....have come and gone in the last say 4 - 5 years? Why do I ask, because as I go through the net, I see so many good, really good models out there. Web page has been abandoned or just brings up errors. Looks like they have been around a while and then just disappeared. Why did they go, where did they go....did they die off due to, to many other sites killed them with freebies, or killed them cause there is not enough interest...I am just wondering. Sharen

or killed them with mass downloaders.... I'd estimate a quarter of the 3d sites I had bookmarked 2 years ago are gone now, if not more. It is simply because most people see free stuff for download, and have to download it all right then... Most site's bandwidth just can't handle it. The site is forced to go under or become a paysite, or remove thier free content because of the greed and impatience of those who leech a site dry. Bookmark it...download a few items at a time. No need to take them all in one fell swoop.

I find a lot are gone as well. I understand about massive downloading, but... I admit if I find a site with things I like or think I might need... I take them, cause as this thread addresses, if I don't, down the road I need something. I search through my bookmarks and finally find the site...and it's gone. I have got over the greedy, gimmie it all syndrom that I think we all go through in the beginning, I'm much more selective, but I still have those times when I need something obscure and kick myself for not getting it when I could.

I have just started to notice, even some really good modelers that were here are now gone, or you hardly ever see them anymore. Some real talent has been pushed out, or just lost in this shuffle.I feel bad about them. I started this thread because I wanted to know from the people who come here what they think, or have they noticed some of the greats are gone. Over this past week, Mike and I received 2 emails from 2 other modelers. They got together and wrote us a letter, to summarize it, they told us that because we offer so many free models that they have lost alot of money due to the fact that they sell their models. Alot of their models are similar to ours. Mike and I really took this letter to heart. With everything else happening to us this week, we wanted to stop and really examine these 2 people. Good, kind and hard working people, they addressed it kindly to us, but are indeed upset. So this is why I asked you good people....and you modelers, merchants etc. What are your views on this? We do not want to take money away from anyone, we thought the pie was big enough...but maybe we were wrong. We are honestly trying to get some good solid answers...Please advise us. Thank you. Sharen

If it is a freebie site, I take only what I need. If it is a "membership" site I take everything even the Logo... I know of at least 3 memebership sites that burned me. I paid 1 years dues, and the next time I go to the site it is gone. The worst one , I paid for a year, used it one time, 2 weeks later I get an E-mail offering old memebers a big discount to a new site started by one of the co-owners of the old site, checked the old site and it was gone... without notice, and gone forever. Be very careful when you join a Membership site, be sure to check around and see if it has a life history, and how often the site is updated, and how good is the service. And on a HIGH note, POSERWORLD is the Best memebership club I have joined.

Personally, I think Sams3d strikes the perfect balance between nice and regular freebies and decently priced quality products. Perhaps these other two folks could emmulate some of the techniques that keep folks coming to Sams3d.com. That reminds me, i haven't been by this week. I'm off to check it out.

LOL...thanks Brent, but these people were very kind, just I think sad, that they are working so hard and I do really understand and respect that. Mike and I were wondering how many merchants do loose from free models out there. We are not trying to start a war, just want to know what is effected by free models with other merchants. And Niles, you are to cute, (take the logo...LOL) although I do agree with you on all accounts. Sharen

Sites and people dissapear because: 1.) Lack of interest 2.) Lack of respect/recognition/courtesy 3.) Bandwidth Issues (seems to be the biggest cause these days) 4.) They don't make enough money at it. (Merchant Side) Sharen, I don't think you guys should change your outlook on how you do business. You two are some of the top community minded modelers out there, your freebies are fantastic! Your dedication to the community should be rewarded, not called into question by someone in the business. Keep on doing what you are doing, have fun with it, and listen to your customers, not the competiition. The customers and community are the ones who count, and you have alot of them pulling for you :) -Trav

Sharen, I buy models form many different sites. I look for quaility models that fit my needs, if I can find what I need as a free model I use it. As far as taking money from other modelers, I doubt it... That is just how a free market place works, and your free models, to me it is just a good way to advertise you site.

Hmmm, take it as a compliment, I think. I foresee a time in the near future when it will be impossible to sell static models to the poser/bryce community. Glancing through the marketplace, I see quite a few model sets for sale that are of lower quality than the freestuff that is available, often dramatically lower quality. I think the future for merchants in this community will be in posable figures, be it clothing or origional figures, or in very tightly packaged props complete with several highly detailed textures... Untextured, simple props are too available as freestuff for anyone in thier right mind to try to sell. Good posable figures, on the other hand, are somewhat rare amongst the freestuff out there, although exceptions exist. I should note that the quality of both freestuff and marketplace material has improved dramatically in the past few years. If it is put up for sale, make sure it is of high quality...

Thanks Traveler, I appreciate your words and respect them. You are right of course. I guess it just sort of took us by surprise. Didn't think we were really causing harm. But I think maybe we are hurting some. Sharen

I think people will always grab up freebies, but when it comes time to put a piece together, they may spend the money for the "perfect" item.

Don't feel bad, you do much for the 3D community. If their product can compare in quality to that which you share, they should have no problem making sales. There will always be competition, if not you, then someone else. Would they be happier if everyone bought the items you give away?

Take comfort in knowing that your freebies are very much appreciated.

Mark

Three overall comments: 1. The pie is -not- constant. At any point in any art or science, some people complain that "everything has already been invented". This type of thinking leads to the kind of anxious complaints you're receiving; people worry that one good product somehow "takes away" from another. But in fact there's always a new horizon, or a new branch of the art, yet to be discovered. 2. Sooner or later these unbalanced situations will reach a balance, when most people are charging for most of their work. "Free for the taking" can't last very long. 3. Don't worry about trying to fix the situation by changing your own values! The balance will happen on its own, because lots of other "builders" are making their own decisions, which will tend more toward charging for their work, and at the same time lots of "customers" are realizing that the only way to get good stuff is to pay for it. The transition is sort of uncomfortable, but the best way to make it happen properly is to look out for your own interests!

All fields of enterprise require growth and evolution in order to not stagnate and die off. If a bar has been set, then it is up to others to reach that bar and improve their offerings if they wish to remain competative. If it were not for such re-setting of bars, we would all be stuck with working with Dork or Posette exclusivly......and I am sure many people fully appreciate the expansion of use generated by Mike and Vicky. There is never anything wrong with re-setting the bar. You keep doing what you are doing....we all benefit from it. Rawnrr

Your last freebie... perfect with RDNAs Hummer... how about that for sharing the pie, I know 2 people tht got the hummer, "after" your last freebie.

Sharen, I've read all the above comments and agree wholeheartedly with Traveller on this one. Don't change what you do because other people say they are losing money because of you...that just proves how popular your models are. I love your freebies but I've also bought from you as well as many other modellers. You and Mike have a great reputation because of your community spirit and good will. You've proven it to me in the past with your great donations to my contests. People change as time changes - their lives move on but I think the biggest factor in why these sites are disappearing is due to the fact that a lot of free sites have disappeared...I think the biggest change came about when Geocities pulled the rug on all the wonderful free sites they had...their population must have went down really fast as people moved out. Keep up the good work Guys!! :) Irene

I've got to agree totally with Traveler, you do produce some of the finest work, both free and retail. Unfortunately for some, the market is an evolving beast, and as it grows, then there has to be change, it is, after all, the only constant. You do an outstanding job, and should feel no guilt for either what you do, nor how you do it. :-) Andi

The worst one , I paid for a year, used it one time, 2 weeks later I get an E-mail offering old memebers a big discount to a new site started by one of the co-owners of the old site, checked the old site and it was gone... without notice I know exactly who this is, and it's a little amazing no one's said anything publicly about this. I got stung on it too -- what a rip.

Well, as a bit of anecdotal evidence: I asked a friend for RDNA's MicroCosm for my birthday. One of the primary reasons is that I've downloaded tones of RDNA freestuff, and been highly impressed by its quality. I downloaded the free SkyDome, played with it, and said, wow, if this is that good, I gotta get me the whole set. So... don't think of it as undercutting other modellers. Think of it as the best possible advertising of your own works. :) I am complete amateur-pathetic when it comes to modeling. I don't hold any grudges 'cause no one's likely to buy my amateurish attempts. I think people should only pay for quality stuff anyhow. If I want to get money for it, it's up to me to take the time and trouble to produce something of quality. Judging from current progress, expect something in a decade or so. ;) Besides, few can afford to buy all of the huge spread of items needed for a good variety of renders over time. Quality freestuff makes much more diversity possible, which is always a good thing. April Follies

Sharen, I stay away from the Andy Griffith and cottage stuff just because you all do such a wonderful job at it. I don't feel that you are forcing me out of business. If I did anything along your lines I would feel like I am cutting into your business. The pool is still very big and a lot of things have not been covered. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to get out of the way and let them have a market you established in the first place. A lot of my early 3ds freestuff is hosted at reebo's meshyard. He didn't quit, he got a full time paying job and no longer updates the site as a hobby. Quite a few of the freesites are abandoned because someone got a better offer. They're gone because they succeded somewhere else rather than failed at modeling. I admit I was a little non plussed for about half a day recently. I had just decided to update my frankslab freestuff as a poser object. I finished the castle walls when kurokuma and CryptoPooka released their excellent poserstein set. They had done all the other electrical dodads I was going to do for my expanded set. I thought about it and realised I hadn't modeled any of the items yet. I didn't fire off a heated letter cussing them out for interfering with what I was about to do. There's no way they would know what I was thinking anyway. Instead of modeling more electrical dodads I made a Chemistry table and an operating table. I also delayed the release until after I finished my Temple of Set. When my set comes out if anyone wants electrical gizmos for it they should buy the poserstein set. I'm not making any now. Rather than getting pissed about it or throwing away what I had done I just took a step to the right for the people who clearly got to the market first. I appreciate how hard it is to start a business. I also would hate to have to feed myself on my for-sale items. Still, it's a kick to get a check every month for something I finished last year and haven't touched since. I hope to eventually work up to where I am getting little bits from a lot of items that ammount to serious money. I think your letter writers expected an immediate big payoff. It's wrong for them to say your freestuff put them out of business. Don't get upset. You were here first and have a right to be where you are.

Sharen - I respect your sensitivity towards these merchants who wrote you, I really do. OTOH, as merchants, if they wanna sell something, they should be prepared to face the market head-on, and without special favors. If the merchants in that letter don't have the perquisite imagination and creativity to make and market something above and beyond a decent freebie, that isn't your problem to deal with - it's theirs. /P

Penguinisto and Sharen, do you remember last year when one modeller was receiving threats and hate mail because of the freebies they produced? Seems to me the thing you're describing, Sharen, is a softer variation on the same theme.

Sharen, It wouldn't matter what you were selling or giving away... if someone didn't have enough imagination and skill to make a product people wanted s/he would find an excuse to blame folks who are already out there producing. The "we were pushed out by the glut in the market" excuse doesn't wash. If so, then not one of the game companies would be making baseball, street fighter, or run-through-the-halls-and-shoot-it games. Guess what 95% of the shelves will be filled with this holiday season? I can hardly wait for the anti-hero with the rocket-powered baseball gun. :deep sigh: Those letter writers ought to examine the market (if they want to do this as their day-job) and try to create items we don't currently have, identify and establish a trend, or build a world of stuff featuring their particular "look". It is the same as any business opportunity. A hobbyist can do whatever they feel good doing and be delighted when others share that interest... and hope that it grows into a business. A business-person needs a plan. For example... in another thread the Christians were saying that they were a market, waving their wallets as a reason to get a gallery for their specific biblical images. If I were a modeler, needing a market, I could look at that opening and do a bit of research. Period stables for creche scenes? nada. Portions of The First, Second, or Third Temple? nada. Herod's Palace? nada. Roman tribunals? nada. Roman dice? nada. Carpentry shops with rustic near-eastern tools? nada. Palm leaves? nada. Money-changers and pigeon-sellers? nada. There is a quote on my fridge about never under-estimating the Christian market, because it is a hell of a business. Somebody is missing out on an opportunity to authentically build, furnish and dress and SELL a biblical world simply by providing what doesn't yet exist to an self-identified market. That is just one example. Off the top of my head I can think of a dozen other universes where there is a demonstrable market elsewhere and no related Poser props. Instead of complaining about lack of customers, and blaming the competition, a merchant needs to offer an attractive product. If they are smart about it, they will design a product line to ensure a long run of sales. Carolly

Sam - you're right... kinda sad that someone would feel that insecure - perhaps they shouldn;t be merchants? "Somebody is missing out on an opportunity to authentically build, furnish and dress and SELL a biblical world simply by providing what doesn't yet exist to an self-identified market." Indeed - PWFW has a huge selection of biblical clothing and Roman garb/armor/weapons. There seems to be a healthy variety of angel wings in the MP, too - not to mention a wide variety of poses for those wings. Lots of ancient scenery on sale in the RMP that has been pressed into service as biblical backdrops (though in the one render I made I used the mud huts found in Vue d' Esprit.) Find a niche people want, fill it, and the masses will come with open wallets - I agree perfectly. ;) (Incidentally, now that you mention it, Christian music, books, etc etc does make for a rather healthy industry out there... the music sales alone are something like $3 billion a year, and yet none of it would appear to fit with my collection of songs from Tool, NIN, Rob Zombie, and RATM. Go Figure.) /P

Sharen, You are an inspiration to us all. Your creativity, generosity and heart make this community a much richer place. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. - TJ

Oh I agree with Traveler to, Sharen. Unfortantly when something coms along that everyone can do there's a stampeed, everyone is going to be rich, ya ya. I can quit my job and make models all day and the money will roll in... ~poof~ the bubble bursts. Simliar to web page making. Everyone who could read a line of html was hanging out a shingle. The talented people who charged for their serves were ignored and closed shop. With modeling (I'm not a modeler) there is always going to be a turn over of talent. Some leave I think due to changing interests along with the other reasons others have listed. The free stuff I have I doubt very much that I would have bought. I would have worked around the problem if I needed it. I do buy from DNA, Sams, Daz and here. Also only have one subscription and that's poserworld. But I only buy those items that I really need. I really think the customers demand quaility when they buy now and are always going to favor the artist who treats their customers the best. You're doing it right, Sharon. Don't change. They are the ones that have to change their approach. Offer more bang for the buck... something to make them stand out. If they don't then they've got no one to blame except themselves. The internet is seems to be the last frontier for free interprize. It's up to them to carve their nich as you and the other sucessful sites have done.

Carolly hit it right on the head. there is a vast difference between having a hobby and enjoying it, and, hoping it will make you some money. if you want to use that hobby to make some money in these times...well, make something others want, instead of what is fun for you to make. i've seen wish lists, over and over, begging for some everyday vicki clothing. do i see alot of everyday vicki clothing for sale? nope. why???? 'cause so many who contribute to this cottage industry for profit still think they should reap profits off of what THEY want to make. the "creative artist" and the merchant need to meet in the middle. merchant should say to self....the crowd wants...x...and, there aren't many x's around. but the artist says...but, but, but...making little brown suits for middle aged corporate vicki...who has spread at the waist and sagged at the breast and ass....that is sooooo boring. i'd rather make temples, and temple accoutrements... okay, so vicki the middle aged cleaning lady, replete with cart, and, all the sprays and stuff that come with it may not feel "glamourous" if you are modelling it...but, someone might buy it. don't put a trip on the freestuff providers because you can't be innovative enough to scare up your own fresh american dollars. read the wish lists. granted, it is much more fun to model the likes of v3's morphing fantasy gown...but, is that what folks are clamboring for? Sharon...i am sorry these folks made you feel bad. you do real quality stuff...i even have a couple of your models. like samstherapy mentions...this has been done before, but, not as gently. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Sharen - Just keep doing what you've been doing. Although over the last few months i've purchased only 2 of your house models (the cottage and the Log cabin), I decided to get them because I was impressed with the quality of your freestuff. The pie is big enough, it's just that certain arts of the pie are a bit more crowded than others. People tend to cater to some of the potential markets while leaving others virtually untapped. Carolly's got the right idea, I think. Those other people would do good to find an untapped market and make models for that, then they would not only make a little more money, but they would help to fill a gap in the model supply.

You and Mike have done a good job marketing your site. You spend a ton of time at the forums....letting people know who you are, talking to people and letting them know about your products....not just the free stuff either. I'm not diminishing the efforts of the folks who contacted you, but you have to make yourself known to the community. I'm pretty familiar with your stuff and I've been sitting here trying to think of who is creating stuff like your free stuff, but for sale??? I'm not sure if this is all you guys do for a living, but if so, you are likely filling the need for that type of product. It's been said before: they should sit down and figure out what gap hasn't been filled and then work hard to be the one to fill it first. You know, in a way....contacting you like that and trying to put a "guilt trip" on you (because you and Mike are such nice people) was IMHO, a bit of a cheap shot. That may sound harsh, but I suppose my cynical side views what they did a bit like whining. We all control our own destiny....they should take control of theirs. I think Traveler probably summed up this general thinking better than I did, but I have a habit of being a bit to direct sometimes :) Keep doing what you're doing....it's what's makes you and Mike well loved and successful....what more could you ask for!! :)

Here's how I know you aren't putting anybody out of business. If I really want a model, and there are lesser models out there for free and something rather special and well done that cost money, I spend the money. Lets take something like benches-- so handy, you can sit Vicki in front of a photo and there's your scene with one prop. I've downloaded your benches and Trav's benches and I've bought Andix's benches. They all look good, nobody lost out. Honestly, I think some people think that free stuff is just for the unfinished not so good stuff that isn't worth selling. Some of it is, some of it is darn good advertising. I knew your truck would be great because everything else you made was also great. By the way, I hope Ernyoka is listening about the cleaninglady with the cart!!!!! Emily

This community wouldn't be what it is without the modelers who provide free stuff. They support the users on limited budgets which must hugely increase the userbase and they provide great resources for all of us. If there wasn't good freestuff available there would be far fewer members of Renderosity and merchants would find customers thin on the ground. Quality counts more than anything. If the people who wrote to you complained that your free items were cutting into sales of their merchandise they should be looking at the quality of their goods. Or it says a great deal about the quality of yours. :o). Don't change a thing!

I do models, and I know I'm at least decent, if not pretty darn good (the cage above is actually a fully posable figure, btw.) The only reason I don't offer any for download is that I refuse to sell my soul to Geocities or have annoying pop-up ads intrude upon visitors to my website. If I did give them away, would I feel guilty about putting someone else out of a job? Hardly. I don't do this for a living; I share my talent because I want to; not only that, but I think making models is fun, and I wouldn't charge people for something that A) I built souly for myself, and B) I had fun making. Besides, this took a grand total of about an hour to make, including bones and texture setup. I'd feel I didn't earn it if I charged like $10 for it, and I'd feel petty if I charged like $1 for it. If I did offer it for download and someone thought I was hurting their business, well, tough. They should make a better figure with better features (it wouldn't be that difficult). I've noticed people who -do- spend money on poser props/figures tend to buy more than one similiar item- after all, you never know which rolling pin will be perfect for that next render- the old fashioned one or the modern one? ;)

The economy itself is still in a bit of an uproar, if anything is to blame for lack of sales the economy would be it, not the wonderful freebies provided by generous individuals...The some what shaky release of P5, and impending release of DAZ Studio also play a rather large part in the scenario, the market will level out again given time, but for now we must be patient and hone our current skills or find new ones...This is not the time to start pointing fingers at freebie providers, I seriously doubt that time will ever come... Freebies have their place in the world as do products...I personally got poser because I wanted the horse (seems terribly silly now but it's true), I'm willing to bet some one some where bought poser because they saw one of your models, either on your site or in some one else's render, and said WOW I could really get into that...So your "Freebie" added another possible purchaser to the list, it didn't take one or more away...Consumers should be thrilled that quality freebies are available, even if they never use a freebie for what ever reason, the quality of that freebie makes a huge difference in the products made available after it's release... Merchants should also appreciate quality freebies for the same reasons... For people to single you out, kindly or not, and blame you for their lack of sales is just plain rude, and fairly silly...Though I kind of doubt they singled you out personally, seems strange a couple of modelers would get together to and just gripe to one generous individual, my guess is they contacted several individuals, and if they didn't then you should feel terribly flattered ;) Keep doin' what ya do if it makes you happy, stop doin' what ya do if it makes you miserable! Don't worry about trying to please the rest of us, we will never be happy with you if you aren't first happy with yourself... Ya know? People who complain are unhappy with themselves for what ever reason and so they lash out at others so that they too can suffer... Misery loves company, but it doesn't solve a damn thing...

the carnage hasn't even begun yet, just wait until a sizable company discovers the potential market of 3D creation for the masses. Even Daz is a tadpole of a company that could find itself in a serious struggle to survive rather quickly, let alone individual modelers.

Very interesting thread.. I think it should have been addressed more torwards merchants rather than just modellers or non merchants... First off I dont think that your freebies has cost anyone a loss of money. But from a different point of view, dont you think that if I were to create products similiar and of equal quality to some in the marketplace, then upload them to the freebies, that it wouldnt ruffle the feathers of a few merchants? I can see how it could destroy newer merchants trying to get started, and not so much those that have been around a while. The strong get stronger and the weak get weaker... Philip

I decided to put my 2 cents worth in. I think there's enough room for any and all who have quality merchandise, free or otherwise. It seems that a lot of people got stung by bandwidth costs, due mainly to D/L Vampires, who sucked the life out of the sites they visited. That's why some have gone paid subscription or just gone, period. I miss them, they all had their place. Some featured one type of item, others, something else. I greatly miss Lannie's site, the fact that the Props Guild is a subscription site now, is unfortunate, in a way. Some people can't afford several subscriptions, and have lost out because of that. I have a subscription to Poserworld now, once a free site. I would like to subscribe to some of the others, but there is only so much disposable income available. I love Poserworld, but I hope to be able to join some of the other pay sites, eventually. Right now, I concentrate on free stuff and an occasional purchase when my budget permits. All this is just to clarify some of the surrounding factors that influence me, and probably others in deciding what to purchase and where. Sam's 3D has reasonable prices and excellent value for the money. No need to feel guilty about that. In short, keep up the good work, no apology is necessary for doing what you do, and doing it well.

Sgaren, those other modelers complaining - this has happened before several times to other modelers here. It all mean that their stuff isn't good enough to withstand honest competition or some good freebies. And they know it. Otherwise thier best rsponse should be to make better products at a competitive price, so people buy their stuff. Simple. Can you imagine Burger King taking McDonalds to court because they give away some really nice toys with their kids meals? Hardly - they try to give away better stuff instead. Besides, this whole community is originally based on mutual generosity, from long before R'osity existed. So I have NO PATIENCE with this kind of thing. You guys make great stuff. Thank you! :] Fish

Thank you all with your comments, it has helped us put a little more perspective on this. Mike and Sharen

Queri... I AM listening.. An yes it gave me some ideas :o)

Oh and Sharen: If your free models (which are GREAT) can put anybody out of business, it's becourse their models are not good enough. To buy something instead of getting it free means that the item paid for must be BETTER than the free one. And yes, there are a lot of things in the Market place that I woulnd't even release as a free item, let alone CHARGE for it. Those people expect to make an easy buck, but I doubt they will. Not from me at least G

Hi Sharen, I have a different reason for disappearing. And it's not really because I'm working at a new job. I got into this 3Dmodeling as a hobby. When I posted some of my stuff on the internet years and years ago. I was somewhat unique. And tons of people and companies were e-mailing me asking for me to do things for them. I got pulled into all the 3D communities by invitation. It was an amazing ride. Nowadays, everyone and their brother is doing 3DModeling. So I'm not needed anymore. So I moved on. My site was a casualty of the free bandwidth crack down. And I don't see why at this time I should pay to host free stuff for other people. When someone else can make it anyway. I've conquered the modeling thing. So it's not so interesting to me as it used to be. Once I conquer something. I drop it and move on to the next challenge. Which currently is attempting to save a struggeling commercial packaging plant here in good ole Rochester. -ScottA P.S.--How are you enjoying this cold damp spring so far?

Yeah, it is like " hey did you have a nice summer, cause it is now October"....LOL....Scott I will IM you, got a question for you. Sharen

hmm..could have a point there, ScottA. All anyone has to do is bop over to the Modelling forum, download Anim8tor, Wings3d (or even Doga L1), and you're making models in minutes (well, hours, the way I work..;). Of course, quality sells. I have downloaded freebies from everyone in this thread who has them, and I've seen some really good sites (Lannie's 3d, Apocolael, etc) disappear from the radar screen. One thing I have noticed, is that sometimes folks stop one site, open another, and don't tell us. (At least someone was nice enough recently to let me know where Textures by Tuesday went..thought it was gone for good).
I guess I'll represent the bad modellers, I've done about 20 myself (including the infamous 40-megabyte A-bomb model..;), but I'd never dream of selling them. Actually doing modelling makes me appreciate what you guys go through, so don't stop making them, either free or for sale.

I think freebies are a major part of our communities and a important gateway to Poser and other modeling programs. I got into Bryce because of a free model site .. and that led me into every thing else and.. ;-). I also think every one, from merchants to software companies would be seriously affected if wonderful folks like you two were to stop officering them.

We can only assume that the half-life of a really good free modeller is prortional to their skill... Maybe they've stumbled into really good full-time jobs? Howard:)

Well, I'm late to the fray here, but I have to add my voice to this thread. Losing your freestuff contributions would be a huge loss to this community, please don't change a thing!

I seem to be running across more Japanese sites regularly. BatLab cur back drastically on his free downloads but most of the Japanese seem to be hanging in there. You have a good heart to be so concerned about this but the idea that you're running anyone out of business with freebies sounds a bit bogus to me. If you want to help, send them the Christian idea and see how well they do with it.

Hey Scott, You are still needed around here - don't kid yourself. Now get to work! - TJ

No I'm not TJ. But thanks for the ego boost. 8-) I've had my time in the 3D spotlight. And I enjoyed it. But there are lots of other things I need to accomplish before I die. Just how many years does it take to learn how to do "everything" anyway? ;-)

Scott, the time it takes to go 17.3 parsecs at 0.022213 kph, in a Vajoran light sail ship. - TJ