In response to GiMi53 Michel said : " I want more interactions between the artists" As you perhaps noticed I disallowed comments for my pictures. I got quite "nostalgic" with the type of comments: " well done, have a good life". I don't give two snaps for such comments, I may as well rely on my inner compass. One of our colligs posted beautiful photograph of a sunrise with a nice description .... what did I notice in one of the comments.?. . ." What a beautiful Sunset". ......... Perhaps this person was in a hurry to meet the daily quota of comments..... If my photography knowledge does not allow me to comment some type of photographs on a technical level, than, I like to tell the artist , what or how do I feel , looking at the photograph. I do not care how many comments I may get, but if there is non , I know that I am wasting RR space. I do not support the idea of encouraging anybody to leave comment by expressing the well known believe " what goes around, comes around".... I do not like the idea of "paying back" the favour for commenting. Art to me is like a true love which is unconditional, therefore the believe "what goes around comes around" have no place in here( commenting the photographs). Things can only get better, Hugs to all, Tofi

While I  like constructive critique, there is also something about just dropping by to say a hello.
Or to express the like of the image.
Remember that not everyone is well versed in critique, so just saying the words of appreciation are what they do.
I have  done this myself,but do try to  mention something about the image. Some are just so darn good there is not much   I can say, but words of awe.
I know of some sites who have strict rules about how comments are to be made, and the minimum amount of words.
But even with these rules, the freindliness still kicks in and you see  the typical  words as you do in this site.
 I appreciate your mention of this, and  it has been brought up many many times, but we are a community.
The gallery now has an option to  select only critique if you choose.
You just have to get people to heed to it.
This may take forever.

We have here a free gallery...which we are using !

It's the active gallery members who shape the gallery. The gallery is used by you (a wide variety of people from beginners to pros). It never ceases to amaze me that people with a gripe about something often complain, but rarely act. The way to make the place what you want it to be is to participate more fully. not less. Which is why I applaud Michel's actions linking to images he thinks deserve a link. Positive action on an issue he wants to see action on.

Some of you will be enjoying your new-found friends and will like to say good things about each other's pics. Others will be looking for advice and want to read useful critiques. Others will be wanting to show off what they just did and feel proud. Others won't be bothered whether friends view or people critique.....................................etc etc  Use the gallery how you enjoy using it, most of the members are. It is that which will make the experience a more enjoyable one for everyone.

Some feel p'ed off that some of the friends' networks get more attention than their own pics. Some feel p'ed off that their black & white pics don't get as many views as the sunsets. Some feel annoyed when they give loads of critique and others give non. Some feel p'ed off when they give a comment and there's no reply. Some feel p'ed off when they give a critique comment and the person they critiqued doesn't like it and retaliates.

In the time I've been commenting, admittedly on far fewer images than I would like, I have had three or four people who responded negatively at my comments. I now know that they don't take critique so I would never comment on their pics again. It hasn't put me off critique and it shouldn't you. 

Next time you're feeling the gallery isn't being used for it's purpose just Stop right there, find a picture that needs help, or a person  who wants critique and use the energy on that instead. If that happens the users of the gallery and the ones who shape it up, will make it better.

OK you might say, but I might be unpopular for doing that, or people might not comment on my images, well thats what the complaint is about isn't it. You don't want empty comments, you will have taken a positive step to making the gallery more how you would like it to be.

Renderosity supplies an empty space - it is us - the people who use it that give it shape and direction. Providing it is within the TOS we all accept by joining, the only way to make it more what you want it to be, is to use more the way you want it to be.

Hi Dana,

I have to agree whole-heartedly with Richard...who once again, is most eloquent at expressing his opinion.

The gallery offers a wide range of experience for us all.It is up to you to make it what you would like it to be.I've been here over a year,and this is what I've learned...If you want critique you must be prepared to give it ,or state it boldly in your notes....If you want many comments you must be prepared to give many...it's really quite simple.It may be wrong,but that is simply how it works.

Like Michel,those of us who get more comments and viewings than others, can also use our own exposure to help those whose work is less noticed...(  Michel,by the way,I applaud you for that.If I knew how to do that linky thing,I would do it,too. PS I'm trying to learn...)

There are other sites Dana,where only strict critique is allowed.You may find that suitable for you.But let me say,that I recently visited one,and there are other issues that 'pop up' in such an environment.At that particular site,there is a wonderfully written article by MJR,(who used to post here at RR)...and in it he discusses the ups and downs of that site...some of which involve site politics and harrassing people for uploading but not commenting enough.It seems you are expected to comment on a certain number of pics before you even upload yourself.If you don't adhere,you are flamed...Just some food for thought.

No one makes anyone comment,here.You do it if you want to.You upload when you want to...and there are no consequences.

This just so happens to work well for me.I don't need additional pressure in my life.Life has enough on it's plate for me,lol. So,I upload when I want, I comment when I want and if I want serious critique,I ask for it...because whenever I have,I have received it. That's all.Simple. I think people make waaaaaaaaaaaay too much of this commenting thing.

That's all I have to say.I hope you ultimately find what you are looking for.I'm sure eventually you will find something that suits you,whether that is here,or somewhere else.Either way,all my best to you. You are and will be an asset to any community you participate in. :^)

PS- Just as an aside,I like keeping in 'touch' with people through they're uploads. I enjoy hearing back from them,too...and I don't see anything wrong with that. For me,that is one of the more enjoyable aspects of this site....the 'friends' I've made...and that is the sense of 'community' that has been described,here,at least as far as I see it.

Sincerely,

Strict critique is unfortunately prone to bias from the one doing the critique. Certainly, a constructive commen on an image I post is appereciated. When it is apparent I simply do not meet the "photographic bias" of the commentator, that critique has little value.

Some who adore nature shots will comment on that and not even look at an abstract image. It works both ways. 

As or me, the comments don't matter much but I do like compliments, believing in some way the image is nice to the viewer.  The comment does't have to be critique. Some shots, as Doug said, are so wonderful to "him" or to "me" or to "you" that a simple compliment is all that is needed.  I do not highly compliment images I feel are way out of basic tech needs but the genre matters not to me...it is either done well or it is not. It is excellent or it is on the way and the poster needs to know that, too.   I will simply skip what comes across as a bad shot (out of focus, etc) and not bother.

And, just as I needed a boost more the year before last than now, a compliment even sandwiched with a suggestion for improvement is appreciated.   Encouragement to budding photos is vital to them.    

Anyway, lots of words for me to say little...maybe 1/2 cent worth. : )       TomDart.

  From what I've been readin...there are  peeps here that are now gettin "flak" from others because its sorta   "expected" that :"they"  comment about someones image!

Well , if thats the case ,it pretty much makes commenting useless in my book! Its not... I scratch your ego....you scratch mine...is it!?!?!? Has anyone noticed that the galleries make "critique" kinda hard to do!  You're limited to only ONE comment....unless you can give cliff notes and get straight to the point...what good is that?!?! 

The majority of comments remind me of the 4th of July....non stop WOWS ....ewwws & ....AHHHS... With only a select few actually offering any kind of constructive feedback! 

I know full well that a snapshot to one person can be seen as artistic to another,,,, but IS everything posted really art...hmmmm?!?!?!

I alway though THIS forum was the place to discuss this kinda thing, but if you REALLY  look. only like 5% of the RR peeps actually come here! Thats based on the 400,000+ so called active membership that is constantly advertised!

There's no doubt that there are peeps that actually know what they are talkin about!  These members should be seen as mentors to the new artists...these are the people who give SOUND advice...not the hellos and WOWS, but real world...how to improve techniques!

Those people who have reach a certain...shall we say...status,  should USE this to SHAPE and DIRECT!

Just my 3 cents!

This is an age old discussion at Renderosity.. people come here for many different reasons.
You have to take many comments with a grain of salt.

I think everyone that has posted to this thread has made some excellent points.

Personally..I often find my self in the position of having to view so many images, I can't comment on all of them..Honestly..I wish I could..So, I'm probably guilty of leaving some pretty simple, and non constructive comment myself.  It's not a comment quota..it's a time thing..

I do however agree..ask for more constructive comments..Not everyone will leave them, but your true friends and fans will...

By the way...the forums are a great place for critique.Post the images... find out what others think.Once you are satisfied with the help here, post it in your gallery for the final result.
I never thought of the gallery as a place for Work in Progress.
If you feel there are not enough people giving you feedback here...ask for it.Message a member to go in the froum with the link and give you  honest opinions.
We should all be ready for what others might say on them.
Ultimatley your finished image should please you, and that is what counts.
As Marlene says about the ones where you must comment  so many times before you can upload...I belonged to one, and what a joke. Too many of the sites who support only useful critique allow such small files, it is hard to get the right opinion anyways.
This site is just excellent used right.

tofi: Very interesting thread.....I also think like that way...
why all the hugs...kisses.....sweethearts.....have a good day......sweetdreams...
wows...ooooooooo......and go on and on....and all the lovely romantic words in a comment?
I see also that some left a comment to view their upload....drop by,
I uploaded a new one....instead a comment for the image that person uploaded.....

And on the other hand....It is no **"dating gallery"...**maybe some will think....look what ILONA is talking about !!
but I see it like that way.....why not IM each other with some personal notes?
It's all about the image you post.....so I understand what you are talking about Tofi.....

 -----------------------------------

dBgrafix: You are right...the forums are a great place for critique...
and even then it can give problems for some.....

 ----------------------------------

Onslow: you explain it very good

 ----------------------------------

Margana: I read all you left here too...you pointed it very good

 ----------------------------------

TomDart: I am totally agree with you point of view....

 ---------------------------------

L8RDAZE: I am totally agree with your point of view
"These members should be seen as mentors to the new artists...these are the people who give SOUND advice...
not the hellos and WOWS, but real world...how to improve techniques!"

 ---------------------------------

pushinfaders: I am totally agree with you....This is an age old discussion at Renderosity
I just comment when I have time....and a day has only 24 hours....I am a member for almost 4 years now...

 ---------------------------------

My way I think about it: some members expect a bit to much me thinks...and to be honest,
all the kisses and hugs beneath images.....I never liked that...
In Holland we never use such kind of language......sorry to say......
its all about the image...and not the personal way you know or feel for a member.....
Don't take this personal...I just say what I think about that.....

And the most important thing is.....you post for your self....if you like your shot...then it is okay....
but always nice if people say their honest opinion....and if you don't like that..just disable the comment option.....
so simple is that....

Sorry if you read some wrong spelled words...I am still a Dutch one......

but I guess I am clear enough

Ilona

Tofi, you are one of the greatest flower photograpers I have ever seen the works of. You are lightyears ahead of the competition. The thing is that I don't even like flower photography... but I did notice the phenomenal monumentality and vision that speaks through your images. Apparently there are only very few people here that seem to have noticed that. Which brings me to this thought: if one of the world's greatest photographers decided to post some images here anonimously, would anyone notice it? Would he get one, two or three comments? Would he only get response if he posts a nice landscape? Or a nude image? Or a cute kitten? Or if he uses 'consumer colors'? To make a long matter short: I couldn't agree with you more, Tofi. And with a wink to another thread here: as far as I'm concerned, you're the Artist of the Century here...

Tofi . . .

I love you.

I agree 100%.  I like to leave compliments to show support for the artists I like, and I admit I've often been guilty of leaving copy-and-paste type of comments, but I never do it just because I want a comment in return.  That's just sleazy and wrong on so many levels.

Coincidentally, I was just considering whether or not I should ever allow comments in my gallery again, since there's so little actual constructive criticism or genuine appreciation that it's hardly worth bothering.  I posted an image awhile back where I specified, both in the submission form and in the image notes, that I wanted nothing but constructive comments.  One of the comments I got actually said "kewl work", and nothing else.  However, I did get comments from nikolais and eyeland that made me feel all gooey inside.

Which brings me to the saving grace of the comment feature: people who actually use it the way it ought to be used.  I've gotten sincere advice and encouragement from time to time, especially from nattarious, jinet and the above-mentioned nikolais and eyeland.  "Jade green frog - selective color version" was entirely inspired by jinet's comments on the original.  He specifically said "Nice photo indeed, but the color of water is really too awful. All the rest is allright. Have you tried to put it in black & white, or selective coloring by keeping only the green and yellow color of the frog?"  I'm really proud of both versions, and without his remarks there would only be one.  Thanks, jinet -- you and others like you are one of the best things about the internet.

So I'm still sort of on the fence.  This site is full of trolls and ass-kissers who just waste space with their comments, but on the other hand you have people like jinet and nattarious who aren't afraid to offer civil, well thought-out advice.  I think that one of the reasons there are so few good people like them are the artists who can't stand to be corrected, who in turn may have developed that overly defensive attitude because of people who leave troll comments in their galleries, and so on.  It really seems like a self-perpetuating cycle, and it's one of the biggest problems with this site.

As a side note, I also like what dBgrafix said about "Ultimatley your finished image should please you, and that is what counts".  I live by those words, dude.

And what TomDart said: "Strict critique is unfortunately prone to bias from the one doing the critique. Certainly, a constructive comment on an image I post is appreciated. When it is apparent I simply do not meet the 'photographic bias' of the commentator, that critique has little value."  Also true.  Glad you also acknowledge the fact that some people have different opinions than others, so few people actually believe that.

I am so glad people are speaking their minds here. I'd like to put in my 3.5 cents, too. My Dad used to say the squeaky wheel gets the most oil. I'd have to say that applies to this place, too. The people getting most of the comments are probably the same ones that jump from upload to upload commenting on each one. Because of this trend I believe Rosity has become more of a popularity contest than a place to come for critique. I realize that the value of each image is a matter of opinion. If you want an image in your gallery, you should upload it. Not everyone will agree with you on the reasons for the upload and that is the beauty of personal art. But when people are expected to hop from image to image just to make an appearance or to leave a non-committal comment, then I start to wonder why I'm here. What bothers me is that there are talented people that feel overlooked. I think it is our obligation to browse the galleries (when we can!) with the attitude that perhaps someone would like to know how to get better. If they don't want constructive criticism, they better check that box! I have actually asked for constructive criticism and then gotten a message that it was distracting to them! LOL You can't win, but sometimes, maybe I WANT to distract you so you'll tell me how to get better. We should all start to appreciate each other's opinions more and put aside the egos that cause people to lash out when they get a constructive criticism. Now that we have the choice of critical and NON critical comments I hope we can use them to everyone's benefit. Thanks for listening. Now help me be a better photographer!! HUGS to you that visit me. I so appreciate your ideas. Jodie

Hello All. I do agree with Doug I'm respect to "dropping by to say a hello" by all means... Yes, not everybody is well versed I'm critique and English language using it with ease(including me ... English is my second language but still, I wish I could speak and write in Ilona's native language as good as she is communicating in English) I do not expect every single comment to be a masterpiece of critique. But if: beautiful, nice,splendid, bravo, etc. becomes a pattern and the only dictionary used I think we shall find better ways of commenting... Richard I hope you know by now, how much I do respect your wide knowledge and the command of English (Shakespeare's as well as Einstein's language is definitely not foreign to you ) I do recognize the teacher in you and highly skilled artist photographer. I got very valuable feedback from you, for which I'm very grateful. I'm glad that after some turbulence times you have had experience in RR, not so long ago, you finally came to the conclusion: "We have here a free gallery... which we are using". I can not agree more with this statement although my agreement may be a bit premature after being here since March 2003... only! In respect to all the "p'-ed offs..." I do not think they apply to my way of interacting with others (Did I say something to that effect in my post?.... ) To the contrary... I do respect other people motives and desires, even if they are different from my own... Human conditions are totally understandable to me. I am not after recognition, applause or popularity here ( I definitely know it's taste from some other fields rather than photography, in my development of creativity ). As far as your suggestion how to use the "energy" to help others, let me assure you I have quite good grip and direction using it in a positive way. I'm glad you are not suggesting ( even in the most polite way ) for me to find the fulfilment in other sites than RR...and at the same time wishing me a good luck !!! Furthermore I went back to my original message here and still... couldn't find in it any suggestions made by me, stating "that the gallery isn't being used for it's purpose". My Only concern was the content of the comments!. Marlene I do know, I have a choice... ( don't we all?... ) With all due respect to your personal opinion in regard to commenting, I must say I disagree with it. From the first part of your message you are just supplying the proof of, "my way or highway". Your statement: "...If you want critique you must be prepared to give it ,or state it boldly in your notes....If you want many comments you must be prepared to give many...it's really quite simple. It may be wrong,but that is simply how it works." And at the end of your post: "No one makes anyone comment,here. You do it if you want to. You upload when you want to...and there are no consequences." You are totally contradicting yourself.. well my dear friend... were are you really on this? I think, even wise diplomacy has teeth, and I will not give-in to this, because I am a simple person and as such, I like to talk straight to the point and be answered in the same way. Warmly. Tofi

I'm sorry,Tofi.But quite frankly,I don't see where I am contradicting myself.Maybe I didn't express myself clearly...or you misunderstood me...

Perhaps if you could tell me how I am doing that,I can then clarify my statement for you.Otherwise, I will only end up repeating myself.

Renderosity offers firstly a great opportunity for constructive comments and secondly it offers the opportunity to weigh the comment for its credibility by studying the person commenting, according to his own work and biography.
Having said that, I should qualify that a submission can only be judged by a person on the same or higher level of competency. However I would like to state that there is more than ample room for a person just dropping a "WOOOW!" or "AAAH" comment. One of the artists also parttaking of this thread, made me aware of the tremendous significance of such a reaction in the commercial world.

I am aware of great artists (gut feel in some cases) being overlooked and never getting any good form of critique - which is a pity! We as members should take full responsibilty for this. Am I propagating a tit-for-tat approach, you scratch my back and I will scratch yours? No, what I may suggest is that one should look around and even comment more than the number of comments received. I still feel humble when a well established member takes cognisance of my work with a credible comment - be it well construed or just a "wow this is great!"

I would welcome more critisism, no doubt and will in future state so clearly in my accompanying comment. I will be willing to stomach whatever comes my way and appreciate it for what it's worth. After all, that person is taking valuable time to do so. If that is not 100% successful, then I rest my case and enjoy Rosity for the rest of the benefits, after all, I had my fair share of fun by the time I get around to submitting my work.

Good luck and don't forget to have fun too!

One thing I do is leave constractive crit/comments ALL the time. I've gotta wonder how many ppl "hate" me for them. But as Doug says - when you really like an image - why crit is - simply admire it!

In a class I don't remember, years ago, the teacher offered criticism of my work. That was accepted.  When I did well, "Well done" was the response. I accepted both at face value.

It did help to know the source of both statements.

Hi Tom,

When I was a student, my assignments were always evaluated with the supporting comment from the professor. Even more..we (students) always had a chance to get back to professor or his/her assistance and have a discussion ,even to disagree ,and proof our theses......which of course wouldn't change the original level of evaluation.... Still, nothing was taken at the face value...... Perhaps we are in a different time and no more at Kindergarten or University......

PeeWee, you just keep on leaving those criticisms no matter how much flame mail you get.  You've got the right idea, and it's your right to speak your mind.  Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

Sorry I forgot to mention you when I was giving props to the people who'd left me proper comments.

I wasn't even going to add to this thread, but I figure I'm here, why not! 

Well....... after wasting all my time reading this thread instead of commenting on others uploads..... I have come to the conclusion that Tom has said it best!!!!!

I think everyone else is just getting too worked up over the issue. 

I upload because "I" want to.............. I comment because "I" want to............ I accept comments (good or bad) because "I" want them. When "I" feel like I need help "I" post in the forum and ask for it.

I've been here over a year now and I've met a lot of really nice and helpful people, but I've seen a lot of great artist pull their galleries and why?????  Mostly following someone else!!!!

Sorry, I am my own person, I'm not a follower and I do my own thing here and accept everything that comes my way at face value too.  

Alot of folks may not agree with.......... but it doesn't matter.......... I'm still here.

To Bentchick and Tofi,

Bentchick, I agree. My gallery is my personal thing. In it you will find (by my choice) some images I would not post today. Why? At the time, at my level then I was quite happy with what I had done. My gallery is a personal measure to me of progress and change. To me, it is a chronology of my direction and level of skill.  I personally find that valuable.    Thanks for thinking what I said has merit. What I say is how I feel.

Tofi, to me the expression "at face value" was mostly from highschool type classes with the "understanding" that the teacher knew whether or not I was up to stuff.  In higher education, there was some discussion and reasons why were discussed. Still, the prof seemed to have the upper hand.    I suppose, I could have simply said: Consider the source of the comment and the constructive criticism. If this is someone you respect in his or her work, the comment means more than from an unknown. Still, I will look when the rare criticism is recieved no matter from whom it comes and see if that appears justified or actually constructive.   Rare criticism..rare not because of image quality but because constructive criticism is rarely given regardless.   I still upload what I personally like with little regard to what criticism or comment may or may not be received.

So much for all this ado.                TomDart.

Quote - I've been here over a year now and I've met a lot of really nice and helpful people, but I've seen a lot of great artist pull their galleries and why?????  Mostly following someone else!!!!

 a lot of the great artists that were here were banned and had no choice

To bentchick & lizzielae......

Yes most of the great artists were banned! Locked out from this place!!!!!
I was sencored & deleted when I honnestly expressed myself.....a couple of times TO MENY!!!
So I didn't wanted to participate with my pictures any longer...

And the drop wich made me very angry...was when those who have achived the GOM,
wich was supposed to remain for lifetime....got deleted!!!!!!!!

I have had the honnour being invited to PhotoGenesis....
were there are no Ohs nor WOW's or Ahhhs!!!

LUCKY MEEEEEE :)

But it was with sorrow in my heart I deleted my gallery here....Have been here a loooong time....
But I have no regretts...'cause...the time (the soul & Aura) were I really appriciated being here... 

Is defenatly gone......

But I still miss some great friends........

Bout the comments......hm.....I never got so meny...didn't bother....
cause I didn't made those "manouvers"....wich I was told to do.....
Lobbying for votes....comments...Hot 20.......
I think that's sort of cheating.......
Those who wanted to view my work...was good enough for me!

Anyway.......I was here cause I loved sharing my work.....
but I made..... eh.....(ironical)  some misstakes......expressing myself...
& my inner......got deleted..so meny times....

SO I got fed UPP......& didn't any longer want to share!!!!

I wish U folks good luck...keep being creative!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sertainly do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P&K

"a lot of the great artists that were here were banned and had no choice"

Sorry, but they did have a choice...They could have played by the rules like everyone else.

Even if you disagree with a rule...(or a law for that matter)...It still is a rule..

It's a three strike policy..So, they had plenty of oportunity and choices.

Funny, for a member who just joined today..You know seem to know alot about what goes on here.

I thought this thread started out with some valid questions and discussions.

Now..it seems to have degraded..

So...I'm locking this thread