I am never sure if people are looking for or want constructive, real, honest comments on their art. I wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings so on those pieces where I feel certain things can be done to improve it ....I just don't comment because I don't want someone pissed at me or think I'm a know it all biotch. But on the other hand those artist may never improve upon their work if they are given a false sense of accomplishment with over the top flattering comments that may not always be true. Believe me I've seen a ton of flowery flattering comments on some really awful art and when I read them I just want to hurl. Believe me I'm not trying to be mean ....not trying to put people or their art down....I'm not saying that I know anything about art or that the art I do is any good. But as a wannabe artist who wants to be a serious artist in the future I'm always seeking to improve my work so I appreciate every comment I get. When they are constructive comments on how I can improve my work, they are even better. I want the truth ...even if it hurts. Don't be mean just be constructive. What is everyone looking for when they post their art...am I the only one that feels this way?

I wish I would've archived my IM about this... because it's the comment I would make here :> As an artist I do want comments. Honest comments. I sort of decided when posting my stuff a few days ago that I am not going to allow members to "rank" me because I don't think it is neccessary. When I love something, I often just write that I love it or maybe one thing I love about it, but I have been prone to adding images to my favs list without ever commenting on them. (naughty cara!) Often when I do have suggestions re: improvement I will not give something a ranking at all when the image hasn't had many viewings (sometimes I will rank but often I don't) because I don't want my opinions to influence anyone else's. After all, I am making my comments for the benefit of the artist. Lately I've seen a lot of emotional comments made in a certain gallery I browse (though it is not my medium to post in) and I think that ppl are getting confused about what constructive criticism IS and some ppl are taking offense on the behalf of others, who may or may not actually be offended, and things are getting a lil crazy. I've seen many artists discussing their future on this site with their posts and I think it would be a shame if this site, that is so new to me, started losing artists in droves. What I think is that those in charge of the site address the situation by making some changes in the site itself and I did email my suggestions to the site admins. As for some of the conflicts, well, we're all human (so far as I know ;>) and as humans and as artists in whatever field calls to us, we can be emotional so drama is bound to occur now and again but, if the site were tweaked a bit, perhaps the drama would be lessened. Just my very lengthy 2 cents worth. cara

They want support and encouragement. Even the most diplomatic constructive criticism runs the risk of hurting their feelings. Full-scale honesty is a guaranteed recipe for disaster. The hope is that if you encourage all of them, maybe 3 to 5% will go on to develop as skilled and talented artists.

i always say what i like first, then nicely say what could use improvement. if im afraid of hurting someones feelings, then i send it in a private message. on the other hand, art that i just dont like, i dont comment on or rate. its not my style, so i really dont have anything to say about it. heres my method lol once a night or so...i browse the gallerys. i dont look for names i know but i do stop and open up thumbnails that catch my eye. if i like i comment, if not, i drive on. if i can offer helpful advice to make the image better no matter what style it might be i offer it. and i hate it when people say they dont post for comments or for other people. every artist likes to know their work is appreciated and enjoyed. if they didnt want comments or was making for themselves, they wouldnt put it on the world wide web or would,like lots of artists, turn off comments and rankings. where mateo said "They want support and encouragement. Even the most diplomatic constructive criticism runs the risk of hurting their feelings. Full-scale honesty is a guaranteed recipe for disaster. The hope is that if you encourage all of them, maybe 3 to 5% will go on to develop as skilled and talented artists." i think that is way off. if we cant be honest here, where we come to learn, develop and grow as artists, why have a site like this? Heres my motto. be honest. if they dont like it, then they are not ready to become a professional artists (because pro artists get constructive criticisms all the time) and or should turn their comments and rankings off. thats like saying follow the crowd and lets hope something good comes of it. also..remember the fine line between opinons and critisim. you should only post helpful comments to make the image better...not oh i dont like her outfit, or her hair should be blonde or i dont like that you put two girls in the picture. thats opinion and subject to the artists concepts and ideas. but if the lighting is off, or a boob is poking through, or something along those lines i dont think anyone should pad their egos as they will NEVER get better that way. its like telling a bad cook omg this is so tasty! your gaurenteed to be eatting crappy tasting food untill you come forward with the truth, and help them improve. oh one last thing..... soooo damn tired of seeing the dont say anything dont make waves, blah blah blah posts. change can only happen when we make it happen...for all those who are willing to suck it up so that they dont upset people seem more worried about making friends then making and viewing top notch art.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And ditto on the private messaging too... I have begun to do that a bit too :> cara

Please - PLEASE. Tell me what I'm doing wrong, if I'm doing something wrong. I do this for fun, but I would like to do it for a living eventually. So constructive criticisms are welcome. RC

I think the general rule is that you can offer constructive criticism in all the galleries except the Poser gallery.

If they don't ask you directly- don't give it. So many here are not makeing art but useing the software for self therapy!

I think constructive criticism done in a polite way is the most important thing we can give each other. How will we ever learn little tips and tricks, see things from anothers eyes unless we are open-minded. If comments are just to stoke the egos of the poster, maybe then there will be hard feelings. Maybe they should have their own sites so that adoring fans will flock to them and stroke their egos all they need. I havent been here long so I am careful about suggestions I may make due to lack of experience on the technical issues. On one of my first images I got a message from someone telling me how to direct the eyes so they arent staring blankly and I was so thrilled!!! I didnt have a clue how to do that! I see images from people that have been here for ages with tons of postings with their people staring blankly at nothing and I wonder how they would take it if that suggestion was made to them? I have no problem when I see an image I really like to say how beautiful it is, after all, with all the work and effort put in, it deserves it. But to do it by who's name is on the image is just wrong. How sad that we cant find a happy center point where we can kindly help each other out. If you do your art just for yourself and you dont care what people say, or dont think comments are important, then turn them off or keep your pictures in your own little puter and look at them all you want. But I am here to learn, be inspired, and communicate with others traveling the same path. And, there are some here, that want to make a living with their art and for them, honest opinions are crucial and I am sure they are trusting the memebers to be honest with them. I agree with above that saying things like, I dont like that color hair, well thats personal and really not necessary, if it was your picture then you could make the hair any color you want. But, honest things like, the hair is sticking straight into her skin,or the pose is great but she really isnt sitting on the wall, try moving her back, well that is something that needs correcting. Pointing this out, little flaws and details will help the artist to be more aware of the little details, and not just throw things together for the sake of getting something up to post. I for one am looking for the honest opinions and if you honestly like it, well say that too, thats cool by me :) LOL nuff of me carrying on !

also..remember the fine line between opinons and critisim. you should only post helpful comments to make the image better...not oh i dont like her outfit, or her hair should be blonde or i dont like that you put two girls in the picture. thats opinion and subject to the artists concepts and ideas. but if the lighting is off, or a boob is poking through, or something along those lines i dont think anyone should pad their egos as they will NEVER get better that way. its like telling a bad cook omg this is so tasty! your gaurenteed to be eatting crappy tasting food untill you come forward with the truth, and help them improve. I certainly agree with that and I wish I could see more of it, since it would surely help me improve my images. The sad part is that a lot of ppl don't seem to know the difference between opinions and helpful comments. I've gotten some like "that looks like a pan pizza" when it was clearly a firepit, how does that help improve the image? I guess a lot of ppl don't want to put the effort into thinking of something constructive to say and that's why most are the "Great image" and "nicely done!" type

Not everybody knows how to fix everything, I'm limited by what I know how to do myself. For instance, I wouldn't know how to make something look like fire, rather than pan pizza, so I can understand telling the artist that something doesn't look quite right and describing how so. I give all types of comments, and some, I admit, could have been more gentle. Obvious things do tend to irritate me, like someone's arm completely poking through their breast, because I can't figure how that could have been missed. Just seems careless rather than from inexperience. Sometimes I say "that's excellent" because the overall impression to me is that it looks great, I admit I don't notice every flaw. And if I think that critisizing something, no matter how nicely, will be percieved as a personal attack, I tend to avoid it all together. So there ya go. If my comments are enabled, say what you wish. Oh, except for something like "how did you get so many nice comments on this piece of crap?" LOL cause even I have limits.

some of my closest friends here I made when they found fault with my work :o) I don't have a problem with constructive criticism unless the person finds fault with every image I do and that has happened and really gets to you after a while. I do find it hard to offer helpful advise because i lack the confidence in my suggestions unless I know the artist well. I left one once and though the artist appreciated it everyone else attacked me to best to keep my mouth shut at times and just point out the parts that I do like and there is always something I do

This topic seems to be disussed here quite often. I have a question: are the seemingly negative or discouraging comments coming from professional or trained artists attempting to mentor and critique others for improvement, or remarks made in artistic ignorance (I made such a remark recently, because I completely missed the point of the artist)? Before people get bent out of shape, perhaps they should consider the source? I have realized I need to develope my "artistic eye" a little more. That was a free lesson in itself from Renderosity- and I'm glad I got it.

Constructive critisim I can take, it's the sarcastic remarks that tic me off. For example, I spent 3 days on one image painting her hair. None of the comments I got had anything to do with her hair they were all about how her boobs defied gravity. Then I see another image using the same exact pose and over 50 people practically pee'd themselves rushing to make comments over how gorgeous it was and how great the hair painting was and no one mentioned her boobs. I don't think people realize that brown nosing the more popular artists around here basically gets no one anywhere but helping out the new artists like me would not only make them feel good for lending their expertise but would go a long way towards helping the not so hot artist improve themselves. And you can give critisim nicely, you don't have to be a jerk about it.

Here's an idea when making constructive comments: suggest HOW to improve. Somebody may know something someone else does not. And if you don't know of any way, say so. But again, I have made helpful suggestions before and they were not too well received. I guess it depends on the personality type. Some want to learn, and some want a mindless slap on the back, not caring if their work ever improves. And some commentors' vocabulary doesn't extend past "OOOH", "WOW", "Gorgeous", etc. Eh - well, that's my two cents.

I would like to chime in here. I personally welcome any crits on any of my images. I feel like sometimes though that I am on the recieving end of being one of those artists that get tons of oohhhs and ahhhhs on all of my artworks. Based on many of these conversations I have monitored since I have been a member it seems that if you get between 30-50 comments on your work that you are frowned upon. Based on what most people are saying those people don't deserve that many comments. Almost like it seems unfair to the other artists. I mean is that the consensus here? The other thing people complain about it seems is If you comment on someones art you are at risk of being a post slut...I may be confused here, but I thought the whole reason of displaying your work was to get feedback on your work. Not all of us comment on work because they need to solicit comments on thier own gallery. Sometimes those oohhhs and ahhhs are well deserved, and I for one don't think you should have to apologize for recognizing someones hard work. That's just my 2 cents. Thanks Michael

I dont think that is the point at all Hythshade. I think its more of people saying its wonderful just for the sake of saying something when there are obvious things wrong. Have you never looked at an image that was really sloppy and there were 25 comments all saying how perfect it was? I dont think its a matter of how many comments you get, its the quality and honesty of them. If it is a wonderful render, then by all means say its wonderful. I think alot of people are bothered by the obvious, comments that are untrue just not to make waves. There are always ways to kindly help someone out on something that might be overlooked or something they had no idea on how to do. Appreciating someones hard work is a good thing too. But, you have to realize there is a middle ground where its nothing but BS, and I think that is where some of the problems come in. I think that some people mention that when someone has 40 or 50 comments that they dont comment because at that point, what can you say that doesnt sound like you are repeating everyone else? But 40-50 comments on a sloppy picture just because of the name on the post and not the quality of the work, it another thing all together. hope that clarifies some :)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12358&Form.ShowMessage=1968725

No comment.

Thank you to everyone that posted a comment on this. I've read everyone of your postings and I take every word to heart. Glad to see many of you feel the same on this topic. I've browsed through all your galleries and you're all very talented artists in your own right. Don't stop rendering, don't stop creating, don't let people's lack there of comments or encouragements stop you from making your art. It is by supporting each other, growing and learning from one another that separate us from the pack of mindless back slappers. See you all around the galleries. :)

I read your thread Rockatansky. I don't mean to be offensive, but this is exactly what I was talking about. I guess where I am confused is why it matters what other people are saying about other peoples artwork. If it's not your image why do you care? I noticed that you had a few comments on some of your galleries, that I might add had 27 ooohhhss and ahhhs, 20 ooohhhsss and ahhhhs. If it bothers you so much I'm just wondering why you don't turn off comments? I really don't mean to sound like I'm flaming, I really am just trying to understand why it matters. Just to play Devils Advocate How do you know that most of those people aren't getting crits in Private messages? Maybe you are just seing what's on the surface, because people didn't want to embarass that artist by posting crits in the open... I mean I certainly don't feel qualified to say who's art deserves more comments than my own. Especially since art is subjective. As far as how the comments are being stated, maybe some people truly are inspired, and can't seem to find the words that would properly describe what feeling a particular piece evokes. Once again I just don't think people should be criticized for complimenting someone else hard work. For all I know the crits will either be asked for in WIP venues or asked for. Be it open gallery, or private messages.

But that's my point...I don't want Oooooohhs and Aaaah's, I want positive crticism. Or at the very least, mention of exactly what it is I have done right (lighting, poses, composition etc.). I like comments, that's why I allow them....I just want people to think first!!

Rockatansky I just browsed your gallery. Had I seen your images I might have aahhh and oohhed and pointed out something I really like about each piece...in my opinion I think your art deserves the ooohs and aahhs. Having said that I tended not to look at other galleries but the Poser gallery and now realized I've lost out on seeing a lot of great artwork. Also not having much skill in the 2D area I did not think I could comment on the art there. I've learned that Poser galleries are very popular. Since I changed my postings to mixed medium ....I certaintly don't get as many viewings or comments (not that they were many to begin with...don't get me wrong I appreciate every comment I get) anyway....yes it's nice to have our work acknowledged and receive comments but it's more important for me to futher my skills then my ego. Maybe what some of us are looking for here is a place for constructive support, a place to learn and better our skills. But what we have at renderosity for the most part is a place of people (to steal geoegress's words) using software for self therapy.

Oh i'm reading the other thread.....wished I had known this was being dicussed in 2D...great discussions though...great points being made in both threads about basically the same topic. Small world isn't it?

It just shows that this goes on all over Renderosity. I've had IMs from 2 site members who think we ought to start a petition to remove the Hot 20. But, I don't think everyone is keen on removing the hot 20... Also, Doodles, you've also read this thread: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1975810 in the Poser community, right? cara

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=dukun

Yeah that's a good idea... Get rid of the hot 20 and punish those that deserve to be there just to pat the egos of those that can't make it. The hot 20 gives us something to strive for. It's amazing how peoples opinion change once they get thier image in the Hot 20... If you want criticism there's a simple solution...Ask for them. Put your image in WIP, or ask in the image description.

Message edited on: 10/26/2004 16:47

The prob with the Hot 20 (in a number of the communities) is that often they turn into more of a popularity contest than an actual reflection of artitic merit. My suggestion in the Poser thread I mentioned in my previous post was... "As for the Hot 20, well, that seems a lil more difficult. Do we really NEED a "Hot 20"? We've already got the "Most Viewed" link, perhaps though the "Most viewed" should have a bit of tweaking... Most Viewed subfield: by day, by week, my month, by year and all time viewing" Because things can get tons of views even if they don't get tons of votes... I post in the writer's gallery, because that's my medium. We don't usually see as many posts as any of the other galleries that I've looked at and our Top 20 tends to be more varied day by day though, overall, it is dominated by one of the other writers. That's cool because I know that since there are so few posts in our gallery that most of us just look at the main gallery page and look at everything. However; I have stopped browsing the Top 20 in Poser because it is often dominated by the same ppl, and multiple images by the same ppl. I will browse through the first few pages of new stuff and look for eye-catching thumbnails and go from there, plus look at my fav artists notifications. I would really like it if the Top 20 was indicative of cool, innovative stuff all the time, but it's really not. Even if say an artist had multiple images being voted for, wouldn't it be nicer if they only appeared once on the Top 20? Perhaps all votes for a certain artist could only equal one place on the Hot 20 and then if you clicked on their name (or some thumbnail) it would open straight to their gallery, that would at least give some of the other Poser artists more of a chance to get on that list. And, like I say, I know NOTHING about Poser, I just like the stuff in that gallery... cara

"Most viewed" really means nothing, even when you break it up. It can mean popular artist, great thumbnail, contoversy, nudity, pin-up, interesting title, or this artist commented on a lot of peoples work and a lot of people reciprocated. It's not neccessarily indicative of a fantastic or even good image. If it gets tons of views and not a lot of votes or comments, that might tell you something also. Some really fantastic images I've seen had very few viewings.

I guess the question is, is there really any way to help correct this situation that the artists can live with AND that can be stopped from just being a popularity contest? What did you think of my off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion that artists can only take one space in the Hot 20? As I say, it's not as much (if at all) an issue in the Writer's Gallery so far as I know... cara

I honestly don't know what I think of that idea, at the moment... it could backfire, not really fair to someone who is deserving of two spots on the top twenty. As I said in the other thread on the poser forum, if comments were private to each artist, people would have to think of what to say on their own, and they'd have to decide whether to vote all on their own, and they could feel free to post a critism if they wanted with out worrying about any backlash from the rest of the viewers. And as I also said , I'm sure that would have it's own set of problems too.

it could backfire, not really fair to someone who is deserving of two spots on the top twenty. true, which is why I thought instead of opening to one image, it could open to their gallery (too bad we can't have more than 3 featured gallery items, eh?)... And I do like your suggestion about comments being made private to the artist but sometimes I like reading other comments to see what sort of an emotional response (if any) other ppl have had to things that have really caught me... cara p.s. at least it feels like we're doing SOMETHING in discussing this though :>:>:>

Yep, I like to read some of the other comments too. Honestly tho, sometimes the other comments have influenced me to say something other than what I would have originally said. My first impression might have been that something was really well done, until I read comments pointing out flaws, which I may have never noticed, on my own. Ideally, I suppose other comments should be read AFTER I've made up my own mind... but I have flaws, much like other people, and the system...I don't think anything is going to work perfectly or satisfy everyone.

I'd like to sign on for the "I welcome honest, constructive crits too" team.

The best model (and probably render) I ever did is of a Flying V guitar (it's in my gallery with all the comments) and the feedback I got enabled me to make it even better.

Well, OK, for better read "get the bloody thing right" but you get my drift? ~lol~

Without constructive, and I stress the "c" word here, crits we can easily get lost in our own little worlds where everything is warm and fluffy and we can do no wrong. It can feel nice, but it don't feel real.
If you see my stuff around the galleries please feel free to add your comments, both positive and negative, or I'm never going to get any better and you'll have to suffer my same level of mediocrtity for ever.

P.S.
"Yor pic iz a big pile of (insert misspelled expletive here) and U cant do art" does NOT count as constructive. ;)

Message edited on: 10/26/2004 19:36

Hi everyone as most of you know I am new to poser as most of you know I am just learning the basic's myself. Now being here in other galleries as well I know for a fact a lot of comments and votes are from others that do not know anything about poser,or the work being posted. Darn rights it is a personality contest or a "fan-clique" to quote PoserKatz, which is not fair and does not help any one. Yet again leaving crude or nasty comments (NOT Constructive comments) is not fair either. I think every post deserves some kind of comment even as little as I like it, look for something that is good, but not deliberate nasty one's. I think people should know the artist personally before making a nasty one, which should not be in comments but in an IM, I for one think the hot 20 should be abolished why because I've seen what it can do in each gallery I belong too.Thats my 5 cents worth (inflation ) :) Carolyn see part 2 please

Part 2 I'll admit I do have followers some come from poser, fractals,Terragen, and from other galleries who the last 3 either know nothing at all about poser or just like the image. However, I do not feel it is fair to be condemned just because 2 of my posts made #20 in top 20 for a max time of maybe 4 hours at tops which I did not feel they deserved to be there, Those commenting is a reflection of what they see not to be taken to heart.. However I do not feel anyone should deliberately attacked when someone who is trying hard to learn So I ask anyone who see's something that can be improved to do so through an IM why?for example I had been noted twice regarding hair I frankly didn't understand so I simply asked, I got my answer and now I understand now maybe more communication between each other privately would solve a lot of unhappy comments. All I am asking is know me before condemning me or my work Carolyn

To address a point made by Carolyn: I know for a fact a lot of comments and votes are from others that do not know anything about poser,or the work being posted. But that doesn't negate their opinions either. (though I know you know that :> I just didn't want that to seem vague, hope you don't mind, Carolyn :> ) However, whenever I make any sort of "in-depth" comment, as of late, I try to remember to point out that I don't know anything about Poser (or whatever) and I jsut try to view things with an artist's eye cara

Don't mind at all and yes I do know that, I just get a bit carried away sometimes and may not get my point across in the way I meant it to be. Yes me too If I do not know the program at all I comment on what I feel then I add " but what do I know I certainly do not know your program" or something to that effect. so I hope no one thinks I think I am any expert fair, fair from it. I just enjoy art :) Carolyn

Doodles on 10/25/04 09:16 [Printer Friendly] I am never sure if people are looking for or want constructive, real, honest comments on their art. I wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings so on those pieces where I feel certain things can be done to improve it ....I just don't comment because I don't want someone pissed at me or think I'm a know it all biotch. I for one like it when others tell me how I could improve a piece, long as they are'nt an ass about it.

agreed :> cara

agree on helpful tips I think there is a way to say things without hurting anyones feelings, to me there just is no place for the nasty's

First of all i don't consider myself an artist,it's to big a name for me.I just enjoy creating the images,for me it's just anoyher way to express myself.I just make the things in my mind visual and that gives me great pleasure but that's just me. To me any kind of comment is welcome [also no comment is cool] sometimes you can do something with it and sometimes you can't because you create from a different state of minde or you are aiming for something else. I believe that in creation everything is possible therefore it is difficult for me to tell someone something about improvement because I don't know his or her state of mind and his or her aim with the image.[if there is one] If i know about his or her aim with the image then I can say something to improve if that is neccesary but most of the time you don't know anything about the aim of someone. I usually on average got lets say about 20 comments on my images ,most of them possitive but I got a few with point's of improvement from the commentators point of view. i enjoyed them all. I truly believe that in my case those who comment do that to let me know that they did enjoy what they saw.[that's also possible you know] A few peolple did enjoy but thaught it could be better and also told me that in the comment.I assume that those who viewed the image and did not enjoy didn,t left a comment. that's cool with me those are all possibilities in creation. To me also if someone wants to say something i don't mind if it's in the comment or through IM. If I think it's rubbish i don't react on it and if it got to do with point's of improvement in a normal way imo ,I react.[see part 2]

I want to say also that pointing out points of improvement by others in comment is not the only way to go forward.You can also be critical of your own images. you can compare them to other images wich are realy cool in your opinion and than you will know what to do. I learned a lot by analyzing images wich I thaugt where awesome for whatever reason.[how they might did things and how they achieve technical things ] and by keeping my eyes open in real life. And besides that you must know your tools and try to improve there also and let your imagination be free. If i'm in doubt or want to know how something is done I also just aske. To put it short i'm not looking for anything when posting ,I just get great pleasure to create an image. I post it to share it with others and maybe to hear what they think but the pleasure was already there in the creation part of it.From the posting moment on everything is possible from comments that it rocks,to comments with improvement points to no comments because it is viewed but not cool enough,but the pleausure of creation was already there and I try to stay critical for myself. So all kind of comments are welcome but not neccesary in my case to improve or to enjoy.They can help you to improve but there are other ways also. Well that's about it and english isn't my native language so if you read strange things, you know the reason for that. Later.

1 more thing...Doodles you said you want the truth. For me to be able to say that I got to know what you want to achieve whit the image,Otherwise i can't tell you the truth about that specific image,I will just say something which is not necesarily the truth. That's it now i', finished. Later and see you in mexed medium.

Longrider, fair enough. You're right. I should state what I'm trying to achieve with my images so you all can tell me if I'm hitting or missing it.

first of all hey to all in the forum personally i am a developing artist and consider criticism to be the most positive form of commenting - i will never get better with comments like ' you're doing well' and 'great clouds' Personally i always check the gallery of the person who has given the comment - if they are a professional then it may be worth listening to them or if they are only a beginner then maybe you dont chose to listen to that comment - its up to the individual

Cara, Yes I read that thread also and it was what prompted me to post my question. I don't necessarily have a problem with the top 20. I think on paper it's a great idea, I just don't agree with how it's being managed and I'm tired of seeing all the same people make it on there. I think someone already suggested this in that thread but I would love an area where site moderators or someone who knows art, showcase images that are really good, have artist merit and for whaterver reason may not have gotten a hundred oohhs and ahhhs. I'm telling you that's the gallery where I would strive to appear in. Because I know it counts. I know it's based on my art not my popularity. I've been thinking a lot about this topic since I started the post here...and have been thinking about what everyone's said about it and was starting to think that maybe I was just bitter and envious of other peoples success and popularity in the galleries...but after going back into the Poser galleries and seeing all the over flattering oooohhs and aahhhs and saccharine comments, I knew it wasn't just me. I'm not envious of people's talents or success.....but I am bitter that undeserving people and images get all the attention while so many other images in the galleries go unnoticed.

That would be consuming for the site mods too though... I am still even more keen on my idea of the Hot 20 only allowing an artist to appear on it once and maybe beside their name, the artist could select ONE of their images as the tuhmbnail and then if you clicked, instead of opening on jsut the one image, it would open to their gallery. That way all the votes an artist got, no matter what the image was, they could only get one spot. It would also be nice if ONLY the artist knew how many votes each image had recieved or if no one knew how many votes and that could stop the potential of ppl getting all their friends to give them X amount of votes to get into the Hot 20. To use the Writer's Gallery as an example: right now (9:59 a.m.) in the Top 20, I have 4 poems, TallPockets has 7, netsia has 3, unchained has 2, Blush has 2, digitalgrey has 1 and Satanimus has 1. But if netsia, TallPockets, Blush, unchained and I each only held one spot (which opened to our gallery) then there would be 13 more writers who could then appear in the Hot 20. And, it would be nice if the site would allow us more than 3 featured gallery images and it would also be nice if there was a way for our individual galleries to be sorted by viewers. (ie) Sort gallery by: most viewed, most votes, date ascending, date descending, and artist's favourites (which could be our top X amount of our fav creations). cara

and the ranking of the Hot 20 could still be on # of votes but would say if it was for one image or mulitiple images under the artist's name. cara

Cara, I like your idea of having the thumbnail open to the gallery so it frees up spots for more members to be on the top 20. This is a great suggestion. That way perhaps in the Poser gallery alone it would open up more room for other people to make it there. It's a great idea but I don't know if the owners of this site would put such effort and work only to satisfy a small group like us.

I'd like to add something that doesn't seem to have been considered. I may be one of the worst offenders in the fluffy comments category, but I just like to see people pushing the envelope and working at the top of their abilities!! If that seems to be the case, I give my opinion, I can forgive alot of flaws in an image if I believe that person is actually trying to improve. I learned in the same manner as Longrider. not from criticism but from studying the works of those I admire and asking myself How did He/She do that. If they ASK for suggestions I offer them as diplomatically as possible!! IMHO there are too many who give harsh criticism to stroke their own feelings of superiority and that can be devastating to someone who's just starting out and doing their best!! My 2cents worth...