZ or anyone else, I'm simply a very happy V3 owner. She is by far the most versatile model I've ever worked with (and two models in one with her male morphing capabilities), and in the long run that saves you money, rather than costing you more.

I've spent more money than I'd like to admit on V2 products as well, but lately I've begun to realize something that I feel is often forgotten. If you're sending yourself to the poorhouse and not having fun working with Poser, then you're doing something wrong. The program was meant to help you create art, not headaches. There are some extraordinary artists out there who work with minimal "extras" and still produce beautiful creations with Poser (and Photoshop, of course). In fact, most of those considered "Masters of Poser" don't use fancy props and clothing models in their work. Take a look at Will Kramer, Cris Palomino, or Daniel Scott Gabriel Murray's work and you'll see what I mean. Its not necessary to open your wallet everytime you realize there's something missing from your library, I'm still coming to terms with that fact myself. I'm in the same boat as the rest of you, I'm just learning to dog paddle. ;)

Molly

Poppi: I lobbed off V3's head and chopped a bit of the bottom neck off so it was square and it seemed to fit pretty darn good with no scalling nessisary. What I couldnt do was load up any morphs though but I was in a hurry and didnt export it correctly, it still had all of the material settings and mapping for V3. Someones going to have to glue it togeather though I havent got that far in my poser learning curve yet.

Molly...good point. But some of us buy clothes because we LIKE them. Also, to be quite frank, I'm tired of the Photoshop post-work airbrush look I see way too much of. I saw a Will Kramer pic over at PPros the other day. It was magnificent, but made me yawn at the same time. They all start looking the same after a while. Not that Poser renders with little touchup are all that different, it's just that postwork isn't the solution so many think it is.

Hisminky, I agree and understand the frustration. I've purchased only one 3rd party clothing set for V3 and really don't plan anymore except for Daz stuff. Daz is putting V3 morphs into its clothing which makes it a much better value. May not be 'fair' but the other vendors are going to have to lower prices or come up with something special before I'll fork out the money. I guess we can let the 'market' work itself out. If things don't sell, prices may have to be lowered. Though I've found most vendors usually stop making products rather than daring to sell cheaper. A check back on this subject in three or four months will be interesting. But, the other thing that bothers me, personally, is that I don't want to use Vicky 3 as a high-res stand-in for V2. Can't explain it, but V3 is so magnificent she deserves better than that! But exactly what I want for her I haven't figured out yet. I wouldn't mind paying a modest amount, though, for updates to current clothing so it works with V3. Have the tailor and have had mixed results when doing it myself. But I'm not going to purchase the same things twice at full price! Vendors complain that it's a lot of work. Yes, it is, but each piece gets easier and easier with practice so I don't fully accept that! There's one popular vendor whose stuff I love who has a new package out for V2. Also has a version for BOTH V2 and V3. No version for just V3. I don't understand it. In order to get this outfit for V3 I have to buy it for V2 too?!?!?

To me, it's more than the geometry. There are textures that have been made (or purchased) for existing items, which might become useless as we move away from the old V2 figures. As for refitting the clothes to the new model, I have been doing some work, and found that some things go very nicely, and others (often ones you would expect to go easily) just don't work at all. Tailor hasn't been useful for me, but I might have been working on the wrong garments at the time.) Do the items that you modify simply using scaling and the joint converter pose as the original? In order to get anything to bend properly, I have had to manually rename body parts, change the hierarchy and finally do some additional tweaking of the joints myself (thanks Geep!) After that, I have had luck, but it is a fair amount of work. Most of the comments I have seen was that folks were going to create new items, rather than update their original items. Their reasoning is often that there is a lot of work involved to do it right, but that their skills have improved since then and starting fresh would allow them to create nicer items. While I understand this, it still is frustrating to know that they aren't considering their customers as much as I think they should. It is this attitude that has allowed me to be very careful about spending money on V3 products that are currently available (or not spending it). Finally, I too would like to see a figure based on the v3 head and the v2 body. I made a quick attempt this afternoon, but the necks are just too different. Not simply the matter of neck/upperneck business. Nope there are gaps at either the base of the head, or the top of the chest, depending on which neck is used, and will require geometry modification beyond my lowly skills (and probably different software) I wouldn't be surprised if DAZ were to offer something (not unlike their Vicky2P4 cr2s....only using the actual mesh from the other body.) This time, the UV is already done, so it might require less effort (financially feasible) eric

As far as I see it, Vicky 3 is a new and very improved model. As such she inevitably needs new thing to encompass her new features. At least her new clothes respond to her morphs - I was frustrated with my old Vickys coz any clothes you got never morphed. If you owned a cassette player with loads of cassettes then you probaly felt miffed when CD players came out and needed you to buy new CDs for it. Well this is the same isn't it. The V3-V2 lets you use most of the old clothes (which as I pointed out did not have morphs in them anyway) and you can get V3 stuff as and when. It may seem unfair but I guess progress costs. I love V3 and feel that the fantastic resolution and improved bends etc make her a worthwhile investment. I shall step off of my soap box now :) :)

Elgyfu...you have an excellent point! Most of the V2 clothes don't have morphs anyway so it doesn't matter that the V3 to V2 body doesn't have them either. But I've tried using that figure to make use of my wardrobe and she just doesn't look like Vicky 3 at all. Even changing her face...guess the body shape is sooooo different from V2.

It's not as if all those V2 clothes were now useless. You can still use V2 even if you have V3. I use V1, V2, V3, Posette, Eve 3 and Eve 4 as circumstances require. What I spent on accessories for pre-V3 models is certainly not wasted.

Well, it is wasted if you like Vicky 3 so much it's painful to go back! What annoys me is that I'm not seeing anything converted for V3 besides hair and boots. And be careful of the stuff for both V2 and V3. Often the V3 stuff is just optimized for her and doesn't really work all that well. Or so I've heard. I think a couple of things are happening. The learning curve hasn't been totally overcome for one. For another I'm sure some vendors are looking at their sales of V2 stuff, calculating what percentage who bought such and such have now got V3, then what percentage of those would pay something to update. The numbers probably don't look good enough for them so screw us. Sigh. There are some types of clothing, I'm sure, that need to be redone from scratch, but certainly not all. Vendors aren't the only ones with families to feed.

I take elgyfu and ericofSD word on this : V3 is very good for close-ups where you want an almost photographic look. Since these are not the kind of images I do, I'll pas on V3. I also like scenes involving several characters. This leads to images with at least 2 figures, 4 or 6 additional figures for clothes, some props and a background. Don't know if these can be done with V3s : Poser 5 chews at my RAM enough for the time being. It is not to say that V3 is not a great product. It is just something that will ask too many efforts and too much money from me for the small use I'll have of it. But, admitedly, I cannot be considered a "Poser Master" by far. Compiler

I LOVE v3's face. But, so far i have only used v3-v2 for the body. i exported v3 into rhino, and, see that the mesh is cut differently at the shoulder and knee from v2. however, i am just wondering if, in the future, when folks make models, they could double up on those cuts, and make for v3 and v2. doesn't seem like all that incredibly much work....but, i still don't understand all about the jcms, though.

I will be converting some of my packages to V3 when she gets finalized and I get around to figuring out how to do the JCMs, and all my updates will be free. Of course that means that you will have to wait for me to do them, LOL Because some of them require some mesh level fixes (V3 has no upper neck body part) I think it will be 3 months or more before you see alot of new stuff being made for V3 like is being made for V2. She is just too new at this point, and yes there is a learning curve. Clothing makers need time to build stuff :)

i tried running them through the tailor, and got a bad 4168 channel message, and it aborted. i tried it 3 times...won't work for me. but, but, but....I'm still THINKING...there must be a way. shoot...even if i have to make a new neck/chest piece...there must be a way...right? i love v3. her face is awesome. well, if i just have to tailor my clothes...and, then, shudder...DO SOME POSTWORK...i will still use her. she rocks!!! her dimples don't look like dirty spots on her cheeks.

traveller...i just make my own stuff. you are very good at what you do. if you get a chance...yeah right, when you get a couple more free hours in your days....could you explain about the jcm problems? can pwizard pose the v3 new clothing in a snap? or, must we go back and struggle through nerd's old tutorial? then, i read one concept, that you put all variables, that are not set to 0 or 1 to 0? is that the way? could you please send me a clue or two?

I am not sure it's a problem, I just need to learn how to construct the morphs needed in the clothing, by studying what they do in V3. When it comes time to hook up the morphs in the .cr2 I will use Ajax's easy pose underground. That sets up JCM, etc real easy. I don't know the actual mechanics of the things, about the time I was learning how to do it by hand the underground came out, and there wasn't any need after that :) Like I said above, one of the other issues is the lack of an upper neck in V2, so I will have to recut a few of my items. Also

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Traveler, you are my hero in more ways than one! Thank you thank you thank you!