I went on an interview for the company that does the special effects for Blue Man Group concert videos.  They had alot of greenscreen footage and they were looking for a compositor and rotoscoper.  I was asked to bring in a reel of my greenscreen work.  The interview was going ok, I'd say not good or bad.  At the end of it they said they were looking forward to see my reel and I told them I also added a couple of 3D shots it in at the end (i figured it couldn't hurt to showcase a few other cool things I thought I did).  One of the guys asked me "what program did you use for it" and I told Him Poser and he laughed out loud and said in a real snobby way " well, we use Maya around here".   His partner held in his laugh but it was obvious he felt the same way.

I started getting into 3D about 6 months  ago with Poser and I feel like i've learned so much and really improved myself as a filmmakerand artist.  I'm sorry I'm not ready ready for a program like Maya but I bet if I told  *him I did it Lightwave or another program he would have believed it after seeing it.  Cant they cut us some slack?  Base your opinion on how it looks not what program was used to make it  *

Well, I operate on both ends of the spectrum. I use Poser, bryce,  and wings, but I also use Rhino, Lightwave and 3ds Max. Which one I use depends on what I want to do.
IMO it doesn't matter which tools you use, it's the finished product that counts.

Amen to that!!

dude for all it does poser totally kills.  no 3d suite on the planet can match it.  and it's coming of age.  of course, you'll never be able to model in it...but you do 2d photo editing in photoshop or something.  and the work some people here put out, (not lengthy animations, but stills) are equal to anything done in the "professional" world.  look at final fantasy (still the best, 5 years on) and match that to some stuff our guys do.  let them whine about how their suite is superior, while you make cooler looking people.

No matter what you feel about the Poser bias (which is totally unjustified BTW) this doesn't change the fact that it's quite real and pervasive in the 3D industry. There is nothing you can do about this really, if you want a job, don't mention that you use Poser unless the job is for a 3d-related field like illustration or something. And even then you should be presenting your work as illustration/2D done in Photoshop/Painter and not a 3D render in poser.

Plus keep in mind that Poser is not the best medium to show off your skills in the first place. Poser makes things too cookie cutter and easy for you. eg if your render has V3, lights by A, clothes by B, backdrops by C etc, then anyone with the same kind of props and presets will get the same result from poser. This makes it very hard for a prospective employer to evaluate just what was 'your' contribution in a work. ie why should they hire you instead of the next guy doing the same thing ? Of course you may have made a better composition and scene, but frankly that isn't as important as you may think, since all that stuff is already decided (by the design, storyboard and concept guys) way before a scene ever reaches your computer.

Sure its different if you are your own boss or are working freelance or something, cause then only the results matter and as long as they are under budget/on time no one cares what you use.

A lot of the problem is just the money. People who spend a lot of money and something often seem to need to feel better about their expenditure by looking down on cheaper products, or by emphasizing the good points of theirs and the bad points of yours. Maya costs about 20 times what Poser does, so that's how it goes. If you went in with a demo reel of Maya stuff, and they used Houdini (which runs about 5 times as much as Maya) you might have had the same reaction.

Bottom line is, there's not much you can do about snobbery; some peoples got da affliction, some peoples don't.

Captain Jack

The same thing happens in the paint and canvas media. I used to paint the classical way which would take days to complete a picture using expensive paints and brushes. Then I discovered the "wet on Wet" techinque the one the Bob Ross had made so popular. In short I was told that the wet on wet was like painting by numbers.

" well, we use Maya around here".  

I think it has to do with licensing.  IE....you have to use whatever package your employer has.

I don't think it's Poser snobbery at all. If you go to a job interview they don't want to know what you can do with a low end piece of software. They want to know what you can do with industry standard software.

A home hobbyist can use any software he pleases, but to get a job you need to use what the industry uses.

Maya....$2,000  (If I am correct on the price, but that is what I see it go for, unless someone else clarifies info)

Poser.....$249.00

Job interview....Priceless.

Even on the net, I get joked on, when I tell em I use poser.

sigh..I think it should be the skill of the user; I've seen things in Wings that make my jaw drop, and I've seen things in Rhino that make me laugh at them..;)

Yeah, it's all about what you know in terms of software. If it's the 'in house' app, that's what you have to deal with. It's mainly training costs; no one wants to pick that up if they can help it. It shouldn't be that hard to find, even the local tech school around these parts (Wake Tech), has a Maya class.  If you knew Maya, that's the thing they're interested in. I would have asked them to look at the stuff first, and then commented on 'amazing that it was done in Poser, eh?'..;)

but that's me..;)

 Oh I forgot after the guy said "well, we use Maya around here" his partner jumped in and said, ( some may call you a poser for using that software).

Unless you have a job in 3D already or are a -current- student, chances are you're using Maya illegally from some sort of warez download, given the extreme price of the app...

So when a prospective employer expects a new entry into the industry to already have experience with it, they're really expecting someone who is willing to break a competitor's copyrights.

The rest of us have to learn on apps at other ends of the spectrum, and maybe we might take a class and learn Maya, but we aren't going to be using it until we either steal it or enter the professional industry under a well funded employer.

Quote - Unless you have a job in 3D already or are a -current- student, chances are you're using Maya illegally from some sort of warez download, given the extreme price of the app...

So when a prospective employer expects a new entry into the industry to already have experience with it, they're really expecting someone who is willing to break a competitor's copyrights.

The rest of us have to learn on apps at other ends of the spectrum, and maybe we might take a class and learn Maya, but we aren't going to be using it until we either steal it or enter the professional industry under a well funded employer.

An astute observation to say the least. I know I sure don't have 2Gs to drop on a program. I'd rather spend some of that on upgrades to my computer. Not only that my wife would have my head her being the CFO and all...LOL!!!!

In short I was told that the wet on wet was like painting by numbers.

Funny.. my dad who's now retired paints that way.. only mixing a basic base colour on his pallet then mixing the shades he wants on the painting itself as he goes.

can't be that good then... only got a wing dedicated to his work at the London Fire Brigade Museam in London and sculpted figurines for all the British Army Regiments... ;)

Welcome to the third world, where money is the measure of a man (or a woman).  If you don't have that Mercedes of a program (Maya, softimage, Lightwave, 3D studio, etc), you are invited to wallow in th gutter.  so, there you are, master of a program that cost you a few paltry dollars, and the people that spent thousands on the big car program are still learning.

Take solace in that you are not alone.  Many of us endure the same insults.  People will see an image or anim done in Poser and ask in awe, "Whence came this?" When you answer "from the pallette of Poser", they will scoff and belittle to cover up that they were the ones impressed and were taken in by the beauty of the image.

such is life

Ask them, if Poser is such a 'toy', why there is so much support for it in these big, all-important applications?

3DSMax: GestureMax, BodyStudio
Maya: CR2 Loader, BodyStudio
LightWave: CR2 Loader, BodyStudio
C4D: CR2 Loader, BodyStudio, interPoser, CinePoser
Strata: CR2 Loader
Vue: Native Poser support
Carrara: Native support and Transposer
DAZ|Studio

And there are probably a dozen more that I've missed.

Maya's learning curve is basically a line that goes vertical from zero.  It is considered one of the most difficult 3D applications to learn and may take years or decades to master.  Expecting a green-horn to be fluent in this (and not already be in the industry working with it) deserves a good laugh...

The reason poser is laughed at is it is very limited and not professional. I would not mention it at all. It's a plug'n to the major apps, but if you can't use the major apps, but you can use poser you are screwed. The major apps can do all the things that poser can do and they do it much better. To think otherwise is incorrect. You may see Poser used for some quick shots here and there but it is not used in any blockbuster movies. It pales in comparision to the pro apps. I still like poser but we need some perspective. That doesn't mean that there isn't some exceptional art made with poser. There is. I just wouldn't go into a studio bragging about poser when there are trained professional users of the major 3d apps all around.

If you buy a nice car, and then pretty it up with a bunch of aftermarket add-ons and a custom paint job done by somebody else, it might look impressive to a lot of people.

But it's not going to impress the guy down at the garage who builds his own cars from the engine out, including fabricating the custom fiberglass body pieces. He knows that your skills don't match his... and he's RIGHT! If he wants to laugh at your car, there's not much you can say about it.

That's the issue with Poser - the quality of the finsihed work is only a PARTIAL reflection of the skill of the artist. It's also a reflection of the skill of the artists whose purchased items went into making up the image. It's the difference between using Stonemason's awesome sets for a background vs. being able to build and texture sets as well as Stonemason does. Looking at the final image, you'd be hard pressed to tell if the creator is a great talent, or just a half-decent hack who had the sense to incorporate someone else's great talent.

Unfortunately, even if the guy at the garage DOESN'T laugh at your car, chances are the idiot that works with him will. You know who I mean... that guy who thinks he's a hot-shot mechancic, but reallly the boss only lets him do oil changes, tire rotations and sweeping up, because he makes a mess of anything else he's given. Even though he hasn't earned the right to feel superior the way his co-worker has, he still does - just because he works in the same shop. Such is human nature.

As for the interview (and MANY, MANY other situations) a good rule of thumb is never volunteer information. Of course, they did ask you directly what you used. If you want to be cagey, you can always come back with something like "I've got a number of apps in my toolkit... I usually take an eclectic approach. I always think the work is more important than the tools used to create it."

Anyone who wants to learn Maya can go to their web site and download Maya 7 Learning Edition for free.

You can't export to other formats and it renders with watermarks, but if you're serious about learning how to use the program .............

it's a bias against poser, not towards it - just a minor syntax note we may see something to change that bias in poser 7, but as it stands now, poser is not comparable to the various professional 3D modellers/renderers IMVHO. all one needs to do to confirm that is to visit the gallery here, or note the many threads in which poser users are advised to take shortcuts to speed up renders. invariably these shortcuts, when combined with poser's intrinsic bad joints, lead to the sort of renders which 3D professionals laugh at. it's the "poser look" that I am sincerely hoping we'll escape in v.7. right now, a person with years of experience in poser and other renderers can do a render in poser that any 3D professional will admire, but the typical default render by an inexperienced user is what 3D professionals will laugh at. animation in poser is the same story. I think poser is the easiest 3D app in which to produce human animations, but users take so many shortcuts to speed things up, that the resulting animations are not up to the standards required by 3D professionals IMVHO. if it takes 6 months in poser to do a 5-minute clip, or it takes 18 months in poser to do a 12-minute clip, that is not a professionally acceptable timetable IMVHO, regardless of the various mitigating factors provided by the animators.

Yes, anyone can learn Maya - but that doesn't change the learning curve.  I didn't just make that up - it is well known that it has the steepest learning curve of any 3D CG application.

And the reason is that Maya is geared directly towards a studio environment - not personal use.  If I had gone to this interview, and said that I use Poser, Vue 5 Infinite, Carrara, Bryce, D|S, Lightwave, Cinema 4D Studio, and so on - they'd probably still say the same thing.  Their loss and I wouldn't go to an interview where the expectation is for software not in my experience.  If they didn't make that known (Must have Maya experience), that is THEIR fault - not the poor interviewee's.

Laughing under these circumstances isn't exactly warranted, but we'd need more information to make a determination.

And I agree that Poser isn't up there with the big boys - but some restraint and humility might be in order for the interviewers here.  I remember that after HS, I was going to go to Art college - the interviewer laughed at me for not having the source of funds (and not even recommending scholarships or student loans).  Since then, I've mastered EM enginering/design/drafting, computer programming in several languages, computers in general, electric and classical guitar, self-taught in Physics and a variety of college-level mathematics, etc.  Remember the kid in "The Incredibles" - this is something of what happens when a-holes laugh at people out of ridicule.  They either go commit suicide or they found Microsoft and squash their detractors. ;)

Well, I think metacreations did a good job in the gui in its programs, Poser, Bryce, canoma... I have test some expensive applications, and none of them has the great interface poser has.

In other way, there is some programs out there, free and open source programs that can do a good job for modeling an render and igf you compare that group with the expensive group, 3d max, maya, softimage,... realy you think you must  pay thousands of dollar for them?, I think the answer is , today, no, perhaps years ago.

I had a counselor in high school who wouldn't let me take a Latin class because he thought I wouldn't be able to handle it. So i taught myself. I recently finished a translation of caesar's Gallic War.

Take a look at blender.org and what they did with "the elephant man" and you know that whoever tells you that "he uses MAYA" , has spent to much money which he will never admit. The fact that he has MAYA ,doesn't make him a great artist. It's the results that matters not the tools you have to achieve that result.

Agreed completely.  After my disappointment with 'Art school', I ran a rather successful business doing dungaree jacket artwork and other stuff.  I was well known in the Philadelphia area.  This from a poor kid who had no opportunities during the Reagan rape of America.  Now that Bush is raping America (repeatedly and without a condom), I feel good that I'm a self-made human being who doesn't exploit and use others for personal advancement.  Sorry about the political meandering.

'That's the issue with Poser - the quality of the finsihed work is only a PARTIAL reflection of the skill of the artist. It's also a reflection of the skill of the artists whose purchased items went into making up the image. It's the difference between using Stonemason's awesome sets for a background vs. being able to build and texture sets as well as Stonemason does. Looking at the final image, you'd be hard pressed to tell if the creator is a great talent, or just a half-decent hack who had the sense to incorporate someone else's great talent.'

I was of the understanding that jobs in professional 3d studios were quite specialized in themselves - i.e. you model, make textures or material shaders, construct scenes or lighting etc. An individual would rarely be responsible for all those processes right up to and including rendering.
As such, although the Poser artist might use elements 'made' by someone else (or many others)in a render, the creative use of those items in a scene might be no less impressive than a professional performing the same role - putting all the pieces together. That is a talent all of its own.

Beatifully modelled and textured products on their own do not a great render make.

While I agree that Poser is in a much smaller league to the high-end apps, it does offer the same potential as a tool for an artist to express that talent.

'Only a bad workman blames his tools'.

I like political, I like seeing others ideas about THEIR country. As far as I'm concerned until this archaic two party system is abolished, the courts removed from deciding elections and third party candidates can run without being blocked, removed from ballots and oppressed then the two parties are going to continue to drag the rest of us down. They don’t care about us only in money and power and it runs down both sides of the isle.  Years ago I would have said things differently and I believed differently but I was young and foolish and hadn’t been sent to hell and back a few times or did I see the real world. One thing is for certain and that is there is plenty of suffering going on right here in the good ol’ US of A you don’t need to go the Iraq, Somalia or some third world to find it. It’s just not Bush raping this nation it’s politicians in general. They are the reason wars are started. Sorry now I went political!

 Laughing at someone to make one feel better about themselves is so grade school and insecure.  While poser is not a super duper, mega bucks program it is still a tool much like a palette knife, brush and canvas. It depends on the artist. I’ve seen some amazing and incredible art in my travels in this world done by people with the very basic of tools and with little or no education. One can have all the most expensive tools at their disposal but if they have no heart, there is no art. It’s like music you can hit every note on pitch and have all the mechanics but if you have no feeling for music it means nothing.

Okay I’ll shut up now.

Tools can be important.  One would not necessarily hire someone with hand lathe experience to use a CNC lathe.  But the determination here is based upon potential rather than tool-set.  Someone who appears willing to learn the process when experience is unavailable is better than nothing at all.
In situations where there is a wide field of applicants from which to choose, it is demeaning to belittle those who try but are not qualified.  Give them a pat on the shoulder and say "get the experience for the next round of availabilties".  That's humane, conscientious, and nondemeaning.  Laughing at the applicant is frustrating, demeaning, and outright scandlous.  This exudes an air of superiority and arrogance.

I was taken from a simple 'draftsman' position (making part and assembly drawings)  to engineer of a multilayered, magnetically-shelded enclosure for SQUID equipment.  The raise was insignificant, but I applied every ounce of experience, knowledge, and learning capable to meet the challenge.  For the most part, the operation was successful considering the large requirements.  In this case, it was an internal affair under mitigating circumstances, but the potential was utilized and had a beneficial outcome.  It is often in history that a risk given to an unknown results in exemplary advancements.  Remember that all of the television and computer video technology in use today (CRT) was the idea of a simple farmer (Farnsworth) who died poor and destitude because of big-business (RCA for the most part).  How we compensate innovation is as important as how we compensate mundane continuity.

For example, I am modeling now in Wings3d, and sincerelly, I don't chage wings3d for any expensive program like max ... ( talking about modeling only)

Well, wings is an excellent program, and if it does what you want then there's really no need to lay out money for another program. After all, the finished models are really no different than if they were made with one of the more expensive ones.

Quote - Agreed completely.  After my disappointment with 'Art school', I ran a rather successful business doing dungaree jacket artwork and other stuff.  I was well known in the Philadelphia area.  This from a poor kid who had no opportunities during the Reagan rape of America.  Now that Bush is raping America (repeatedly and without a condom), I feel good that I'm a self-made human being who doesn't exploit and use others for personal advancement.  Sorry about the political meandering.

I didn't see the word "government" mentioned anywhere in that story of success.......strange.  Very strange.  Being a "self-made human being" is an excellent qualification for one holding to the politically conservative philosophy.  There's not a single hand-out in the list.

As for "exploiting others for personal advancement" -- that sounds like an excellent metaphor for the operation of taxes: which are doled out for purposes of 'personal advancement'.  If "personal advancement" isn't too ironic of a term to indicate what typically happens to the recipients of government "largesse" ((read: Confiscate it from Peter to hand it out to Paul -- and purchase Paul's vote in the process -- and thus buy political power for oneself -- which was the ultimate goal all along.  But it's best done with Peter's confiscated middle-class money.  Limousine Liberals always have their own handy trust funds, and needn't worry themselves about such trivia.)).

Speaking of handouts -- I'll take a free copy of Maya -- and 3dsmax.  I have Lightwave.  But I had to pay for it (gr-r-r-r-r-r-r-r!).

---For example, I am modeling now in Wings3d, and sincerelly, I don't chage wings3d for any expensive program like max---

I think it depends on what you're used to work with: I've made my first 3D-modelling in Autocad, which was a crime to use, later I worked with Rhino3D because it had a similar interface like autocad (eight years ago, now it's completely different!) but a much better way of 3D-modeling. I've tried wings3D, anim8tor, cinema3D, blender  and some other programs... but I've always returned to Rhino because of the trusted feeling it gives me. I know Rhino isn't cheap compaired to WIngs3D, although much cheaper than MAYA or MAX, but it is a tool which I love to work with: it gives the right precision I need as an engineer, but it can also gives you a more satisfying organic approach to your work. On the other hand it lacks any support for character-modelling, so Poser is a good partner, E-frontier has even made a free Rhino-export plug-in. And I think that with the new Rhino4 upgrade, which has a lot of more mesh-support, it will only be better.
I liked wings3D because it's easy to use, but if you don't use it on a regular base , (which counts for every other program) you forget the basics.

well, this sort of thing happens all the time. When I first started out working with PC's ('85), it was a lot looser then.  You taught yourself, and learned packages gradually.

As enough of a knowledge base develops, they figure that you should know 'the basics'. You probably were supposed to learn Maya at your last job (yeah, right..;), or at school.

As things get more complicated, they also get more stratified. Things get to the point I call 'rotojobs', because the only person with all the qualifications was the guy who just left it..;) You know, the " need 5 years Autocad, Maya, Lightwave, Rhino experience each, know Perl, CSS and XML, Quark Express, Ventura Publisher (psyche! I actually used to use that..;), know all Photoshop programs,have 10 years experience in the binary language of Batchi...;) you know the drill..;)

If you check out the 'Brit' mags, they basically are saying the same thing; if you read them waiting for your copy of Cinema 4 or Poser 3 (yada yada) to load, they'll tell you what the industry as a whole is looking for.

Bottom line; it just seems that folks starting out can't get a break. It gets to the point you have to shell out a wad o' dough just to get to the starting line. I hope things work out for you..I just wish I had the imagination to do the stuff y'all can do sometimes..;)

I'm glad that as a autonome draftsman I can make my own standards.  Although I've to reckon with my clients wishes, most of them are only interested in the results and not the tools I use.

OK, after rading most of these posts in this thread I find it difficult that most people don’t understand the requirements of the upper CG world.

First, there’s no way you can compare Poser to any of the higher end 3D programs. Yes, it has its peculiarities just as most 3D programs but it simply doesn’t compare with high end products. In Poser you are very limited and everything is confined to the morph dials in order to create your differences. In most high-end programs, you should be able to control all aspects of your character.

Mind you, millions of dollars have been spent to achieve the utmost results and Poser just doesn’t cut it when it comes to realism from the cinematic perspective. I think most people in a sane mind can come to that conclusion. This is not to say you cannot develop such a system. Yes, images from far away are fine…more intense figures…I think Poser hardly fulfills that area of cinema graphics, not at its present stage and when it manages to do so, most of us won’t be able to afford it.

So, let’s be real from a board of Directors stand point that make such aspirations possible (multimillion dollars worth); I was a Director of graphics for a certain corporation and I must tell you, they need to be competitive and in line with the most up to date software otherwise, why invest?

well, many production movies companies use their own software and sure they have what they are looking for, the top programs have more tools, they have  quicker render engine than free or cheap ones , but all these things and many others don't mean that a little company or some artist cannot use Poser with other free tools to make a profesional look work, I am sure that, with time, it will be posible.

The thing we must asking is if  price differences are justified.

'nuther thing about software is that by the time you and your employers master it, there's this new version, that they just "HAVE" to have.  Not because it does a better job, but that their clients will be impressed by it.  "Don't go to ABC animation.... they only use Maya 6, we have Maya 8'.  It's like that guitar amp in Spinal Tap that goes up to 11, "It's one more."  Even when you look at movies done in Maya, softimage, and 3Ds, the so-called high end packages, you see a lot of artifacting.  This is why these packages are popular in Sci fi and Fantasy (In space, no one can see your jaggies).

In my Artist Bio, when I submit to festivals and distribution, I always mention that I am self taught as no respectible art schools would have anything to do with me.  I take that as a source of pride.  so should anybody else.  You shouldn't have to pay great amounts of cash just to have permission to create what is in your heart, your soul.

but that's just me.

The point is don't go into a CG Studio job interview bragging about how you use Poser. You'll always be laughed at. I

First off I have to say that I'm in a Maya class and although the curve is fairly steep I am keeping up and loving it. It will probably steal me away from Poser, but I still believe Poser to be a valuable application and would never laugh at someone for what tools they use. First night in class we had to stand up and tell a bit about ourselves. One guy about 20 stands up and tells everyone he wants to learn Maya because he is "using Poser and it sucks". Surprised me....I've made thousands of dollars using Poser and intend to make more.  At any rate, he never came back after the first class, and no, I don't know why.  I bought the unlimited version of Maya for $420 delivered to my door and was just offered an upgrade for $1000 from the company so it really isn't out of reach.

 I was also raised poor, I don't blame it on any administration, my folks were drunks and that's the way it was. I left school at 14 but still managed to get my nursing degree. So when folks talk about this country and pretty much blame the president for their circumstances I tend to get a bit edgy. Don't take what a few folks have to say about America and say you like to hear about our country. I for one wouldn't live anywhere else...not that the countries I've visited are bad, I just love my country and I am loyal to it. Enough to have joined the USAF and served my time willingly. No administration is perfect, and if you don't like the one you have get out and vote in someone else. Sorry I will now get off of my soapbox and go back to my project for school.

Ridiculing an interviewee is contemptible. And consider yourself lucky you did NOT get a job with a company that rewards that kind of nastiness.

Marque --
A lot of us grew up poor and fixed that. And many of those lucky few resent a government that is devoting enormous energy to seeing it never happens again. But yeah, vote, preferably absentee or at least paper alternate, so Diebold doesn't vote for you.

Mick

Quote - The point is don't go into a CG Studio job interview bragging about how you use Poser. You'll always be laughed at. I

But if I brag that I wrote a plugin that let's you use Poser content directly in another 3D application - they wouldn't be laughing then, would they? :)

Well its different for coding of course, cause there its clear cut just how original and useful your work is. Its not like you took a bunch of premade libs and just linked to them for the plugin now is it ? (and if thats all you did, then you WILL be laughed at, no offense)

Plus TD types are always in short supply and you couldv been coding Warcraft machinama pron for the last 5 months and they would still give you a look see i bet :p

Quote - it doesn't matter which tools you use, it's the finished product that counts.

Exactly!

Another bias is a 2D graphic program. Everyone is "Adobe Photoshop!  Adobe Photoshop! Adobe Photoshop! Adobe Photoshop!"

You can do the same thing in PSP for 1/10th the price!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yet there are some people who are what I call "Adobe Snobs" who insist that unless it's done in Photoshop, the work isn't good, and anything done in another program such as PSP isn't serious work!  I even remember a thread here where someone said that you would be laughed out of the office if during an interview you said you used PSP instead of Adobe Photoshop.

My nephew is a freelance graphic artist/web designer who has contracted with companies that have worked on some major Hollywood movies.  He uses both PSP and Photoshop... about 50/50, and no one has laughed at his work!  And he's laughing all the way to the bank.

Like you said, it's not the tool that matters, but what you do with it. If the "tool" really mattered so much, some men would be in big trouble!!!!  :b_blush:  :b_funny:

Part of what a lot of people aren't "getting" is that there are a LOT of industry standards that are required for higher end CGI production.

In many studios you NEED Maya, Photoshop, (insert the package name here.).

Yeah, cheaper software is getting better, and in a lot of cases, you can work wonders with it, but just try to render higher resolution animations film frames in poser for a feature release.

(And wait for the next 5 years for it to render!)

I love poser. Its very cool for whatit does. I used to use paint shop pro a lot.. and then I learned additional tools in photoshop I can no longer live without.

Bottom line in studio work, is you need to work with the tools THEY use, and braging you are excellent in a hobbiest tool won't get you any props at all.

And laughing at someone who uses a hobbiest tool in any job application doesn't surprise me at all. Imagine someone applying for a high end commercial painting job, but presenting crayon drawings as their portfolio, when they expect to see acrylic photo real paintings.

Or imagine someone applying for a construction job, and bring in their lincoln log house.

When yu apply for a pro job, they expect you to be conversant with pro tools, and also to be presenting them in your portfolio. They also expect you to KNOW which tools are pro quality level, and discussing your expertise in them, not hobbiest tools.

Yeah, if you're applying for a job with a specific company then your portfolio should contain work done with whatever applications they use (and which they will expect you to be able to use to produce work that's up to their standards), but if you're self employed or a freelancer then you can use whatever gets the job done.

I went to a talk by a woman who works at Pixar - apparently they use some terrible ancient program that is hell to learn and use but it's such a part of their production pipeline/workflow that everyone has to learn it. I think most companies are like that in that they have an established pipeline and have already chosen Pshop, Maya or whatever as their production standard.

If you're going for a job at Company X, I guess the best thing to do is check what programs they use beforehand and customise your interview/portfolio with that knowlege in mind.

However, if you're going for a compositing job it shouldn't matter that you generated some 3D material in Poser as long as the compositing kicks arse. It did sound like the interviewer had issues with Poser.

Anyway, Human Resourses/Hirers & Firers are always big on Degrees, Skill Sets, Experience etc as evidenced on paper rather than end results I've found, rather than "what you can do with what you've got" - I think hiring creative people is always a bit of a risk and having a good Paper Trail covers their butts if they make a bad hiring decision.

As someone else said, those sorts of rules don't seem to apply to freelancing - that's where they seem to go on results, not what fancy program/equipment you use.

Agreed also that there is a certain "Stock " Poser look that outrages me if I see it make print...I think some graphic designers pop out quick illustrations with it when facing a nasty deadline - not much different to hitting a stock-photography archive in a similar situation I guess - appart from the skill-level of the stock material on display.

Cheers

Funny.. one of the biggest danish newspapers (for the brits: Think The Sun in danish) recently had a job ad where one of the REQUIREMENTS was that you knew how to use Poser.

Sure, they also mentioned that they used Max, but 've seen their illustrations on an almost daily basis and they're Poser. Poser 6 btw. They normally use the stock Poser figures and some custom made models (or car models, I don't know enough about those to say where they got them) but bottom line is, there are places where Poser is definately a PLUS!

Probably means the art director uses it - Infiltration!!! heheh

Hey anybody ever take a good look at the P4(Maybe P3) Dork?  Does'nt her look just like a Blue Man...

Poser is also used by "Scientific American" magazine on occasion.  3D World routinely has Poser this or that - right along side Maya, Max, et al.

Take a look at some scientific, medical, or 3D related papers (we're talking from universities or even research labs - sometimes even PhD work or theses).  You'll find Poser spattered all over the place (ACM and IEEE - membership has its benefits).  Of course, now we're not talking as much about production studios as other fields.

Poser is just a hobbyist toy - my a$$.  Of course, most of the interest lies in the Poser content sometimes for 'ghastly experiments'. ;)