Attached Link: http://www.maxon.net/index.html

I got the free version of Cinema 4D 6CE on Computer Arts. Very nice renders! There is a 640x480 limit on the CE version but you can screen capture to up that - or upgrade for just 79. Nice renders guys. But Dash, the eyes are kinda lifeless right now.

The render i'm doing right now doesnt require a face close up so no need of a "fake" reflection a small glint does fine but i'm not sure about this texture is too light. i'll see if i can make one with some reflections.

That doesn't look much different than Poser to me. With the right lighting sets (blackhearted comes to mind).. Poser looks just as good.

These eyes look very dry. Add some specularity or an environment map.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1416107

If you want to be picky about the eyes then, they are both identical which is very unlikely in the real world and both reflections are identical (in each eye) even though parts of the face are cast in shade. No moisture there. This is when you do not want reflections mapped to the eye image used but to use the renderer to pick them up from your scene. The image I created with the glass took me 20 mins and that is my first real thing I have created in cinema, I have not even scratched the surface of it yet. Nothing wrong with firefly, someone was just pointing out how good cinemas rendering is. It is a viable option for anyone still using poser 4. Get the free copy of cinema 6 ce and try some renders with it.

Where'd you get the towel? Or was that postwork? dave

[i]but their really is NO comparison Between the poser5 renderer and Cinema 4DXl's render engine[/i] Correct. Despite all the global illu, Cinema4D doesn't do 3D motion blur, 3D depth of field, true displacements or subsurface scattering, where Poser doesn't do radiosity or caustics. But where would you need caustics in a character animation program anyway? Final Fantasy had no radiosity either. About my AO plugin - it's just something that Pixels:3D, whose render engine was licensed for Poser 5, has for a long time now. Actually, Pixels:3D is where I got the idea from. So the render engine of Poser would be perfectly capable of doing ambient occlusion, it's just the node that's missing. Looking at the C4D images posted so far, there's nothing in them that FireFly wouldn't do.

Where'd you get the towel? Or was that postwork? Cloth room. Material is the velvet shader with an anisotropic highlight. There is no postwork in that image, and it's Mike's default texture.

Where'd you get that Maya doll and outfit wolf?

{Cinema does not do DOF?? } He may be referring to basic R8 which lacks some of the advanced render functions and texhnically, Cinema applies its blur filters as 2D post, but then they are still pretty good and render an eon faster than a true raytraced equivalent.

cross posted there stewer! Whats the point of this argument though? - the 2 apps are poles apart, and I am sorry, but regardless of what Poser does do well, it's not in the same league as Cinema - that's a different ball game altogether.

I'm not trying to cause arguments here. I was just pointing out that cinema 6 ce is free and if people using poser 4 want antoher alternate renderer then this could be a viable solution and you can create your own models as well. I do have poser 5 and love it as well, but I also like working in cinema and using the hdri lighting. Does poser 5 support this?

Dang HTML tags... I said 3D DOF. What Cinema does is apply a 2d post filter with the z-Buffer as mask, which does not produce accurate results. FireFly (and about any other REYES renderer on this planet) is performing accurate depth of field during rendering. but regardless of what Poser does do well, it's not in the same league as Cinema Just look at the price... But if you do a little research on render engines, you'll see that FireFly is rather comparable to Pixar's PRMan than Cinema 4D, as it is a REYES renderer and not a raytracer (note that until recently, PRMan did not do raytracing). Radiosity and HDRI are nice for architectural or car design stills, but not for character animation.

Hmm - Well I'll have to check out 5 - still running propack, and since CL decided that Mac users were second class citizens, despite being the platform that Poser began on, we have only just been offered a working version!

I've never mentioned animation at all. I work in portraits more often than not and like the idea of having reflections of the environment showing on the characters jewellery and especially their eyes without having to use reflection maps etc.. Not used poser 5 for ages because it keeps locking up on me. Had no problems for ages and then one day bang, I get similar problems that have been posted here before. I am building a second computer and intend to use it just for poser, so hopefully I can get in there and explore it a little bit more.

"Where'd you get that Maya doll and outfit wolf?" free from studio MAYA

Attached Link: water simulation

Note that I also said 3D motion blur. Once again, what C4D is doing is a 2D post filter.

Your point about the 2D/3D motion blur effect is fairly academic though as it does the same job, and faster anyway.

Just exactly what were you trying to do?? 1st one looks like a ball falling last one looks like a grey lightsabre effect?

Just exactly what were you trying to do?? 1st one looks like a ball falling last one looks like a grey lightsabre effect?

2nd is also a falling ball.

PLEASE FORGIVE ME TO POST THIS MESSAGE IN CAPS I KNOW THAT ITS NOT RIGHT BUT ITS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT U READ THIS: SORRY FOR HAVE STARTED A FIGHT ABOUT WICH RENDERING IS BETTER, BUT I WASNT SAYING THAT POSER 5 WAS A SHI* AND THAT CINEMA WAS THE BEST PROGRAM, I WAS JUST POINTING THE REALISM THAT CINEMA RENDERING HAS, I POSTED THIS MESSAGE AS A RESOURCE FOR THOSE WHO LIKE REALISM I WANTED TO SHARE THE PROGRAM, FORGIVE ME ALL THAT TOOK THE MESSAGE AS AN OFFENCE I WASNT COMPARING POSER AND CINEMA I JUST WAS SAYING THAT CINEMA 4D HAS A GREAT RENDERING. :) SORRY FOR THE MESSAGE IN CAPS AGAIN.

first looks more like motion blur despite the strobing - object motion blur would have been better for that than scene, also much faster, AND R8 render is a lot faster than 7! :)

AND R8 render is a lot faster than 7! Are you gonna buy it for me? ;-) I know that C4D is a very fast ray tracer with a number of impressive illumination stunts, but REYES renderers are better at 3D DOF and MB - by design. REYES on the other hand is the inferior approach when it comes to ray tracing effects. Pixar's PRMan didn't have ray tracing until Nov 2002/Version 11. The previous version 10, released in Aug 2001 had neither ray tracing nor any global illumination features. The strobe effect in 2D motion blur is even worse if you have high-contrast textures. With a checkerboard texture, the scene above turns into a moire-mess. Object motion blur would have worked in this scene, yes, but it works only in very few scenes. 2D scene motion blur is expensive as it is rendering the whole scene multiple times (the image above is at 25x blur, btw), where 3D motion blur as performed by REYES renderers does additional calculations only where objects are actually moving. If you have Poser 5, try yourself: Take a still scene, render it once without and once with motion blur. Both will render equally fast. So, if you want to render e.g. a bullet shooting through your scene, there will be no additional rendering overhead for the rest of your scene. If you did that with 2d motion blur (which Poser 5 and ProPack also can do), you'll render the whole scene multiple times. jeharsy I know you wasn't comparing. We were :)

Attached Link: http://www.pixels.net/gallery/

I agree that Firefly is a decent renderer, and I love the way shaders are set up in Poser 5, but it's just so damn slow, and the general bugginess of the app, plus my greater comfort with lighting in Truespace 4 makes me do pretty much all my rendering there (Via Konan's Truepose plugin, which will soon work with Poser 5 I'm told.) BTW If you just want a all around decent 3d app with a faster easier to use renderer with more features (Like Radiosity) You can get Truespace 4 for $200 now Plus $100 for Konan's plugin for animation or Use LUUV (Free) for stills. Or you can get Truespace 6.6 for under $600 which has a feature set which is pretty comparable to LW 7 (No Hypervoxels or Cel shader, but it costs a 3rd as much) At the moment TS 4 is all I need though. again you will need a plugin for proper import of poser models. http://caligari.com/

Attached Link: http://caligari.com/

Have to agree with that,the one thing thats bugged me with the firefly renderer is the speed,Quality is great but the wait is ridiculous, whereas i've found with c4d the quality of render is fantastic and it renders at a blistering speed compared to poser 5 + firefly.

{Quality is great but the wait is ridiculous, whereas i've found with c4d the quality of render is fantastic and it renders at a blistering speed compared to poser 5 + firefly. } I thankyou! :)

Great image eferrier!!! I agree with you completely. I do all my renders in cinema, but love poser aswell. You have Poser 5 and don't have the money for C4D?, you really don't have to worry, firefly is a great render engine (If quality renders is what you're looking for, that is, both programs are far more than that). Funny, I've seen some poser "haters" in the C4D gallery, but this is the first time I see a thread like this one. Havent seen any hate so far (in fact the arguments are more rational), but it seems like if the Poser users are fighting back. Cool!! Poser deserves more respect! sorry for my bad english.