You have a way with words....LOL. I work in a trucking terminal, where even your personal attack is mild compared to the stuff I hear every day (but funny...hehehe) ;o) Laurie

lol yeah, been there done that back in college i unloaded trucks for a courier service.. not fun. probably the worst job you can imagine - hefting 30-100lb boxes all night in a dingy, dusty environment kindof brings out the worst in your vocabulary :) as far as cussing goes though, the english language is pretty limited. unfortunately theres a finite amount of nastiness that you can string together within the confines of grammatical correctness.. hehe. gotta love europeans and their innate ability to string together an entire poetic paragraph-long bitchfest that would make even the most seasoned trucker blush like a schoolgirl :)

btw - shakespeare is, hands down, the king of insults. lol Shakespearean Insult Generator Come, you are a tedious fool. To the purpose. my personal favorite ;)

grin I did read everything carefully, I was just laying a bit of groundwork first. I know it's not about nudity per se, but I just wanted to be clear because, as you say, these threads can quickly degenerate into the nude vs. no-nude arguments. No biggie :) Kev.

I think the Arabic-speaking nations have the trump-card for insults. My favourite is "may your beard catch fire and your testicles wither and fall off."

shakes head I just don't get it. What's so bad about that morphing vagina? Why can't Vickie have genitals when Mike can? Or Don for that matter, his are even equipped with more morphs than Mike's. I won't jump at anyone here, but I find it an insult when someone hints what you speak of /look at in a socalled "proper home". Who are you to judge if my home is proper or not? Who are you to decide what I can talk about or show my kids? I have 2 girls, oldest is 12. She has a boyfriend. Do I like it? Not much. Do I scream and shout? No. I talk to her. Tells her what she needs to know. About what to do and what NOT to do. After all you're a minor here untill you're 15. Oh and I HAVE a morphing condom in Free Stuff. Prolly not the kind of morphs Blackhearted was thinking of, but nevertheless... :o) Please remember that this IS an international community. Some places you can't show tits, some places it's the navel, yet Vickie has both. And in some countries Poser is banned totally. Go figure. If God (whatever God you prefer) didn't want women to look like they do, he would most likely have made them different. So how can it be bad to show that in a rendering?

Ernyoka, I was saying "proper" not proper. "proper" meaning 'what white bread america thinks a family should be like'. They have a tendency to try to enforce their views on others. I honestly don't care if someone wants to tell their children about sex at an early age. Knowledge is power, and if you tell them about it, they'll be more comfortable about coming to you with problems. My boyfriend was raped because no one bothered to tell him about the birds and the bees, and he had no one he felt comfortable going to after the fact. But bringing the subject back around, there's a difference between depicting something with, for example, normal anatomical details, and, again for example, including 'spread' morphs on said genitalia, as if there was something inside it. The second has no educational merit, really, except perhaps in the study of sex, itself. Or for gynacologists, maybe. In any event, the image has been removed, so we can stop fighting, now. Everyone drop the pitchforks and torches and go home, and have your favorite meal. And save me some.

again, i said i agreed with the 'need' ... or at least the demand for the product and i support the selling of such things here because they promote growth in the community. what i dont agree with is the way it was presented. as for the 'this is an international community' argument.. PLEASE -- i dont care WHERE youre from, closeups of spread female labia are not considered 'tasteful'. by ANY culture. 'didn't want women to look like they do, he would most likely have made them different.' with that statement you could argue that since sex is perfectly natural and 'god intended it', it would be totally acceptable to have (married, since were on a religious kick now) couples perform sexual intercourse in public, on public transit, in front of children, wherever. im sick of hearing that something is 'natural' or 'as god intended' as an excuse for the gratuitous and vulgar display of it. with that reasoning, posting photos of my next bowel movement in the galleries should be perfectly acceptable. we have to draw the line somewhere.. and since rosity is trying to maintain a professional, 'family-oriented' atmosphere, at least some of the changes are taking it in the right direction and keeping it from going down the tubes into unadulterated smut like some other sites have. not that theres anything WRONG with smut. you just cant have both. you cant cater to a general, 'family' atmosphere AND allow smut, the two do not coexist. its like an episode of sesame street where bert & ernie start fisting each other.. its just not gonna fly with the general public, parents, or your boss if he happens to look over your shoulder. cheers, -gabriel

shudders Didn't need that Bert and Ernie image.

What a confusion! The CAT is MINE!, and is not about nudity, is about the tits. Female cats and male dogs (beware your legs) are very pornographic!

I think the biggest issue isn't the presence of the "morphing genital"... but about the fact that the image was allowed up, when a greyed out child for size comparison was kicked out, even though it was exceptionally small, and was intended for nothing more than size comparison.

"closeups of spread female labia are not considered 'tasteful'. by ANY culture. "

But I think that was only done to show the morphs and not intended to be a render in the gallery. When I want to buy a product with several morphs I like to see all the morphs before I buy. When I go to that product page I know what it's about and then I am not shocked when I run into an image (haven't seen it, leider...) that shows the included morphs in detail. Same with textures. I really hate it when you do not see closeups of textures, when some parts are blurred for the sake of whoever.

Family oriented - it's up to the parents to take care for their children and what they see and whatnot. I do not expect this or any other website to be a babysitter and delete every image that could be harmful in what way ever for my child. It's my responsibility to take care for that. And about Grandma or Mom stumbling about 'nasty' pictures - they are grown up, it they can't deal with something it's really their problem. My mom was a nurse, I doubt anything on this page incl. images of spread vagina morphs would have shocked her.

illusions, this is beyond that.. i dont think ANYONE in this entire thread has blamed clint for inaction or the merchant for selling the product here. its just turned to a discussion about nudity, pornography, and the way things are going these days. i think its staying pretty civil, actually, and no personal insults have been made, merely some cynical comments that are commonplace in ANY discussion, especially on the internet. and "cant cater to a general, 'family' atmosphere AND allow smut, the two do not coexist" was not an 'argument', but a statement. i never said rosity was trying to do both - theyre not. was simply a statement about the way some things just cant intermix by definition.

"My mom was a nurse, I doubt anything on this page incl. images of spread vagina morphs would have shocked her. " well, my mom's a doctor, but i would not be too thrilled about her stumbling across an image like that in a marketplace where i sell my products. its not about it being 'perfectly natural', or 'as god intended', or something 'everyones seen before' or 'all women have'. regardless of the fact that all women have a vagina, the majority of them dont think 'money shots' are very flattering to women. i have yet to hear a woman, much less a mother, say that theyre thrilled that someone finally made realistic morphing labia with inserted penis morphs and displayed them in such vivid detail in the marketplace. when i do, ill stfu. then again, maybe its just me. while i find the nude female form very artistic, beatiful, erotic, what have you.. ive never found 'money shots' arousing or artistic in any way... to me theyre the height of distastefulness and are quite demeaning to women.

This is not about porn or degrading women. The image in question wasn't a gallery image. Or a banner ad. This was an image showing an item's morphs in detail. Good salesmanship. There are so many things I don't buy beacause people just don't show enough details...

"well, my mom's a doctor, but i would not be too thrilled about her stumbling across an image like that in a marketplace where i sell my products." you mean the value of "washington post" is somehow lessened because the same newspaper stand sells "playboy"?

I find your frequent use of foul language extremely offensive Blackhearted. Maybe you should watch your mouth on the public forums. JDexter

I didn't see the image. Don't feel I really to because I basically I agree with Blackhearted. Said merchant may have been better off with morph images (or renders) posted offsite with a disclaimer page than so unelegantly unannounced as a second promo image. That is what I believe the seller of another Vicky genital prop did. While some people go for the 'crotch-shot' value of an image, I find an image immensely more erotically valuable based on so many other things. But for others this is what's important for them to have to create the realism they want in their images. In any case, I'd rather prefer the Khrys didn't feel so uncomfortable about his art that he can't post it here. Maybe this is something he has to work out himself. I've noticed a number of 'buddy' pose sets for sale in the MP now...

well Blackhearted, it looks as though you got the attention you so much craved or needed.... this place is really becoming a joke..

Not trying to stifle discussion or anyone's point of view here, but please don't let this thread degenerate into a fight. Yeah, I know it's reasonably civil so far but just getting a pre-emptive word in ;) Thanks. Kevin.

hmm so closeup renders of a vagina model thats higher resolution than vicky herself with 'penis inserted' morphs is not pornographic in nature? what does it classify as then? medical art? as for foul language.. my god, i used four letter words twice, once to emphasize what a personal attack would be. its funny how someone can argue that close-up vaginal renders be allowed in the marketplace promos, yet at the same time be offended by the word 'fuck'. kindof ironic, dont you think? and this thread isnt wholly about 'protecting children'.. i just made the point that if i had a kid, id have no problem with him/her seeing promos of the latest vicky 3 texture, but i wouldnt want them seeing the image that started this thread. its about whats appropriate and whats not. "To have a "tantrum" about it being "pornographic" because you had 2 banner ads pulled is a bit "over the top"" this isnt about the banner ads, and the fact that you are accusing me of having a 'tantrum' over that is offensive. i already apologised to clint for using that as an example, it was a bad one. its all water under the bridge. this whole thread started when i got back home from driving for 2 days straight, sat down and had a look at the 'whats hot' section of the marketplace. im sitting here eating a bowl of noodles, clicking through the marketplace, and clicked on the promo for the product and was pretty shocked at it, and i dont think it belongs here (apparently neither do a lot of others). and yeah, i wanted to start a debate on it - because i think this is VERY relevant to rosity. i dont care about the pointless nudity in the galleries - im guilty of it myself on several occasions (although im trying to cut down on the nudity in my gallery for unrelated reasons)... this isnt about 'nudity' and im getting weary of some people trying to derail the issue at hand and try to turn it into a nudity/no nudity discussion. that debate will forever rage on unresolved at rosity, along with other seasonal debates like 'the hot20 is corrupt' and various other conspiracies. "It's also good to remember that this is a diverse site with a wide variety of outlooks and views...just because you label something pornographic doesn't make it so...and dismissing other points of view as irrational or valueless does little to foster compromise or agreement. " apparently its not just me.. and pardon me if i label 'nudity as natural' as an irrational excuse for over the top promo ads. yeah i may come off as blunt or rash at times but thats just the way i am, and im unlikely to change at this late stage. just the way i 'speak'.. some people take offense at things i say which intended no offense at all. im just a sarcastic bastard and sometimes people fail to see my twisted humor and take things the wrong way. again let me say that im not trying to insult anyone here, or accuse rosity, the merchant in question, or anyone in this thread. im just worried that certain precedents will open the door to a tide of smut at rosity and the site will go downhill from there (like others have in the past). i realise that since this has been dealt with by the admins, and very quickly at that, its kindof a non-issue.. but i still feel strongly about my views on what is pornographic and what is not, and im still waiting for someone to convince me that a money-shot has 'artistic value'. cheers, -gabriel "I find your frequent use of foul language extremely offensive Blackhearted. Maybe you should watch your mouth on the public forums." oh please. in the years ive been here, i can probably count on my hands how many times ive said fuck in these forums... oops

Umm, BH, I didn't argue in favor of the vagina pictures in the markeyplace, so gets your facts straight. I wanted to point out that while you might find vaginal pictures offensive (and I tend to agree) it is no different than you constantly cussing on the boards. You need to watch your language, period. There is no reason for you to be using language like that, and I wonder why the mods in this forum don't seem to think it is a problem. It's not about artistic commentary, it's just your bad mouth. JDexter

"im just a sarcastic bastard and sometimes people fail to see my twisted humor and take things the wrong way." lol- me too :) " im just worried that certain precedents will open the door... " "it's a piss poor sword that dosn't cut both ways" Thats why so many of us are becoming more vocal about this, "give em an inch and they'll take a mile"

"it is no different than you constantly cussing on the boards" way to generalise there bud. #1. i hardly post anymore, i cant recall posting much in weeks, perhaps months. in the last year ive probably posted only a handful of threads, hardly anywhere close to the dozens a day i would post prior to that. #2. im serious when i say i can probably count on my hands how many times ive cussed on these boards. #3. the word is in the dictionary. its crude, and slang, but its a part of the english language and just about everyone uses it sometimes. i see no parallel to my using the word f*ck to open vagina renders... however, if i had a little kid i wouldnt mind them hearing the former but i would mind them seeing the latter - theres quite a large degree of difference between the two. #4. this is why, when a film has coarse language in it, its usually rated PG-13. if it has nudity, or suggestive/adult situations, its rated R. id like to think of renderosity as rated PG-13 with the nudity filter on, and R with it off... which is a happy medium. when a film has closeups of spread labia, its generally rated X or XXX. im hoping rosity doesnt go that route. this has been my point all along.

Oookay ... boys and girls and artists of all ages lets keep the potty mouth to a minimum, alright? And that means EVERYBODY. Lyrra (moderator)

"i WAS fuming mad at the time, because i spent a lot of time on my banner ads and particularly liked that one." I'd characterise that as a tantrum... umm.. this was like 4 months ago, lol. 'at the time' was when they were pulled. "Prime example...you said that in response to JDexter, who was offended by your language. You dismissed their feelings in favor of your actions. " no, i was making a point. you cant equate using the word fck to posting macro money-shots. you can turn on prime-time tv and hear the word fck a dozen times per show.. but you wont be seeing many zoom close-ups of spread labia now will you? its like comparing a jaywalker to osama bin laden because they both 'broke the law'. "You don't seem to be particularly concerned about offending anyone else. " i constantly apologize in advance with the foreknowledge that people will take what i say the wrong way, and constantly attempt to explain and point out that im not attacking anyone in particular only the issue that i have strong feelings about. "and more concerned about how you come across...you might be taken a bit more seriously by more people." you hardly speak for the entire forum. a lot of people here agree with me.. and as for my 'style', id rather be considered up-front and blunt than pussy-foot around a topic and speak in word-games and a roundabout manner. if i dont like something, im going to come out and say it. if i disagree with someone, and it doesnt matter who that someone is, im going to voice that disagreement. interesting that throughout this thread many more people have been flinging insults and provocation at me than i at them, yet im not getting my panties in a bunch over it. "Now I know you can't "hear my tone" so let me assure you none of this is meant to be sarcastic or disrespectful...I'm just sitting here having a friendly chat with you." same here. your posts do come off as pointing an ___load of fingers at me though, but im used to it so enjoy yourself. as for the tide of smut.. every once in awhile people attempt to slip stuff in - wether intentionally or inadvertantly.. and sometimes it gets by the administration/moderators. then the NEXT time someone does it theyll whine 'but you let so and so do it earlier, so you have to let me do it too' and usually the administration backs down and lets them get away with it. at this point, were seriously beating one very fat, very dead horse here. the issue that started the thread is resolved and currently neither 'side' is presenting any valid points other than pissing back and forth about irrelevant crap, and trying to divert what i originally thought was a pretty clearcut topic but now is a potential flamefest. im going to go make a pizza :) poofs

I am a woman. ------------------ 68. "...i have yet to hear a woman ... say that theyre thrilled that someone finally made realistic morphing labia with inserted penis morphs and displayed them in such vivid detail in the marketplace. when i do, ill stfu..." ------------------ 69. by Caly "This is not about porn or degrading women. The image in question wasn't a gallery image. Or a banner ad. This was an image showing an item's morphs in detail. Good salesmanship. There are so many things I don't buy beacause people just don't show enough details..." ------------------ Thrilled isn't the word I would normally use, but if it helps... I'm thrilled that someone came up with such realistic genitals for women. Why should Michael have all the fun? ;)

lol bravo, i didnt think one could fit so many subtle snide personal insults into such a short post. you get a merit badge for that one :)

the word is in the dictionary. its crude, and slang, but its a part of the english language and just about everyone uses it sometimes. i see no parallel to my using the word fck to open vagina renders... however, if i had a little kid i wouldnt mind them hearing the former but i would mind them seeing the latter - theres quite a large degree of difference between the two.*

IMHO the difference between the general argument "it's natural so it's OK" and "it's in the dictionary so it's OK" is at best negligable. You're asking for intelligent, adult distinctions to be drawn on the graphic side and AFAICS one or two people have simply asked you to "do as you say" on the language side. I HAVE a little kid, and I wouldn't want him to see the image as described or hear your use of language. He gets neither on UK TV all day long. Can't we all just get along? This topic is a dead parrot. It is deceased, it has departed this mortal coil. It is an ex-parrot.

I agree with who3d this topic is a Dead Parrot If neccasary it will be locked Lyrra

I'm not surprised something slipped through, lately the banner ads have been getting bad again with nipples showing on a Koshini ad and blatent nudity.
Everything else on this site has a nudity flag but banner ads don't and shouldn't contain nudity until there is one.

Whether the item belongs here or not, and with regard to the aguments about children: This site is not Renderotica. No one in their right mind would expect to visit Renderotica with their computer screen in plain view of children or co-workers. The forums here however as well as merchant accounting pages, etc shouldn't be something you have to wait till you're home or the kids are in bed to view just because of the banners. The galleries, yes. The marketplace, probably. But the forums? Sorry but art site or not, some discression should be exercised.

And I don't belive things like this necessarily belong at R'otica. This is an art site and a popular one at that. People should be able to purchase items like this here. Graphic images however don't really belong and if an item can't be sold without them, that should be the deciding factor on where it belongs.

Three cheers for Vicky! No one ever complains about the size of Mike's penis or whether he has enough scrotal morphs. It's Vicky who looks "too young," not the poor Mil kids. I suspect a giant image of El Dorko's package would never generate the heat Victoria's secret does. Don's pecs no matter how buffed never cause the consternation that Vicky's breasts do. It is interesting that in a thread which is, I suspect dominated by males, the female genetalia and their depiction is so controversial. It is interesting that DAZ felt male genitals were OK but the female equivalent is off limits. It is interesting that in a world where women make up the majority of the population, men still have this strange nned to control, cover up, characterize and prohibit women's bodies. Whether it's the "enlightened" 21st century man or the would be 5th century Taliban, some things naver change.

This is why I have only the tits of my females cats censored, the 8 tits of the male cats remains uncensored.

LOL Kawecki. Have you noticed that the poor animal haven't got any ... er.. exit? No need for litterboxes when you have a Poser cat G

if you're looking at a female GEN prop or female GEN morphs in the MP... then it should have renders of them. if its a GEN prop or GEN morphs, and you click on the thumbnail in the marketplace, obviously knowing damn well what you clicked on because I assume you can read the language on the thumb and description (no nudity there, remember), you should be expecting the details you see in the advert. in other words, its your own damn problem if you click on it. As long as the nudity is simply showing the details of the prop, not how you can USE the prop... I see no problem with it. Women's genitals are not naughty... they are natural. /now bijou considers doing a very naughty image... maybe one of a mother giving birth... another use for female genitalia... what goes in... often comes out, you know G

This is not a childrens site... btw. If you let your little brats run on Renderosity unattended... well that's a parenting failure... not R'ositys. I have dealt with too many sorry excuses for parents in my days of tech support... I have no tolerance for them. Babysit your own kids. I refuse to water down my experience here because some people here can't be bothered to babysit.

"It is interesting that DAZ felt male genitals were OK but the female equivalent is off limits. It is interesting that in a world where women make up the majority of the population, men still have this strange nned to control, cover up, characterize and prohibit women's bodies." pretty tired of this argument too. michael NEEDS basic mesh genitals - because if he lacked a penis he would look inhuman. he doesnt have any erection morphs, a morphing anus (shudder), scrotal morphs, etc. the victoria models always had genital morphs - a morph that gives her genital area enough detail that, textured, she will look natural and realistic in a render. she does not need a morphing orifice. so no, the argument that 'if michael has a penis why cant vicky have a vagina' doesnt apply at all here. mike has a basic penis because the penis is an external sexual organ and a lack of it would make him look unnatural and inhuman. victoria has enough of a genital morph to accurately portray female genitalia in artistic renders. how many artistic nudes have you seen which require a gaping orifice? now before people start twisting what i said - let me reiterate that im not arguing against selling something like this at rosity or the specific product that started this thread, only the way it was presented. and please spare me the 'if michael has a penis vicky should have a vagina' argument, because its been addresses hundreds of times before here, and by Daz themselves, and is a pretty weak argument.

"...maybe one of a mother giving birth..." Careful, if the baby is in contact with the vagina, that would be a violation. Of course, if the mother was one of those multiparous women with strong pelvic muscles who can pop out babies with ease, you might capture the newborn in mid-air at the moment of delivery. Strangely, Zygote supposedly deigned to create an anatomically correct female for some OB/GYN job. So, you could argue that birth has been declared (ex cathedra no less) to be an acceptable reason for depicting yawning yoni.

"This is not a childrens site... btw. If you let your little brats run on Renderosity unattended... well that's a parenting failure..." i agree that a lot of the content here is racy and requires parental guidance.. but who are you to say this isnt a children's site? rotica isnt a children's site. thralldom isnt a children's site. but rosity is basically an artist community that deals in every medium.. id encourage my 'brat' to join rosity and deviantart because they could learn a lot here. and while id have few problems with said 'brat' seeing most of the pinups the galleries are teeming with, id not want them to see something like the image that spawned this thread.

And let's remember also, it's not like we are talking about a photograph! why not? how different is it really? Even if that WAS considered art, cuz yes im implying that it isnt, its still not something that is labelled by the general majority of the world's population (not just us here at rosity) as acceptable. if it were so acceptable, and there wassnt anything wrong with showing it, then we'd be seeing spread twats all over the place. I dont recall seeing any accomplished artist displaying such. and yes as a personal opinion i find NOTHING artistic or innocent about it. just because you label something pornographic doesn't make it so... Its not him labelling this pornographic, its the fact that if you showed any one of those images to the average person THEY would as well. We all know what the majority of the world thinks about pictures of genetalia, whether you agree with it or not, this is still something thats not acceptable in any country ive seen. and i dont think it belongs here (apparently neither do a lot of others). i have to agree with that. especially after one reads the TOS in the galleries. Cuz yeah, as a personal opinion, which im entitled to w/o getting flamed, i dont think products like genital morphs belong at renderosity. i thought that was why we had rotica? #4. this is why, when a film has coarse language in it, its usually rated PG-13. if it has nudity, or suggestive/adult situations, its rated R. id like to think of renderosity as rated PG-13 with the nudity filter on, and R with it off... which is a happy medium. when a film has closeups of spread labia, its generally rated X or XXX. im hoping rosity doesnt go that route. this has been my point all along. exactly exactly exactly. Daz is SO PG-13, id even go so far as to say just PG. and they do just fine. I personally dont think rosity should ever be above an R rating. And again, whether you see this thing as acceptable to yourself or your family or not, the general public doesnt agree. you dont even see that in softcore porn. showing such pictures of genetalia, male or female, is hardcore. x rated. we all know a product like that wont sell if a potential buyer couldnt see how it actually looks right? well if a promo so unacceptable that the rosity admin would delete it, why should such an item be for sale here anyway? if its gonna sell, its gonna sell, no matter where you have it up. rotica has a store for these types of items, why do they need to be here, when you cant even show them in the promos, if you can sell them at a site that caters specifically to people who want to do that type of art? then no one is offended. no, i was making a point. you cant equate using the word fck to posting macro money-shots. you can turn on prime-time tv and hear the word fck a dozen times per show.. but you wont be seeing many zoom close-ups of spread labia now will you?. again my previous point. yeah cussing is somethign accepted by the general public, crotch shots are not and you all know it. whther you agree with it or not. "You don't seem to be particularly concerned about offending anyone else. " i constantly apologize in advance with the foreknowledge that people will take what i say the wrong way, and constantly attempt to explain and point out that im not attacking anyone in particular only the issue that i have strong feelings about. let me tell you guys something, i more than ANY of you know Gabe, his sarcasm, how he talks, and how incredibly easy it is to take things he says the wrong way. its taken me a while to get used to it and know better than to take things personally (lol and vice versa for me ;) And in every post hes ever made where he may have offended someone he IMMEDIATELY apologises even if its someone he may not even like. he doesnt want to be taken the wrong way any more than you guys do. his apologies before hand are just him explaining 'hey what im about to say you might take the wrong way, so please hear me out first cuz im not trying to attack anyone, just expressing an opinion'. so guys dont jump down his throat. he has a right to express an opinion, and didnt do anythign wrong in posting this thread. the point of this thread was NOT to chastise the creator or even to have it brought down, just to discuss the fact that it is up period. HA! that was probably my first and only post where i myself did not say fck once. ;)*

Not gonna argue with you BH. You have your own opinion which differs from mine. You have your own ideas of what is acceptable, artistic etc. Saying that the issue has "adressed," as if that constitutes some kind of ultimate truth doesn't cut it for me. Obviously many people do not agree that Vicky's organic genital morphs are sufficient for their tastes. Obviously, you feel that no one producing anything you would define as artistic would desire such an item. I have no problem with anyone having their own ideas of what is artistic or tasteful. I have a large problem with anyone trying to insist that their definition is somehow beyond question. You object to realistic female anatomy, that's fine. Don't use 'em, don't look at them and I'll respect your choice. It should be no pain to you that those who feel differently want to use add-ons and want to see what those products look like. No one has tried to characterize the work you choose to do based on the resources you choose to utilize. Why not show others the same consideration. This idea that anyone is going to, or should have to agree with someone else's idea is truly a dead horse.

This idea that anyone is going to, or should have to agree with someone else's idea is truly a dead horse. NObunny is saying that. play nice kids.

"You object to realistic female anatomy, that's fine." sigh i think ive been saying all along that i dont. but theres a way to sell it, advertise it, without crossing the line into the X rated. i think some caution, some restraint and common sense should be used in advertising them on a family site. if you dont want to exercise that caution, then sell them at rotica or thralldom which cater to this type of thing.

1. Re: WTF??? whats this place coming to? by Rio on 7/5/03 10:59 why not? how different is [from a photograph] it really? There's potentially dodgy ground ahead, but personally I see little difference between photography and 3D. One usual argument goes "But no-one gets hurt in 3D" which is a fallacy. It may be that no physical person gets denuded/beheaded/whatever but to assert that "no-one gets hurt" is to say that the image/s in question have zero effect, zero impact, on everyone that views them. That the art of storytelling outside of theatre leaves everyone equally unmoved. I don't buy it, personally - but it's a far more complex question that I'd hope to cover in a single thread (nevermind a single post!). We all know what the majority of the world thinks about pictures of genetalia, whether you agree with it or not, this is still something thats not acceptable in any country ive seen. Agreed - it seems to me fairly obvious in most cases what is acceptable and what is not - it's only at the borders where there's any real room for "interpretation". To be honest, there are also precious few locations I've been where it's considered "perfectly OK" to swear in public. i dont think products like genital morphs belong at renderosity. i thought that was why we had rotica? Although not really the point of this thread, I'd have to agree. However it's been asserted that a large percentage Renderosity's turnover comes from such products, so it may be difficult to envisage Renderosity willingly vetoing such products. Fortunetly for the MP there's a "nudity" flag setting so you don't have to see such things unless you actually LOOK for them. If you look for them and find them then, well, there ya go. Daz is SO PG-13, id even go so far as to say just PG. and they do just fine. Agreed again - I can't recall the last time I saw swearing on the DAZ site . again my previous point. yeah cussing is somethign accepted by the general public, crotch shots are not and you all know it. whther you agree with it or not. I disagree quite strongly. At least in my neck of the woods, if you wander through town cussing loudly enough for others to hear you'll be approached by PC plod just as quickly as if you wander around flashing pictures of plastic pretend vaginas. Maybe quicker, even. Just think about it - if you walk down your local highstreet cussing at every third person, are you so sure that your behaviour will be found perfectly acceptable?

lol VERY good point, i meant acceptable as in its something thats always out there, people always do it, its all over TV..acceptable isnt the word.. but cussing is certainly more tolerated, esp publicly. there arent any laws or restirctions made for the protection, or whatever, of others against cussing like their are restrictions on viewing pornographic material. so thats what i was getting at. and that i personally think cussing is more overlookable, lol if thats a word, than publicly showing pictures of naughty bits with THINGS! lol... and i also know better than to go out publicly and start swearing at everyone. i know its something that would offend a lot of people, so i know better. i know where to draw a line. ;) this thread came about cuz we think the lines here are getting a bit fuzzy perhaps? i just dont see why if promo images that you NEED to have in order for your product to sell are not allowed to be seen here, then why is the product up anyway? i see why people would want items liek that, i understand the demand, but i also know that if i personally was ever gonna sell something liek that id do it at rotica where i know i wont be offending anyone and i know i can show whatever promos i want however i want, without having to worry about offense or forum posts. that to me is just common sense and respect to this community and their general opinions on the matter, if i may say that without sounding way harsh.

People go where they think the money is- 'osity has lots of people, and obviously he's doing well what with the Hot Item status. Stores keep what makes them them lots of money. Nudity tags are here for a reason.

"You want to know something though...I don't care how many people you think find certain language acceptable, but I don't want my children to think that calling a woman's genitals a "twat" in public is acceptable...just so you know...both my children are over 18...I didn't raise them that way and they both respect my feelings enough not to do it in front of me. It's only common decency to respect the rights of others that don't want to hear it or read it as well! " there you go again. i find it pretty pompous that youre complaining about the word 'twat' in one breath while defending a collage of money-shots in another. its also no comparison. go pick a random person on the street, and say 'twat' in a conversation with them. at most youll get a raised eyebrow. now pick a random person on the street, and hold up a poster of macro shots of female genitalia in various 'positions' in front of their face. youll be lucky not to get slapped or have the cops called on you. THATS the point being made here. please stop trying to dilute this thread by comparing rio's use of the word 'twat' in reference to the image to the actual vagina collage itself.. its childish and transparent at best.

Thank you for your interest in my product, "G3 - A Conforming Genital for Victoria 3" at http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=20499 it was a project that spanned three months in in creation due to planning and testing prototypes. Thank you my beta testers for your guidance and helping me a first of its kind, conforming genital. It has been called a hybrid, maybe that is a good description, for it morphs the geometry of Vicki3's hip and adds a conforming labia prop with in the folds of vicki3's hip. The process is not absolutely perfect, but my Beta Testers agree that it is the best genital for any figure up to date. I have priced it at only Fifteen dollars so everyone could afford it and I would get a fair reward for my building it. I am not a pornographer; I spend all my time working on modeling, my rendering and post rendering skills are minimal. I my first G3 models designed for r-rated usage or even soft porn. My testers who have not given me permission to use their names, have made it quite clear that some people would want to use this for renders such as you would find on Renderotica. This required three more rebuilds of the geometry and much experimenting with what Vicki's hip polys would do. Finally I built a genital hybrid that would satisfy even Renderotica Artists. The offending picture has been replaced by boring black in white text, there used to be a picture the genital hybrid's many morph shapes, poses, and textures. This picture told a thousand words, it let you make up your own mind by seeing exactly what you were getting before you bought it. I consulted Renderosity by email and asked them what their policy was on portraying such sensitive and maybe controversial item in detailed pictures. I was told to stay within published guidelines which I did. Due to outrage about the detailed pictures of my model, Renderosity felt it in the best interest of everyone to remove this picture. I have no bad feelings toward anyone at Renderosity or to those who complained and I would also rather see my picture singled out and removed then see Renderosity change their policy on what is acceptable for their site. You can request this banned picture or ask me any questions about the product by Instant Messaging me here at Renderosity.com. Thank you all for making this one of the top selling products on Renderosity Market Place. Watch here for G3ForMen, A Conforming Male Genital for Vicki3, to be released soon. I am consulting Renderosity now about how I can portray a penis model with out creating an outrage. I am asking it could be embedded in my home page articles with a warning that you are about to see a penis. Marty-Insomniaworks

yes well im still sorry, im a pretty vulgar person actually and tho i try to be on my best behavior, i slip up a lot. its also hard to always remember that what never offends me or those im around can easily offend others who find it unacceptable. bad habits are hard to shake. and im not used to ANYONE i know finding the word "twat" remotely offensive, so im sorry if i forget to pay attention all the time. and yeah vulgar language vs pornographic material is not the issue here. both are offensive, we all admmit that. just please try not to take things so personally.

Marty, mad props. that was so polite and mature and understanding i must say im in awe ;) thank you for not takin any of this personally!!