well, considering a boost in self-esteem, possible improved looks (many factors come into play here), and a really big change in one's life might give one the idea that other things in their life need change as well..;)

ive put together yet another little collage...

this one is for people who assume that any little bumps on a woman's torso are 'ribs', and also that seeing someones ribs automatically means that they are 'unhealthy' or 'anorexic'.
if i had a nickel for every time i heard 'she needs to put on some weight, i can see her ribs' id be a rich man. seeing someones ribs has more to do with their percentage of body fat than their overall health or weight class. yes, unhealthily skinny and anorexic people generally have their ribs showing. but someone can very easily be in exceptional health and still have their ribs clearly visible. many photos also have women arching their backs and inhaling to puff out their chests, thereby making their ribs more prominent. there are many people whose ribs dont show when they are standing up straight, but if they just pull their arms back a bit youd be able to count them.

the 'gasp, i can see his/her ribs, we need to fatten him/her up' mentality is so old world its not funny. its about as good an indicator of someones overall health as judging someones intelligence by the size of their head.
also, ive often seen the serratus and pectoralis muscles confused with ribs as well. so heres a little chart illustrating the difference.

btw, the sickly girl at the bottom is kate bosworth. more unhealthy actresses can be seen at www.wwtdd.com

I still don't find it attractive to see bones poking through a woman's skin. And I find most female body builder bodies quite gross looking.   Being fit is one thing, but looking like a man with boobs is quite another.

With the bodybuilders you can make the arguement that they are actually underweight and skirting being unhealthy because of the harsh dieting they do in the lead-up to a show/competition/photoshoot to get their skin to go tight to show off their guns better.

But in terms of an illustrative effect in a render you would lean towards that "Show Build" rather than that of your average regular gym visitor to underline the theme/idea of ultra-fittness/athleticism.

Cheers

...but none of the above examples look even remotely like men with boobs.

the point i am trying to make is this -- regardless of what your personal definition of 'healthy' or 'aesthetically pleasing' is, it hardly gives you the right to call someone else anorexic simply because they may have their ribs showing.

i have my own definition of healthy and aesthetically pleasing... but it doesnt mean that if i see a woman walking down the street that doesnt match my personal ideal i will call her 'fat'. thats just wrong. and in a million years i would never go and comment on someones BBW morph - or IM them - and say it is 'disgustingly fat and you should change it immediately since this type of thing is offensive doesnt belong at renderosity'. yet apparently it is perfectly acceptable the other way around. if i posted some of the comments and IMs ive gotten on some of my morphs and changed the word 'anorexic' to 'fat', i would probably be banned from renderosity in the resulting uproar.

in this day and age it is politically incorrect to even call someone 'overweight'. what irks me is the double standard, however. where if you call someone 'overweight' its a ghastly insult, yet it is perfectly acceptable for many larger people to call anyone thinner than them anorexic or unhealthy. its this imposition of ones own ideals that disturbs me.

if you notice in this entire thread i have never imposed my own ideals on anyone, i am merely trying to get people to stop the derogatory remarks against any morph that may not fit their own ideals... and to illustrate that 'anorexic' isnt a blanket term for anyone that happens to be thin.

My personal thought?  Either gender....Bodybuilders = ick.  I mean, if you're comfortable that way, go for it.  If you think I look ick, great.  We agree that we each look ick. 
Now, I look at women like Angela Bassett, and think, man, for someone with guns like she's got, she's STILL kept a feminine physique.  That, I find not only healthy, but totally sexy.....I know this is going to sound weird, but, I think that breasts are one of the most beautiful things that we as women have to call our own.  And, once you've worked out to the point of majorly reducing your breast size and replace them with huge pectoral muscles, that's not healthy, either.  Yeah, sure, maybe you're physically fit, buff, can kick my ass....but, well, I'm still not gonna say "ooooooh, you're hot".  Unless maybe you're on fire.  There is a point while building muscle mass that you lose essential girly fats.  Like ass and boob fat.  And, in my (not very humble) opinion, that's where you get icky, too.  But, yes, there are other reasons for being able to see "ribs" (even when they 're not ribs, but muscles, as you've so wonderfully pointed out), or other bones or bone groups.  For example (and I'd even show a pic if I had the cord for my camera), my wrist bones stick out horribly.  I currently weigh 245 lbs. (got weighed last night), and, if someone only looked at my hand and wrist, they'd think that I was unhealthily skinny, because my hands are thin and my wrist bones are actually larger than normal.  It's to the point where it's uncomfortable to write without a cushion for my wrist, and where I just don't use a mouse that isn't a trackball, so I don't drag my wrist around.  I'm a lardo, lol, and I even have bones that stick out!  (And, don't even start with being able to tell one's weight-regarded health by their skin tone.  I am the epitome of aenimicly white skin, and I'm perfectly healthy, thanks.)

> Quote -   And, once you've worked out to the point of majorly reducing your breast size and replace them with huge pectoral muscles, that's not healthy, either.  Yeah, sure, maybe you're physically fit, buff, can kick my ass....but, well, I'm still not gonna say "ooooooh, you're hot".  Unless maybe you're on fire.  There is a point while building muscle mass that you lose essential girly fats.  Like ass and boob fat. 

ive never found women that work out to the point that they completely lose their breasts attractive.
but women who work their pecs - with moderation - actually get firmer, higher breasts as a result since the underlying muscle tissue supports and raises them. same goes for the buttocks. working out does not necessarily mean you lose your femininity.

i think that a blanket statement saying that 'women who are into bodybuilding are not feminine' is untrue and unfair. IMO many of them overdo it and end up looking erm.. different... but thats true with males too.
but some women who are into bodybuilding know exactly when to stop and arrive at a very attractive look that is not unfeminine (IMO). not what id consider my personal ideal, but very attractive either way.

I see the double standard you are illustrating BH.

 

I agree..if it was the other way around,there would be hell to pay.

Yeah, the girl in that set of pics hasn't done the bodybuilder dehydration thing to her skin - looks much better and no doubt has spent many hours earning that physique.

She reminds me most of your girl next door morph.

Cheers

Quote - i have my own definition of healthy and aesthetically pleasing....i would never go and comment on someones BBW morph - or IM them - and say it is 'disgustingly fat and you should change it immediately since this type of thing is offensive doesnt belong at renderosity'. yet apparently it is perfectly acceptable the other way around. if i posted some of the comments and IMs ive gotten on some of my morphs and changed the word 'anorexic' to 'fat', i would probably be banned from renderosity in the resulting uproar.

We all have our own idea of what is attractive, true.

I also agree that people shouldn't be sending you or anyone else nasty IMs about your morphs.  You are the artist and you create to your ideal, for those that share the same ideal.

As I said above those that don't like your morphs, or anyone else's  for that matter, should just move along and find something that fits their ideal.

Quote - in this day and age it is politically incorrect to even call someone 'overweight'. what irks me is the double standard, however. where if you call someone 'overweight' its a ghastly insult, yet it is perfectly acceptable for many larger people to call anyone thinner than them anorexic or unhealthy. its this imposition of ones own ideals that disturbs me.

I don't see a double standard.  I'm on the heavy side and believe me, I hear my share of fat comments.  When I was 118 pounds I also heard my share of  "skinny" comments too.  From my perspective there is no double standard.

Quote - if you notice in this entire thread i have never imposed my own ideals on anyone, i am merely trying to get people to stop the derogatory remarks against any morph that may not fit their own ideals... and to illustrate that 'anorexic' isnt a blanket term for anyone that happens to be thin.

Understood :)

Quote - i think that a blanket statement saying that 'women who are into bodybuilding are not feminine' is untrue and unfair. IMO many of them overdo it and end up looking erm.. different... but thats true with males too.
but some women who are into bodybuilding know exactly when to stop and arrive at a very attractive look that is not unfeminine (IMO). not what id consider my personal ideal, but very attractive either way.

Many women who are heavy into bodybuilding take testosterone injections -- because without the injections, it would be impossible for those women to look the way that they look.  No matter how hard they worked out.

Male bodybuilders, too are frequently into the heavy steroid use thing.  Bodybuilders from a former era never looked like the "Hulk" types that we see today.  Ahhhhh......the miracles of modern drug therapy......and what it can do for (read: to) you.......especially in the long term.  Many of those people, both male & female, pay an extremely heavy price in their later years.  As do many former pro athletes of various kinds.  The human body can only take just so much long-term abuse.

[Hint: my taste most decidedly does not run to female body-builders.  To be brutally frank, I think that the more extreme forms of it look freakish & deformed.  Although body toning can be attractive.]

I strongly agree on the central point of this thread -- I get very weary of hearing whiny gripes about the Poser market in general being too overrun with supermodel figures.  Big deal.  Popular culture in general is "overrun" with real-life supermodel figures.  And this state of affairs ain't going to change.  Personal attractiveness has always been an inborn advantage to those who possess it.  Just like an exceptionally high IQ, or a great musical talent, or super athletic abilities.  Life simply isn't fair.  Either learn to accept that fact -- or else live an embittered existence.  Because V3-esque models & characters will ALWAYS dominate the market, so long as human nature remains.

Griping about it is a form of spitting into the wind.

agreed
in terms of this thread though, id say that most of the women who take steroids are in the 'musclebound' category -- both due tot he effects of the drug and their desire to look like that.

in terms of bodybuilding, the upper limit of what i consider attractive is the 'muscular' examples on the first post of this thread. those are highly achievable for a woman without taking steroids.

well, when it comes to musclebound women, I'm not going to start any arguments..;)

In terms of women's physique's à-la-bodybuilding there are two different worlds. There is the Women's bodybuilding which is the same as the men's bodybuilding world whereby they attempt to gain the maximum muscle mass in their category (ie: lightweight, middle, heavy etc). Arnold Schwartzenegger (male) and Cory Everson (female) were heavy weights.

Then there is the Women's fitness circuit, aerobic queens and the like, similar to BH's post above. They must demonstrate overall fitness capability and appearance. Muscle mass is not a consideration but low body fat is. This is the category that BH's GND falls into IMO.

Poser is almost strictly a hobbiest software. As a hobby you want to create beautiful things. One of my hobbies is carpentry. Although I've made some pretty ugly pieces of furniture, they are not on display in my house and eventually find their way into the fireplace.

Same goes with Poser art. In our day and age there are a few typical female forms that are considered the ideal. If we were living in the 16th C (the time of Peter Paul Rubens) there would be a lot more (what we consider today to be overweight) plump women.

Anorexia is a medical condition. But it is also a word that has fallen into the English vernacular. So, although I agree with 95% of what BH has said here, we shouldn't get our nose bent out of shape when the word anorexic is used as a superlative adjective because someone is trying to make a point.

Perhaps BH should have renamed this thread BH's Anorexia Primer...a pet peeve.

(BTW: GND is my second favourite V3 morph).

<strong>bandolin</strong><br />
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<p><em>Caution: just a hobbyist</em></p>

to be honest thats another pet peeve of mine
all of the people bitching about NVIATWAS renders, nude pinups, etc.

poser is a hobbyist app and most of the people using it are doing it for recreation.
so if they want to render nude pinups, or NVIATWAS renders, whats wrong with it? they all paid the price of admission so what they choose to do with the software should be up to them. if they are content creating NVIATWAS renders who are you to tell them they shouldnt be?

the galleries are full of literally thousands of comments like 'nice armor, but what warrior would wear that? its so laughably impractical'. erm.. who cares? tell that to every fantasy artist in the last 60 years, starting with frank frazetta. the point is that its 'fantasy art'. practicality takes a backseat :)

i dont like huge breasts. ya know, the gigantic implant type like this... but some of the breast morphs released in the past by wyrm for example actually dwarf those. the woman would not be able to stand up unassisted, without guylines holding her up. i wont comment on someones image to say 'ugh, those breasts are impossibly large and she wouldnt be able to stand up.. how impractical - you need to maker them smaller'. if the creator of the image likes them, and went out of their way to make them like that, then its their right to do so. this is their hobby and they can make whatever they want.
if someone paints pictures of iguanas dancing the polka in their free time, i might give them technical advice on oil painting, or even on iguana anatomy, but i wouldnt try to talk them out of painting them because i thought it was 'impractical' or 'not art'.

Bh I think your women are positively gorgeous!!!
being a mother of 3 small children
I myself am a bit curvy and toting about a few extra pounds i'd like to loose, and retain a size of 12 (my body structure and anything under that would look hideous)

I think its more of the body structure that ppl look at, like me im 5'8 and well weight isnt important but if i were to go below a size 12 ppl would think me sickly  as i am just not built to be a tiny little thing. its genetics. All the women in my family are healthily curvy. Some like it some dont.

-shrugs-

Interesting read. I have one question. How can a Poser  3D model have an eating disorder? BH's figures are what they are. If you like them buy them. Ifyou don't liked them don't buy them but don't forget they are not human. They can not have an eating disorder.