Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=22916

In the link I've posted here, the author keeps referring to making cuts and loops, and especially, the 'loop cut' done to the cube.

Also, the reference to 'dropped the mesh into a hypernurbs' in post 3.

In Carrara (5 regular?) terminology, what is going on here?

Do we have all the tools needed to duplicate this process (or some way of our own)?

Message edited on: 02/20/2006 21:44

Attached Link: http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/page1.htm

Take a look at this: http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/page1.htm It is a very well laid out intro on sub-d modeling. Hypernurbs is C4D's flavor of sub-d. Carrara has Sub-Division Surfaces in both the standard and pro versions.(I do not have the standard version) You can make loop selections in standard but I do not think you can cut in new loops with it. There are other ways to do the same thing - it will just not be a single click operation. wayne k guam usa

Just to be clear... I understand that the -process- in Carrara is different and that the -tools- are not 100% the same exact named things. That is not the question. This is a question about the results. How do you get a 'line' to appear around the model, how do you get that box to end up curved, etc... Think results... not a linear mapping of tools, but if these were your screenshots, how would you explain getting them in Carrara? :) So especially, how to do 'A' and 'B' in the image here, in Carrara? :)

I've been to subdivision modelling, but it never uses Carrara terminology, so, none of it really made any sense to me... :)

Ok, but you are cutting yourself short. If you do not have a good grounding in the basics every time you run into an unknown situation or an error you will end up being frustrated, not knowing why something is not working the way you think it should. To do basic smoothing on the skirt: Press Ctrl-A to select all, then look to the right properties tray in the "Selection" section set the "Subdivision Level" for modeling to level 2 and change "none" to "smooth" right above the sds level. To do the tube top Drop a cube into the vm set Delete the top and bottom face Carrara will keep all edges that are creased sharp when you apply smoothing to an object so you need to reset the mode they are in, to do this Select all "Model" pull down menu > smooth edges > all You need an edge going around the middle of the cube so you can squeeze the center inward in a nice arc. Press the "v" key to add vertex - move the mouse close to the center of each of the vertical edges (a little 1/2 will pop up to snap to the center of the edges) of the cube and add a vertex there. The last 2 need to be connected to form a "loop" in the center of the cube. Hit the "G" key > click on the 2 vertex points that need an edge between them. Ctrl-A to select all - enable smoothing and set the level to what you want - the higher the slower the system will be. Click the work view to deselect everything and window select the "loop" you just made in the center section of the now round cube. Press the "S" key to scale the selection and click & drag the yellow box in the middle of the manipulator gizmo to get the shape you want. wayne k guam usa

Here is the scaling of the center loop on the cube whk

You can also use deformers in the Vertex Room which might be useful for roughing out the shape you have in B. Select the vertices you want to deform then go to Model>Deform and select the modifier you want to use. For the benefit of others, you can cut an edge loop in C5 Pro by selecting a loop of edges and then using Model>Extract Along.

Ok, but you are cutting yourself short. If you do not have a good grounding in the basics every time you run into an unknown situation or an error you will end up being frustrated, not knowing why something is not working the way you think it should I know that... which is why it is further frustrating. The 'basics' of that tutorial at subdivision modeling, which I read through in full about a month ago, is nearly 80-100% concepts that do not exist in Carrara. All it did was start me on the path I've been on these past few days, wondering just how these things could be done when I couldn't find any of the things they covered over there at subdivision. Finding the tutorial at Daz was merely the 'last note' in a longer process... when I saw a tutorial that in essense employed the concepts I read at subdivision... and that brought me back to wanting to again know where they were in Carrara. I'm not sure I'm selling myself short by finding subdivision an ill fit for a Carrara user. It seems more like all it can do for a new user is confuse and misdirect them - getting me to think in the wrong paradigm. Half the replies to my present frustration have been 'you're doing this wrong thing for this app, correct your thinking' - which of course, is what I want to do... and if I follow subdivision's method that just won't be possible. But no other path was presented... (noting that I haven't yet read the rest of your message).

arcady, You can probably do this in carrara, but not very efficiently. Carrara really isn't a modeller nor is it promoted as such. Pro is much better, but still going to frustrate someone new.It has modelling tools which is more than most of these renderers can say, especially at this price. Particularly for sub-d. I wouldn't drive myself nutty over it. Go try hex or silo. These will work well w/ carrara. See which one you like more. Hex is more powerful, but silo has displacement which hex won't have till later. Hex should have a carrara bridge coming too which will make it even better for carrara. It already exports car files and works well in other ways.If you want to model don't drive yourself batty spend a few bucks extra and get a good modeller you like.You might want to even try truespace 5 which can be had pretty cheaply.I don't like the old interface (newest one seems much better), but for modelling it might not be bad. Lotta people like it's modelling tools.

Arcady, It is hard for me to tell what you want. You asked how - I said get some background basics. You said - been there, done that - didn't get it. I said - too bad, here is the "how to" info. you asked for. You have replied to the "too bad" part. I figured that you would have replied to the "how to" part if that is what you really wanted to know. "The 'basics' of that tutorial at subdivision modeling, which I read through in full about a month ago, is nearly 80-100% concepts that do not exist in Carrara." If we are talking about the same primer over on subdivisionmodeling, just about all the concepts presented do apply to Carrara. The Standard version of Carrara is missing some of the specific edge tools listed, but that does not mean you can't do what you want to do. Is Carrara Standard the best tool for your modeling needs? Maybe not, but it is not useless. You can learn the basics of polygonal modeling with it. I do not use the vm for modeling but there are users in the Carrara community that have made models that will stand up to anything made in other dedicated modeling applications, using earlier versions of Carrara (c4-c3) that had far fewer tools than Carrara 5 standard has today. I am not going to suggest doing it in something else or upgrading to C5Pro that does not look like what you want to hear. good luck with your 3d quest wayne k guam usa

With every passing day, and with every tute, my admiration for the brilliance of Carrara (5Pro especially), and Hexagon, grows and grows. Everyone should look at those two Carrara made film shorts by Astro Films to know that the only problem with Carrara is with the thinking power of the user not the App!

Arcady etc. I noticed that some still doubt Carrrara's modelling abilities. Well here's the start of a tutorial to make the first item you show, the skirt. I didn't modelling with a Poser character in the scene for extra clarity but if you learn the basic techniques it shouldn't take long to fit it to a poser figure. I post the first half now over the next couple of messages then the second half later to night. mike

Second set.

third set

fourth set as promised

Message edited on: 02/22/2006 20:12

fifth set

sixth set

final set

Trav,
Is that c5pro or standard.Part of the issue is I think alot of people have pro. Arcady is using standard.So people reply w/ what they know.I don't think carrara isn't capable tho of modeling. It is. I have seen some great stuff done w/ the old tools, but I found it frustrating. The new vm is actually intuitive. The thing is you have to decide you want to go the distance or look at other options.As happy as I was w/ the new VM I decided to try hex and said wow this is much easier.You do have to try not to get too emotional tho(it's easy when your frustrated) and wait abit for some help before jumping to conclusions.Look at Maya(tons of power)...lots of people can hardly do a thing w/ it.I think carrara is such an easy app including the new VM, but I don't choose to really model from scratch in it.That's me, if it's w/in my means to do something a better/more efficient way (my def)then I am gonna do that. BTW Dynamic geometry is awesome!

Message edited on: 02/22/2006 20:35

NO problem shere ren mem, I wasn;t intending to single you out. I've seen the same thing said across the boards, not even so much here. I have Hex too and am just the opposite of you, feeling much more compfortable with Carrara's tools. Hex is a bit.. quirky for me. Haven't really looked a the differences between standard an Pro. I know that I could have done the same model (and have done similar) in C4 just a matter of a single slider in the Sud-d menu and a bit different wokr wiht the scale tool. SO I THINK the process should still work. I'll pop over the Eovia and see what tools she might not have. mike

A very quick dress in Hexagon.

Here's one using NURBS in Amapi Pro 7.5.1.

And one thing leads to another. Hexagon Long Dress style 2!

It's ok trav, I didn't feel that way, just wanted to clarify I didn't think it was an all or nothing situation. Having the modeling tools in c5 IS an advantage. That is a down side. Another interface and another program w/ import/export.Getting a hex bridge will help alot. I hardly touched carrara before this version so I wasn't really accustomed to things. Had I been using it I might very well find carrara more comfortable.I just felt like sometimes I had to do more steps in carrara than hex. If I really wanted to model in carrara I would recommend pro over standard that's all. I do love the dynamic geometry tho. Did I say that enough;)

Hey you guys got me going now.Looked like too much fun.

nice....lamp? :>) wayne k guam usa

With some modifications it could be flower or a glass :D Actually that is part of the bodice too. Kinda a cross between victorian and maybe 17th century.

Hex Long Dress 3. With a bit of help from our friends. It's hard to stop when you get on one of these exercises!

Nice bwtr. I am finding I would like more of these kinda tuts in hex. The skirt was easy to modify to fit the form, but I am finding the top much trickier for women. Lot of angles and curves. Tips on different ways to approach different types of clothing would be nice. However, it is alot of fun to just play. I particularly find the holes for sleeves tricky.

Message edited on: 02/25/2006 15:42

Would it better to build around the arm or cut later?

Here is an example. Should I remove the areas around where the sleeves should be (sleeve holes) and weld points or is there a better way. I am going to put some puffy full length sleeves and a collar.

At this point I usually remove a Polygon (or more) at the arm area and shape the hole roughly. That way i can use the extrude tool to "pull" the arms out of the top. mike

Thanks Mike.

Nice umpa-lumpa. :)

Little less umpa-lumpa ;)

hehe, getting there, just for fun I made a real simple one in C4p, I am assuming c5 standard can do all this as well and then some, I even added in a little Aiko morph. ;)

Aren't the arms supposed to come out the sides?

It's one of those strapless prom dresses, jeez, where have you been? :)