Attached Link: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/248996/Action/FullPreview

The 3D designer Andrey Kravchenko is marketing his latest generation female model (link above on Turbo Squid) Masha. I would have posted an image or two here, but was not sure if that would be a violation. She may not be everyone's cup of tea, but she rings my bell. Among many attractive things about Masha, I like that her clothes are "non-tight fitting."

Here are her numbers:

Media Type: 3D Models
Published: Dec 13, 2004
Geometry: Subdivision
Polygons: 22,649
Vertices: 12,252
Textures: Yes
Materials: Yes
Jointed: Yes
Animated: No

Is 22,649 polygons considered low res or high res for poser?

Can those in the know say

1. can this model be brought into Poser
2. if so, will there be any morphs, or would one have to create morph targets for it.
3. what about the textures and materials and props?
4. i assume she would have to be 'boned' in Poser, is that accurate?

Any wisdom welcome....

::::: Opera :::::

Message edited on: 02/10/2005 01:18

Nice character!! Looks like Romala Garai!!! I like her!!

1. No Poser will import 3ds format the model is in .max
2. No you have to make your own morphs
3. The textures would probably be workable depending on the UV map. As for the rest... See #1
4. Yes

btw for $320.00 I'd expect her to hand deliver the CD, install it on my computer & then stick around for at least dinner :-) edited to add: the poly count is roughly equivalent to Vicki I (28,984)

Message edited on: 02/10/2005 01:34

couldn't they export in .obj? I asked another vendor over there if they would do that for me on a model and they said they would. ::::: Opera :::::

Looking at the wireframe, it's very low-res compared to V3 and other millenial figure -WTB

1.yes,It will take alot of work though,and you'll need 3dmax to convert the .max file to an .obj. you'll also need to rig it for Poser as the max rig won't transfer 2.the morphs are all stored in a modifier in max,you'd need to export each morph target to use them in Poser 3.the textures are mirrored,the clothes would need to be rigged for use in Poser 4.yep "Is 22,649 polygons considered low res or high res for poser?" compared to Viki at 70 odd thousand I'd say this is low poly, Max does have very good smoothing though and the shown renders more than likely have a 'mesh smooth' modifier being used.(which means the polycount is doubled) $320 is pretty steep compared to other Poser models Cheers Stefan

I guess you better wait for Seraphira's model

Attached Link: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/249164/Action/FullPreview

For $195.00 she had better be nice looking. As bad as Vicky is, she is a lot cheaper. And something like Eternal Possette is of the same polygon count and will only cost you $5, and looks just as good.

Per Stephan's comment about Max smoothing and doubling polys, my question would be...how much of the excellent look of the renders is because of Max lighting and those smoothing effects? If this model would render as beautifully in Poser as the samples show, she would be worth 195.00 to me both as a top-notch "look" and for the hair and clothes...but only if I am committed to learning the setup room skills this would require. I like to challenge myself that way. Helgard, Vicki is not on my radar at all, and I am already onto Judy-EJ as my fundamental model. But there is something about this Masha model..... ::::: Opera :::::

ok, I'll bite: what model does Seraphira have on the horizon? ::::: Opera :::::

Poser has smoothing as well, if you haven't noticed - it's what we tell newcomers to turn of when they complain about about inflated poles and spears ;) In fact, Poser's method of doing it (REYES) is more efficient (less RAM usage, infinitely smooth, no edges no matter how far you zoom in) than the method 3ds max and most other programs use. The polycount of that figure: I would rate it as perfectly sufficient. Why would you want more polygons? Looking at the previews, I don't see any missing details (OK...you could spend another 40k polys if you want a talking vagina...).

do a search in the Product Showcase forum for Kaimira or Seraphira. A very ambitious project, but one that combines max with Poser versatility. Not finished yet, but imo worth keeping an eye on.

Hmm.... Dont like the body, the hips ar way too narrow for my tastes. they make her look a little pre pubescent :-) The face could be acheived by careful morphing of V2 and the price......PLEASE!!!!!

i'm with you, stewar. I've been getting terrific results with Judy/EJ and her mesh looks much like this Masha mesh, and the 30-40% quicker rendertime (I measured it carefully) over Vicki...gotta have that as an animator. And even in close up, she is smooth. I am getting exquisite control of her face, as well...so...why WOULD anyone need more polys indeed? I'm glad to hear the facts about the Poser smoothing feature. I usually turn it on for closeups, but you have to go pretty darn close to notice much of a difference. ::::: Opera :::::

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but it says the geometry type is SSD - I think that's the caged polygon count. When frozen to a smooth mesh that Poser et al will import (like .OBJ), isn't the the meshed poly count going to be much, much higher?

Yes, but why would you? What do you need those extra polygons for?

i took a look at the Kaimira project....VERY ambitious...and asked over there what the poly count will be. stewer and dan....is it a choice? or when she comes over is it inevitable the model will be high poly? ::::: Opera :::::

You would probably get th 23k model, I guess. Otherwise there would be no point in mentioning that number at all. Are you considering buying her? Don't underestimate your initial question #4 - building a good rig is quite some work.

$320 or $195. I feel it is just a mesh, and then skin textures will come later. V3 for free at DAZ then another few dollars for the head and body morphs. Free textures...and such here. What am I/we going to go for?

I'll agree with Wolf359... She looks young. It isn't just the hips, but the length of the legs to torso give the impression of a 12-13 year-old girl. I wouldn't want to use the model in anything overtly sexy, because it wouldn't feel right. The price isn't bad. Polycount doesn't matter; it is what you do with the polygons that is important. She has a nice sweet appearance, 4 hair styles, and some clothing... that is decent value. Carolly

"The price isn't bad."..........."that is decent value."

???? Got a headache now. Sorry..I am not a wealthy person.

Message edited on: 02/10/2005 08:03

Shes great !

I really like the fact that the modeller tried to use only as much polys as absolutely necessary.

Also the proportions are much better than any of the Vickies:
Masha is 6 heads high, not the ridicoulus 8 1/2 heads Vicky and other figures are out of the box.
(Maybe thats why she appears too young to you, Carolly. But 6 heads is perfect for an adult woman. Its Vickys proportions that are wrong, not Mashas.

Of course the price is out of reach for most private users, but the stuff at Turbosquid is aimed at professionals who can spend a given budget for a project.
And sometimes they want their stuff to be expensive so they can claim enough money for their next project. LOL.
And also remember that Vicky sold in much greater numbers than any Turbosquid model, and that you had to buy a morph pack, too.

I dont like V3 (And all their derivatives) very much, couse I think they are unecessary heavy.
Nothing against more polys IF their are used to make a model more realistic.
But with that many polys as V3 a Posette could have seven abdomens, four buttocks, bend like a pretzel without breaking, have shoulders that would make DaVinci cry and a talking vagina on top of that. LOL.
(Not to mention ralistic elbows and kneecaps)

Anway, I like Mashas looks and it will be fun to see if I can duplicate their face in V2 or even NEA.

stahlratte

stewar: "Are you considering buying her? Don't underestimate your initial question #4 - building a good rig is quite some work" i am considering buying her, but won't until I am committed to taking on the boning and building of morph targets. My method of self teaching is to learn on a needed project (but not one that has a crash deadline). I would do some tutorial and practice work in the setup room before I would trigger the difficulties associated with Masha for me. But when I see something like this model that have a certain 'pow' to them.... ::::: Opera :::::

Attached Link: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/251257/Action/FullPreviewhttp://

yeah ....but we already have a dork :-)

"i am considering buying her, but won't until I am committed to taking on the boning and building of morph targets."

Opera, if you had 3dsmax and used it for animation, I'd say go for it. It's a very nicely modeled figure, it's already rigged in Character Studio (big plus), it comes complete with some morphs and clothes, and it's a relatively "light" mesh, with room to add a couple iterations of meshsmooth to it for higher detail and smoothness, etc. The price is VERY reasonable, considering it would be far more unique and versatile than many of the characters available for Poser, since not many people would own it, and you would be making most of your own morphs for it (which no one else would have) based on a different topology than the plethora of millenium/unimesh characters out there. Something like that is best used natively in Max, because it already takes advantage of Character Studio's biped and advanced physique modifier, weight mapping, etc. Basically, it's rig is just far more intricate than what you can do in the setup room in Poser, so it's going to work best in Max.

That said, bringing this model into Poser isn't going to be any better than using any of the other models available already. In fact, it would be MUCH more work when you have to completely re-rig it for Poser, and unless you're very good at setting up Poser's joint zones, it's not going to bend, animate, or pose any better than what's out there now.

Bottom line: With all that's out there for native Poser figures (and 3rd party figures from DAZ and Sixus1), I think it would be a poor investment, at that price, if all you were buying it for was to use it in Poser. I don't think you'd get any more satisfaction out of it than you get already from EJ or something like the lo-res V3, but that's just one man's opinion.

;-) Message edited on: 02/10/2005 11:59

Wolf, there's an abundance of female figures, why not level the playing field for the men. I'm certainly most interested in having that texture.

Ummm...Hold off a bit....slow down. Poser6 is coming out. Never know what characters come with the package. Then if not satisfied. Then go all out and spend the high dollars.

hauksdottir wrote: "I'll agree with Wolf359... She looks young. It isn't just the hips, but the length of the legs to torso give the impression of a 12-13 year-old girl. I wouldn't want to use the model in anything overtly sexy, because it wouldn't feel right." Most scholars agree that Mary gave birth to Jesus when she was between the age of thirteen and fourteen years old. If Jesus developed in the womb at the normal rate that a human embryo develops, then the Holy Ghost impregnated Mary when she was between twelve and thirteen years old. Since the Holy Ghost is one of the persons of God, that must make God a pedophile. I wonder if the Holy Ghost ever thought, "This just don't feel right!" Sometimes I wonder. As an example, read: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm Personally, I like the way that she looks, and I don't think that she looks all that young. I would consider purchasing a Poser character with that look. I agree that the price is a bit high.

Does the guy I picked out kind of remind you of Cath's Bryan texture?

This is a beautiful pro-type model.

For a hobbyist like me, the $320.00 price tag puts her well beyond the limit for a single model. Sure, I'll drop $320.00 in the marketplace -- but on several dozen models. Not on just one.

BTW - price is a problem with most everything found on Turbosquid.

Otherwise, she's gorgeous.

Maxx, I was hoping to get your perspective, thanks. I've already been leaning in the direction of that thinking...more or less "I've still got plenty of eggs to fry already with the character creation using my EJ strategy, etc." and "by the time I go thru everything required to Poserize Masha I might not be ahead of the game." The deal killer would be, as you seem to indicate, that even if I took this on for the express purpose of learning rigging in poser, this model still would function no better than what I already have, that it's power is optimized to run free in Max. We'll see. It's just that as soon as I saw Masha i got that sensation, as you picked up on, of "far more unique and versatile than many of the characters available for Poser." I will likely stay the course. I just completed an effects-test 1 minute animation, and am in pre-production of a six minute vinette with soundtrack and interiors and two characters. Let's see where that goes first, if I will be staying in Poser, etc. ::::: Opera :::::

I second Xeno's sentiments... too rich for me. Hypothetically, if models could be bought as a community project with different people working on different aspects that might make the price tag a little less of an obstacle...

What I'm surprised no one is mentioning, is that she's a subcaged object. Poser does not support subcages, and needs to be "frozen" example: I'm working on a poser character.. it hs 1900 "subcages" in lightwave. once frozen, it has 17,000 polys. If you "do the math", that means when she's frozen, she'll have 201,576 polys, about 3-4 times the number V3 has. So her mesh would be the largest I know of used in poser. (the lagest I current'y know of is Sixus's freebie Alein queen, at about 100,000 polys). And as far as learning to add morphs, and rig, here's a good timeframe example: Neftis started Elle almost a full year before her release, and she already knows what she's doing.

"OK...you could spend another 40k polys if you want a talking vagina..."

What? I've been working on one of those for ages! Has someone already made one, is it Mimic compatible? Do you think there's a market for one, or are there enough of them in the 3D graphics world already?

Bookmark

BTW if anyone here hasn't download thier additional content at the bottom of the turbosquid page.. the avi is very well done, and the clothes movements are superb.

She is pretty nice!- But you are really going to need Max to make her work correctly. It is only (about) $3,000 with Character Studio, after all... ;-) I suspect if she was rigged in Poser she wouldn't work nearly as well as any of the recent DAZ figures, their mesh is optimized for Poser, after all, and DAZ spent a lot of time on setting them up and doing the JCM. Sort of shows what a bargan we get on Poser stuff, too! I measure her at about 7 heads high, incidently, maybe a tad less - 6 3/4. She seems short in the chin to nipple area, mostly. About 7 - 71/2 heads high is thought of as the normal range for an adult.

I really like the fact that the modeller tried to use only as much polys as absolutely necessary. As Gareee mentioned above, this model is based on a subdivided mesh. What that means is 3D Studio Max adds form and softness beyond the 22,649 polygons so that it actually LOOKS like it has more polygons. In order to get a subdivided mesh to work in Poser, you have to "freeze" it. If you freeze the 22,649 polygons, you remove the subdivision capabilities and the soft roundness of the model. Though Poser will round out the edges somewhat, you are also talking a model that has roughly the same number of polygons as Posette. If you "freeze" the polygons so that you increase the resolution to maintain the softness, you'll end up with as many or more polygons than Victoria 3 has. That being said, the model you are talking about has a very nice face, but her body seems too slight. She looks very much like a teenager vs. Victoria's adult figure.

Sort of shows what a bargan we get on Poser stuff, too!

This is true.

A Rolls Royce is a beautiful car. Unfortunately, only a tiny minority of people can actually afford to own one.

On the other hand -- Wal Mart is a far, far larger business than Macy's.

3D Hobbyists outnumber pros by a huge number. Potentially, there is a lot more money sitting in the shallow hobbyist end of the pool than there is in the deep pro end of the pool...........

Sell cheap......and in volume. That makes more money than selling a few expensive items to a few people.

I think she looks pretty good. The wireframe mesh looks good too. I would freeze her for Poser or perhaps have 2 versions. A low res one and a high res one. Anyway, I sent an e-mail to the address at the bottom asking if I could convert her. Her expressions and clothing are really great as well.

"What I'm surprised no one is mentioning, is that she's a subcaged object. Poser does not support subcages, and needs to be "frozen""

Well, that's kinda what I was hinting at when I mentioned applying meshsmooth iterations to her in 3ds. ;-) Basically it's subdividing (smoothing) the base cage either on render or in the viewport or both with max's meshsmooth modifier... Precisely one of the reasons why a model like that is best suited for use directly in it's native app, which in this case is 3dsmax. Message edited on: 02/10/2005 15:20

Arty: "...the model you are talking about has a very nice face, but her body seems too slight. She looks very much like a teenager vs. Victoria's adult figure." and others as well.

It's amazing the difference in perception....

I see Masha as, yes, slender, but adult, about 23-28 years old, and really sexy in a healthy adult way. Not as underage. There is strength in her profile in image 9 (count across rows) and her hands.

I see all varients of Vicki as a representational distortion of women. V does not even evoke an "age" for me, as she does not engage my willing suspension of disbelief.

That's my two cents.

::::: Opera :::::

I sent Maya a message through his site, I hope he gets it in time.

What I'm surprised no one is mentioning, is that she's a subcaged object. Poser does not support subcages, and needs to be "frozen" You don't need to "freeze" it. Ever tried that "smooth polygons" options in FireFly?

"You don't need to "freeze" it. Ever tried that "smooth polygons" options in FireFly?"

Well, that's true, Stewer. However, when dealing with Poser, I like to have a decent amount of mesh density in order to detail some morph targets if desired. I realize you can do some extraordinary detailing with displacement, but as far as I'm aware, it can not be animated unless you use an animated texture, which could be a hassle to control.

Anyway, smooth polygons is great, but there's no way to control it. It's either on or it's off. For instance, in Max I can select a specific group of sub-object polys or vertices and apply a desired level of smoothing to JUST those very specific parts as I see fit, and also weight them as desired, which will effect the surrounding polys in particular ways. There's a much deeper level of user control over the smoothing fuctions.

However, Poser's smooth polygons is much more efficient for an overall object or scene. Message edited on: 02/10/2005 19:52

The Firefly's smooth polygons doesn't support weight mapping - it's global to the whole object. SSD modelers allow you to map (by vertex or edge) different smoothing amounts across the cage. This smoothing is parametric in nature (like displacement mapping in P5) which makes for dramatically smaller files. Areas that are mapped to be "flat" in SSD come in rounded with Poser's Smooth Polygons which looks quite different. Freezing the object forces the system to create the actual fixed mesh.

"SSD modelers allow you to map (by vertex or edge) different smoothing amounts across the cage." Right. Plus you can animate the iterations on a meshsmooth modifier if desired.