I dont want to seem ungrateful but I would like peoples opinions on Daz's recent free stuff items.
I have bought a lot of Daz models & spent a fair bit of money at their site (as I'm sure we all have) & I also believe that their customer service is Excellent & they really do a good job for the Poser community in general....but...Would anyone agree with me that their free stuff recently has become quite poor. They seem to offer a lot of easy to model accessories or novelty throw away models that quite frankly arent even worth downloading anymore.
Personally I would prefer one decent useful item a month for their regular customers rather than a weekly string of useless junk.

Does anyone agree with me? or am I expecting the moon on a stick here?

Still a DAZ fan,
Grav

One man's trash is another man's treasure.;) Personally, I usually only go for the unique characters, but everyone is looking for something different. And even with characters, there's been some cool stuff in recent months, like the Sea Dragon LE and the Spybot. While I'm certainly no Daz zombie (just ask some of the long-time forumites;)), I will give them credit for giving away some great stuff from time to time. And hey, they can't ALL be winners, can they?;) As far as "easy to model", remember that there's a lot of folks here that can't model, period (or at least haven't learned to yet). I will say I'm sick to freakin' death of V3 stuff, though. Not just in their and everyone else's freebies, but in the store itself. I was once quite interested in joining the Platinum Club, but since then it's gotten too V3 oriented to be very interesting to me, not living up to the promise it showed in the beginning.

I'd have said we'd had a fair mix of freebies, most of which I wouldn't have been able to model even badly and with great difficulty. Of course few have taken up a permanent place in my libraries, but it'll be a different few from other people.

Turning out something new week after week and year after year is quite as difficult as modeling. Even if they did something on the quality level as the Gorilla or Sea dragon every week, somebody here would still find reason to bitch about it. Great Gadzookeenies!!! I still remember the long line of people complaining about Stephanie, saying that they'd rather have had another garment for Vicky or a potted plant or anything but a human model. Free. I look at the overall picture and am quite glad for the average level of quality and usefulness. I can't use the too-cutsey Koshini or whatever stuff and do not own V3 yet. However, a pedestal can carry more than a gargoyle, a barrel or ancient book can always be dropped into a background, and gems like the Sea Dragon or Robots inspire their own images. This whole problem is one of spoiled brats, though. With good modelers giving away so much, you whiners forget that in the professional world a $700 basketball isn't snickered at, but accepted because time is valuable. Here, you not only want it free, but textured with your team logo and formatted with pretty little MAT files and sprinkled with cinnamon sugar. Carolly

"easy to model"....it may be easy for you but for those of us who have never modeled anything, it's not easy at all, it's impossible. FOUR free items a month...I'd say you are doing worse than expecting "the moon on a stick". When did the utility company give you free electricity? When did the grocery give you 4 free items a month EVERY month? DAZ doesn't have to give us anything free and to criticize what they give us, I think shows ....well, I won't say...but I'm sure you get my drift.

Spoiled Brat????? It was just an observation, calm down. I personally think a Quality monthly model would be better. The Dragon they made inspired me to buy the complete version with textures & their Gorrilla also inspired me to buy that complete version plus texture maps (I could go on). I just believe it would be in their own interest. Why do people get so upset when any of these sort of issues are brought up? Very strange, Grav

Well speaking from one who knows, making free models every week can be just as challenging as any other model you produce, sometimes even more due to the fact that you got one week to do it. I feel any model given away for free has had a lot of work if not more put into it again due to the fact you got one week to do it in and 2 of those days you are off from work...so really you got 5. And then in the background what most people don't see is you have been working for a month already on a model that will be given a way for free, so you are working maybe on 2, 3 or 4 models at a time......it isn't as easy as it sounds especially for something that is drawing no revenue. I understand what you say, people have said that to us...but it can get exhausting. Sharen

Oh and Grav, I am not upset, I do honestly know what you are getting at....I am a customer to of Daz...and also a vendor....but I also know that sometimes we don't always see the time that is spent on things. Sharen :-)

I think I may not have been entirely clear with my first post. I am not critisizing the models or the quality of modeling. let me use an example, when they released the excellent Dragon model the free stuff section had a Dragons Hoarde model (great idea) & they also had a sacrificial post etc.. They now are doing a few V3 things which is also of great benifit to their paying customers, which I think is a good idea even though I dont own V3 yet. I personally prefer it when they have models that support shop bought items (surely thats a good thing for customers & DAZ). I simply found that I wasn't using any of their free models for a while & I wondered what thoughts others here might have on this subject. There is no need for a tirade of comments from disgruntled modellers or free stuff users calling me ungrateful or whatever. Lets try to keep the posts on a resonably grown up level. I can see how my use of the word Junk might be slightly inflamitary & was certainly the wrong word to use. Sorry about that people, my netiquette might be a little blunt sometimes but I'm a nice guy really ;) Grav

I knew when I read your opening remarks you had opened a can of worms. So far the responses have been pretty tame, however, they can get ugly (try a search for messages about DAZ and free and you'll see what I mean). DAZ's weekly freebie is not simply a philanthropic effort but has a marketing purpose, that is to get customers into the habit of coming to their site and buying their products. If visitors become disillusioned with the offerings they will not come back, not be customers, and take their money elsewhere. I don't think you're out of line with your comment. I hope DAZ reads it and takes it to heart. I happen to agree with the original sentiments and must say I am visiting their site less often, not only because of the uninteresting free stuff, but uninteresting other products too (one of the few less than thrilled Platinum members). However, I have seen these comments and this situation before and I am confident that things will change for the better.

"I personally prefer it when they have models that support shop bought items..." But people complain when they do that. Some see it as a "snare," to get them to buy something. It's very hard to please such a large group of people. Personally I appreciate anything offered free, even though I'm sick to death of Koshini and love seeing anything v3.

I don't know about others but I found that Daz nest very useful - used it twice already and glad that that was in freestuff. I do wish, however, that not all weekly freebies go into the paying section like that Daz Backpack, that Rose etc. Would like to see more utility items.

you whiners forget that in the professional world a $700 basketball isn't snickered at Wanna bet? :-) In some respects, I gotta agree here. I bought V3 and found it too much for my computer to deal with, so it's been shunted into the archives for the day, if any, I open it. And sure, DAZ wants to move its product, which is fine -- except they're investing everything, it seems, in V3 right now. I know this community is utterly fascinated with big hooters and a tight twat, but somehow I sorta expected DAZ to see the slightly larger picture and think about what the pros (Y'know, the maroons who would pay seven hundred bucks for a basketball) want and start orienting their product line in that direction, especially since V3 has opened the door bit in that direction. Doesn't seem to be happening -- instead, it's basically more sleaze gear that'll sell to the hobbyists. Who knows, maybe that's all DAZ wants right now. But it sure seems like a blown opportunity.

I think, like everything in art, it's very subjective. Everyone has his/her own ideas of what's useful. I really like the most recent offering, even though I haven't actually used it yet. I know I will. However, it depends on the genre you work with. I didn't bother to download the robots because I never use them. I deleted the stock robots that come with Poser for the same reason. It's just not my thing. I'm not into mech. I appreciate all the V3 things because she's the female character I use most (can't wait for Mike 3!). I think DAZ is trying to cover a lot of ground, and to satisfy a wide range of interests for their customers, which I appreciate. The variety has been quite broad. Something for everyone. If you don't like the weekly offering, you don't have to download it. I've passed up several that I knew I wouldn't use, but I've gotten a great deal of use out of many of the things they've given to us. Melanie

Well, if V3 items are out, and Koshini items are out, and you don't like props... Um... whats left? =) As the person who modeled the Sea Dragon, I can tell ya that's a lot of work that can't be fit into a single week, or sometimes even a month. People have suggested that the PlatC is being overrun with V3 items, so we put the Gargoyle there. There is also a toonish bird coming soon. Both of these are attempts at diversifying that section. Just not sure what everyone sees is lacking, I've seen a sprinkling of characters, clothing, architecture... ML DAZ3D

whats left? With all due respect, I thought you guys would be slightly more imaginative than that. For as long as I can remember around here, people have been asking for stuff like "normal" clothes, and every time the suggestion has been dismissed "because normal stuff doesn't sell". Well, y'know, in the pro world, normal stuff sells like crazy because it's something that can be used on a wider range of projects than the latest "fantasy armour" or scifi uniform. Same thing with having a wider range of supported characters, like the elderly and realistic teenagers, and the key word there is "support", meaning if you generate a character, you generate the peripherals that go with it to add to the income stream. But usually, you try one or two things, decide it's not profitable, and abandon it for someone else to pick up the slack -- like the PT kids, for example. It was only recently that you discovered, it seems, that you could modify a Vicky outfit to fit the PT girl -- now, let's extend that a little and see how difficult it is to make a PT boy from the Mike mesh and start adapting that clothing down. You guys have been locking down into the sexy-lady-fantasy/sci-fi stuff for a little too long. Want a RW example? Look at Mattel and what they did with Barbie. Sure, that's a running joke around here sometimes, but the fact remains that Mattel gave that "fashion" doll a fully developed wardrobe that went from the most simple to whatever outrageous piece of stuff Bob Mackie could dream up. Even poor Ken has gotten a bit of respect these days: more than a few of the high-ticket Barbie outfits have a matching Ken one, and it's paying off.

You are entitled to your opinion. Here's mine: Personally I think they are doing a good job. The current freebie is a godsend. LaurieA's stuff are top quality. I think "poor" doesn't do her work justice. Simply because you can't use the freebies they offer doesn't mean they are in poor quality.

dang, I knew it... Laurie

I am quite imaginative actually, but unless you want to clone me, there's only so much thats gonna get out of my head and into your program. Of course, it takes a lot of imagination to make a pair of khaki slacks. ;) 'Normal' clothes have not been 'dismissed', there are "normal' V3 clothes up in the store by brokers. Uzlite's things look pretty "normal" to me. Yet, people were just saying there is too much V3 stuff? Elderly characters are already possible with V3, more teenagers are probably on the roadmap at some point; we haven't even gotten Michael 3 done yet so isnt it a bit early to discuss more humans? There seems to be a misconception about this whole "you can make clothes at the drop of a hat, so why didn't you make X for figure Y". Morphs dont magically appear in clothes, and have to be made from scratch, or at least tweaked if they are inherited in some way. I can model you a pair of pants pretty easily but you want 150+ variations (morphs) of that pair of pants? Well thats gonna take quite a while. There is also the issue of how many things one of us can work on at one time. I usually have no less than 4 things going at once. ML DAZ3D

Again (if you read the thread you'll know this) I was not criticising the quality of the models or modelling, Simply the selection at Daz & how maybe a monthly free model (instead of weekly) to accompany a product they are selling would be more useful to their customers. I do not expect something for nothing. I like shopping at Daz & have been very satisfied with the service but if I went to a video store & I wasn't happy with their selection of movies I wouldn't feel guilty about telling people. No offence intended to LaurieA or others, who are very talented & do a great job, Grav

Graviton, Frankly, I wasn't upset at all when I made my post, but now I am... you say you aren't criticizing them with comments like... "novelty throw away models that quite frankly arent even worth downloading anymore" I disagree...that sounds like harsh criticism to me. You ASKED for opinions and I gave mine without calling anyone any names and without making angry statements. Then you tell me to calm down and claim I am so upset. I was neither. Now you are calling me childish when my opinion doesn't agree with yours. I think you are the one being childish by slamming a company publicly....yes, calling their products junk is slamming them. If you're looking for people to support your "observations" then maybe you need to say, "does anyone agree? If not, don't post."

Np Grav, the problem is mostly that people all have different ideas of what "DAZ's store is lacking" and its just really hard soemtimes to hit that moving target. Some weeks/months we do, some weeks/months we don't. =) Its never the case that we aren't trying though. ML

I believe I did say "does anyone agree" (scroll up dear) Hmmmm, stranger & stranger, Grav

Thanks JVRenderer :o). I'll be the first to admit that I'm no Anton or MLane, not even a modeler, but I try ;o)...LOL. I knew there'd be folks who wouldn't like my freebie and that's entirely okay - everyone has their own opinion (and that's a good thing). Just hope the one's who like it have a use for it. That's the only hope I have when I give away a freebie :oD. Graviton: no offense taken :o) Laurie

All I know is I've only been at this for one year, and I am exceedingly grateful for the many wonderful freebies which DAZ has offered during that time. Graviton, there's really nothing so strange about the passion of people's responses, which as others have said have been pretty darn civil and tame compared to when this subject has come up in the past. When DAZ offers free items that don't interest me, or which are for models I don't have, I simply say "oh well" an wait another week. Or sometimes I DL them just in case I find a use for them in the future (which has turned out to be wise.) No, I don't agree. Many of the free items have been exceptionally wonderful...things they easily could have charged $$$ for. The D-Bot and D-Spot come to mind. I love 'em. Keep up the great work, DAZ, and THANK YOU.

Actually Laurie the post was up before the freebie .. Least as far as I saw :) It looks good. In the process of downloading it now.

Gee, the free models are all the same kind of stuff. No, they aren't, we get a bone headdress that would cost about $20 in the MP-- I'm still knocked over by this one- a patio set, couldn't be more ordinary useable-- a romantic pedestal. Three weeks, three different genres! There's a problem?? I don't think so. I think there's a big problem complaining about free stuff in the first place, but that is merely my opinion. Emily

'Normal' clothes have not been 'dismissed' I really must disagree, at least when the suggestion is made around here. The last time this subject was broached (like, about four or five hours ago :) ), one of your employees was quite specific in what does and does not sell, and normal wasn't one of them. Yes, there's far more to pushing the button and having a model pop out, but let's face it, Mallen: you guys are in a rut. You do gorgeous work, but you're still in a rut. >> Elderly characters are already possible with V3 Well, sorry, but IMHO they look like elderly supermodels, not real people. Otherwise, to get to that point you have to work with the over 200 dial settings to even come close, and even then there's not much to clothe the figure with because the clothing morphs haven't been kept up to speed with the body ones (and for the moment Tailor is platform specific). Now, unless you want to create an Avenger-Goes-to-the-Retirement-Home look, you're sorta SOL at creating anything with RW variety. And we won't even begin to discuss texture maps. You want another food-for-thought example? This was something I noticed with the Barbarian packs, and I found it kinda telling. Look at the range of body morphs for the Mike version and then compare it to the ones for the Vicky version and tell me what's missing on the Vicky side. Just go do it -- the omission says a lot about how you view what should and should not be done with Vicky. And for what it's worth, Laurie, the pedestal is great. Thank you.

QWhile I have liked most of daz's freebies, I get upset by people hollering about ingratitude whenever someone criticizes them. People have the right to criticize and suggest improvements (even if they're wrong). When i was a kid I was always told that whenever someone gives you something, be Grateful, which meant accepting it without question or reservation, or that if you don't like the gift, pretend you do. Anything else would mean that you weren't Grateful and would put you in danger of Never Receiving Another Gift from that person again. "What Am I Supposed To Do With This?" is a one of the feared Things You Must Never Say. Well, I believe that idea is BS. It's ok to complain about free stuff. If you don't like something, don't take it, but if people don't like something you gave away, but you're never open to suggested improvements, how will you everlearn to start making the coveted Great Stuff. The stuff that, when people say Thank You they reaslly mean it. Now let me end this by mentioning that people like Daz and Sams3D have great stuff, for which i want to say Thank You Very Much. Most opf the time when I have not d/l-ed daz's weekly freebie it was because it was fir one of their products I don't have. Their freebies have never been "poor" or "throw-away". Sometimes things I don't need, but never "junk". Thanks, Daz.

Um, which barbarian packs are you comparing?

Mallen .. I think the Barbarian male and female sets in the same pack that Anton did.

I like the Daz freestuff most of the time (download them all, cause I might need it later) and the pedestal is a realy useful item to me. After seeing Laurie's textures for it I bought the dog as well. Thanks Daz!

Laurie I think the cloak clasp ROCKS!! It is just what folks were asking for a week ago and you did a fantastic job on it. JoeyAristophanes thanks but I did not model the pedestal, just did the texture. I was very happy though that the modelers at Daz did one for us they are a wonderful group of people that work their butts off on a regular basis ;-). Laurie S

The only barbarian pack I see for vicky is set to fit the FBM barbarian. so I fail to see the problem?? The Warlord for mike is set for a preset muscular body, Mike has no equivalent "barbarian" morph. Please explain more please I really feel like I am missing something. I for one like the variety that they have maintained in free stuff. Can I use it all no but I don't expect to. I know my work is narrower that the range they try to cater to. In my world there would be no Vicky at all ( gasp!!!! ) and they would be up to mike 8 or 9. :) not to mention superior body and facial hair. (I like the mil beard and the fantasy beard but one is too neat the other too messy. we need a mid beard and stach)Ooops I side tracked myself (hair does that to me).

If I knew my original post would have upset people or misled them to believe that I hd something against Daz.... I quite frankly wouldnt have bothered. Maybe I should use more care how I phrase things so as not to inflame the sensitive among us. If you were at your favourite resteraunt that you frequented regularly & then noticed that after awhile the menu has got a little samey & the food is bland, would you not comment to your fellow diners? Im a big fan of DAZ, a happy customer & I will be shopping there many more times in the future, but I am capable of objective criticism. Folks, its a store. seems perfectly reasonable to me. My last post on the matter, Grav

Grav, I don't think anyone is upset or after you for your opionion, they are just voicing theirs regarding what they think. Debats always seem to be the best to jump in on. I love reading different view points on subject that come from anothers thoughts, critiques are interesting, don't you think. Don't take this personally, what you said was well written, truthful and helps open our eyes to different thoughts. Sharen :-)

Hey Grav the post was fine to me too. Opinions are a good thing.

Your store links aren't working at the moment, so I can't give you a specific URL, but it's the Beastmaster packs you did for Vicky and Mike. Look at the body morphs and tell me what's missing for milady.

And let me just add once again that you guys really do gorgeous work. Seriously. But it's like Grav says: it's like going to your favourite restaurant and feeling like it all tastes the same. I'm not saying the stuff you do is lousy, just that I wish you'd spread the range.

I not a big Vicky user so I am still not sure exactly what you are referring to still yet?? I don't think Vicky has the maching muscular morph but they included all the one that are of more "powerfull" proportions( well, except the farie one). Beastmaster Conforming Clothing Figure for Michael Matching Muscular 1 Full-Body Morph Matching Muscular 2 Full-Body Morph Matching Muscular 3 Full-Body Morph Matching Muscular 4 Full-Body Morph Matching Heavy Full-Body Morph Beastmistress Conforming Clothing Figure for Victoria/Stephanie Matching Muscular Victoria Full-Body Morph Matching Muscular Stephanie Full-Body Morph Matching Superheroine Full-Body Morph Matching Faerie Full-Body Morph Matching Barbarian Full-Body Morph Matching Hip Soften Full-Body Morph Multiple Matching Breast Sizes 1, 6, 7 & 8 Full-Body Morphs

"it's like going to your favourite restaurant and feeling like it all tastes the same" Using the restaurant analogy, it's like going to your favorite restaurant and find that each week they present to you a free treat, sometimes it is a mint, sometimes it is cheese on a stick and sometimes it is a fantastic mouthwatering appetizer. Then you proceed into the restaurant to purchase your full meal.

Matching Heavy Full-Body Morph Bingo. God forbid we show Vicky lookin' large.

OOOOH OK! I'm slow, I get it now ;) Funny I should overlook that one, I use it on mike and on the rare occasion on Vicky. you got me. I was thinking muscles. I think I got that stuck in my head cuz Vicky dosn't do muscles well, you need Steph for that. No . .. really. . . . I am smarter than I look? (not that that is saying much) tony

I always appreciate getting freebies, from anyone. My disposable income is somewhat limited, and I have to choose carefully when I do make a purchase. I generally save for bigger items, like programs. Last month, for instance, I invested in a cell-phone, finally, but I got the one I wanted, exactly. I am delighted that so many of the freebies available here and at other sites, are of such high quality. Some are better than, or of equal quality to items that people charge for. If I have any complaint about the DAZ freebies, I don't think they should be add-ons to commercial items as often as they've been, of late. I personally would prefer fewer add-ons to commercial items and more stand-alone freebies. The free add-ons, could be featured with the commercial items, themselves. It seems as tho DAZ is getting more and more into freebies for the commercial items as the weekly feature. Although I have some of their commercial items,I still find it frustrating when the freebies are getting to be more and more exclusive, and not generally usable with what I have at hand. I can only buy so much.

Has anyone ever suggested to Daz that they created different KINDS of clubs? Like a V3 Platinum Club, a Mike PC and a PC for everything else? That's probably the only way they will even come close to making everyone happy. Don't know how that would go over, but it doesn't hurt to ask :o). Laurie

it's like going to your favorite restaurant and find that each week they present to you a free treat Well, not exactly. Think more along the lines of the girl and the tray standing outside offering you a piece of something or other. :-)

That's pretty lame, Mallen.

I think see what you are implying I meant, and that's not the case. When I say impractical, I'm meaning polygon count, detail spread, UV map distortion.. Things that are difficult to morph for sometimes. Zombie is a good example of this because the features are so small. I didn't make the BeastMasters so I don't know in that instance. The catsuit, bodyshirt, and active wear all have the Heavy morph. So I see no conspiracy there to control how she's presented; as you implied. This is why I tend to avoid the forums. People misinterpret things too easy, and I don't have time to sit around analyzing what I write to make sure there's no possible way it could be misunderstood. ML

buys ML some coffee, no-doz a comfy pillow for the back of the head, a desk size toaster, and mouse cleaner I download all the Daz freebies, never know when I'll need or use them, they may not be what I'd like or need today, but 3 weeks from now I might really need to use that outdoor patio furniture :) Freestuff providers rock de house! love all de freestuff providers.

Any item being offered for free is worth at least looking at. This industry is unusual for the amount of free product offered by very reputable merchants. As a merchant and freestuff provider myself, I am absolutely aware of how much work goes into every thing you see. I'd say the wording on the original post ..could have ...ahhh ... been less inflammatory? but no worries ..as long as nobody flies off the handle entirely looks at audience As for not getting what you want .. I certainly don't see the stores flooded with realisticly modeled and textured anthropomorphic animals ... which I for one would buy in a heartbeat. Am I going to whine at DAZ or RDNA or anyone else for that metter for them not choosing to make what I want? No ... I'm gonna go do it myself. If I don't have the skill to make it myself ...well I'll learn. Too many people here have forgotten one of the basic rules of being an artist ..if you can't buy it ..make it. If you can't make it? fake it :) Oh and Joey? watch the language please dear ...we have impressionble young minds wandering about. points at Koshini Lyrra the Pedantic

"Maybe I should use more care how I phrase things so as not to inflame the sensitive among us." Insight is the first step on the road to change.