Man - when they said Nurbs I thought they were making fun of eachother....  I went to get the popcorn...

now I don't know what's going on

When you use a modeler program, to build your own mesh/object, there are a few different approaches/tools you can use to do the assembly.  Each stylr offer a different type of control, over manipulating the mesh you're building.  If you do'nt use a modeler, you would'nt need to learn the differences, but Vertex, Spline, and Nurb(A.K.A Metaball, I think) are the main approaches.

:blink: Kawecki knows about the dark age of CG and all it's horrors!
Yeah I had totally forgotten about these old green or amber colored "graphic" displays. On the other hand I would say the start of vector graphics in relation with computers was with the eraly VG programs and later the Corel stuff that made them somewhat popular.

The holy vector that is used by electronic and CG apps comes from math. A vector is always a vector here, no matter which application or circuit element. There are also vectors in biology but that's a different topic.
The vector itself is nothing more than the expression of how informations are associated.
For example if you move your hand from left to right with 1 m/s, that's an vector applied to your hand. Basically traditional painters were the first who made vector graphics.

As described by the surface integral of vector fields it is possible to express a spheroid the surface is parametrized using a system of curvilinear coordinates.
**For Poser there are only 3 vectors ready for plug&play use. P-Node, N-Node and displacement.
I know, it's horrible boring for like 99.99% to read, but these P and N nodes get used much to seldom.

Description:
A P-vector is a tensor that get it's properties from the linear combinations of the exterior product of tangent vectors of P.**
Would be a lot easier if I could write formulas here or do some sketch, but this crappy editor won't let me be creative.
A tensor is an array that expresses an geometrical entity relative to an set of vectors. Like (1,5,4).
A tensor is of course much more than this, but not for Poser.
Linear combination is just a fancy word...
Let's assume you have scalars (a) and vectors (v). The linear combination would then be:
a1v1+a2v2+...a[n]v[n]. Nothing difficult. a1v1 means a1 MUL v1.

All this happens in an vector space V over the field K - to list the common used letters as we need them now for the exterior product... :lol:

Dunno where to start.
Let's say that the exterior algebra is a case of unital associative algebra - in case one wants to go deeper into this topic that is a point to start.
Unital (for engineers and some CS folks it's sometimes "unitary") means that the algebra must contain an multiplicative unit. This is also called "identity element" and has the property 1=1x=x1=x for all x of the algebra.
The exterior product is the multiplication of the exterior algebra and thus it is alternating on  vector space V and further a bilinear operator.

The P-vector is a concept where "P" comes from p-form. It is related to dual space vectors.

The N-vector... Is easier.
N is a (surface) normal. A surface normal is a 3-dimensional vector (x,y,z) that is perpendicular to an surface and based on it or on the tangent plane to an point p if the surface is not flat.
Dunno about the spelling of perpendicular... I mean 90° to the tangen plane or the surface.
The normals have no specified direction by default.  It can be 90°  to both sides or inward and outward.

Displacement needs not much explanation I think.
It's again a vector and the distance is not specified.
Displacement is if you move from A to B in n seconds. You can go whatever way you want as long as you are at B after n seconds. There is no information about the path in this vector.

There could be different descriptions about these topics of vector math. I have only written them down as I remember them from everyday use. No guarantee for nothing...

But after all it's like Casette said. Having fun with the figure is important. Not as important as learning math but it comes second to it and before anything else.

And I have not even written a word about NURBS yet...

Forgot a link from another post:
www.generative-modeling.org/

And found someone writing about NURBS:
www.generative-modeling.org/research/projects/NURBSUBS

And all other stuff:
www.generative-modeling.org/CGV/DigitalLibrary/publications/Papers

Hi Zarat

Quote- A tensor is of course much more than this, but not for Poser*. -End quote.*  Could you elaborate?  Thank you for the links

Cheers
Patorak

Quote - Coming from the game design world I know that the 'more polys, more realism' DAZ is trying to make all of us believe is far from the truth. I've worked with amazing realistic 3d models that were between 5000-8000 polys and 'posed' and animated much better and much more realistic then any of the high poly daz models. All that high polys are good for is charching a higher price. I'm only using low poly figures for Poser, but I'm not looking for realism in Poser at all,if I want realism, there are much better choices around then DAZ or Poser models.

There's a big difference between modelling for a specific gaming engine (where a specific smoothing algorithm is part and parcel of the deal), and making a mesh that often gets passed around between such diverse apps as Poser, D|S, Cararra, Bryce, 3DS Max, Lightwave, Maya, Blender, Shake, POV-Ray, Silo, Modo, Vue d' Esprit, and a whole host of other proggies, each with its own subtle smoothing methods (and some with none at all). Given that, more polys DOES equal better and more consistent results. If you want full-on realism like you describe with that kind of flexibility, you either build it yourself or you pay Turbosquid prices for one pre-built. Otherwise, high-poly and artistic skill is the next best thing. /P

Quote - But when I bought V4 I wasn't thinking 'how many polys she has?'. I was thinking on 'how many realism can I get with her?'

You dudes forget that not all we Poser users are programmers... :sad:

Heh - I used to do the programming thing for a living, and I'll be damned if I even think of caring what the polycount of a mesh happens to be nowadays. OTOH, it's nice to have a dual-proc Mac with enough horsepower to not have to care... ;) I stopped worrying about counting tris, quads, polys, half-edges and vertices when I went back to being a sysadmin. /P

.......which all goes back to what I said earlier in the thread, not to mention the answer to the title question of this thread.  It's the LOOK of the model (or the way that the model can be made to look) that makes it "so popular".

It's not the polycount.  It's not even the JCM's.

The average Poser user couldn't care less about those things -- although such matters are of intense interest to modelers.  And perhaps to some animators.

Come up with a good enough model -- and maybe make a bundle.  But only fellow-modelers/programmers/etc. -- along with a few wannabes -- will care about the way that you actually made the figure.  The blueprints underneath V4's skin won't and don't market the figure to the average Poser addict.

But the right type of renders will.

(Frankly, I don't know why that's so hard to grasp............)

I gotta admit, although it may be easy to use vector apps to do 2D toons, it sounds like pure gibberish suggesting vectors are somehow relevant to poser users or poser models. the very attraction of poser is that it requires the least technical knowledge of any current 3D app IMVHO.

Yep.

Although there are individuals out there who consider Poser to be w-a-y-y-y-y too technical to understand, not to mention to actually use.

I've seen such opinions/admissions expressed on forums elsewhere.

Holly Polygon! Some nurbs vertices are getting awfully noisy around here!

Angelouscuitry.

You can get some of C4D's manuals here

http://www.maxon.net/pages/download/documentation_e.html

All the app's have demos and manuals.

But Metaballs and Nurbs are two deferent tools.

All apps do not have Nurbs or Splines.

Professor Zarat

Thanks for the info and kool links :)

XENOPHONZ

Don't Jessie,Sydney look as good as Vicky ?

I am not convinced if some one modeled a character that was a absolute 10 would be any where near as popular as Vicky.

Miss Nancy

It is alot easier / faster to load a Poser Mesh in Poser that is all ready modeled,textured,morphed,rigged.

then doing all that ya self.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Oh well...

The usual "I'm proud that I can afford to be ignorant" argument.

Sigh.

It's of course completely bull.

If you use a tool, then you should at least have a basic grasp of how it works.
Like, when you have a drivers license, you should at least be able to change a tire, know how to check oil and ATF fluid, and how to change a fuse or a light bulb.

If your only reaction to shoddy craftmanship (And non-optimized meshes ARE shoddy craftmanship, be it EF's bloated geometry or DAZ' bloated cr2's), is to shrug your shoulders and to buy a more powerfull computer, then of course you will get exactly  those meshes you deserve.
Because that's what capitalist ventures usually do:
Trying to maximize the bottomline by minimizing the effort.
Or in other words: Producing the crappiest product that is still sellable.

This apathy is really disgusting.

Do you buy a car just because you like it's shape ?
Or do you ALSO check it's performance, read magazines with road tests, and compare it's specs with cars from other makers ?
:rolleyes:

No wonder that with this attitude Poser keeps being the laughingstock of the CGI world.

Thank god I spent my time LEARNING instead of just CONSUMING, so I can do the work myself that DAZ and EF SHOULD have done long ago.

That's why my meshes look and bend better than your meshes.

I've seen some Jessie and Sydney renders which looked very nice.  But Jessie and Sydney have one big disadvantage (outside of other, more technical matters).  And that big disadvantage stems from the fact that figures like Jessi and Sydney are playing catch-up to Victoria's overwhelming momentum in the Poser market.  Once that type of momentum and brand loyalty have been established: then it can be very, very difficult for competitors to overcome it.  If they ever can.

Plus -- and I know that all of this is a matter of pure taste (but the deep, mysterious secret of the matter is that the personal taste of the vast majority is the 'X-factor' which creates market popularity) -

......Victoria -- or at least characters created for Victoria -- have the 'supermodel' thing going for them.  And that's what sells Victoria.  Now this is a fact which has often been bemoaned in the forums in the past.....and all sorts of painfully contorted reasoning has been propounded in an attempt to explain away what in reality is a very simple-to-understand phenomenon.  It's not complicated.  Really, it isn't.

I think that the real problem here is that the taste of the majority doesn't happen to match the taste of some.  And those 'some' -- in a few cases -- are inclined to complain about the fact that the majority doesn't have the same taste that they do.  So.......we hear statements which imply things such as:

"If people out there were really smart and intelligent ((the way that I am)), then they'd all do things the way that I think that they ought to do them.  Then they'd like what I like -- and not the silly stuff that they all seem to be buying now.  No: they'd all be really smart and hard-working -- like me.  Not stupid and lazy like they are now.  Then they'd all use figure 'X'.  Not figure 'Y'"

For whatever reason, such matters seem to bother some individuals to no end.  So they gripe about it constantly in the forums.

Why people can't just let others enjoy what they enjoy -- without attacking them, and without making subtle or not-so-subtle hints about those other people's relative lack of intelligence and/or personal discipline for choosing to use one mesh over another.......I suppose that human nature is what it is.

BTW - for anyone who's interested -- I have Lightwave, AutoCAD 2008, Vue Infinite, Adobe Photoshop -- etc., etc., etc..

And I both use and enjoy Poser.  Laughingstock or not.

As a tool, Poser is especially useful to people who consider stories to be more important than polycounts.  I.E. -- the Poser images are used to help move a story.  Poser can do this task quickly and efficiently.

If someone happens to have both the skill and the gobs of time needed to model their own human figures in whatever high-end app you choose -- then great!  Have at it!  I like to tinker, too.  And I do.

But for an individual whose primary focus......and whose primary goal.........is to write a story line with 3D illustrations used to compliment the story: then Poser can be just the ticket.

Personally, I don't want to spend 3-4 months modeling before I start to write.

How intelligent does one have to be to chose quality over crap ?

And even if people don't have the expertise themselves, what harm is it to listen to those who have ?
So they can make a truly informed decision.

Where did I say that people should model everything themselves ?
I'm using Poser because I don't want to do exactly that.

But all those "story-tellers" would certainly enjoy telling their story's a lot more if they could use a figure that not only looks good, but also bends like a real human and is optimized enough to not need hour long render times for a single still picture.

But I guess that's human nature, too.

Some follow others, and some lead.

What do they mean

NOTE this is not a merchant resource and may not be used as such

for

RM Alexa A3

at

http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=55811#

I know some of the free stuff reads not for commercial use but I thought any thing I $$$ for was for commercial use ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

"The holy vector that is used by electronic and CG apps comes from math .... snip"
I'm so releaved to have come into CG at an age when you don't need any math knowledge or degrees in geekology to get anything done,tools these days are focused around the artist who creates with them & fortunately we dont need to know the technical in's & out's of vector math to know what we're doing.

spoken as a highschool dropout who's worst subject was math :-)
Cheers
Stefan

Quote - How intelligent does one have to be to chose quality over crap ?

You seriously misspelled "wealthy" up there. > Quote -

But all those "story-tellers" would certainly enjoy telling their story's a lot more if they could use a figure that not only looks good, but also bends like a real human and is optimized enough to not need hour long render times for a single still picture.

You do know the difference between joint params and actual skeletal rigging, right? PS: ...a "bloated .cr2" doesn't mean jack to a figure exported to 3DS or Maya... your polycounts and mesh are in the .obj file that the .cr2 usually references. ;) /P

"You seriously misspelled "wealthy" up there."

I'm not wealthy.
That's why I can't afford a 4GB+ RAM machine.
And that's why I made my own LowRez versions of MIKI and Sydney.
Which look as good, render as good, and pose as good as the originals.
But render a lot faster, and are lot more fun to work with.

"You do know the difference between joint params and actual skeletal rigging, right? "

If you refer to the weightmapped style rigging that the "professional" apps do, yes.

But with the advent of the P7 MorphBrush Poser style rigging can finally see eye to eye with weightmapped rigging.
As the Poser rigging has now become completely manipulable, there will be NO more quality differences between both styles in the future.

That's also why magnet bloated cr2's like V4's are already obsolete.
Correction morphs are infinitifely more adaptable and efficient than any number of JSM's.

But if the majority will rather support V4 because it's so damned CONVENIENT, then nothing will change, and M4, A4, and the future Daz meshes will all suffer from the same problems V4 does.

I'm actually pretty happy with the way I modified the "old" unimeshes for my personal use, but how much better , how much more realistic Poser meshes could be if someone with real resources would try to do a real quality job that incorporates all the latest advancements in Poser tech.

"PS: ...a "bloated .cr2" doesn't mean jack to a figure exported to 3DS or Maya... your polycounts and mesh are in the .obj file that the .cr2 usually references. ;)"

And your point is ?
I'm NOT against high rez meshes. (As long as they don't have ridicoulus dense eyes or teeth like MIKI/Sydney)
I'm against stuffing 69 magnets into a cr2 plus a ton of ERC-dials like DAZ did with V4.

I have a feeling you don't really understand what I'm talking about ?

Quote - Oh well...

If you use a tool, then you should at least have a basic grasp of how it works....

....That's why my meshes look and bend better than your meshes.

Ahhh. Gotcha!  
You mean like... if one wishes to socialize in a community, one should have a basic grasp on how to get along with others and promote a positive community like atmosphere.

Quote - How intelligent does one have to be to chose quality over crap ?

It all depends upon how one chooses to define 'crap'.  Or 'intelligence'.

'Intelligence' is often defined (by some) as "agreeing with me".

Quote - And even if people don't have the expertise themselves, what harm is it to listen to those who have ?
So they can make a truly informed decision.

I don't quite follow you here.  Where did anyone say -- or even remotely imply -- that there was anything wrong with "listening to those who do".  That's not the objection.  The objection has to do with the patronizing attitude which some self-appointed "authorities" carry along with their vaunted opinions vis-a-vis the thiings that constitute "crap".

Quote - Where did I say that people should model everything themselves ?
I'm using Poser because I don't want to do exactly that.

Great!  We agree, then!  And we are even using the same methodology. 

Quote - But all those "story-tellers" would certainly enjoy telling their story's a lot more if they could use a figure that not only looks good, but also bends like a real human and is optimized enough to not need hour long render times for a single still picture.

Then build a better mousetrap for us.  Everyone will start flocking to your door.

Quote - But I guess that's human nature, too.

What's human nature?

Quote - Some follow others, and some lead.

Leads what?  Or leads who?  And to where?

Your arm must be getting awfully sore.  Reaching around to pat yourself on the back so much surely puts a severe strain on the muscles.

Quote - > Quote - Oh well...

If you use a tool, then you should at least have a basic grasp of how it works....

....That's why my meshes look and bend better than your meshes.

 

Ahhh. Gotcha!  
You mean like... if one wishes to socialize in a community, one should have a basic grasp on how to get along with others and promote a positive community like atmosphere.

Oh, no........you're spoilin' all of the fun!  :biggrin:

"....promote a positive community like atmosphere."

Community ? What community ?

You see a community here ?

Wow, you must have really sharp eyes.

Sorry, I'm no aspiring merchant so I don't have to play nice nice with potential customers.
Nor do I have a gallery to get my ego stroked with lotz of hugz and kisses.
I don't even share the stuff I made publically, but rather with a few select friends who can really appreciate it.

So no, I don't try to "socialize" or "befriend" with anyone.
(I don't mind when it happens, though)

I'm just here to learn more about Poser from the few people left who share their knowledge and are worth listening to.
And  sometimes I amuse myself watching the usual forum drama and taunt those who deliberately choose to stay ignorant.

Oh, I just love watching self-important egos on display. :lol:

Quote - "How intelligent does one have to be to chose quality over crap ?"

It all depends upon how one chooses to define 'crap'.  Or 'intelligence'.

'Intelligence' is often defined (by some) as "agreeing with me".

Yawn, Sorry, Xeno, but I'm really not in the mood playing empty rhetoric games.<<

Quote - "And even if people don't have the expertise themselves, what harm is it to listen to those who have ?
So they can make a truly informed decision.
"

I don't quite follow you here.  Where did anyone say -- or even remotely imply -- that there was anything wrong with "listening to those who do".  That's not the objection.  The objection has to do with the patronizing attitude which some self-appointed "authorities" carry along with their vaunted opinions vis-a-vis the thiings that constitute "crap".

Patronizing ? Why is trying to inform people about alternatives patronizing ? But I'm sure you're right, after all, if there is someone who should be able to reckognize a patronizing attitude, it must be you. LOL.<<

Quote - "Where did I say that people should model everything themselves ?
I'm using Poser because I don't want to do exactly that."

Great!  We agree, then!  And we are even using the same methodology. 

Quote - "But all those "story-tellers" would certainly enjoy telling their story's a lot more if they could use a figure that not only looks good, but also bends like a real human and is optimized enough to not need hour long render times for a single still picture."

Then build a better mousetrap for us.  Everyone will start flocking to your door.

It takes more than just know-how to break DAZ de facto monopoly. You'd also need the technical and financial means to produce a ruly outstanding product and a full fledged hyp...err, advertising campaign.<<

Quote - "But I guess that's human nature, too."

What's human nature?

Oh, come on. Aren't you an expert for the lowets common denomina..I mean, "human nature" ?<<

Quote - "Some follow others, and some lead.
"

Leads what?  Or leads who?  And to where?

Your arm must be getting awfully sore.  Reaching around to pat yourself on the back so much surely puts a severe strain on the muscles.

Patting myself is less exhausting than constantly having to do  the cheerleading for DAZ.<<

Quote -
Wow, you must have really sharp eyes.

It's my new sony x-brite monitor, works like the rose colored glasses.

Quote -
So no, I don't try to "socialize" or "befriend" with anyone.

Well, darn, I was going to try and befriend you and bear hug you and pinch your cheeks blue every time I see you.

Quote - And  sometimes I amuse myself watching the usual forum drama and taunt those who deliberately choose to stay ignorant.

The ironic part is that your disdainful attitude towards socializing falls right into that 'deliberately ignorant' category. Did you ever hear a phrase, "it's not what you know, it's whom you know" 

Quote : Oh, I just love watching self-important egos on display.

Why am I not surprised to hear that from you ?

Then watch closely. Looking is free, but lessons are extra.
(Not that you would need any )

:tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2:

OK -- now we're getting somewhere.  We've now shown that this "problem" with certain figures -- at least on the part of some -- isn't truly a matter of technical issues.  Instead, at its base it's a matter of egos and personal disdain for others whom one regards as one's inferiors.

Elitism will tell.  It always does.

Quote - OK -- now we're getting somewhere.  We've now shown that this "problem" with certain figures -- at least on the part of some -- isn't truly a matter of technical issues.  Instead, at its base it's a matter of egos and personal disdain for others whom one regards as one's inferiors.

Elitism will tell.  It always does.

But, but , what I really wanna know is who gets to be the Judge?  Can I be the judhe, pleeez, oh, pleez, I really like to play with that cute little hammer... and then when I slam it, everyone pays attention to meeeee... meeeeee... weeeeeee   ;) 

And the judges robe makes me look skinny!!!

Connie, you are more than welcome to be the judge.  I hereby declare you to be the official judge of this entire matter. 

BTW - judge's robes make me look fat.  Now, if the robes had vertical stripes -- that might help.  Some.

QUOTE: "OK -- now we're getting somewhere.  We've now shown that this "problem" with certain figures -- at least on the part of some -- isn't truly a matter of technical issues.  Instead, at its base it's a matter of egos and personal disdain for others whom one regards as one's inferiors.

Elitism will tell.  It always does."

You were saying.... ?

:tt2:  :tt2:  :tt2:

Oh, I've never stated that you might not have made some valid points on the purely technical side of things, Joe.  That's never been the issue.  At least not in our particular one-on-one exchanges.  Our disagreements have shown themselves on a different level altogether.

If you want to talk about the technical points -- then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Hey -- I might even grant you some points.

No -- the true problem doesn't originate in the polys: no matter how the polys bend or turn.  The true problem comes from elsewhere.

Hi Everyone

Conniekat8,  how's the shoes coming along?  They look great so far.

Now everyone my question is this.  Would the Poser community accept a figure that has more bones for movement and mesh manipulation?  

Cheers
Patorak

patorak --

Yes, I believe that the Poser community would be interested in such a figure.  But it would help considerably if that figure had the right look upon completion.  And it would probably help if that figure had some sort of corporate sponsorship backing it up.

You are very likely to be one of the people who could do it, if I am judging you rightly.

Man a hole page of arguing, 

be nice if you all could answer my questions in between ya argument :)

"RM Alexa A3" it's a morph for A3

this statement

NOTE this is not a merchant resource and may not be used as such

I do not get ,make no since to me.it's A3 from DAZ.that merchants make anything and every thing for so I am lost.

The only thing I can think of is RM does not want any one using "RM Alexa A3" in there advertising renders for there close or something.

one would think if ya paid for something it would be for commercial use.

would not the statement NOTE this is not a merchant resource and may not be used as such

cost RM sales ?

http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=55811#

in free stuff it I easy to find the license agreement at the market place read me files do not always say for person use only or for personal and commercial.

one would think if ya paid for something it would be for commercial use.

If it does not say how do you know ?

At DAZ market place I do not see where it tells you what kind of license ya get either.

So how do you know what kind of license your get ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

I think another reason they are so popular is because DAZ haz a boat load of content to support their figures which cannot be matched yet
if someone create a better "mousetrap" unless they can match DAZ type support they are not going to go far no matter how good it is. users would rather use a less then perfect figure if you can get whatever content either free or for pay they may need, then to use a perfect figure with little to no content
with DAZ figures you can get just about anything you need to produce an image where as with other figures (Clark, Gloria, Open source for example) you would have to adjust to fit a 3rd party content not made for the figure, which in some cases do not work as well, or make it yourself, which most either cannot or do not do. 
however Apollo is the exception to the rule because this figure started with enough content that if you can texture or manipulate trans maps you can diversify what he came with

First off I only have poser 5 that I am not experienced with rigging in Poser.

This is all from my experience from rigging in TrueSpace and C4D.

patorak

I am guess your talking about putting the extra bones out side the joints sorta like weights to make them bend better ?

We use to do this in app's that did not have weights.

XENOPHONZ

The lower the polycount the better it will bend with weightless rigs.

Extra bones around the joints help.

But there is a lot of trail and error with this.

The higher the polycount there more flaws it will have.

Cause rigs even with weights have limits.

Now if ya threw away the rigs and just used morphs to bend a character.

Poly count does not matter.

You have no limits.

Do not know how this would work in Poser yet.

You could do this in C4D 9 with Cactus Dans morphs plugs.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

The look would be the key.  I'm thinking along the lines of Judith by Giorgione.  What do you think?

Cheers

Patroak

Hi RorrKonn

Yep!

Cheers
Patorak

Quote - NOTE this is not a merchant resource and may not be used as such

I believe that means that you are not allowed to take pieces of the product (for example textures) and create a figure of your own, repack the textures and sell your figure.

With merchant resource packs you can do just that, take pieces and use them in creating a package of your own, to sell.

[kitty slams the gavel  Whew, that one was easy to settle ;)]

Hi RorrKonn

Has anyone studied the edgelooping on the Poser figures?

Cheers
Patorak

Quote - Hi XENOPHONZ

The look would be the key.  I'm thinking along the lines of Judith by Giorgione.  What do you think?

Cheers

Patroak

Hey Patorak --

She looks great to me, personally.  But I have eclectic tastes.  For good or for ill -- the Poser market tends to prefer.......larger.  shrug  IMO, if your goal is to sell -- then it's best to go with what the market wants.  Otherwise, it's a labor of love.  Or a labor for a niche market -- which is a great thing, IMO.  I love niche figures & environments.  Without them, the Poserverse would be nothing but an endless series of pin-ups.

But I'm honest enough to admit that the pin-ups sell better.

Here's another thought:  an independent modeler might actually do better, sales-wise, with a 'niche' figure than they would by attempting to compete directly with V4.

I would seriously consider buying such a figure as you propose.

Interesting choice of subject.  From the Apocrypha, no less.  I've read the story.

{The type of stuff that I'd personally be likely to model (machinery, architecture, equipment) -- will probably never have as much of a market as V4 character packages do.}

Hi XENOPHONZ

I had considered Lybian Sybil as well.  Anyway,  how would you like to beta test her when she's done

Cheers
Patorak

Hey patorak --

Sure -- I'd be more than happy to help you out.  And I am flattered to be asked.

3D Product testing is something that I do.  I don't know if you were aware of that.

I'll be glad to do what I can to assist you.

Edited to add:

I am assuming that she's going to be a Poser figure.  I am not a skilled organic modeler for apps like LW.  My modeling interest lies more in the inorganic direction --

Hi XENOPHONZ

Sounds great.  I'll im you when she's ready to be tested.  Look for it around june.  Although,  I'm thinking of doing a bust with facial rigging for Poser to go along with the figure.  If I do the bust I could have that to you at the end of may.  I'll make the bust a freebie,  but I would like it tested anyways

Cheers
Patorak

Great, patorak.  We'll plan on doing it !

You can contact me via site mail here on the website anytime.  I'll also send you my contact e-mail later tonight (US East Coast time) via site mail.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Conniekat8

Went to the market place and searched for merchant resource and boom lots of helpful time saving stuff very kool,Thanks for the info.

patorak

I would think a lot of artist mostly modelers of cloths is aware of the unimesh topology.

I know since I started making close for A3 I have noticed the topology alot more.

always thought it was odd to use the same mesh for males and females thou.

not to say one is right one is wrong but my character meshes topology is not like the unimesh.

but when ya make cloths they say to follow the character meshes topology so the cloths will follow better.

but getting a topology that bends well with rigs is trail and error

and hips are a real pain you just can not get a groin modeled correctly and then get it to bend 130 degree with out crossing vertices.

aggravates me to no end.

the only answer is to model 2 meshes one standing one setting witch is not a answer anyone want to hear.

one day I might make a Poser character for now I am just learning Poser with cloths.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Hi XENOPHONZ

It's a deal then!

Hi RorrKonn

I think it is because the hip is also the parent bone. 

Cheers
Patorak