I would also like to see more dynamic clothing, it's far easier to fit a dynamic outfit to a morphed character than try to fiddle with either finding a confomring outfit with those morphs, or putting them in after the fact.

That looks nice, what outfit is that? bB

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2394087

Acadia, I LOVE dynamic cloth too...I as well wish more merchants would sell items in that form...it's true that you get a more natural, realistic look with them...I know it can be a pain learning the cloth room for some, but PhilC's video tutorial helped me conquer it when I just couldn't figure it out...I wish most of the conforming clothes I have were dynamic :D

I used the poserfashion tutorial. It was missing a critical piece, but randym helped me get that squared away. I don't use dynamic clothing all of the time, but when I do, I dig out the tutorial and follow the steps I learned and it's quite easy. There is a ton of dials and buttons in the cloth room that are totally foreign to me, but luckily for dynamic clothing you don't need to know them all :)

I just got P6 in the mail today and I will be trying dynamic cloth and hair. I also want to try to convert conforming clothing to dynamic, but I'm not sure how. If I like it, I may try Phil' program. Has anyone bought it? Is it good? Thanks. bB

There's a tutorial on changing conforming to dynamic at PhilC's site.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/tut.ez?Form.ViewPages=868

Leigh ... I did retain what you taught me awhile back in another thread :)

Attached Link: http://homepage.mac.com/hisaom1/ImageLabs/TOP.htm

Tips from the readme file:
You should fit Tabi and Zori after cloth simulation. Otherwise the simulation will stop before complete.

I applied them before and didn't have a problem.

I also had sometimes the stop at frame 17 or so but the result of the frames before was ok. May be I played a little bit too much with the fabric settings, I don't know 'cause the mistake wasn't reproduceable. Take it as ist is, may be in Hotfix 5 or 6 it will be fixed ;)

Very pretty picture Acadia :) I always wanted a kimono. And the Japanese site was fabulous. Can someone point to me a tutorial somewhere how to use this kimono please, pretty please. *Clueless hehee Well it's all your fault starting this 'dynamic' thread I had no idea what it was before. Apart from having tried one of Andora's hairstyle's. Anyway, now my poor little Aiko is ready in a pose and the kimono is just there in it's default postion *giggle's

May be i am an exception because when i use it the used cloth rarely fit correctly.So i hate it and didn't use it so often

Hate'em!! They dont work in Daz Studio. Still your renders look great SilverWyvern

Wow. So it's easier to make dynamic clothing than conforming clothing? PhilC says to change comforming clothing to one sided. Huh? Also I've read there need to be "stress" polygons on the diagonal. How do you so that? Does no one have PhilC's dynamic Clothing Creator? It looks like it uses displacement maps, am I correct in that guess? And lastly, where can I find info on dynamic hair, and converting to dynamic hair. Why would one convert confrming hair (hair props) into dynamic hair, isn't that impossible? Dynamic hair is guide hair, not a mesh, right? Or do you mean "clothifing" hair? One tutoral I looked at said go to frame 15. If the animation stops at 17, perhaps you should switch from 30 frames to 15? bB <-- who doesn't understand why one would animate clothing to make it fit.

Yes, Clothifying a conforming hair object. its not as hard as it sounds, load the hair, put V3 in zero pose, set the hair using associated morphs so that no hair "strands" and touching her body, export as object, re-import as object. load into cloth room, then run a simulation with no collisition objects set, do the whole 30 frames. now the hardest part. click on "constrained group" and move through the frames until you find a nice one where each strand or strip of hair has fallen away from the scalp section, highlight all vertices on the skullcap object and highlight all the vertices at the end of each hair strip. probably made no sense, but thats how you do it! the most successful way to setup a scene for dynamic cloth is to have frame 1 at zero pose, and then frame 15 (I use 20 myself, but any frame around this area will do) in a 30 frame animation will have the final pose you want the character to be in, this then leaves a further 10-15 frames for the cloth to "settle" for complex poses (such as lying down) I use 100 frame animation, and set the final pose at around 30 instead of 20.

You can find more conforming clothing here, along with a tutorial on how to use it: http://www.poserfashion.net/downloadp5.htm There is a crutial part missing from the tutorial though, so you might want to have a look at this thread where I was getting help with that tutorial. http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2220912&Reply=2222342#17

Poserfashion suggests a 60 frame animation with the pose applied at frame 30. That's what I did with the above one. I haven't tried any other way, because this one seems to work very well and I like the end appearance.

Hate them, they always seem to get me in trouble, never seem to get it right. To much time involved to get them fit. I really do prefer conforming clothes, not perfect, but much easier and less work involved.

Love'em! Not only are they much easier to use, especially on morphed figures, they're also easier to build. No need to make morphs in them, and no need to rig them and twiddle their joint parameters. But the're not the end-all solution for everything. Conforming is best for (semi-)rigid parts, such as belts and shoes, dynamic is best for loose flowing cloth. I'm working on "hybrids", conforming clothes with dynamic parts. My first tests look very promising.

I agree with svdl, for tight clothing conforming is probably better, but for loose clothing dynamic rocks. For tight clothing which only attaches to a single figure-group (for some strange reason panties come to mind..), they're probably best done as smart props, unless someone can convince me otherwise. Conforming clothing has the advantage of being (mostly) quick'n'easy, especially if you are using it on the figure it was intended for, with minimal morphs (for those on a tight-schedule...pun semi-intended). However, if you want to fit clothing on a well-morphed figure, or on a figure with an extreme pose (within limits) or on another figure altogether, or any loose/flowing cloth (which conforming can rarely deal with even semi-realistically) then IMHO dynamic is the way to go. Once you learn HOW to use the cloth room (I've been using it for well over a year now, and am still learning..) you'll probably come to love it.. Cheers, Diolma

Dynamic cloyhing is great, and I love svdl's dynamic clothing. They are elegant and beautiful. I'm really curious to see how his "hybrids" experiment go.

I love what they do but I hate trying to get them to work on any figure they're not made for! You never can tell where a butt is poking through double layered items like that Kimono and Furisoto from Poser Club Japan. I've had minimal success getting the Kimono on Jessi but none whatsoever on the Furisoto, which is really really sad because I like it better. I was hoping Miki's would be an easy conversion but noooooo.

Message edited on: 09/02/2005 16:24

Mizrael, this kimono was incredibly easy to do in the cloth room. I can't believe I just said something in Poser was easy, LOL, but it really was.

If you have MSN or ICQ, I can walk you through what I did; 9 steps from start to finish. I had no poke throughs for Aiko and her kimono.

So many have helped me with so many things, so if I'm able to help someone back, I'd really like to pay it forward :)

Message edited on: 09/02/2005 17:11

Quote - "hybrids", conforming clothes with dynamic parts. My first tests look very promising.

Ohhhh! That's sounds intriguing. Conforming as it's advantages, but I find it so hard to fit around figures that aren't standing nearly poker straight. I have come to the conclusion that I never will be able to fit clothing to sitting or odd poses unless it's the clothing is painted on in the figures texture. However, with dynamic cloth, I have high hopes. I've had high success with sitting and kneeling and poses where a knee is bent etc unlike with conforming clothing where most of my figures are standing, unless there is a "sit skirt" feature in the item.

You do know that you can turn body parts invisable to eliminate a lot of poke through. No need to have legs visable when covered in pants or long skirt.

Magnets are very usful to help with areas that can't be turned invisable.

Message edited on: 09/02/2005 17:34

Turning body parts invisible doesn't solve dynamic poke through. The cloth can not intersect with the body or it throws off the draping and simulations whether the body part is visible or not when the simulation is set to cloide and drape over the body. The Clothing article should have room between itself and the figure before you run the simulations or the calculations either crap out or run way past the frame counts you've set until they run out of memory and again crap out. My problem is in trying to use dynamic clothing made for V3 on Jessi and their default Zero poses aren't the same so getting the clothing settled over Jessi takes a lot of finesse to keep the clothing from touching her body while still being free to drape.

Have you tried the tutorial at PoserFashion.net? Basically, you scale the figure smaller at the first frame, and then let her "grow" into the clothing.

Wardrobe Wizard is another possibility. I would think it would work with dynamic clothing, too.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=630244

Message edited on: 09/02/2005 18:49

Mizrael. Maybe you should have read post 32 and you would not have felt the need to correct me. I'm sure I read this there, "Conforming as it's advantages, but I find it so hard to fit around figures that aren't standing nearly poker straight."

Getting dynamic clothing to fit on a figure that it's not designed for can be quite difficult. But it usually can be done without too much trouble, since you can scale/morph/pose body parts of the figure to any proportions needed, and then let the figure "grow" into the cloth. The problems come with constrained and choreographed groups. If the dynamic cloth is built of one contiguous mesh, a solution is to turn the constrained group into a new dynamic group with high friction and high fold/shear resistance. That's why I try to build dynamic cloth without constrained or choreographed groups. Getting conforming cloth to fit a figure that it is not designed for is far more difficult and time-consuming than fitting dynamic cloth.

I shoulda said - that is svdl's free evening dress, on all three figures in post #36. :)

Don't like dynamic cloth at all. It's unrealistic without any edging. Real clothing has hems and seams and dynamic cloth does not allow for these. My conforming clothing fits the figures it's intended for, regardless of movement (provided you use the 'Use Limits' option), has realistically designed edging, and these days contains all FBM to match the figure.

Xena - most dynamic cloth doesn't have edgings or seams, you're right about that. But my newest ones do. ramhernan found out how to model them so that they work in the cloth room (thanks Ramon!).

Message edited on: 09/02/2005 19:54

couldnt you just model said parts onto the mesh, group them in your modelling application, then set said group to either a soft decoration, or a correographed (sp??) group? this is done with the likes of buttons and such all the time, so why not with more comples mesh structures? how about creating a double sided dress for instance, and have the inside mesh of the dress choreographed, and the outside dynamic? therefore giving thick clothing to the dynamic room

templargfx: modeling seams and edges and assigning them to the soft decorated group is exactly the way it can be done. The main problem was the layout of the mesh in the modeling app. It appears that vertices of the soft decorated edge must coincide with vertices of the dynamic parts. And self-intersecting meshes are a big no-no.

I believe chorreographed vertices are excluded from self collision calculations, perhaps that would be the way chorreographed is the follow the clotch group and constrained is follow the object its clothifying over right?

Ok svdl, you've got my attention ;) Can you point me in the right direction to find out how to do it? Pretty please :D Doublesided mesh would be no good, as the poly count would go through the roof. As I understand it, dynamic stuff requires a fairly high count anyway to get a realistic smoothness to folds/wrinkles/etc.

Choreographed vertices follow keyframed animation - they're not included in the cloth dynamics calculations. So if you animate a prop before (or after, doesn't really matter) setting up a cloth simulation, the vertices you assign to the choreographed group will move as directed by the keyframed animation. I've used choreographed vertices for scenes where a character plucks the hem of her dress. I moved/scaled/rotated the complete dress in frame 20 until the two vertices that I designated as choreographed were at the exact location I wanted them. Then I calculated the simulation - the plucked part of the hem neatly moved to the location where I wanted it, the rest follwed neatly. Constrrained groups follow the closest polygon of the objects they're set to collide with.

CL need to hire you to write there dynamic cloth explainations, because I swear that is not what the manual implies LOL, but of course, the manual is the worst ever written, so its no suprise

A good tailor (points to me), can sew a dress without having visible hems (invisible hems are the only type I ever put on things I make) and edgings, and believe it or not, there are ways to hid the seams as well :) Dynamic cloth is very realistic in that regard.

@Xena: I use 3DS Max for my modeling work, I'll use 3DS terminology (don't know how other modeling apps call these things). First I make the dynamic cloth as a single sided mesh - no 8edges or seams. For thick edges, I select the outer edges of the mesh, create a spline out of those edges (linear interpolation), and then loft a rounded rectangle along that spline. The trick is that the pivot point of the rounded rectangle should be on one of the short sides, instead of dead center. I twiddle with the loft parameters to make the edge look good everywhere - and make sure it doesn't intersect with the figure anywhere. Then I collapse it to a mesh, assign a new material to the mesh and attach it to the single sided dynamic cloth mesh. I weld the vertices, so that no open edges are left. Then I select all edge polygons (by material) and detach them to a separate mesh. For seams: I select the polygons that should become seams, detach them as a copy and extrude/bevel them. Export as .obj, rotate and scale using Objaction Scaler (thanks MAZ!) and import into Poser using "Weld Identical Vertices" The seam and edge groups are assigned to soft decorated. Works pretty well, though calculations are naturally slower than with "un-edged" dynamic clothes. As soon as I've made a nice looking set of clothes using this technique I'll upload them to freestuff.

Things like buttons and buckles are what the "Hard decorated" group is meant for.

Now there is Python access to the Cloth Simulator (in P6), scripts can be used to set up vertex groups (based on material zones), that would be awkward to impossible using only the Group Editor.
Doing the simulation setup with scripts would also make for a smaller distribution package.