I strongly suspect that 99% of the surfers here at Rendo frankly couldn't care less about what any of us professional forumites think on a given subject -- pro or con. I would tend to agree. (Ack, there I go, agreeing with Xenophonz again, what's this world coming to?!) And I wonder why it's so important to the Powers That Be that those few of us who DO hang around in the forums have to be all nicenice happyhappy non-political non-controversial all the time. If only a handful of people are visiting and participating, who cares if an even smaller handful want to argue with each other? bonni bonni

Ack, there I go, agreeing with Xenophonz again Habit forming. ;)

You can see I was so distressed I double-signed my post. Sheesh. bonni

You can see I was so distressed I double-signed my post.

Yes.......agree with me often enough, and you'll be as popular as I am!!!!!

Fellow forumites might even occasionally talk/laugh/curse about you in other (Poser) places!

Talk about feeling important!!!!!! Just imagine the mark that one is leaving on the World at large! Especially the 99.99999999999999999999% of humanity that have never even heard of Poser, much less a mystical thing called the Poser Community.

They'll remember everything that we've said here in another 100 years -- you bet.

In fact, they might even remember us in the next 2 years. Or 3 months.

Maybe. If we can only make enough noise to attract attention to ourselves for a brief moment in time.........

I wield Great and Terrible Powers in the Land of Poser.

With a mere click of the optical mouse, I can make Art!

Or at least: I can make Victoria. Do something.

It's good to realize where matters stand. Reality. Gravity.

Helps to cut down on the drama of not-so-earth-shaking events.

agree with me often enough, and you'll be as popular as I am There's something to look forward to! ;-P They'll remember everything that we've said here in another 100 years -- you bet. In fact, they might even remember us in the next 2 years. Or 3 months. Maybe. If we can only make enough noise to attract attention to ourselves for a brief moment in time......... Inhabitants of the Poserverse have ridiculously short memories, on the whole. One crisis after another, and with every new shitstorm, the previous "great outrage" is more or less forgotten by all but a few who archive these things or have particular reason to remember. And yeah, the goings-on in Poser forums is... Well, let's just say that on my deathbed, I really doubt that I'll be regretting that I didn't give some random person at Renderosity a piece of my mind or that some random person on some other site called me uninformed or whatever. The Poserverse is interesting to me, but all-in-all, it's not all that high on my Cosmic Importance Scale. I kinda think that if you take it all TOO seriously, you'll go crazy, and as I've already been that and have no wish to repeat the experience, I generally take it all with a big grain of salt (for my popcorn, of course). bonni

The Poserverse is interesting to me, but all-in-all, it's not all that high on my Cosmic Importance Scale. I kinda think that if you take it all TOO seriously, you'll go crazy, and as I've already been that and have no wish to repeat the experience, I generally take it all with a big grain of salt (for my popcorn, of course).

Good thinking.

The only slight distinction that I would make would be to say that I don't take this very seriously at all.

Poser is a hobby that I enjoy. I can make stories with it. Travel to places that I'll never go in reality.

It's sort of like "traveling" through the agency of reading a good fantasy novel. But I don't base my real life around good fantasy novels.

If anyone does: then I suggest looking elsewhere.

In real life, popcorn is OK -- I'll eat it if it's offered to me -- but it's not a food that I crave.

Good morning, ya'll ;-) SndCastie - I was THERE when the tavern closed, I know kev pretty damned well, I threw 'bear's leaving party and t-shirt do, and bet your ass I'm confirming what he says. There are still some old timers around who lurk enough to remember. As for artist; Being the elitist, arrogant snob I am waves to dialyn, I feel that the concept of artist is someone who expresses something through a medium, and that that someone is willing to grow with his or her art, and working on improving it. Which is why I have a massive issue with Rendo currently touting itself as an artist community, since growing and improving also involve a great deal of being able to see errors and receive criticism. Or being inspired by whichever mood (or flame) takes you, including the negative ones. dialyn - I don't call myself an artist either - dilettante has always been my preferred phrase, cause I dabble, and I'm lazy in my expressions. However - It's getting rather tedious to have to read anything construed as critique against rendo as flamewars and stamping of feet; THAT is not very constructive either, because basially you're patronising a bunch of people, telling them what they're saying hasn't much value. As for originality and imagination - how far can you get with 10 coats of pink spraypaint and the Disney colour charts ? That DOES tend to stretch both originality and imagination but then again, what would I know compared to such luminaries of imagery such as you ? ~S

"I would tend to agree. (Ack, there I go, agreeing with Xenophonz again, what's this world coming to?!)" An end I'm afraid because I believe after searching far and wide, Bonnie, I think you and I have finally truly found God!! God has been brought to us on a new level, sending us passages of wisdom and incredible knowledge, and you and I Bonnie, almost let this get past us?!! I finally SEE, I finally UNDERSTAND for the "the XENOPHONZ" God has spoken and re-awakened my faith and from now on wherever and whenever "the XENOPHONZ" speaks I will 'bow', my ears will wiggle and my lizard hairpin will dance, thank goodness I got myself a better fitting bra size or I'd hate to think how they'd fall out too, from laughing, lol!! Now I know why those BIG GIANT divine letters to the NAME! Now I understand the power of "the XENOPHONZ" and why the membership always increases tenfold whenever he does speak here, his following is massive and great. "And I wonder why it's so important to the Powers That Be that those few of us who DO hang around in the forums have to be all nicenice happyhappy non-political non-controversial all the time. If only a handful of people are visiting and participating, who cares if an even smaller handful want to argue with each other?" Perhaps it is because "the XENOPHONZ" is among us and says so?? Okay.. Really Bonnie, this place has attracted a LOT of attention in many venues far and wide, from Universities, Colleges, Varieties of Professional Businesses and Institutions alike, they have a Magazine that is sold in REAL live stores, they have a movie, and reachout out in so many ways, the Pink Pony fiasco alone put this lace on a huge scale map online, and being as OLD and as BIG and as BLOATED as this place is, it has in itself became the God of Forums in its' particular genre. The forum hand know this, and wish to take full advantage of this, and do so quite well through more marketing and even more ads, (some ads very, VERY questionable of late I might add, I still just can't believe what I see advertised in some banners here that makes the TOS here a pathetic joke not to be taken seriously and DOES make this site look quite PORNO-ISH); again, unfortunatly we, us members, have to look all pretty and dollied up and wear our best party suits and dresses for any occasion more and more, just in case, sowhen some big folks pass through here and wanna see what's happening or what is going on and whether this place is worth some value or investment or similar the forum hand can be at peace knowing nothing horrible is gonna turn someone off and away. Meanwhile, I don't think they are really paying attention to those banner ads and what is being slapped up there?? Okay, here's hoping "the XENOPHONZ" God is in a good mood, and doesn't strike me down for such an overly long posting, don't wish to dance upon "the XENOPHONZ's" parade. LOL!! Sure glad that at least some newer members do have a sense of humor which I know the XENOPHONZ" has, or I sure wouldn't be posting this or joking with XENO this way; that is something I am giggled to see, with a fluttery blink and a happy smile.. Spinner, your last post here above is well spoken. I wish people and the forum hand here would just try and listen to you and try to understand what you are saying; and that is not meant as funny or joking in any way! In fact, I couldn't be more serious. Please, listen to spinner?? She really makes sense here.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=2254638

Since the galleries are what most surfers cruise, I would bet actual Fresh American Dollars that this site is not viewed as "professional" by many actual "professional" people. Nekkid Vickies plopped in the center of a render and childishly decorated with photoshop tubes from the market just don't cut it. By cutting down on forums I feel that the PTB have not increased the professionalism of the site. Better they cut down on the cheesy renders that have taken over this place. Of course, folks can actually PAY to upload more than one cheeseball graphic per day. Sort of the Vanity Press of the artworld. I think an artist is one who can convey feelings or ideas to others, using his/her respective medium. I don't see much feeling in the major galleries, here, anymore. But, hey now, folks can upload and get lotsa hugs. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Poppi, If it is the "conveyance of feelings" you want, you'll really like the May Challenge. :) Carolly

hey Carolly - that's a pretty cool choice of challenge actually :-) Do you think I'll be able to be artistic and have an opinion at the same time ? ;-) Poppi - there's never gallery staple T&A in the rendo marketing campaigns. I get to see them when I buy 3DW, and there's rarely a vicki in sight ~S

hummm, rocks. I might give it a shot...Can we make a sculpted rock that resembles something else?

"By cutting down on forums I feel that the PTB have not increased the professionalism of the site. Better they cut down on the cheesy renders that have taken over this place. Of course, folks can actually PAY to upload more than one cheeseball graphic per day. Sort of the Vanity Press of the artworld." Why not just do what DAZ does (back when we hashed out how the personal galleries would be set up), and force the user to a gallery limit of n images (like, 10?) It's all upside, really: The prolific posters would be forced to keep the thing up like it were an actual portfolio (meaning that they either have to replace the crappier ones with newer, ostensibly more improved ones, or run out of space.) The site also doesn't have to run out to NewEgg and buy 40 more hard drives every week, and there's less overall load on the DB software because it won't have as much to chew through. Limiting uploads to one per week would be nice, too - it would discourage those who have this ungodly urge to post a new render every ten minutes. Perhaps a grace period of unlimited uploads per day on the initial potfolio loads, but after that, it's once a week - and since you have time, maybe you can work on the thing some more and make it better? If the user wants more space, make 'em pay $n/month for unlimited portfolio space/upload-frequency, etc. /P

don't wish to dance upon "the XENOPHONZ's" parade.

LornaW -- did you mean to say "rain upon XENOPHONZ's parade"?

I've never thought about dancing upon someone else's parade -- although the idea does create some interesting mental images.......

Sure glad that at least some newer members do have a sense of humor which I know the XENOPHONZ" has, or I sure wouldn't be posting this or joking with XENO this way; that is something I am giggled to see, with a fluttery blink and a happy smile..

It's always gratifying to be appreciated for one's talents.

Actually, I am glad that some can laugh. I do.

I finally SEE, I finally UNDERSTAND for the "the XENOPHONZ" God has spoken and re-awakened my faith and from now on wherever and whenever "the XENOPHONZ" speaks I will 'bow'

Uh.......no. I wouldn't suggest this course of action. In fact, I'd be dead set against it.

We are all merely fellow mortals here. To claim otherwise might call down lightning on our heads.

Please, listen to spinner?? She really makes sense here.

She has her moments.

I'd say that I agree with her at least 10% of the time.

It ain't all bad.........

Although I suspect that she agrees with me around (-)10% of the time. Merely upon general principles, if for no other reason.

;)

'"and the Tavern. These were closed due to continued fighting,name calling and general attacks against each other." - sndcastie'

I'd have to disagree on that myself. Virtual drunkeness maybe but nothing more. 'Tis a tough one...what's an artist? I'm with Mateo on this. As for the need for a place for 'gloves off' talk..I believe we need it. I can't imagine the artists in the cafes of 19th century Paris taking somebody to task over harsh criticism or abuse. That's what the OT and Vt forums were, at least to me. A place for all of us electronic bohemians to chatter about everything under the sun and how we could put the world to rights if only we were in charge. Still..what would life be without change? Nice to see some familiar names here and thank heavens for the edit facility as my typing hasn't improved:)

Message edited on: 05/11/2005 09:51

Message edited on: 05/11/2005 09:52

Today I've browsed 20 pages of the gallery and found nothing more than two or three Vue pictures, for the first time the Poser's top 20 has more interesting images than those twenty pages!

Message edited on: 05/11/2005 09:59

Hi Ironbear, Just wanted to point out that you are exactly right regarding the Tavern. It was a pretty calm, cool place to be. The reason it got closed was not because of the same reasons as the Den and OT forums but because we knew that it would turn into the same type of place before long. Since we were doing away with OT forums, we just closed the Tavern at the same time. Thanks Stacey

Xeno: The Carriage Return key is a privilege, not a right. thx in advance, /P

thx in advance

Why, you are most certainly welcome........

........my friend!

;)

"and the Tavern. These were closed due to continued fighting,name calling and general attacks against each other." I dont recall ever seeing alot of fighting and bickering in there...even when heated debates and flamewars raged in the OT and Den...mainly alot of peanut shells, and moldy customers either lying around under the tables, or passed out at the bar...snicker

Yes Ironbear I appologize for the misunderstanding on the VT I had included only because it was shut down at the same time as the OT forum. SndCastie

"LornaW -- did you mean to say "rain upon XENOPHONZ's parade"?" No, I meant 'dance' XENO..do you Salsa?? Just don't step on my toes, I hate men that step on my toes, and make sure you don't make me lose my lizard hairpin!! From what I heard, the tavern closed around the time of the Complaint Forum because all the folks ran there and started singing their songs there and more unsavioury stuff started, probably due to all the boze mixed in. I may be wrong, if I am, blame the source, I'm just telling what I have heard. Who's the source? Not telling, but there seems to be plenty of old geizer members around these parts that like chatting with young, outspoken, nosy female members wearing a lizard hairpin, lol!!

"From what I heard, the tavern closed around the time of the Complaint Forum because all the folks ran there and started singing their songs there and more unsavioury stuff started, probably due to all the boze mixed in." For the record: the Complaint forum was long gone and replaced by the OT Forum when the closures happened. The OT was getting (in the opinion of mods) too wild. The Tavern, as Stacey said (see post 69), wasn't, but it got closed at the same time just in case it went that way after the OT shut down. Some of the OT people, pissed at that decision, went and set up their own forum elsewhere. m ;)

As for the galleries I dont care about the content( naked vickies,BOOBS, etc) i just wish more people would learn lighting and composition. poser six has some awesome new lighting and rendering options just look at the incredible poser 6 renders by artists like "MAXXMODELZ". LEARN ,LEARN LEARN!!!!! ;-)

"For the record: the Complaint forum was long gone and replaced by the OT Forum when the closures happened. The OT was getting (in the opinion of mods) too wild. The Tavern, as Stacey said (see post 69), wasn't, but it got closed at the same time just in case it went that way after the OT shut down." Okay, honest mistake.. Suppose either way it was, it won't bring any of those forums back and it sure doesn't look like we'll be dancing in any new open forum anytime soon. Just have to make the best of what is here and hope we don't end up losing even more.

Just wanted to say (and this was mentioned in another thread regarding OT stuff but I can't remember which one, LOL) that we are working on some things that won't necessarily be an "OT forum" but maybe topic specific. For example something like a book forum to discuss books, music forum to discuss music, movie forum. These are just examples of things that they may include. Please give us some time to work on this behind the scenes and we'll let you know when we come up with something that can be done. Thanks Stacey Community Manager

Oh kewl Stacey...how about a "Cheese and Whine" forum then all the whining could be herded into one corner hehe ... Just a thought grin ...

LOL Kym! Don't know about that one:)

Geeze, and I was gonna offer to supply the cheese too..oh well!! LOL.

Well in that case.................. Stac

LOL...this I wanna see. :)

Yeah........the Tavern was a victim... Kev did a great job with it during his time here...It was a good alternative to the OT and The Den..Unfortunatly..near the end it was a Ghost town..

"I joined long ago. The TOS that I signed and agreed to abide by is not the same TOS that is currently in place." Thats a good point. "Stacie - my issue is that the fuzzies and huggles culture in the Poser specific realms of the site dumb down imagery and foster a culture where it's not about helping eachother, in general it's about being as inoffensive as possible." Hence sometimes the truth does hurt. "These were closed due to continued fighting,name calling and general attacks against each other." - sndcastie" That still goes on here in this forum from time to time, so I have to ask why isn't this forum closed too now? J/K LOL

The goal is to be creative. If it is a half-molten rock in lava showing self-destructive rage it is just as valid an entry as a lonely menhir in a Bryce landscape or a photograph of a weeping cemetary statue from 1700. How would a meteorite feel on impact? Joyous or scared stiff? What about a statue weathering centuries of acid rain or bird droppings? I remember one Yosemite scene where I was sketching The Rostrum from the cliff behind it. There is a rock that looks like a potato... no matter what I did, it looked like a potato. A photo would have revealed it as a lumpy grey potato, too. ;) I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, but those of you who model your own meshes have a lot of freedom... and this is a chance to do something that touches the viewer. Carolly

So are we gonna have a forum so we can whine about cheesy art? huh huh?

We have regular whining about too much cheesecake in the galleries......but we don't need to have a separate 'cheesecake & whine' forum for that. The sentiment gets expressed often enough already without one.

Threads complaining about the unending avalanche of cheesecake renders pop up at least two or three times a month. If not more frequently than that.

And there's always a strong bouquet of whine included in the mix.

For example something like a book forum to discuss books, music forum to discuss music, movie forum.

Not a bad idea. Not bad at all.

For some reason, I doubt that we'll ever see a political forum.

Hey! Here's a thought -- why not create a 'Nudity Debate Forum', or, more simply -- the 'No Nudes Is Good Nudes Forum'..........a forum like that would be a lively place, you bet. Never a dull moment. And just think of the advantages: such a forum would remove many lengthy threads from crowding in on the other forums.

Of course, it'd also be likely to draw off about half of the forum traffic around here.

For those members that don't want to see such discussions, we can expand the "ignore" feature to include multiple layers of functionality:

-- ignore individual member
-- ignore whole thread
-- ignore entire forum
-- ignore everyone and everything on the site

That should do it.

Oh, yeah:

-- ignore the Man Behind the Curtain Message edited on: 05/12/2005 00:28

"Hi Ironbear, Just wanted to point out that you are exactly right regarding the Tavern. It was a pretty calm, cool place to be. The reason it got closed was not because of the same reasons as the Den and OT forums but because we knew that it would turn into the same type of place before long. Since we were doing away with OT forums, we just closed the Tavern at the same time." - StaceyG

And... > "Yes Ironbear I appologize for the misunderstanding on the VT I had included only because it was shut down at the same time as the OT forum." - SandCastie

Accepted, and no probs. ;) And I know I'm "exactly right" - I was there. But do keep the record straight, please. There were exactly three "fights" in the VT in all the years it was open. All three shut down fast by the regulars, or by me. Even when the closing of C&D casued an influx of new regulars, it generated a bit of passionate discussion, but no flamewars. Only major fight that happened there was betweeen me and Spike over a thread deletion, and THAT fight happened mostly behind the curtains between me, him, and Tammy in mods forum. ;] KBennet was one of your best mods here for a long time. He not only did a real damned good job of managing the VT and keeping it a decent place to hang out, he was my handpicked replacement when I quit. I don't particularly give a damn on my part whatever revisionist history you care to spin on forum closings. Water off my back, as long as you don't pee down it and try to tell me it's raining. ;) But Kevin doesn't deserve that implied slam from you, Sandie, and he definately doesn't rate it from a late-comer, Stacey. He might not call it, but I will. We return you now to your regular argument, already in progress. Over to you, Spinner. ;]

It was not my intention to slam Kev and I hope he doesn't take it that way.If he did I am sorry Kev. He was part of the team when the decussions were made on this issue. He knows why it was shut down and it had nothing to do with him. He was a great Mod and we miss him. SndCastie

Hmmm..sniff, sigh,..hooo..smell and feel that old attitude..that lost, raw, freedom fighting, uncooked, unwashed, unbashful determination and spirit one can only find left in some of those that were once proud accomplishments among this forum; until other priorities took away the thunder and rustle of worth and value found in such things as substance of membership and inspiration found in 'individual' sources of talent and the ideals of uniqueness and vitality of open thought meant much more than the shallow traffic jam of surfers waiting in line to get noticed or get marketed..

Oh, please excuse me, maybe read too much Shakespear already today and seem to have lost myself in the seriousness of it all for a brief moment there upon reading such depth being posted here.
Back to basics, gotta go paint my nails and do my hair, make the best of another day..lol!!
Wine and cheese..hmmm, gotta pick up both for the weekend, thanks for reminder! Good forum title too..

Message edited on: 05/12/2005 11:09

pushinfaders did a great job, too. :-)

Yes he did and still does :O) SndCastie

My art comes from me, from my soul, from my pain, from my reaction to events in the world and in my personal life. You may not understand that because maybe my art shows a bright fairy or a happy scene. That doesn't mean it came from a happy place inside me. What I have to say in my art goes from the extremes of dark and light. But believe me, as much as I love rosity, and the people here (well, some of them), if rosity were to cease to exist tomorrow, my art would continue. I don't feel like I have long to live, and I expect to be back in hospital soon, so I need to say all I can say before I either go blind or die.

Oh no, that's just awful hun, what an extremely sad post.
Is there no one or anyone that can help you get better from whatever is making you end up this way? Surely there has to be something that can be done for you before something so bad happens!
bonestructure, you keep posting away okay?

I don't think anyone will object to your words and your gallery postings and many of us do look forward to them, and you get better, okay?
See those Doctors, and Specialists if you have to!

Message edited on: 05/12/2005 17:23

No, don't really have anyone to help, wish I did, There's beauracratic crap holding me up, poverty, isolation, lack of anyone to help me with stuff like cleaning and transportation and stuff. I manage to stay alive and keep my sense of humor.

Amazing!! You sure do set an incredible example for everyone else, always remember that no matter what dear! Hey, and we think we have problems?? Look at this marvelous person who still manages to have a sense of humor with all this happening!! I feel ashamed for ever venting about a broken nail or a broken heel or my lizard hairpin falling out, and people have road rage??!! Nevermind the slug that cut you off, be glad you can see and your alive!! You go bonestructure!!! You try and get better, okay, I do wish you well..

Nah, I'm a bad example lol.

If you can keep your sense of humor, you're a good example. Sure puts a lot of the nonsense we spend time arguing about into perspective. Take care, bonestructure.

That's really why I don't argue about this stuff much. I'm not trying to sound all arrogant or stuff, but I look at a lot of these arguments and I'm like jesus people, this is such trivial crap. Or like, I dunno, getting sick affects you. Almost dying affects you. Changes your views about a lot of stuff. I just don't have the time or energy to be mean to people or raise holy hell about stuff much. I still get my shots in, but I'm not as dedicated to it as I used to be. Rather make people laugh. One of my main concerns is what do do with my art and writing when I do die. I don't have anyone to leave it all to that would appreciate and value it and do something with it all. That bothers me a lot. And loneliness is killing me. I desperately need someone to help me clean this disaster area of an apartment too, and help me throw a bunch of stuff away to lighten my load. Help me get a bed that's fit for human occupancy. Get a laptop so I can work when I have to be in bed. I need to write letters to congressmen and stuff so I can receive proper medical treatment, and I hate doin that kinda stuff. I like doing art, writing, watching my movies and making people laugh. That way when I'm gone, when people think of me, at least they'll smile