Hey all - sorry I haven't been around commenting on your stuff for a few days. I was recently banned from 'Rosity because some viewer complained that there was PT nudity in my two-year-old gallery. I was unaware that we were required to go back through our hundreds of old posts every time the TOS changed, so I was penalized. Just wanted to give anyone else who didn't realize this a heads up. AND.....I dunno know about any of the rest of you, but I would dearly welcome some clear-cut and and consistently applied TOS rules instead of the arbitrary mess we have now. I don't really like having my freedom of expression constricted because the powers-that-be are afraid some wacko will get turned on by an imaginary kid running around without a shirt on. But at least I could ABIDE by the rules, no matter how ludicrous they were, if they were clearly stated and uniformly applied to ALL.

???? You were banned BEFORE being told that? That sure doesn't seem like a fair way to do things. 8-( I'm not saying this to add to the already-high volume level in this forum lately but ... I know there have been changes lately in the Poser forum mod staff ... but Renderosity SHOULD really contact members FIRST and explain what is going on and why there is a potential of being "banned." And to give people a couple of weeks to act upon it (because they could be away on vacation, or sick, or something else). Having someone complain and then immediately banning another member as a result of it seems a very unfair response.

Message edited on: 03/11/2005 12:06

checks calendar... Is it october already???

I'm not sure exactly what PT nudity is, but that's still pretty lame anyway. I'd definately expect some advance warning or a request to remove/modify an image before being banned myself. Seems the fair thing to do.

I'm just thinking ... In this case, it seems Renderosity assumed that Heart'Song was aware of the need to clean out galleries of nude PT content. But I can easily see why she was not. Notices on the home page are frequently missed. For example, it is VERY rare that I look at the stuff on the home page because I usually come in here to see what's happening in the forums. I immediately go to the Forums page. And even then, I only visit the forums I am interested in because I don't have them all displayed. If a notice is put in the community forum, I might not go in there. And with all of the forums here there is just NOT enough time to go through all of them. SO ... there has to be a better way to notify members that they have to clean out their galleries, or that there is a change in the TOS. To assume that we all know what is going on is not a good idea. So if someone complains about someone else, and if it has the potential to result in a banning, PLEASE give the "offender" the benefit of the doubt. Write them an email, and allow them time to respond and react. Most of us DO have a life outside of Renderosity.

Thanks for the support, Deecey. I think the Admin felt that because I had other postings removed in the past (not for violation, just because somebody found the pics sexually stimulating) that was all the warning I would ever get about ANYthing. The problem with all of this (issues of freedom of speech aside, I mean) is that when the Admin leaves it up to viewers to decide what's objectionable or not and doesn't follow a clear-cut set of guidelines there is no sure way for anyone to adhere to the TOS.

I hate fairies!!! I gonna complain & get 700 Poser users banned!!! OK, now that I got that outta my system....What a load of crap! As Deecey said "Notices on the home page are frequently missed". Hell, I don' even go there, I got my links directally to where I hang out. But it seems to me that once upon a long time ago when I signed up here they asked fer my email addy. Sure, there was a checkbox I selected statin' I don' want the newsletter, but IMO sumpin' like changes to TOS that apply to everybody should be sent to EVERYBODY, not just the ppl that read (or even occasionaly glance at) the home page or newsletter.

It all boils down to people are just friggin scared that some overly sensitive judge out there will take offense to their images and shut the whole place down. The site's just trying to protect it's self with the new TOSes. Although I'm wondering if there couldn't of been a better why then banning the artist, umm i donna know like maybe a Renderosity sysadmin just deleting the offending file and then bringing the issue up with the artist.

Yes, I agree, thixen. And another thing that bothered me about it was that the Admin who was supposed to notify me of the ban sent her email under her own email addy instead of "admin@renderosity.com" so of course her mail got sent to the spam-holding pen and I had no clue why I suddenly couldn't get into the gallery!

Attached Link: http://www.deviantArt.com

This site is not a fair place anymore, Heart'Song. Personnally I got banned too, had multiple pics erased abusively, even one showing a simple white square... There are some other sites that are still open minded such as deviantArt (see provided link) or RDNA. Now, about your case, Heart'Song, my feeling is that if someone gets offened by a nude PT, then he/she should see a psychiatrist quicly. That reminds me the old times, when some corrupted priest were sexually attracted by certain women and burnt them for sorcery. We live the same situation here: someone completely insane is ruling the others. And what does it give? An insane system. It is quite a shame to be taxed or suspected of chil porn each time we use a PT in a scene. Maybe some of the moderators should open their eyes a little bit and see what's around them. In the 70's Led Zepelin used a pic, for one of their great LPs, showing group of nude children (it was a beautiful piece of art by the way). As far as I know it is still produced and distributed with the same cover. There is a very thin line betwin morality and puritanism. USA are definitely a puritan country. "In God we trust?" Let me laugh! How many crimes had been commited in His name? My only advice is "GET OUT OF THIS PLACE, IT STINKS!!!"

Oh, another remark: when my several pics comments were erased, and whhen I got my 3 days of bannishment penalty (that were 4 and half in reality) I did not get any message oe email before the admins took their decision but after they did it. I saw some others that had the chance to be contacted before and were able to do to the necesseray adjustments. I have never been given this chance. As you said the tos are not applied equally and the mods are not behaving equally neither according to they want to get banned...

I've no way of knowing if anyone is telling a complete and full story here, but I'd agree that a consistent admin procedure would be a good thing. And the unfortunate reality is that sometimes direct action has to be taken. There's bits and pieces in these accounts which certainly shouldn't happen. For instance, that problem with the address the admin email came from. I have spam filtering too. I use whitelist filters for some email source domains (I'm not going to give names, but they include a couple of major US ISP-operations). And I assume that an official Renderosity email with come from renderosity.com, just as eBay emails only come from eBay. Because anything else would mean that some abusive idiot could send out emails to a lot of artists.

Attached Link: http://rendervisions.com/

Hi Heart'Song I got hit by the current anti-fairy gestapo too. Totally innocent images, some which have been posted here for OVER 5 years. I did notice that it is a 'small' handfull of mods who are doing it all who have taken it upon themselfs to sanitize the site. All it takes is one or two of the 'holy-er then thou' bunch to bitch to them (knowen allies) to get an artist on the wrong end of the delete button. I will NOT ever put up with delayed selective enforcement. As of last week I had my entire gallery removed from here. No more products will I sell here. No more freebees will I post here. No more images will I display here. As of now- all my freebees, any new products, and all images are at the last and ONLY open artist site on the net. The ONLY site that stands up FOR THE ARTIST. rendervisions.com geo

Heart'Song, I have enjoyed your artwork for a long time. I better look at the tos again, I thought it was just seductive and showing genital that broke tos. Not some cute little creature running through the forest.

Hi HeartSong, When the TOS change was put in to place regarding child nudity (some time ago) we requested that members make sure their galleries were within the new rules of the TOS. With so many images posted each day, we can't review every image that is uploaded. When we start receiving complaints and then see a violation we act upon it at that time. I am sure you can understand that Renderosity must follow laws, rules and regulations such as US, State law, paypal regulations,etc as well as our own TOS. I belive I explained all this to you over the phone. As far as the email regarding your 3 day ban, I am not aware of anything being sent out by a personal email address from a mod and you made no mention of that to me. We do notify all members each time they get images removed, warnings, bans, etc. When a spam filter catches it, there is not a whole lot we can do about that when it comes to a ban as the IM function wouldn't work in that case but we will email and IM upon just a removal of an image. The decisions about violations are brought to the WHOLE team before any action is taken, so they we can be consistent and fair. Thank you for understanding. Stacey Community Manager

I've seen far worse offensive images in the art gallery and they still remain. How come I can view violent content images? How come I can view sexed up females? I can view half naked females with their nipples showing threw their shirts in the galleries and no one is griping about that. It's called double standards and it's killing the artworld. All it takes it one complaint an a piece of artwork is removed and said member banned? I'm holding off putting up a gallery here then.

Stacey ... the team might think that the implementation is consistent and fair, but certainly does not appear that way from the outside looking in.

I don't think I have ever seen any image of Heart'Song's that I would consider objectionable. I have seen far riskier images done by some of the "favored merchants" that generate a lot of business for this site.

When we start receiving complaints and then see a violation we act upon it at that time. I am sure you can understand that Renderosity must follow laws, rules and regulations such as US, State law, paypal regulations,etc as well as our own TOS.

And what happens if someone was not aware that they committed a violation, for the reasons I stated above? If a person is not aware that they were committing a violation and suddenly find that they are locked out for three days, don't you think that would come as a bit of a shock?

It wasn't fair to Heart'Song. Especially when I look through her four-year-old gallery and see nothing that is of bad taste. I can see if it was a gallery full of images that pushed the boundaries, but that is definitely not the case here. The saddest part about this is when situations like this occur, it is rare to see Renderosity admit that they could have made a mistake, and could possibly owe someone an apology.

Message edited on: 03/11/2005 21:36

If you see images that violate the TOS, then please bring it to a mods attention. We will be glad to look in to it. And what we are talking about in this instance is child nudity not adult nudity. And we don't ban for one violation, we would remove the image if it broke our TOS and contact the member to warn them about adherring to the TOS, not ban them on the first offense. Thank you, Stacey

Warnings are sent to the members to prevent banning. The ban is an event that occurs when the member continuously and counciously begins breaking the TOS. This thread os going ok so far. I hope it stays in line. <---signature---> Free your Maya Opaque3D http://www.digital-opaque.net

(sigh)

I'm in my fifties. I don't appreciate being treated like a child, thank you.

I am fully aware of the TOS and thus far haven't said anything in this thread that violates it. All I am saying is that it appears, by looking through her gallery, that her art is not offensive and that perhaps a mistake was made.

Message edited on: 03/11/2005 22:35

I think the Admin felt that because I had other postings removed in the past (not for violation, just because somebody found the pics sexually stimulating) that was all the warning I would ever get about ANYthing. If the previous pictures were not TOS violations, then you should have gotten a warning before an outright banning. It seems they skipped over a few steps here and got "ban happy". Consistant, evenly applied TOS discipline would be highly appreciated, I'm sure, but that's rarely the case here at R'sity. bonni

I don't have anything in my gallery, so I don't know how notifying artists work. But from what I understand is that news is posted on the site only. Renderosity sends out emails notifying members of items on sale etc. Why not send out news emails indicating rule changes etc. The person can either opt in or out of receiving these emails, and if they opt out and miss out on a significant change like this one being discussed, then they have no one to blame but themselves. It seems that the way news flows on this site is inconsistent from what I've been hearing people say, and not everyone goes to the main page all of the time. I know I don't. I have my book mark set to the forums, and if I want to go anywhere from here, I click the links at the top. Also, a way to avoid inappropriate images would be to have a moderated upload for images. Meaning that any images that are uploaded to the galleries is not posted until it's passed by the moderators/admins of this site, who will either release it or vito it. While that might not be an ideal answer, it would eliminate the "nudity" that some are offended by, and give the mods/admins control over what is posted in the galleries, thereby avoiding having to ban people for misunderstandings or not having been up-to-date on the rule changes.

I think that would not solve the problem, specially if the rants about not accepted images begin to appear. Why wouldn't we get complains about that if members even complain about something so simple as not getting comments on their images! As for the email news, I'll check that out with the powers that be. I don't know if they are sent out or not. <---signature---> Free your Maya Opaque3D http://www.digital-opaque.net

We already go through the galleries, as much as we can, to monitor images and make sure that they fit within the TOS. If we find something questionable, we, as a team, make sure that there is 100% something objectionable before actioning it. Having all images "moderated" before they are uploaded would be a collossal waste of time and resources. When a member violates some aspect of our TOS, they are sent an email or IM. As was stated before, we don't ban on the first offense. When (and if) the TOS is changed, it is posted on the site, and sometimes, a link is given on the message boards. However, we can't please everyone. Can you imagine the flak we'd get if we did email every member when the TOS changed? Even a little? The message boards would be absolutely FLOODED with "Stop spamming me, Renderosity!!" messages. sigh can't please everyone all the time. It's a simple fact. Jeni

When a member violates some aspect of our TOS, they are sent an email or IM. As was stated before, we don't ban on the first offense. Except that it appears that Heart'Song didn't get an email or an IM, just an outright ban. bonni

It appears that way because that's the way Heart'Song presented it. She did receive warning. All of the images in question were pored over by the whole team, not just one mod/coord. All decisions that have to do with removal are a team decision, not a decision made by one member. Jeni

And what we are talking about in this instance is child nudity not adult nudity. I hope you're not saying that adult nudity is ok here? You can't say that child nudity isn't ok then turn around and say adult nudity is ok because it's an adult?

Quote from the TOS: "Members/Users will not use this community for; Any practices that affect the normal operations of the community (Admins will take whatever steps are necessary to restore service). Transmitting any libelous, defamatory, or any other material that could give rise to any civil or criminal liability under the law. Personal attacks. This includes but is not limited to, destructive, abusive, defamatory communications in any form, and retaliatory attacks from personal attacks. If you need assistance, please communicate with someone from our Renderosity Team. Destructive commentary/communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack (Trolling). This applies to any communications within this community, whether in the forums, art galleries, graffiti wall, chat, or IM. Advertising or linking to any publications and/or web sites that are age restricted due to content, and/or pornographic in nature. Posting Unacceptable Images or Writing Themes: No Rape [actual or implied] No Torture [defined as: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, wounding, crucifixion) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure] No Sexual acts [no depictions of sexual intercourse - between humanoids/non-humanoids/animals - no masturbation] No Physical arousal [This includes but is not exclusive to: no images of an erect penis/ no images showing the inner portion of the vulva or vaginal area] No Explicit sexual content [No manipulation of breasts/nipples/ no sexual situations/ no implied sexual acts/ no extreme or explicit S&M bondage situations/ no lewd or obscene sexual references] No Genital contact with ANY object, other than sitting or clothing. No depictions of young humanoid characters/children giving the appearance of being under the age of 18 where genitals are displayed and/or in erotic, seductive, provocative poses or context. Since age is difficult to identify with 3D images, this will be at the discretion of the Renderosity team. No character attacks, which could be interpreted as defamation of character, slander, and libelous. A signed model release with Photo-ID must be provided upon request if posting images with photographic nudes." Yes, Birddie, "Adult" nudity is allowed. In your user profile, there are options for you to check so you do not have to view nudity or violence in the galleries.

As a former mod, I'll confirm that decisions are team decisions. It isn't just one or two people who go out witch-hunting... but a committee of staff members who are ALL invited to review a questionable image. There is some discussion, but the final decision is one agreed upon by the entire staff. This is a good thing. Individual attitudes and biases get subsumed to a communal standard. There are procedures for removal of images where the member is notified exactly why the image was removed, the section of the TOS is quoted and linked, and the member is cautioned to refrain from continuing in the behavior causing the image to be removed. Members have complained about the form letter, but it does cover everything. If a member continues to flaunt the TOS and post objectionable images, there is a system of warnings leading eventually to a banning and then a permaban. There are some members whose images were (or are?) a matter of weekly discussion because they seemed to take delight in walking the edge of the rules. There are others who got caught, were embarrassed, might not even have thought about the effect of what they were portraying, and who decided to stay within the rules for this site when posting here. The rules CLEARLY say no exposed genitalia on humans or humanoids which appear to be under age 18. This rule is how old? 2 years? It has been a long time since tehre has been a change in the TOS and the changes were well-publicized and heatedly argued over. This includes fairies, satyrs, statues, babies in washtubs and boys at the watering hole. We might not as individuals agree with the rule, but that is the rule. It doesn't matter if the image is beautifully postworked, or if it is of a scene from the Sistine Chapel or The Library of Congress, or if it would have been ok 5 years ago... if the genitalia show they must be covered. That is the rule. No genitalia on underage figures. Considering the growing conservative morality of this country, the state where Renderosity is headquartered, the restrictions placed by PayPal, Visa, and the banks, and a host of other concerns, our desires for artistic freedom have little place in the balance. Currently. 10 years from now the pendulum might swing back. Once someone has had several images removed, as Heart'Song admits above, it is most certainly their responsibility to abide by the rules. How many warnings does it take? And if someone truly wants artistic freedom to post whatever they can imagine, they can build their own website or go to another. Last I heard, though, even Renderotica refuses child nudity. Carolly

She did receive warning. So she's a liar? And for the record, I'm NOT arguing that people shouldn't have to abide by the TOS. I'm saying that if, indeed, she didn't receive a warning before the banning, procedure is not being followed. bonni

hauksdottir: "There are procedures for removal of images where the member is notified exactly why the image was removed" False! I sent many emails to admins and mods to know for what exact reasons my pics were banned (I mean a true argumentation): all I got was "you break the tos" nothing more. If you call this an explanation, let me laugh! "And if someone truly wants artistic freedom to post whatever they can imagine, they can build their own website or go to another." You are completely right. Ro is certainly not a place where freedom has a meaning so far. One last word about the tos rules: during their trial at Nuremberg, most of the nazis used to say (to defend themselves) that they were just following orders and rules... The problem here is that this rule is not a good one being dicted by a not so moral puritan principle. The site should be renamed for sure: what about PURITOSITY? It sounds pretty good, no? "even Renderotica refuses child nudity" So what? Where's the big deal? Is Renderotica a reference in any kind in freedom of expression? Never heard about that. Do you mean that even pornographic sites wouldn't host Heart'Song pics? Well, you could not have been more insulting her. geoegress: Thank you for the link. I'll upload my stuff there too. :)

This makes me so sad. Heart'Song is an excellent artist. Her works are so creative and IMO, sensitive. I hope she doesn't leave this community as so many others have done in the last year or so. What a loss to everyone when creativity is stiffled. :-(

Hey, Rockets! If the rules states that you get banned each time you offend those puritans, it is surely a good thing for the open minded people to go somewhere else, don't you think so?

Maybe so, but that would only let the puritans win. I'd much rather stick it out and wait for the pendelum to swing the other way. Btw, just saw your private gallery showing at RDNA. What a great honor...congratulations!

Thanks a lot, Rockets! What makes me particularly grin is that one of these images used in the spotlight is the one that got me banned from here... This is a good proof that the decision taken here are much discussable even if they're taken in team. A whole team of narrow minded ones is still narrow minded. You say that leaving this place is letting those puritan wins. I don't agree. Each time someone leaves them, they fail. Drop by drop, member by member, they're loosing something more. I don't call that a glorious victory.

"What makes me particularly grin is that one of these images used in the spotlight is the one that got me banned from here..." OMG, you're kidding me! There was NOTHING in any of those images to deserve such treatment! I'd say an injustice was certainly done! I suppose I'm not looking for a victory, just serenity and a place to put my huge gallery. I'm sure the minute any of my images are removed or that I get banned, I won't hesitate in leaving.

Oliver, I don't know where you say you weren't advised what you did wrong I have copies of all my correspondance to you conserning why your images were removed. We always send a IM along with the automatic email that is sent when a image has been decided on to be removed. In those IM's we clearly state why the image is removed and what section of the TOS it broke. Now if someone doesn't understand the TOS which to me is very clear then they contact us and we will explain it to you as I did with your questions. I was very spacific what you did wrong. As stated above we don't just pull images on a whim they are discussed by all members of the Mod and coord team before a decision is made so we get all views. SndCastie Community Admn

"There was NOTHING in any of those images to deserve such treatment"
Yes, that's the opinion of many people. But not the opinion of our "beloved" team here:
"Hi Olivier,
After further consultation with my colleagues and reviewing your posting record, I am issuing you with a 3-day site ban. As previously stated, I will also be asking admin to review your permanent membership."
Appreciate the familiar salutation. That illustrates their respect for me pretty well.
Some claimed that excuses should be make to Heart'Song. Don't even think of that. Giving apologies is not the politic applied here.
To quote again someone: "And if someone truly wants artistic freedom to post whatever they can imagine, they can build their own website or go to another."
How sadly true.

Sndcastie, you must be joking, I guess! Saying "you break the tos, there is an erection here" without giving any argument to proof such words is not an explanation. You should learn how to justify your decisions without hiding yourself behind the admins. I have stored all your messages too. I'm ready to make them public and fully commented and you?

I wish to add that this image has been posted in 5 other sites using the exact same kind of TOS. At this time, I got no complain about it. On the contrary, many people congratulated me for it. Does that make any sense for you, Sndcastie?

"This is a ploy by you to fight the so called censorship of your work. I myself and karen have explained to you that if you have a problem with me or her to please contact Spike at spike@renderostiy.com or any other adminsistrator here and not to do it in public. If you continue these tactic's we will be forced to permantly ban you from this site." Those were your words. I don't call that a fair dialogue or explanation.

Quote from elizabyte: "She did receive warning. So she's a liar? And for the record, I'm NOT arguing that people shouldn't have to abide by the TOS. I'm saying that if, indeed, she didn't receive a warning before the banning, procedure is not being followed." I'm not going to call anyone a liar. What I'm stating is that the whole facts weren't being presented. We were made aware of images that may or may not have followed the TOS. Many images were reviewed. Some of them violated the TOS, some of them did not. I don't know Heart'Song from anyone here, really, and I am definitely not going to throw around "liar". I'm just here to present one side of the view. People seem to think that Mods and Coordinators here are ban happy evil mongrels. We don't just go through random galleries thinking "Gee, what can I ban so-and-so for??" If any of our members are uncomfortable with certain images, we, as a team, review them. Sometimes, the member is right. Sometimes, the member is, themself, on a witchhunt, waiting to get someone in trouble. Most often, it's someone who violated the TOS, and wants to make sure everyone else goes down with them. Oliver, First of all, I find your analogy insulting. If you feel we are akin to Nazis, why are you even a member of this site? That is a low blow that was wholly unnecessary and absolutely sickening. When we reply "You broke the TOS", that should suffice. The TOS are there for many reasons, to protect Renderosity AND its' members. In our TOS, as I have posted above, it clearly states that images including genital arousal are not allowed, and erections are included in that. The entire team is comprised of adults, and are well aware of the visual differences between an erect and flaccid penis. As SndCastie stated, if you have a problem with the way mods, admins and/or coordinators are working, contact Spike. He's a nice guy and very fair. MorriganShadow Poser Coordinator

People seem to think that Mods and Coordinators here are ban happy evil mongrels. Given some of the stuff that I've seen people banned for, uhm... MOST mods probably aren't, but some certainly seem to be. I've known Heart'Song for a while, and I'll wait until she clarifies, but she said she didn't receive a warning, that she had never received one. I can't see why she'd make that up, to be honest. She's not exactly known for being a troublemaker. bonni (who probably is known for being a troublemaker ;-)

Contacting the admin is completely useless as long as the ban decisions are taken with his agreement. Talking to him, just like talking to the mods here is like trying to discuss with a wall. You say there was an erection? I say there was not. You're 10 to think there was one? I can bring you 10 more people that will say the contrary. As I told, there are 5 other sites that shows this pic without any problem. Where does that lead us? That lead us to the fact that even if the tos are clear, the interpretation of these rules and their application to specific pics is a subjective process. Taking these decisions in team is better than individually for sure but that does not prevent you from mistake, specially if the whole team share the same kind of approch on those things. You did not like my analogy? I did not like the decisions taken against me neither. I could have used other comparisons inspired from History: inquisition in the middle age, talibans in Afghanistan, the Crystal Night in the nazi germany, the jewish affairs in France under the Vichy regime, the trials of Salem and so on. Each time censorship has been applied this kind of way, the system was turning into a parangon of intolerance which is one of the first signs of a growing tyrany system. So, I do maintain my analogy. It is well aaplied in this case. Why do I keep on in here? I want to give my support to the people who suffer from those abuse. What is certain is that I will never post any pic here anymore. I will never buy anything here anymore. Ban me for life if you think that solve the problem. You say I'm sickening? What is sick here is the tos themselves! Is a nude child image a perverted vision in itself? Who is insane: the one that makes such pic or the one that feels excited by it or even the one that imagine someone could be excited? The last one is like the second with a subtile diference: he projects his own perversion onto imaginary people. Both are sick. Cerainly not the author who can't be taken for responsible of the insanity of others.

I can assure you that we don't just ban anyone for a first offense of a TOS violation. We give several warnings asking them to please abide by the TOS and this includes HeartSong. What I believe HeartSong is trying to say is that she never received the email on this particuliar warning which resulted in the 3 day ban as the other warnings would have been sent by IM and email. This one was only by email because the IM wouldn't have been seen by her until after the ban was lifted. We don't want to ban anyone this is why we give several warnings first to try and get the member to comply with our TOS. When they don't then we have to take the next step. We try our best to make things consistent and fair. Maybe it doesn't always seem that way on the outside looking in as someone above stated. But we get a team consensus before any action at all is taken. And of course if someone doesn't agree with the decision, mods will tell them to contact Spike in the past and now me. I did speak with HeartSong on the phone and went over any incidents and issues surrounding the 3 day ban. Thank you, Stacey Community Manager

Dear Elisabyte,
Even if Heart'Song were the biggest trouble maker in the world (which is really not the case), she had to be treated like the others, equally. That is called "justice", a notion apparently foreign here. I find quite shameful that the mods themselves do admit to treat people differently according to their personnal opinion: "this is a trouble maker, he criticizes the Hot20, he gives critical comments on famous/appreciated/popular fellows/friends, OK, we'll get rid of him!"
This is how it works. Mods can still pretend it is not, the facts are the facts.

Message edited on: 03/12/2005 09:53

We don't want to ban anyone this is why we give several warnings first to try and get the member to comply with our TOS. As someone previously pointed out, perhaps it is the TOS that is the problem, and not the members. The growing influence of the moral majority is coming down hard on every facet of our lives right now. Being that some people come here to get away from stress, we really don't need it here too. I'm not saying that we should turn this into another Renderotica, but "fairy art" is hardly pornographic. 8-(

1. Have you tried contacting Spike? He doesn't always side with us, you know. 2. I did not state that you were sickening, only your analogy. 3. Hooray for the other sites that allowed your image. It is not allowed here. Those are our rules. 4. No one is being abused. If members don't follow the rules set forth in the TOS (which all members agree to abide by when you join, and it is the members' responsibility as a member to make sure you understand them) there are consequences. Repeat offenses result in bannings, from 3 days to forever. 5. Either it was an erection, or you morphed it to be one heck of a long penis that's just hanging there. The simple fact is this. The original argument was that Heart'Song felt that it was unfair that her fae images were deleted, and, after at least 3 warnings, she received a short ban. She states that she didn't receive warning, however she did. Were it not against the TOS and unethical to broadcast the specifics, I would do so. Her images depicted nude renders of fae folk, many of whom would have been considered to be around 12-15 if they did not have wings or elven ears. We have to take that into consideration. This was not, and is not, and will not be turned into, a witchhunt against Heart'Song, or the Mod/Admin/Coords of this site. I agree wholeheartedly that the author cannot be held responsible if someone gets pervertedly excited at an image of an underage nude. The fact remains that the TOS states that underage nudity is not allowed. I highly doubt that will change. MorriganShadow Poser Coordinator

Olivier, We have a GREAT mod team and you are completely wrong about the process or how it works. They work VERY hard and should be appreciated for all they do. As Carolly stated above (Thank you Carolly) she is not a mod any longer but now as a member she knows that we don't do things the way you are insisting we do. And the decisions we make, we are comfortable with as its a group decision. Thank you Stacey

Oh wow, now I'm really confused!!! None of the removed pictures that got me banned showed children with genitalia, and none had sexual content. One of the pictures wasn't even a nude, and def wasn't a child - she had a bottom on, but the mods said the bottom "brought attention to her genitals"!!!!!! I just read the TOS portion that hauksdottir posted above, and all it says is "no genitalia and no erotic content" on underage humanoids. I feel like I'm going nuts!! Will somebody PLEASE explain what the heck is going on? The only characters I've depicted with full genitalia have clearly developed breasts and other physical characteristics of adults, and certainly weren't in erotic situations. How can that possibly be a violation? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE CLARIFY!!!!! This is so depressing. I feel weird and sick and sad. P.S. elizabyte: I don't think the admin meant to say that I RECEIVED notification, I think they meant to say that they sent it. They prolly weren't trying to call me a liar. They did send the mail, it just got turned into spam because they didn't send it as an Admin, they sent it with their name on it.

Stacey, I won't repeat, just read above. MorriganShadow: "Hooray for the other sites that allowed your image. It is not allowed here. Those are our rules" The sites I was speaking about use the same tos. Do you have any explanation for the diference of behaviour here and there? "Either it was an erection, or you morphed it to be one heck of a long penis that's just hanging there." Ah! We made a lot of progress! For the very first time a mod express the hypothesis that it might only have been a long penis! Great! By the way, I don't think that long penis are forbidden by the tos, are they?