Yes, this is a complaint !!!! And it is meant very serious. The only reason why I post this here in the "normal" forum is that it is simply read by more people - I know that not everyone of you is reading the complaints forum but this is especially for those people too. First: As I'm browsing through the Fora these days I feel more than a little bit frightened. Every Forum seems pushing it's store in a way I can't understand at all - what about all those people who are and who had given avay their stuff for free (Traveller, Rena, Steve Shanks, John West, The Poser Factory). ARE THEY SIMPLY FORGOTTEN ?? - Is it only important to say: Hey, this and that person has put this and that item new in the store. What about all the new Poser-users - aren't they have the right to know where to find some stuff for free ?? - Not all free stuff is bad stuff but I've seen some stuff for selling that is not that worthy as it is prized ... Second: Please don't understand me wrong ... I'm not complaining about people who has done so much for the community and trying to catch some money by selling this and that - for example Sharkey: He has made many free items and then decided to sell this and that - or PhilC who gives away recently a very good prop, clothes or another thing ... or just me (I've sold a lot of poses to Forge and I really thank them for buying some stuff of mine). You can add many many names to that list also (Edriver, Nerd, Dreamspinner, ...) Third: I'm complaining about people who are only coming to this place to sell their stuff and (sorry your moderators at this Forum - but these are only my thoughts) it seems the Fora are helping them in many ways ... Forth: And please don't get this wrong also ... of course you could say - better a buyable thing than no thing but there should be something like a quality-control at this place ... Fifth: I've seen there are less and less free stuff in the free section these days - I know some people of you don't think so - and they probably will tell me now "you forgot the external free props on all the homepages" - but let me tell you some of them are loosing their faith in the Poser-community. Sixth: Do something to help them ... don't complain about slow connections or don't say "your f***ing d/l don't work" - try to help them (btw: thx to you 'Questor' for your offer) by offering some webspace (thx to you Rena, Steve and Allen) for keeping their work up. Seventh and last: At the moment I'm thinking Poser is loosing it's spirit a little bit. We once started by exchanging our knowledge and talents - but at the moment it seems we're only starting doing this by exchanging money too - of course you can say that this is "OK" - but if this will be the main opinion of the Fora then let me say "WITHOUT ME !!" - then I'll find other ways to give away my stuff to people who are thankfull for doing this. There is no need in saying thank you again and again - but a simple credit at an image (I know most of you do) when using someones stuff would really help a lot. And one final thought for all the rest of you who are only thinking of making money: "Where do you think you are, without all those people who are so generously giving away their knowledge and their stuff (believe me, it has taken them a lot of time ...) ?" think about this before starting to think about the quick moneymaking ... Please give me some answeres to these points - am I wrong ?? - going crazy or just to sensible ?? Schlabber

In this place, yes, you are wrong. Sorry, Edgnet, Jack and all the others have made it clear that the more popular something is the harder it is to keep it free. Hey, the bandwidth costs they tell us. So if we want to keep coming here then we'd better buy and sell. I suppose that's what we'll be doing at Poserworld too pretty soon since the bandwidth there is causing problems in downloading. Someone just wrote to John (Malis, that is) today asking him why he doesn't just sell his characters instead of giving them for free. I guess this would drive bandwidth down since there will be fewer buyers than people who download free items. Hey! Now that's an idea Edgenet. Get rid of all the free stuff and you won't have to deal with that much traffic driving up your bandwidth costs :) As for the money and exchange, well if you sell things to make money to buy things (for Poser that is) then the only ones making a profit are the money managers :) Hmmmm maybe I should just become a broker, Hey anybody want me to sell something for them? Oh, and by the way, the data base and ready-to-buy clientele had already gathered here because of the free stuff. Nowhere else can you open up shop in the middle of customers, usually you have to wait for them to find you!

Hi schlabber ! I just wanted to reply so you know pep are listining. I have put a few items 4 in the store from 5 to 14> I am only selling for a few reasons none are to get rich lol;) the reason i started putting things in the store is i gave away 3 characters i worked extremly long hours on and a few props however out of 3600 downloads (give or take) total i have recieved only avout 8 emails from people :( thats not why i posted but feedback makes me better! Finding people to host for me has been a major pain they say they will when actually it never happens and i tell people to go to a site to dwnld and theres nothing there so my solution was to price things as cheap as i could and still have a little to get better software and buy my own bandwith for freestuff thankfully to an awesome customer base i m getting closer to establishing these goals and now i have made several textures and frebbies that im e mailing those people later this week when i get high speed access I think one of the things is alot of people are selling to be able to buy other peoples products and what i see is scary is the prices seem to be soaring and i too belive the success of poser os to be credited to the people you mentioned also just about any body that takes the time to throw an email my way gets something from me wheter they ask or not ive met nothing but great peole here and am thankful for them all I hope you dont think im arguing anything with you just wanted to shed lite on my own personal reasons for selling in the store like i said for the most part i agree 100 percent with you but it is good that we do have the store or else this site would go away in a heart beat i think if you sell you should give a little back and if you have resources offer them with resposibility ex webspace and maybe throw an e mail to the frebbie giver it doesnt have to say thanks just give 2 cent TRAV

I sincerely want to thank you for the Poses you have for free. I also wish to thank all the others who have donated their time and efforts to provide quality free items to the Poser community. Just an appreciative thought. Poppi

Hi guys, I haven't been here in a while but figured I'd get my .02 in. I do notice more and more "for sale" items at Renderosity. I don't mind it because it's a central place where new artists can at least start to offer their products and compare the quality of what they're doing to what everyone else is offering. If I'm looking for something for Poser I come here first (and it's usually where I find it or at least a link to it). I appreciate the free stuff but this is real life and people have to eat. If they can earn some money doing something they like to do I'm all for it. Movida

I think that this site alone take 50% (please correct me if I am wrong) on all sales. I already debate this issue some days ago. I do not want to restart it because I found that some people were not polite in their answers and even attacking me instead of the tread.

I'm just wondering. I see people spending money buying models, textures and props to end up doing a picture of a nude woman (awfully posed ) or, in the better rendering of their lives, a face close up. So , how much really the artists need to buy things to improve their hobby (after all). And how many worth to look pictures we see in the gallery any more. Just to make a picture that will end up among a bunch of commercial renderings...Just wondering.

I don't mind the stuff for sale, I just mind that a lot of stuff gets through lately that has no support. So I will not be buying from the store for a while. They will soon find out that people will not buy from the store here if the quality doesn't match the price. Marque

I'd just like to say that I agree with you Schlabber, and was actually thinking of posting something similar last week...just decided against it so as not to cause a flame war. You're not crazy. :) I really have to echo what you said about people complaining about broken downloads or slow connections though. I have DSL and I still get about 300 bytes/sec when downloading from your site - but I continue to do it because your work is not only of very good quality, but free. I don't blame the people who moan about everything going to the store these days, but don't whine about stuff being temporarily down or slow...they should be happy that it's free. Also wanted to add that Questor is indeed a very generous person and I appreciate his help in hosting some files of mine as well. I don't know if this has been suggested before, or if it's even possible, but would it help if we could leave comments on store items like we do on gallery images? We can do that on 3D Commune freestuff, and it's encouraging to both read and receive user comments on downloadable items. Just a thought. ...and just my opinion as always. Take care. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

I agree also. It's the main reason I don't often come here anymore. To many images telling you this is now in the store. People coming here just to sell, and nothing else. This isn't the community I joined a year ago...

Some of us, like Jon above, just learn to look past the "For sale" ads, and just continue on with what we're here for- Enjoyment of a cool program. See here- Link to another thread

Well then, let me add my thanks to everybody who is willing to donate their products for free, be it here or on other ebsites. So much labor and love goes into designing things, and it's a wonder anybody would just give them away! So Poserworld/Fairywoods (who make up about 80% of my collection) and Schlabber (99% of all my poses, grin), Sharkey, Ghastley, Nerd, Jon Malis (got all your models), all the free morphs, the Eves... Too many to mention... but you have my thanks. I could never afford to buy models and would be stuck with default Poser if it wasn't for you. Please don't abandon the poorer percentage of your fans just because of this!

Enter The Pacifist! Glad to see this come up on the forum, and most happy to see it has not caused a flame war to date. I agree with much I have read here. Being a newbie who hasn't done a lot with the program yet except hang around the pros, reading, d/loading, etc., maybe I don't know what I am talking about. As I progress with learning Poser I may buy some stuff, but right now I find plenty of free stuff that is worthwhile while learning. I do find a lot in the stores that I would like to have, but feel that some of it is a bit pricey compared to some of the free stuff. I am not begrudging anyone making some money for their efforts and hard work, but sales would probably increase on a price structure which would allow more Poser addicts to buy, producing more income on volume sales. If ever I become proficient enough in this craft to offer something of value I will give it freely....just as a gesture to the community for all of the friendly advice and help that it offers to all Poser users. I will do this even if I have to set up a website to store the goodies....because the Poser Community as a whole is a 'user-friendly' group.

The 3D Comic Collective... All Free No Store The BEST Contest Prizes available! Did you know that we are giving away a full version of Deep Paint 3D with Texture Weapons? Schlabber... I couldnt agree more... but what Renderosity does with it's site is their business... I still stop by to communicate with the Poser Comic fans out there. And snag the occasional great free prop! Keep up the great work! Doug

Love your work, Schlabber. Love to download it for free too! The NASDAQ crash of HiTech dot coms has got to tinkle down to include fewer free or almost free internet services. Someone has to pay for the bandwidth, and that someone is us. The demand for Poser related stuff has grown dramatically as has the quality of what is produced. That's called DEMAND as in Supply and Demand. Sound marketing calls for freebies to strut your stuff and create a damand for your individual products or your services. Renderosity has served this well. I personally appreciate an artist announcing a new product for sale. I'm in the market for selected stuff. This place, as a market keeps quality up and prices down. You want a ripoff - try a VIP membership at 3D Cafe

I'd just like to say a word for Renderosity. I'm a longtime lurker here. I've never posted a pic and never bought anything from the store. I have downloaded numerous freebies, for which I am greatful. But there's a lot more here that is free than just the freestuff: Namely, advice, assistance, and inspiration, all of which are worth a lot more than the models and textures. I'm glad people have a place to sell, and I'm glad they can make some money doing what they love doing. In fact, I hopr to join their ranks in the not too distant future. It's also my plan to continue to give back some of the time and talent that has been given freely to me, in the form of sharing my insights, experience and some of my models and work when I can. I'd like to think that most of the people who come here feel the same way, and that free giving won't die out just because some items -- which were hard work and high talent -- are sold at a price to compensate for the toil and care of their makers. The market itself will prove which models are worthiest. If everyone here were to approach this site in a similar way, I don't think there'd be any issue here. --

found a reliable way to give away something for free please go to the poaer gallery under hey you guys heading if i get as little as 2 thank you or whats ups ill try to do a high detailed head or body tecture each month my stuff isnt the greatest but it is usually different lots of love to the community TRAV travisbourbeau@prodigy.net give me 10 minutes

I agree also. And by this way thanks a million to all artists, who give us all the nice freestuff ( esp. Schlabber for his great Poses, J. Mallis for his excellent characters and all the others too.

Hello Nothing can be completely free and I understand it. I bought about 80 items only here at the store and for most of them I am happy with them. The artists here and in many other great sites are doing a fantastic job and I am not ready to wait for free stuff even if they are great also to get something that if I do not pay I will not get it. I did a post on that and got shit answers by some members. Even the moderators or the store were not positive to that issue (they make 50% on sale). Like someone posted in 3D commune, a community share with their members and when you are a store then you are a store.Look at Zygote/DAZ3D, they have a refund policy that If I am not satisfy with a product I will get a refund. Here NOTHING. The bad afro-hair by CONFUSIUS was found very bad by the community but nothing happen to refund the community. Are we talking about a community if the store take the side of the artist and us we have to leave with a bad product that will never be used. The items at the store need to be quality control because in many items the quality is not there.

The trends here are interesting. I have been reading the Poser forum on a daily basis for approximately five months, and monitoring both the store and freestuff too. It used to be that an artist could specialize in just one thing -- texturing, for example, and sell a simple package for a very reasonable price. (I was shocked when I looked back at my buying history and saw that I had purchased Byte Me Ok's Rayme texture for something like $10.95.) Now most packages are bigger and include a lot of little extras, and the price is higher by far ($25-$30). I haven't really come up with an opinion on whether this is good or bad. There are pros and cons to it. But I do think that volume sales will suffer from the higher pricing. When an item is under $15, I think more people succumb to impulse buying. But, especially with the "No Refund" policy of the store, most hobbyists will think twice before spending $30 on something (especially if they have not been able to evaluate the artist's work before via free items.) Maybe the solution is to "break up" the packages into smaller modules, allowing people to buy the parts they want. I, for one, would be very glad to buy a collection of just lighting sets and cameras. I think the biggest challenge a newbie faces is with those two items. As I said, I can see both sides of the argument, and this posting is just my observation. In the main, I agree with Schlabber. I especially get angry when I see a picture in the gallery with no credits listed for the items used in the image. It gets even more upsetting when the items are from freestuff. At least acknowledge the generosity of fine artists who willingly share their work with those of us still learning! Best wishes to all. And Schlabber, many many thanks for your wonderful poses!

This is just an example of what has been bugging me about the store. I understand the no refund policy but just be friggin honest! The hair that I bought for $30 is worthless from the front and so worthless in an animation I was planning to do with it. There hasn't been anyone yet (to my knowledge) who has been able to do a full front render with the hair and make it look normal. Whoever did the renders for the store pictures must have known this as there are no frontal shots of the hair and they STILL sold it...knowing this! That's why I'm upset. I know that artists have to make money to continue to create, that's a fact of life, and if I see something I like I don't mind paying for it. But I intensely dislike being lied to...and I feel that I was lied to. No support has come from the artist, other than a list of tips he sent to someone else, and his answer for the strands in the front was for her to morph them. Give me a break here! I agree with you Schlabber, and I also have my own grief with this place lately. If I get banned for stating the truth then so be it. I tried to go to the store contact, and got no results. So I won't bother with it anymore other thatn to figure out how to fix it myself and NEVER buy from here again. Marque

Marque's post is (to me anyway) a different story. If an item is unusable to ANYONE, that person should get a refund. $30 isn't play money and she (and anyone else who bought it and can't use it) should be refunded their money. Did the artist not want to accept responsibility and fix it? Movida

The artist obviously knows there is a problem. He actually told another user to create morphs for the bad strands. The store knows there is a problem. If it were my store I would make the artist pull the item until it's fixed properly, and then give the owners an update that will fix it. This would show responsiblity...instead of saying gee, you're a grownup, if you don't like it too bad. Sorry, but that's the feeling I get from the store now, and it's not worth it for me to fight with them over $30, I have better things to do with my time. They know how much money I have spent here, and how much more they stand to lose if I buy elsewhere. Marque

Number 1: Without the store this site would disappear, no forums, no galleries, no FreeStuff. Number 2: When you purchase an item through the store you are buying from the Artist, not Renderosity. Number 3: This thread has nothing to do with Poser and will be moved to C&D shortly. -JH.

Hi Folks! I'm gonna weigh in on this -- very carefully. Maybe what is needed is a special forum or area where prospective buyers can read reviews of the products in the store before buying them--sort of like the ratings system a lot of computer and 3D magazines use to discuss new products and upgrades. I paid a lot of attention to the reviews in MacWeek and MacUser before I went out and bought software. And I still read them in MacWorld. I have never been dissatisfied with a product I bought as a result of those reviews. The other thing for me is a matter of personal preference and comfort. I always buy software products by phone. I do it with Zygote/DAZ and it's particularly the reason why I like BBay, because when I'm on the phone with Sherry (not deliberately trying to plug an online store competitor but she is good people), I know I'll get courteous treatment and good service. I don't know if the Renderosity Store has a direct phone line with a live Customer Service person, but maybe that kind of feature can address some of the concerns raised in this thread--especially about unusable and expensive items. As far as all the banners and announcements about stuff in the store: I just treat them like another credit card solicitation. If I'm interested I'll check it out before I commit to buy. If I'm not I'll move on. Peter (Dr Zik)

Number 1: I have no complaints about the store being here, only that it be more responsible about what it has in stock. Number 2: Then there is no way to ever get all your money back because that would mean the artist would have to refund the 50% that the store received from the sale. Marque

Hi Folks! Marque makes some good points--and they need to be addressed by someone from the store. I think a lot of us will probably refrain from any purchases until they are. Peter (Dr Zik)

Ok so here is my report last night i posted above that to many times when posting free stuff you dont get any response at all that one reason ive started selling things last night i posted a free head texture in the gallery (special thanks to bloodsong brandi and tammy )these were the only people that said thanks or any thing else not that , that was the reason for posting but out of 98 people only three made an attempt at giving any input back it doesnt bother me as much but i know a few people that have given away items or have gone to the store becuase they give things away and never see a post or email or are given any props! Personally if you e mail me ill try my best to help you or make textures etc for you for free and they are free for comercial use and you dont have to give me any credit whatsoever but an e mail once in a while will do wonders for all of us that give away stuff the other thing is if you do have a problem with some ones store items then you should contact that person if they dont fix it it should be removed but the way things are now it seems that anybody that post to the store is bieng targeted i have had many people purchase from me and for the msjority they have bought from me again i have had one complaint in which i responded immidiatly and it was due to a pro pack backwards compatability issue i even offered to refund the full purchase price but that person is extremely cool and it is bieng taken care of and that person is happy i totally understand whaere marque is coming from if shes not happy and i was the artist the check wuld be in the mail peace everyone TRAV

i try to do art cause i cant type :) or spell lol

Off Poser-Store Subject/On Free Subject: Talk about ripoffs, it is now official that the US Postal Service has a bill asking to be able to charge 5-cents per email on the Internet. This means everything, the spam, unsolicited newsletters, etc...and they will be providing no services. The theory is to make up for lost revenue incurred by people using email instead of letters. Now here is an issue worth flaming the US Government over. It is Bill 602P and everyone is encouraged to look into this and email [while it is free], or buy a damn stamp from the P.O. and write your congressmen flaming this bill.

Attached Link: http://orbizart.tripod.com

There is no such bill...lol You got bit, but then so did I .. I looked it up. 8^) You can check it out at the url below. Marque http://urbanlegends.about.com/science/urbanlegends/library/blemtax2.htm Bill 602P - U.S. Postal Tax on Email Originally posted: 05/22/99 Here's an item straight out of the hoax recycling bin. A "new" email forward claims that the U.S. Postal Service wants to levy a 5-cent federal surcharge on every email delivered within the United States. Far from being new, however, this message has been zipping from modem to modem since May 1999. A virtually identical message circulating one month earlier claimed that exactly the same thing was happening in Canada. False, in both cases (see comments below). Subject: E-MAIL SURCHARGE Dear Internet Subscriber: Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online and continue using email: The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of the Internet. Under proposed legislation the U.S. Postal Service will be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees". Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is nothing like a letter". Since the average citizen received about 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the U.S. Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet is democracy and non-interference. If the federal government is permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a surcharge to email, who knows where it will end. You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureacratic efficiency. It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from New York to Buffalo. If the U.S. Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. One congressman, Tony Schnell (r) has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the government's proposed email charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story, the only exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of email surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" March 6th 1999 Editorial) Don't sit by and watch your freedoms erode away! Send this email to all Americans on your list and tell your friends and relatives to write to their congressman and say "No!" to Bill 602P. Kate Turner Assistant to Richard Stepp, Berger, Stepp and Gorman Attorneys at Law 216 Concorde Street, Vienna, Va. Comments: Compare the above to the Canadian version of April 1999. It's essentially the same message. Some copycat prankster merely localized the original for U.S. consumption by replacing Canadian references with United States equivalents. No points for cleverness or originality there. Here's an excerpt from the U.S. Postal Service's published response: A completely false rumor concerning the U.S. Postal Service is being circulated over the Internet via e-mail. The e-mail message claims that a "Congressman Schnell" has introduced "Bill 602P" to allow the federal government to impose a 5-cent surcharge on each e-mail message delivered over the Internet. The money would be collected by Internet Service Providers and then turned over to the Postal Service. No such proposed legislation exists. In fact, no "Congressman Schnell" exists. Media Sightings US Postal Service: 'Email rumor completely untrue' The Washingtonian: 'Email hoax' CNET News.com: 'Email hoax clutters lawmakers' inboxes' Roy Betts, manager of media relations for the Postal Service, put it more bluntly in person: "It's obviously a hoax." Er... evidently not so obviously to those who keep forwarding the rumor to everyone they know. Those tempted to believe this nonsense should visit the Library of Congress Website and search House bills for "Bill 602P" (hint: that's not even how House bills are numbered). Or examine the List of Representatives for a "Congressman Tony Schnell." You won't find them, because they don't exist. Moreover, more than one bonafide member of Congress has issued a statement decrying the "Internet tax" as a hoax. The Washingtonian, accused in the email of publishing an editorial in support of the tax proposal, has also issued a disavowal. Rumors of rate hikes or surcharges for Internet access, no matter how preposterous, never fail to generate hysteria among rank and file users. Witness the furor over the similar modem tax legend of a decade ago, or the more recent per-minute access charge rumors that have swamped the FCC's offices with protests in recent years. Updates: Protests Result in Congressional Action - Ironically, the U.S. House of Representatives, reacting to calls, letters and emails protesting the nonexistent "Bill 602P" over the past year, passed a real bill in May 2000 prohibiting such a tax from ever being enacted. See "House Outlaws an Urban Legend" from the Industry Standard, May 17, 2000. 'Bill 602P' Dupes Debaters in N.Y. Senate Race - Clinton and Lazio unknowingly debated the nonexistent proposal on October 8, 2000. (If it's any consolation, they're both against it.) See "Email Tax Hoax Fouls N.Y. Senate Debate." Current Netlore Urban Legends Archive Email this page! Sponsored Links Find Books About Urban Legends and Folklore at Half.com Free $5 on your first purchase and Get up to 50-90% off everyday! Buy and Sell previously owned Books, CDs, DVDs, Movies and Video Games. http://www.half.com/ (Listing fee: $0.28) Crimes of Persuasion: Schemes, scams, frauds. How con artists will steal your savings and inheritance through telemarketing fraud, investment schemes and consumer and business scams. http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/ (Listing fee: $0.01) Need A Laugh? The Jokes Are Always On Us!!! A large selection of jokes/cartoons, - one- liners, comical recipes, fun photos, funny poetry, letters, funny/true stories, urban legends, and more! http://www.tech-sol.net/ (Listing fee: $0.01) This is True by Randy Cassingham Weird-but-TRUE news items e-mailed weekly for free. Online since 1994. http://www.thisistrue.com/ (Listing fee: $0.01) Buy a Link Now!

I BELIEVE that the USPS has a "digital postmark" system where you can use their service to forward a partially encrypted message to anyone who has e-mail or voicemail and THAT service is something like $0.05 per MB or something like that. Or they are working on it. This program is probabl the basis for this urban legend. Coupled with the bill that the telecommunications companies are (allegedly) trying to get passed that would charge a usage fee (something like $0.023/hour, from what I remember) for anyone using the Internet (allegedly the exact same bill that triggered Clinton to pass a moritorium on internet taxes!), you have a convincing hoax (probably a PAIR of hoaxes) with a VERY slight basis in fact.

It was good for a chuckle though...lol Marque

Glad to find out is a bunch of bullshit...believe it or not, but the email I received was a forward from a friend who works for the Post Office! I am going to forward the info on the real story as posted on a graphics group forum...Irony?? Thanks for the info. {Being a former government employee made it totally believeable to me!!)

The only change at Poserworld money wise will be Rena and I plodding along with more CD's, the bandwidth problem is simply because we have purchased our own server and all the harware isn't fitted yet.....1st April should see everything back to normal :o)...........Steve

Uh Oh...April Fool's day! lol Marque

Glad to hear Poserworld will eventually get back to normal. I downloaded a few things last night....Every single file was an unexpected end of transfer. But, hey...I will be back this evening. Beats sitting here just watching my machine render. (I blame AOL on the bad d/lds, anyway.) I think I may just need a life.

Steve Shanks and Rena, only TWO of the many, many wonderful, looong term IDOLS of poserdom, there are many!! I can think of a great number of you, since I have been on the forums a long time, but in comparisons to the member numbers of all the great sites all around, from here, to the Poser Forum to the 3DCommune, to Renderotica, to even those HUGE databases of newsgroups galore, if you add all these together there are really only a very FEW that stand out as the cream of the crop statistically! These are people that gave looong before they ever sold, they put their hearts and their souls into everything and anything to do with poser so that you and I and everyone here can do soooo much more with what very little poser started us off with. And it is not always JUST the characters and the props, or the morphs or the textures or the tutorials, those are the skeletal make up by which we all have sooo much to enjoy this vocation or commercial vitality with, but as well it is also the artwork that has been shared by extremely talented masters that have come and gone or are still here yet even today, to give us unending inspiration and hope and, last, but certainly not least is the unending gift of all those folks that have enriched all of us for such a long time with knowledge, answers to questions, new possibilties, spent time to freely help us to grasp and learn and feel the essence that is the make up of what is a poser program. It is many times the very same folks that give us all this material wealth that also give us the precious knowledge, both are GOLD to all of us and one is not much good without the other. Yes, we DO have much to be thankful for....to all you great ones, I THANK YOU ALL from my heart and my enriched mind, I could not have done nearly what I can do without any of you, your a blessing and poser would be an almost empty, lifeless program without you, that I do know ;-) Be well.

Marque: Why don't you do this: contact the artist, complain, wait for a response, if there's no response or you're not satisfied with the response file a complaint with the better business bureau. There is also a website www.resellerratings.com which at this point only reviews computer hardware/software related online vendors but you could send them an email and suggest they start including all online vendors and relate your experience to them. You probably won't get any money returned but you'll at least fight back and the artist, knowing of your plans might be persuaded to help. movida

Hi, all Late as usual with my 5 cents' worth, but here goes. I think an important point is being missed here. I remember someone (Darthlogice, I think) posting a thread once, asking if anyone actually USED the things he'd offered in freestuff. D/l'ed by the thousands, but rarely if ever seeen in a pic. Other people have complained (and I sympathize) that they spend countless hours developing some great tex, or prop, or whatever, and see it d/l'ed in droves from freestuff - just to receive an appreciative e-mail or two, if they get any response at all. Freestuff has to be paid for - in RECOGNITION. A thank-you e-mail, a credit in a pic, a "great stuff" in a post - something to make it feel meaningful to make the next item. A select few, like Schlabber, are deservedly famous in the forums. As for the rest - well, they'll remain the unsung heroes. If you're one of them, you may feel that when people actually PAY for your stuff, that's real recognition. It means someone actually thinks your stuff's worth sacrificing their hard-earned brass for. And no, I'm not one the unsung heroes - I never made freestuff, only a few donation items. They sold modestly but they did sell. I've posted a few pics in the galleries (back in the R'osity days), too, and they didn't make me famous (sigh), but they did get an average of a few hundred viewings each (and some heart-warming comments). But guess what felt best? Yep, selling stuff. I didn't get a cent of the money earned, but that didn't matter - what mattered was that a few cents were actually being paid. Anyone can d/l stuff just-in-case - paying for it means you really want it. I know a few people are actually making (or trying to make) a living by selling stuff in the stores. Most other creators' are just making that bit of extra cash, but they could most likely make quite a bit more extra cash by investing their energy and dedication in more profitable activities. So could those who run the forums, no doubt. My point : if you want freestuff, pay for it. In recognition, that is. Give'em a thank-you note, a credit line, a pat on the back in the forums. I always did. All those unsung heroes earned it - we all know some of the freestuff guys are light-years ahead of some of the commercial guys, and even those who aren't are still giving away many, many hours of hard, hard work. The internet is coming of age, and we all have to learn that bandwith and servers aren't free, but there's still plenty of room for amateurs who enjoy the creative process AND enjoy giving away the creative product, if they get new creative impulses - and a few cheers ;-) - in return. That goes ditto for those who run the forums - they may be after money, or they may not, but they need money to keep the forums there. I've done my bit in the battles in and among the forums, but I've reverted to neutrality, as it feels silly to fight it out, when everybody will do as they please, anyway. All one can really do is appreciate the hard work done by each and everyone. In the long run I think that's what will keep freestuff (in the broadest possible sense) strong. Another smoking keyboard, I'll sign off. Thanx for your time. Cheers, thip

coo; comemts thip;)

Marque, I just came across this thread and understand your concerns. I have asked our folks to review our store policies dealing with situations such as your hair purchase. You should be hearing from them tomorrow. Sorry for the bad experience, Tim

Marque and everyone else posting on this thread, Although I am new to the community I work almost daily with the store. Before addressing some of your concerns... First let me say that coming from other online communities outside of the 3D graphic art world, you having something really special in Renderosity. The level of professionalism, skill and caring shared among members is something to be proud of. Now to the issues at hand: 1) Quality of a product. This is a topic that admin and the store contributors have discussed on a regular basis. What is quality? It is a very subjective term and we (at Renderosity) don't want to be in the position of judging "quality". We feel that is up to the Renderosity community. We want the store to be open to all members. Each file is tested to make sure it includes everything promised in the description and that it works. There is a new store statement, as of last night, at http://www.renderosity.com/softgood.ez that covers this and other store information. 2) No refunds. That is not our policy. We do provide refunds. However, we make every effort to make sure that the customer is truly dissatisfied with substantive reasons. Because, unfortunately, there are those out there that have tried to take advantage of the store amd artists. And, we also find that some products are very complicated and while they work fine, the less experienced artists may have some problems. 3) Rating System - There have been active discussions in admin and among the store contributors about a rating system or a review panel of artists to provide feedback on store items. This is a sensitive area and we are trying move forward in a way that gives useful information to our customers and is also fair for the artist. If you have suggestions in this area we would be glad to hear them. 4) Support by Artists - As JeffH pointed out in an earlier posting, the artists do support their own product. The store contributors usually take this very seriously and go above and beyond helping their customers. If you have had a negative experience then please let us know at store@renderosity.com. 5) Product Descriptions. We are also looking at how to better communicate what the products require. As in- is this for an advanced user, are there certain programs you can't run this on, etc... We want to give you as much information as possible to make using the products as user friendly as possible. Let me say I apologize for everyone at the store for not addressing this forum earlier. Had I realized this discussion was going on, would have jumped in sooner. Thanks Tim for the heads up email. I hope I have addressed your concerns regarding the store. If not, let me know :) Please understand that we (Renderosity Store) are here to do everything we can to provide a place where you can get products that are useful and that you are happy with and that we provide our artists with a place to sell their products. It is a work in progress that often comes with growing pains. Part of the reason Renderosity is where it is today is because you, its members, have taken the time to give us feedback, which in turn enables us to improve the community. Don't let that stop. If you have some specific issues we need to be aware of let us know. By emailing store@renderosity.com you will reach the store staff. Or you can always email me yvette@bondware.com. Marque-I hope to hear from you. yvette

Sorry Yvette... I'd been aware of these threads, had I known that you weren't, I would have sent you and Tim an email on them. My bad. ;[

From the Renderosity store 'default' licence: "Like all electronic media, there is no way to give a refund just because you don't like something, there simply is no way to return it. ... However, once Buyer has purchased an item, there is no getting your money back or exchanging the item under any circumstances." Saying 'no redress under any circumstances' does tend to lead people to believe that refunds are not given. I've seen extreme dissatisfaction expressed in the Store Contact forum, but no intervention from store staff is apparent. What does it take to prompt a refund - threat of legal action? On the quality issue, you could drop the philosophical approach ('what is quality; what do we mean by quality?') and adopt the time honoured system of: 'Do we want to lower the value of our store by stocking this rank piece of garbage?'

PJF, There's a misconception here that we're trying to clear up. The "Online Store" is not really a store at all, but a Market-Place for artists to set up their store. Renderosity provides the means for delivery of an artist's product. This includes server space, advertising and order taking. (The name will soon be changed to reflect this.) There is no "stocking" of products and no charge to the artist unless there are sales transactions. -JH.

PJF, you make a good point. Will have a revised license out in 24 hours. Thanks for pointing this out. And, we will also do something about the name shortly :) Agree with Jeff, online store is a little misleading. yvette

Marque, FYI - the artist who's product you've discussed is out of pocket for a week. I would ask that you give them a chance to respond. yvette

The Store here is more of an E-bay style store. A common dumping ground for First class Poser items and some real junk. WHo is to say what is what? They make no claims and it is buyer be ware. Some names have a reputation for first class thing others do not. Renderosity Store is just the meeting place for buyer and seller, no more no less. Karl

vette, FYI the artist was contacted by someone else about the hair and he told her she needs to learn how to morph to fix it. I am talking to Jen in the store about it, as far as I'm concerned the subject is closed with me. I'm not the ONLY one complaining about this hair vette. Marque