Can someone tell me if i purchase a daz3d texture for V3 can i modify it (put fantasy makeup on it) and post it in the free stuff area?

I really doubt you can since it would still be heavily based on that copyrighted texture.

That would not be allowed. Commercial items are not meant to be used as development or resource tools to make freebies or other products. This includes mesh, morphs and textures. Actually there isn't anything I can think of that would be allowed. These are the big things to avoid. Never use Daz morphs to make characters. This is not allowed. Morphs must be from scratch with no help from Daz morphs even at the lowest settings. This is something we were lax about with V2 we are watching closely now. Don't use Daz meshes as a starting point. Like textures and morphs, the work must be completely from scratch. Doing to for your private use is one thing but must not be shared. I know you were just asking about the texture but since others will read this I wanted to cover the basics. Hope that helps. Anton Daz3d.com

You can't do this without permision & since this is not a free texture I dont think you'll get one.However if you did that in psd format and you have the layers with the makeup you can post this file without the base texture.

Anton, am i correct that your comment on morphs and characters mean that there won't be any (well maybe a few...) chars for Vic 3 other than pure texture since more or less everyone was using Vic 2 base morphs to create their Vic 2 chars!?

Hey that seams like a good idea, as along as people have photoshop, Thanxs alot Claire xxx

You can also follow pitklad's ideas in PSP as that also has layers. Alex

Pink, People can distribute pose files only. Using Daz morphs for third party characters was never allowed. Too many people just looked the other way. The morphs are not commercial tools for vendors. People can still do characters using custom morphs and pose files. But spinning dials and spawning a new morph is not a valid "custom" morph. We are slowly looking into V2, Michael, and Stephanie characters, so if anyone cheated please take them down before we come across them. This includes filtering the morphs onto the MilGirls. All these things should be explained to vendors and checked by store management at all Poser stores. Anton

Hey does anyone know of the tutorial by Pitklad for using layers in PSP Alex is talking about. Where can i find it?

I understand Anton, but then what you don't want is people making money with your morphs, now if they want to create a char from your morphs and ditribute the extracted "custom morph" as a free stuff, would it be ok then? PS: rereading your answer, i guess people could still sell a pose file (.cr2?) that put all dials the way they want to create a new char. right? The it is just that i don't see much difference between a pose file and the corresponding extracted "custom" morph! (beside that you can't see the exact original dial positions in a "custom" morph).

It's pretty simple if you think about it, I reckon, from the point of view of the vendor/artist. You can't just spin a few dials and spawn a morph and then hope to sell that - at least not without declaring source and paying a license fee to the vendor (AFAIK DAZ aren't implimenting this idea at present) as there's not enough actual original effort being put in. You CAN use magnets, 3-rd party 3D editing programs (3DS Max, Rhino, Cinema4D etc. etc.) to create totally original morphs not based on just spinning a few dials, and sell the resulting morphs as "new characters for" the model they're based on (provided you remove info like the face data - known as "squishing" I think). Vicky3 provides a comparatively new and interesting way - albiet not as friendly to P5 as P4 - of adding such character data to models with less technical know-how needed by the end-user (INJection Morphs). I assume "face files" (also known as "expressions"?) would be both sellable and feeebie-able because they don't contain the hard work of the original artists... but so-called "custom morphs" or "custom characters" which are actually based on existing morphs from DAZ rather than "real 3d work2 using magnets and/or 3D modelling tools are "to be frowned on" (possibly from a great height).

Rattler, The V3 base is there for people who are capable of making new morphs from scartch. If was never okay to use Michael and Vicki morphs to make new morphs for sale or for download. Custom morphs need to be squished so people do not have access to the mesh without owning the figure.

What about all the morphs for Posette? She may not be Daz's property, but the issues are the same.

Ok I am now confused,
If you make a vampire. I make the face as a custom morph lets say in rhino.
But a pose file calls the fangs dial to 100.
It this allowed?

Thanx Nos4ra2...I was begining to get concerned about all the dial change poses/morphs I was going to include in my upcoming zonbie texture set....but I assume those dial changes are simply concidered poses, and not causing any violation (right?)

From what I've read in the past n0s4ra2 your pose file would be ok as long as it doesn't include the actual morph target .obj, if it's just turning the dial it's perfectly safe :)

I hope I didn't cause the confusion? Let's have another go. You make a vampire that's as good as your Orc in rhino - that's a morph or maybe an INJection morph for Mike/Vicky2/Vicky3/whatever character you started with. You "squish" it so that there's no actual mesh, UV textures or normals - just a dot cloud. that's legal to "share" (free or for money). If you include a pose file which uses an existing "fangs" dial which sets the fangs AND your custom morph, that is also good. If you make a morph in rhino which uses any existing copyrighted morph you're on slightly dodgy ground - though you should be OK with any morph that came as part of the base package. HOWEVER - if you use a paid-for morph (fangs) which is an add-on to the character to make your rhino morph from, and provide it as just a morph, then there's some trouble. Because you're providing (potentially) some of the functionality of a copyrighted morph pack to your customers without their having to buy the original (copyrighted) morph pack. That's at the ehart of this whole deal I suspect - that although there's range in everything, there have to be black-and-white rules for everyone to follow. So from the DAZ POV if you "need" to purchase more than the base model to create a unique "character" then people you want to share this with should NEED to purchase the same add-on pack to re-create your design faithfully. Does that help or make it worse? (sorry - answered a tech support call in the middle so may have got lost).

Correct - Pose files don't contain copyright stuff, and the user has to obtain the original product in order for the pose file to work. So that's cool :)

This could get ugly, no? Who's to say if a squished morph contains .010 of "Mouth Narrow"? My guess? It's impossible to tell. But DAZ will be "closely examining" marketed characters for morphs that contain even the slightest bit of theirs. So, what is the method used to determine? I remember a post when V3 came out that pretty much said "Look, we can just TELL, okay?" which implies that the method used is totally esoteric. Which means DAZ, essentially, is on a Witch-hunt. -WTB

bookmarkin this one. been thinkin about the layerin of psd or psp files say for tatoo's. could sell the 'layers' and apply them on any figure texture then I would assume. wha is squishin? I understand using the base figure mesh to pull, tweak etc the mesh and creating a morph of just that information, but that "part" that is the mesh is still the mesh, how do you get that as non copyrighted morph info back into poser? ** I think I need to go back and re-read geep's tut on morphs**

c1rcle is correct. Poses are fine. Spawned morphs from Daz morphs aren't. Actually Posette is not owned by CL. She is liscenced to CL for each version of Poser. Same thing applies. Proprietary figure morph should ever be used to make another third party product or download. Poser content is not open source. "If it ain't from scratch, there's always a catch"

Squishing a morph is removing all lines except those that start with "v" from the obj file. This new obj file is considered "squished" and can only be used as a morph in poser. This protects the copyright of the mesh. Darth, don't stir the pot ok? try to be constructive.

Okay. The way I see it, you don't want people who haven't bought the morphs to benefit from the morphs, correct? It's not a matter of protecting the mesh, because morph squishing does this effectively. So, what if a spawned morph target that contained fractions of your morphs along with original material such as magnet work or the like were both squished and coded with Mover against the original installer exe for whichever morph pak applies? This insures they own the morph pak in question. The reason I ask these questions is because making Characters IS HARD WORK. I try to do likenesses, and it often takes 25 versions before something decent emerges. This can take several months sometimes, and results in 400 pose files and a dozen spawned morph targets. In short, it is impossible to have one pose file at the end of the process. So, if the result DAZ wants is to protect the sales of the Morph Paks, the squisher/Mover solution works just as well to that end as does the Pose file solution. There's your constructive. Now, I must politely ask that you cease telling me what to say/not say. I call them as I see them, and I'm really interested in this process you are going to use as you closely inspect items for elements of your morphs. When someone tells me to shut up, that just makes me think I'm hitting something pretty near the truth. -WTB

HELLO i thought this my my post, well i guess it's been highjacked. Let the battle commence....

It's practically identical to othr areas of "software". If you buy a Relational Database Management system (e.g. Access with developers kit) you're usually allowed to design practically anything with it and sell on - except a Relational Database Management System. You can usually sell on anything you write in a computer language (such as, say, visual Basic) EXCEPT for a competing computer language.. and so on and so forth. There are, of course, "grey areas" in any area of life - but the rules pretty much have to be black-and-white to be halfway comprehensible.

hmm, cross-posted. Now doesn't THAT phrase have more than 1 meaning? Not that I'm trying to inject any humour here, oh no... :)

back onto the topic of textures n daz... So Daz is the only one that is allowed to make makeup packs for V3 then? or are the makeup mat files seperated from the actual texture. I'm still new to creating poser stuff so I'm a bit confused.

MachineClaw - anyone can create makeup packs for V3 as long as they don't use any part of a previously created copyright texture as part of their content. In other words, you would have to create a completely new body and/or head texture set for them. A way around using the MATs for existing textures would be to supply a set of layered (Photoshop style) files for the customer to apply to another texture, along with "how to's", and MAT Pose files which would only work after the buyer has taken the necessary steps to set up their textures.

Tif with alpha would also work, and I think (24-bit) PNG with alpha. The cut-down version of Corel PhotoPaint I used for a while had no PSD import/export though I imagine that was fairly unusual.

Also back on the original question! In Renderosity's Free Stuff, there is a V3 "seam guide" for both head and body. If you use this in something like Photoshop (or GIMP), you can create all the makup textures you like. First create a "skin texture" following the seam guide - there are several tutorials on how to do this; essentially fiddle till you find a good skin color, noisify it, and then add highlighs and shadows - then create your custom makeup on top of it. Complicated, but totally legal to re-distribute for free or pay! (Though it would be awful nice to kick back at least a copy of the item to those who put the seam guide in freestuff in the first place.) I seem to recall seeing a "base skin texture" in freestuff as well, but I'm not sure whether it was for V3, or what re-distribution conditions were set on it. April Follies

William, no it means your being annoying. lol. Lighten up. No amount of Daz morphs, however small, can be used to create characters for sale or distribution in any form. Period. If poses are not used, then all morphs must be from scratch. Only the JCM morphs in the base are allowed in the cr2. I think that pretty much covers everything in triplicate. Sorry cmjackson for highjacking. later, Anton

this is going to be tough to prove with spawned morphs, especially if they have brought the spawned morph into a 3d modeling program and have done further alterations to it. Its going to get to the point like trying to copyright dial settings, which you also cannot do. CR2s were allowed to be distributed in the distant past, hope some don't get a nasty wakeup call when they find out what they thought was legal to distribute and passed testing, isn't allowed anymore. And many clothing items have matching morphs to correspond to Daz morphs on associated characters... how far is this going to be taken? Sounds like something going to get real ugly. I totally understand being tough on folks that outright rip stuff off, but there is a fine line you have to tread as well. You want people to still expand the work, while protecting the work. Its not easy, I sure don't envy the work it takes... I know I can't cope with it at all and so I don't make my custom characters/morphs/props for distribution very often anymore. anyway, more reasons not to sell/distribute stuff not based on your own meshes or work... I keep all my customised Daz stuff for me and distribute none of it, that way I know I'm in the clear with no headaches. :)

That's it. Now I'm pissed off. Watch for exciting new thread. -WTB

Guys this is nothing new. This is not a new policy. All this was said when Vicki 1.0 was released. Please don't read more into what I said than I said. Don't panik. :) Like I said this is nothing new. Just a bit of coomon sense and ethics and everyone should be fine. If in doubt just email us. Anton Darth, please don't freak out. You are reading way more into what I said that I did say or even meant. It wasn't meant seriously or as an attack. :)

What's there to be pissed off about? I don't understand how DAZ, who have been ripped off to no end (yet continue to show good faith and trust in their customer base) can be said to be on a witch hunt for choosing to enforce their intellectual property rights. What's so awful about starting from scratch? I know it takes more skill, work, patience, and knowledge, but at least the work would be something the artist could be fully proud of.

This is starting to read like the situation we had just a few months ago (EULA headaches) it nearly tore the community apart last time, lets not start it again.

well rereading this thread would mean: Traveler would have to stop distributing Eve/Azura on his page, due to DAZ copyright violations. So would Arduino with his version of Eve. This would apply to the WWG and other assorted old custom characters which have been distributed in the past with OBJAction Mover. Ratteler wouldn't be able to work with Daz to create a V3RR character with the compatible V3 morphs. (which in another thread, Daz is happy for him to work on this, so long as its brokered through them and following the constraints they put in place with distribution) William is right, how can you tell when 25+ morphs at 0.10 or so are used, magnets applied, then spawned out and then more morphing operations done in a 3d program to make a face look like someone in particular? I'm NOT for anyone doing this and selling it, quite the opposite really. But being devil's advocate here, I'm sure its going to be damn hard to tell if its got your work in it or not, and even harder to legally prove in court. And when its based on a DAZ mesh, DAZ is really the copyright holder anyway, so anyone, even with original non-Daz third party morphs, are sliding on a slippery slope in favour of the copyright violator or the original copyright owner when it comes to enforcing any kind of copyright on their work. again, after thinking, I'm glad all my custom chars stay on my harddrive. I own all my renders of my characters at least! ;-)

I thought there was a huge discussion about a year ago in which DAZ said that cr2 distribution was okay, just not .obj. Color me confused.

I've seen many Steph, Mike and Vic 1 characters distributed via CR2, especially those with changed joint parameters/changed geometry - which have no choice but to be distributed via CR2. So yeah, I'm confused as well.

Some of the .cr2 files contain proprietary morphs, such as Victoria 2, Michael 2, etc. In the DAZ FAQ, it does state that you can use the base Victoria.cr2 or Mike.cr2 because they don't contain morphs. The V2.cr2, etc., do contain the actual morphs sold as the V2 upgrade.

thanks for the clarification :)

So as long as we use the version 1 of these characters, it's okay?

"That would not be allowed. Commercial items are not meant to be used as development or resource tools to make freebies or other products. This includes mesh, morphs and textures. Actually there isn't anything I can think of that would be allowed.

These are the big things to avoid.

Never use Daz morphs to make characters. This is not allowed. Morphs must be from scratch with no help from Daz morphs even at the lowest settings. This is something we were lax about with V2 we are watching closely now.

Don't use Daz meshes as a starting point. Like textures and morphs, the work must be completely from scratch.

Doing to for your private use is one thing but must not be shared. I know you were just asking about the texture but since others will read this I wanted to cover the basics. Hope that helps.

Anton
Daz3d.com"

Lemme get this straight... I create a character for Victoria 3... the character uses only morphs from the packs available at DAZ right now... I create a mor pose for the character... no CR2s, morphs or anything else is included, only a pose to tell it what to set each morph to... In order to use the character, a person would have to purchase the existing morph packs from DAZ3D... According to your statement, because I used only DAZ morphs, even though none of them are included, I can't distribute the character?

Ha! Jim doesn't use DAZ morphs to make his characters! My characters based on original Vickie have the Vickie I morphs present, but DAZ has always said that was O.K. - you can't buy her without them. Same for V3 and Stephanie. I make my characters the old fashioned way, in modeling program, not by creative dial turning.

oh boy .. here we go again You cannot modify and redistribute a commercial texture ... layers are the best bet. Someone had a great PSD makeup file for Victoria that I use all the time. Daz has a full writeup of how to distribute V and M characters on their FAQ Bottom line: pose files and face files are ok to distrubte for any character Now play nice you guys ... Lyrra

okay....i never ever thought that any combination of dial twisting created, or constituted an actual "morph". to me, making a morph is: say taking vicki's head into rhino, and, say, pulling the points around her eye to create a new shape. then, that head, with the new shape becomes my morph target....however, if i were ever to sell any of my little morphs, i would have to include the mesh with the new eye shape, as the morph target. how would one go about doing this type of sale, without the actual changed mesh object?

Poppi, I offered a great solution but nobody wants to know. -WTB

Poppi, you would have to squish your morph (as WTB mentioned earlier) and then distribute it that way. BUT that's only if it is entirely yours, and by you saying you did them in Rhino means they are (if you started with stock standard V1/2/3). You can also use injection files (like V3) to inject your morphs into the vicki base character. Or, if you're only using Vicki 1/2 who don't have extra slots for injection, you can use a technique which gets named all sorts of things, but is basically morph replacement. You use an existing channel within a cr2 and replace it with your own morph. I have done it frequently, and it is Daz approved as my Phoebe character (Aiko based) using this mehtod and the Phoebe morphs replace all the 'animemale' morphs within the cr2. It can be done via pz2 and is the most effecient way to distribute your own morphs (again, like WTB wants to do) without any lengthy setup by the end user, like importing morphs for every single body part. The solutions to distributing morphs are already there, you just need to learn them.

I guess I don't get the concern. If you develop something that can only be used on Vicky or Mike, then what's the problem in distributing it? It's sorta like saying, if I develop a steering wheel that fits a 56 Chevy, I can't sell it without Chevrolet's permission, even though you have to have the Chevy to do anything with it in the first place. Third-parties create customized pieces of cars all the time, without Detroit's batting an eye, because Detroit knows it'll still have the customer. So will DAZ, so this whole control thing just seems a little short-sighted. To me, anyway.

You have to remember DAZ's main intrest here is (very rightly) protecting what they sell. They don't want people to use any of their for-sale stuff without paying for it, as that is how they make their money, after all. You buy it, you can use it, while they give away stuff, but they don't what to give away what they sell, if you get my drift. They don't sell any version of Victoria that doesn't come with the original Vickie I morphs, so they don't have any concern about them being included in a CR2, they can't be used on another mesh, of course, anyway. Same with the Vickie III JCM ones. Stephanie, incidently, is a special case, as her base does include some that can be used on Mike, thus they have a redistributable CR2 that should be used for characters like my Pin-up Stepanie. Actually, most of my figures are usable without any of the DAZ morphs (other than JCM ones), as they are so decorative you don't mind them standing around, not being able to close their eyes, or open their mouths. ;-)

okay...this technical distribution stuff, i can figure out, with some help. i never sell my stuff...just not enough time, with my real world business. however, i'd like to be able to if i wanted to....shakey economy, and all that. yes, my morphs are made in rhino. but, i would have to include a daz mesh, as the morph target. xena...where can i find the morph squasher? because, even though i am making more money than i did last year, it doesn't go as far...and, i actually might sell something one of these days, to pay for some of my fun. i thought all the hoopla with the daz eula was straightened out. i have all the vickis. i am not sure how to do the v3 injection thing for morphs of my own, but, i can learn. wtb...repeat your solution... i read the thread that was locked. but, i am tired, and need it put very simply.