There's a rant I want to make.  And I know several of these things have been said before, but I'd like them in one place.

After I received Poser 7 when it came out, I started on a complete re-install of my downloaded content.  Still haven't gotten through half the V3 stuff yet, but I've been doing it slowly to organize the folders in (to me) a rational manner) in different runtimes, checking the references in each zip and exe to make sure the pointers are correct, so on and so forth.  And after you do a few hundred of them in a short period of time, you tend to notice the things that bother you.  It was in this spirit that the following was inspired.

Rule 1: You Are Not the Most Important Person In the World.

Naming the readme file "Readme" sort of assumes that it's the only file I'm going to have with that name, doesn't it?  Now, while I like your stuff (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it and downloaded it), that doesn't mean that you're the only person in the world whose product I'm going to buy, and as such, so that your Readme isn't overwritten by their Readme, wouldn't it make sense to give your Readme file, heck, your Readme folder, a name which logically connects it to the product you want me to read about?

Rule 2: I Am Not A Mindreader

In a similar note, if you want me to read your readme files, it might behoove you to place said files in a location where I would expect to find them.  Buried in the library folders is not where I expect to find them.  Placing them outside the Runtime folder, that's logical.

Rule 3: I Am Not Using Your Computer

Your Geometries folder might rest happily in C:Documents and SettingsuserMyPoserStuff.  Mine doesn't.

Rule 4: I Am Still Not Using Your Computer

Which makes it rather difficult when the product I bought from you includes a reference to a reflection map or a texture that's not part of your product but is on your computer.  And not mine.

Rule 5: I Will Decide What's Important on My Computer, Not You

Quick Quiz:  Naming a file "! ! ! ImNumberOne.pz2" to get it to the top of the list in the library is
a) Dumb
b) Annoying
c) Unnecessary, since the folder it's in should have a unique name anyway, right?
d) Make me want to track down the merchant and beat them over the head with a keyboard
e) All of the above

Now that isn't to say that using the exclamation mark to get something to the top a file isn't justified.  I like having the character inj and rem files right at the top.  But having EVERY SINGLE FILE in that character's folder having multiple exclamation marks in front of it is stupid.

Rule 6: Remember That I Might Actually Buy Other Stuff From You

So when all your mat files or your pose files for all your products are named creatively, you know, like "01.pz2" and "02.pz2", and all your folders for different products also have the exact same name, one wonders if you only ever want any single person to only ever get a single one of your products so that they don't overwrite each other.

Rule 7: Just Because You Can Use Really Long Names Doesn't Mean You Have To

I mean, it's not that I don't get enjoyment out of looking at pose files and trying to figure out which one I want to use.  Who wouldn't want to joy of seeing two thumbnails in the library with the exact same truncated name underneath them and guessing which one is the one you want to use?

Rule 8: My Textures Folder Is Possibly More Complicated Than Yours

":skinbody.jpg" might be a perfectly valid reference in a cr2 or a mat file  for your apparently near-empty textures folder.  However, given that I'm likely to have about 3,122 files with that name, your folder in the Texture directory doesn't have a name I can easily find, your readme file is located in the Hands folder and doesn't tell me what your folder holding the textures is anyway, do not be surprised if people get somewhat annoyed.  See also Rules 3 and 4.

Can I get an  Alleluia??

I personally dont think this topic can be repeated enough until those dang readmes are named something other than readme!

You forgot Folder nesting though.  So.....

Rule #9:

We DO NOT want to have to click 10 times to get to your content!  DO NOT put it in SeansStuff>stuffIsell>makesmebigbucks>atrenderosity>TEXTURES
kthx

I agree. I have purchased over 1000 items in the RMP alone and lately there are many mistakes in the code that I have to fix myself. I am still waiting on a hair fix for weeks. I fixed it myself in Crimson editor. The files pointed to the merchant's E:/ drive. It took me not even 10 minutes if that with search and replace to fix it. Why is it taking this merchant WEEKS to fix it? I should not have to fix items I PAID REAL MONEY FOR! Freebies are free and can have mistakes. Not purchased items I am sorry. Daz is even worse. Their readmes are messed up at least 30% of the time. renderosity is supposed to have testers for products. There is at least one tester who is missing these mistakes. Also poor English in the readmes.
I always rename my readmes to "Alice" or whatever it happens to be and keep them in a Poser readme folder on my desktop. it really helps.

*Rule 1: You Are Not the Most Important Person In the World.

Naming the readme file "Readme" sort of assumes that it's the only file I'm going to have with that name, doesn't it?  Now, while I like your stuff (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it and downloaded it), that doesn't mean that you're the only person in the world whose product I'm going to buy, and as such, so that your Readme isn't overwritten by their Readme, wouldn't it make sense to give your Readme file, heck, your Readme folder, a name which logically connects it to the product you want me to read about?

*if thats a Rendo brokered product, don't blame the vendor. blame Rendo. Merchants here are required to use the same readme and in the same location or the product is failed.

Good topic and nicely done, I'd like to add one: 
Putting a name in front of "runtime" in the zip file is really annoying because it doesn't go in the runtime, it goes someplace else so with these I have to unzip to a temp folder before copying them to my runtime.

How about this. Let's start a list of "banned from now on" generic texture names. I'll get it started with:

wood.jpg
chrome.jpg
gold.jpg
silver.jpg
rock.jpg
stone.jpg
wall.jpg
floor.jpg
ceiling.jpg
house.jpg
oldwood.jpg
silverref.jpg
silverreflect.jpg
silverrefl.jpg
brass.jpg
translash.jpg
eyereflect.jpg
brick.jpg
fetchrome.jpg
chromemap.jpg

Anyone care to join in?

Quote - *Rule 1: You Are Not the Most Important Person In the World.

Naming the readme file "Readme" sort of assumes that it's the only file I'm going to have with that name, doesn't it?  Now, while I like your stuff (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it and downloaded it), that doesn't mean that you're the only person in the world whose product I'm going to buy, and as such, so that your Readme isn't overwritten by their Readme, wouldn't it make sense to give your Readme file, heck, your Readme folder, a name which logically connects it to the product you want me to read about?

*if thats a Rendo brokered product, don't blame the vendor. blame Rendo. Merchants here are required to use the same readme and in the same location or the product is failed.

No, they need the same licence file.  Which I don't care about (since they are all the same).

I just checked assorted Renderosity downloads and there doesn't seem to be a rigidly adhered to system for naming the product readmes or where they are located.

I agree with most, but not all, of the points raised above. 

Folder structure: it may make SENSE to use a nested folder structure. For example, I've made a couple of free V4 clothes recently. Their geometries go in :runtime:geometries:svdl:v4clothing:
In my opinion, that's a logical folder structure. I start it with my screen name, since I'm the only one using that screen name (at least on 'rosity), I can be fairly sure that the subfolders I place within the "svdl" geometries folder will not be overwritten by someone else's stuff. Rather important, I'd say.
I plase readmes in :readme:svdl:productname. Why? Since some freebies contain more than one text file - a license file, special instuctions in sort of a manual, plus the standard readme... Again, I'd say that is logical.
The same goes for the libraries. Poses, props, characters, they go in ":svdl:product name", sometimes with a product category in between (useful for a V2+V3+V4 version of a product). 
I don't think my name is that important. But it will allow the user to easily select the folder branch and move it to the desired location, without having to hunt down several folders in the character or pose libraries.
Same goes for textures. 

So I do not agree with the call for "no subfolders". There are very good reasons to use a folder structure. 

But I do agree that the folder structure should be set up with the comfort of the end user in mind. It's not meant for egotrippery.

The complaint about the paths pointing outside the runtime structure is something I, as a content provider, COMPLETELY agree with. While investing in a tool like Correct Reference may be a bit much (well, $30 isn't that bad) for a freebie provider, I'd suggest that commercial products should be run through CR or a similar tool before submitting to testing on the MP. 

Everything I make is freestuff. But that's not a reason to release substandard stuff. A freebie provider should strive for the quality that is expected of commercial products, not only in the mesh/texture/pose/morph/whatever, but also in the setup.
That way, if the freebie provider ever considers entering the MP he/she a) already has a habit of correctly packaging the goods, making it easier to pass the MP testing procedures and b) already has a reputation of making good quality stuff with correct setup procedures, increasing customer trust - and sales.

Quote - How about this. Let's start a list of "banned from now on" generic texture names. I'll get it started with:

wood.jpg
chrome.jpg
gold.jpg
silver.jpg
rock.jpg
stone.jpg
wall.jpg
floor.jpg
ceiling.jpg
house.jpg
oldwood.jpg
silverref.jpg
silverreflect.jpg
silverrefl.jpg
brass.jpg
translash.jpg
eyereflect.jpg
brick.jpg
fetchrome.jpg
chromemap.jpg

Anyone care to join in?

There's nothing wrong with doing that.  The problem comes with the references in the poser files.

If silverreflect.jpg is referenced like this
**:Runtime:textures:productfolder:gold.jpg
**There's no problem.  If it's referenced like this:

**:gold.jpg
**Then it's utterly useless.  Especially if it isn't a generic reflection file but a specific texture file.

Quote - I agree with most, but not all, of the points raised above. 

Folder structure: it may make SENSE to use a nested folder structure. For example, I've made a couple of free V4 clothes recently. Their geometries go in :runtime:geometries:svdl:v4clothing:
In my opinion, that's a logical folder structure. I start it with my screen name, since I'm the only one using that screen name (at least on 'rosity), I can be fairly sure that the subfolders I place within the "svdl" geometries folder will not be overwritten by someone else's stuff. Rather important, I'd say.

In fact, in my very non-humble opinion, this is EXACTLY what content providers should be doing.  Your stuff (and I have a fair bit of it) is a relative joy to work with because it's logically organized and, if I want to move stuff around, easy to locate.

"If silverreflect.jpg is referenced like this
:Runtime:textures:productfolder:gold.jpg"
I think you meant, ":Runtime:textures:productfolder:silverreflect.jpg"

(See how easy it is to make a reference mistake)

It's still a problem. Just becuase you make a proper reference in your poser file, doesn't mean that some other bozo won't use the exact same file name and not have a correct reference. This means that Poser will go searching for his file and probably find your's instead. The only way to avoid that is to use unique file names. Hence, my call to stop using generic names. "Floor" is my #1 culprit

smallspace: you're correct. That's why the geometry of the V4 Warrior stuff is called V4WarriorCape.obj, V4WarriorPlates.obj etc.

An example too is naming your character the same name as another current release at another major store or even here at RR. I bought Grace for V4 from Daz and Grace at 3dcommune by a friend I know from here. All the files got mixed up. I would hope merchants would be aware of current releases at all major Poser stores. I certainly would not name a character "Alice", but maybe "Alice Ann" to avoid file mixup with Aery Soul's Alice.                      

This is one of those subjects that gets rolled out every so often, everyone agrees but nothing ever gets done about it, the main problem is the providers themselves, they each have their own ideas on what THEY want to do.

What should happen is every store & site with freebie space should subscribe to a set standard & anything that doesn't comply should be sent back to be forced into shape.

That's in an ideal world of course, here in the real world it ain't gonna happen.

I agree with all of the above.

However - please note that the mistakes that were pointed out such as absolute file paths - and generically named textures for that matter - should be found by testers and never seen by paying customers.

Vendors should first have their product looked at by at least 1 beta tester, then store staff.  How both consistently miss these simple errors that they should be programmed to look for is beyond me.

Also, unless their policy has changed, those annoying !!!'s are banned over at 3D Commune - a product will fail if any library folder has special characters. 

Quote - "If silverreflect.jpg is referenced like this
:Runtime:textures:productfolder:gold.jpg"
I think you meant, ":Runtime:textures:productfolder:silverreflect.jpg"

(See how easy it is to make a reference mistake)

It's still a problem. Just becuase you make a proper reference in your poser file, doesn't mean that some other bozo won't use the exact same file name and not have a correct reference. This means that Poser will go searching for his file and probably find your's instead. The only way to avoid that is to use unique file names. Hence, my call to stop using generic names. "Floor" is my #1 culprit

Actually, that screw-up was because I wanted to use a different example (and missed the previous line).  If something is called silverreflect, you're probably safe using any silver reflection type map.  "Gold" on the other hand may be a reflection may, it may be a gold coloured uniform, it might be a slightly tanned Caucasian skin.

Lululee, a merchant here, even suggested I become a tester because I find so many mistakes. Well, RR told me they didn't need anymore testers. If RR pays the testers, then they need to fire some of them. If the testers are volunteers, then I suppose we must forgive them.

How about this as well. 

Please be so kind as to remove all "Thumbs.db" files from your zip before offering it to the public.

What I would like to see is continuity of naming the folders.

When I first started I did what everyone does, use the main Poser runtime and just install or unzip files to it.  I was in tears when trying to find related content because within each folder in the library, the folders for that content were all named something different.

It doesn't help me one bit to have a folder inside the character folder called "red dynamic dress", while the MAT POSE files for that dress are in something called "JaneDoe MATS"!   I know you want your name on a folder or two, but please, save that for the textures and geometries folders....and please, if you do that, then please package each of your product texture and geometry files into separate folders so that they don't overwrite files from another one of your products.

it sounds like this is more a litany to the failures of the testing process. I reckon that only a few of the merchants will read this thread. I reckon that only a few of the beta testers will read it. they may only volunteer as testers to get free items, and not to do serious problem-fixing. if a marketplace is allowing defective products to be sold, it's the market's responsibility to make things right with the customer IMVHO. perhaps they should drop the independent beta-testers, and make certain all their testers are employees who are accountable - e.g. they can get demoted or fired if they play stupid.

The major problem is that there are two different mindsets colliding.

There's the "I'm an artist, and I want to do things my way!" mindset.  Which is perfectly legitimate.

Then there's the "I'm a buyer/user, I want convenience" mindset.  Also legit.

The problem is the people supplying content who think too much like the former and not enough like the latter.

I run into the same problem when I review amateur fiction.  I see people going "well, okay, my spelling sux and i Use random Capitilization: and i dont follw any grammatical rules known to humankinded, but i'm writing a story and you should only look at that."  My reply being then "Well, if you want other people to read your work but you don't care about following some basic rules to make it easier to read, I don't care enough to bother reading it at all."

In a perfect world (that is, one in which I was unquestioned ruler of all), products would be organized as follows:

ReadMe
    Merchant  
        ProductName folder
            product readme files
Runtime
    Geometries
        Merchant
            ProductName
                product obj files
    Libraries
        Regular library folders
            Merchant
                ProductName
                    product files
                    AddOn folders*
    Textures
        Merchant
            ProductName
                product textures
                AddOn folders*
               
For the AddOn folders (marked by asterisks), what I mean are merchant addons to an existing product.  For example, if I made mats and textures for the Daz Morphing Fantasy Dress and sold them, my texture directory layout might look something like this:

    Pose
        MATs
            DAZ
                MorphingFantasyDress
                    KeithsAmazingMFD

    Textures
        DAZ
            Clothing (if organized like this, otherwise move stuff up a level by removing this one)
                MorphingFantasyDress
                    KeithsAmazingMFD

Doing it this way means it's a lot easier to find things.  I know all the MAT files from everyone making stuff for the MFD will be in the MFD directory structure.  If I want to move the dress from, say, the V3 runtime to a dedicated DAZ clothing runtime, it's easy to find all the files and the add-on products that I've bought.

Quote - > Quote - *Rule 1: You Are Not the Most Important Person In the World.

Naming the readme file "Readme" sort of assumes that it's the only file I'm going to have with that name, doesn't it?  Now, while I like your stuff (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it and downloaded it), that doesn't mean that you're the only person in the world whose product I'm going to buy, and as such, so that your Readme isn't overwritten by their Readme, wouldn't it make sense to give your Readme file, heck, your Readme folder, a name which logically connects it to the product you want me to read about?

*if thats a Rendo brokered product, don't blame the vendor. blame Rendo. Merchants here are required to use the same readme and in the same location or the product is failed.

No, they need the same licence file.  Which I don't care about (since they are all the same).

I just checked assorted Renderosity downloads and there doesn't seem to be a rigidly adhered to system for naming the product readmes or where they are located.

then that has been changed since I was a merchant here. sorry for bothering you..

I think too much finger pointing would ensue were someone to come up with a list of venders who dont organize/name reasonably.  

But I might just start a list naming those who DO organize correctly- efficiently.    A better business bureau of sorts lol

Svdl would be on that list as I have had no issues with his system so far at all.  That nesting described was perfectly acceptable.  It's when folder names have absolutely nothing to do with thier content or to my knowledge creator.

Actually Keith .. I would hate your library structure. I want it by category, not merchant. For poses it is close to what I do but not exactly, etc. So even among systems you have people that would want it another way. I know some people don't want the merchant's name anywhere in the library (texture folder is possibly okay) so it is a toss up trying to please everyone and it is never going to happen.

Quote -

    Textures
        DAZ
            Clothing (if organized like this, otherwise move stuff up a level by removing this one)
                MorphingFantasyDress
                    KeithsAmazingMFD

Doing it this way means it's a lot easier to find things.  I know all the MAT files from everyone making stuff for the MFD will be in the MFD directory structure.  If I want to move the dress from, say, the V3 runtime to a dedicated DAZ clothing runtime, it's easy to find all the files and the add-on products that I've bought.

Unfortunately, even DAZ doesn't do this with all of its expansions :(

Great topic.  I applaud you Keith.

One last little complaint...and this is specific to certain real merchants who shall remain nameless. 

Certain merchants use the same textures over and over, yet don't have a single folder location for those common textures, but instead, choose to put all textures in separate folders just for each product. This means, that if I buy, say, 10 different products from one of those merchants, I wind up with 10 copies of the same textures in my runtime, eating up my hard drive space. Also, a beta tester testing a single one of those products is not going to find anything wrong with it.

Phew..! I am glad that none of the criticisms above apply to my products LOL

I too can't understand why the majority of vendors feel forced to name their readme's as plain old readme....

Rosity dosn't  force that as stated in posts above...

I have always named my readmes as: Product Name.txt and they go into a RuntimeZME Readmes folder... so my Readmes are never overwritten and are easy to find.

Rosity don't seem to have a problem with that... my products have always passed testing first time round.

As to the texture name.. I use the likes of gold, wood, etc., but mine are named zme_gold, zme_wood, etc., so that Poser doesn't pick up someone elses texture files.

Quote - Actually Keith .. I would hate your library structure. I want it by category, not merchant. For poses it is close to what I do but not exactly, etc. So even among systems you have people that would want it another way. I know some people don't want the merchant's name anywhere in the library (texture folder is possibly okay) so it is a toss up trying to please everyone and it is never going to happen.

Sure.  I could understand if another system was used or desired.  But the most important thing is consistancy so that if I want to rearrange things to suit my way, I could do it a lot easier than I can now.

The single biggest problem is the Textures folder.  The library folders are easy enough to rearrange, to reorganize or whatever, but the textures are utterly impossible.  Unless you go into the structure of the CR2s or PZ2 files to see where they are pointing, it's often impossible to find the folder holding the textures of what you want.

regarding the duplicate texture files, I heard a rumour that folks who buy alotta daz textures can end up buying the same one twice (or possibly more often). it was something about hi-res and lo-res versions. not sure how it happens, but the buyers tend to be indiscriminate.

Quote - I think too much finger pointing would ensue were someone to come up with a list of venders who dont organize/name reasonably.  

But I might just start a list naming those who DO organize correctly- efficiently.    A better business bureau of sorts lol

Svdl would be on that list as I have had no issues with his system so far at all.  That nesting described was perfectly acceptable.  It's when folder names have absolutely nothing to do with thier content or to my knowledge creator.

Hongyu is very good.  He doesn't put his readme files in a dedicated directory, but they are named with the product name.  As does aoaio.

Others?  Hmm.  Danie and marfano, although they use too many exclamation points.   Royloo is usually pretty good.  Xurge.  That's just a quick look at the zips I have on this machine.

The main thing the ones I named have in common is that the textures are easy to find.

I understand Keith's folder structure - and it is somewhat how I do things.  Except for DAZ, I organize specifically on figure and then addons (Character folder ex.):

Miki
..Clothes
....Swimsuit

DAZ
..Aiko3
....Clothes
....Hair (figure hair, of course)
..Michael3
....Clothes
..Victoria3
....Clothes

If I organized solely on merchant, my Miki clothes might be strewn all over the Character folder.  This is just to illustrate that no one system will work for everybody.

Lest we forget, despite their ancient status, Poser 4/PP are still being supported by vendors.  And there in lies a quandry.  You can't have subfolders beyond the one in the library folder in these versions.  This is why such practices as "Merchant_Product_for_thisFigure_v1" exist (or worse when the names got too acronymatic and truncated to fit in the Library view).  And you can't have external Runtimes with these either.  It is just as simple to make two folder structures to support both the older and newer versions - but how?  Two separate products?  Two zips inside the product zip?  Mix them up and let the user sort it out?

Except for the "!!!!!!" crap and unique filenames, this topic arises so often because there are a myriad 'logical' ways to organize data - any database users to bear that one out (last name, first name, address, city, state, date, time, birthdate, and on and on, for example - which one is 'right' for they are all logical under the correct circumstances)?  Your way is logical, my way is logical.  There are situations where the merchant organization isn't good, but for the rest of the merchants which standard organization should be enforced?

speaking of 'remaining nameless' - there's a name thing that occasionally trips me up.

I know I'm one of the minor players with only a 1-gig Runtime (and that's a whole 'nuther thread')..but maybe in the readme (whatever you want to call it)  include

Your name
Your site (if you have one)
the usual 'use/don't use commercially'
accreditation (you must/must not credit the creator)

I have something like 23 gig of Poser files (more like 15 gig of unique stuff, I keep getting the same stuff over and over..;), and 22,000+ downloads, I just can't keep straight who made what,
even with a database. Now I do get the file name, and I do load it, but once it's loaded, I get 
say (not to pick on anyone) 'Warrioress armor'. Who made it? Can I use it in commercial stuff (like I'm that good..;), do they really want credit? And how do I backtrack (unless I put that in the database; i.e., loaded...what a fun bit that would be to do..;)

I honestly try to credit where I remember who made it, and on rare occasions get 'dinged' by the creator, if I don't. But sometimes I even forget I have loaded something into Poser (and wind up surfing through FIgures, trying to remember what I had...oh, I forgot I put that in..;)

Just remember, it's free advertising, draws some to your site if you have one, and can't hurt, especially if we don't get around to including it in Poser for 6 months or a year later..;)

I just purchased a really nice product here for a good sale price. The readme is totally incorrect. If I were a beginner - and I remember those days well - I could not find a damn thing! I was told by Karen, an admin here, that the readmes and so on have to follow RR rules. Why isn't someone CHECKING THIS STUFF????????? (huffs angrily) PS Ziggy. If that is your freestuff with the cool circus and hospital stuff, thanks a lot! They're great!

Quote - I understand Keith's folder structure - and it is somewhat how I do things.  Except for DAZ, I organize specifically on figure and then addons (Character folder ex.):

To be honest...so do I.  I don't give merchants any credit internally (except when I buy enough of their stuff to justify a separate folder).  I'm rather ruthless in renaming folders and files.

But the point isn't what I choose to do afterward: the point is the installation of a file.  As it happens, personally, I install to an empty directory, sort, rename, then move it to the actual runtime when I'm happy with it.  The problem is that it takes time.  And especially if I happen to unzip a few files (from different sources) at the same time.  When I want to recorganize, then I can't find the right directory associated with the right pose files.

As I mentioned the single biggest bugaboo I have is texture folder names.

@pakled: Thanks. There's some useful tips in there.
Commercial/non-commercial use is a good idea to incorporate in a freestuff readme. For a marketplace item it's not necessary, an item bought on the marketplace always can be used for commercial renders.

A file list, like in the readmes of MP items, should be in a freebie readme too.

Reminds me of a demo VBA script I wrote ten years ago - it dissected mail sent by a listserver and put the mail in an organized database. Something similar can be done with readmes, if they follow a certain format. Doesn't even have to be completely structured (the listserver script was clever enough to strip out the ads before storing the info in the database).

Hmm. Nice little side project. A database app that can import a readme, parse the info, and store as much info about the product as possible... Quite hard to make the readme parser sufficiently flexible, now there's a nice programming challenge....

I know merchants don't make much money unless they are rather popular, but jeez, can't they check their files?

The biggest offending folder of duplicate file names that artists and vendors need to note in my humble opinion (my read me's are coupled to a filemaker database I designed with the store image and all kinds of search terms, that someday hopefully will become a freebee it's self and the readme's are stored outside my runtime) is files named chrome.jpg, gold.jpg or silver.jpg in either the relfection maps folder or the materials folder. with no other sub folder. Yet they created sub folders for their textures. I hate to say it but I have a list of artists or vendors, whose products I try to stay away from, beacause of repetivie file path, folder and file naming issues that required correcting. People are human and make mistakes. But when 3 products by the same artist had be corrected,,, What drives me crazy is that two other resellers know of products in there stores that have major problems, missing textures, missing morphs, etc. Yet the products have not been removed or the info page changed to reflect the fact that claimed morphs are not in the cloth or fixed in many many months.

here are 2 things that really bother me and I apologize if they have been covered

geometry files - please put your geometry files in  folders like Yourname/product name so if I ever need to delete I am not having to look all over the place for them

Also the same with your textures PLEASE!!! pit then in a folder with the product name and under your name. I have all thes eloose texture folders that should be in a folder under your name

Quote - How about this. Let's start a list of "banned from now on" generic texture names. I'll get it started with:

wood.jpg
chrome.jpg
gold.jpg
silver.jpg
rock.jpg
stone.jpg
wall.jpg
floor.jpg
ceiling.jpg
house.jpg
oldwood.jpg
silverref.jpg
silverreflect.jpg
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Anyone care to join in?

Goldref LOL

Miss Nancy I'm sorry but I have to take exception to your comment:
they may only volunteer as testers to get free items, and not to do serious problem-fixing.

I work as a volunteer tester both for a Poser store and for several merchants on a private basis.  I do this voluntarily and as a tester it is your duty to actually break the damn things whereever possible.  I recently spent 5 hours on one outfit mesh test to cover every eventuality I could think of.  At work I earn £8 an hour so that would be £40 just for the initial test alone and not taking anything else into account, like the fact it was a Sunday and I get paid double time if I have to do the office thing on a Sunday.  You do not get free product for testing, you get minor compensation for your time by being allowed to keep the pack and in cases such as characters, clothing and scenery then it woudl be more cost effective to just buy the thing on release.  You test for the love of it, and quite possibly because you are anal as hell   I know you were talking about one specific mind set but I can't help myself, it is a knee jerk reaction whenever I hear or readanything like that.

As a merchant I always put all my textures in a nested structure starting with VLF and then in folders that relate to the product they are for and my texture pack name.  Since the beginning of this year I now have an extra folder in there for the base figure they are for, G2, Miki 2 etc..  I do the same with my Read Mes as well.  Basically I organise my products in the way I find works for me best as an end user and how I like to have the products I buy laid out.

Sorry, I can't remember who it was that requested merchants include their websote addresses in their Read Mes.  Unless your site does not sell anything then you are not allowed to, if you look through the submission guidelines there are a lot of rules about what can and cannot be in your read me.

Non-specific file names are a pain in the front bottom, they really and truely are the bane of my life.  blue, green, peach all drive me close to insanity - especially when it applies hair to your eyes and vice versa.  My texture names are sually rather long but hey they are unique and yu can tell from looking at them who made them, what pack they go with and if it is a texture, bump, displacement, specularity or transparency map without ever having to open it.  Then again, I am truely anal grin

**And I'll second Valerian70. She recently tested for a product of mine and gave me an itemized, detailed listing of every part of the product from the readme to folder structure to...well, everything! The most professional, complete and thorough testing I have ever had on a product of mine. And I'm proud to say that the product passed easily through the Rendo MP testers.

What did she get in return? 4 dress textures and a big hearty thank you! But that thank you comes from the bottom of my heart and I truly feel blessed to have had her test it for me.

BTW....Vendors are reading this. This one is, at least. And taking notes for the future.**

We seem to be following each other around the forums tonight Janet

I am all embarrassed now too but I'm glad you were pleased wth the testing - thats important to me!

You know....I was just thinking. If the MP testers were as thorough as you were, there wouldn't be any threads like this one.

I test for a few merchants here and get a free product. I often find things missed by the RR testers.

If you want to read the readme, keep the original installation file (pretty good practice, anyway, in case a Poser library just Bermuda-Triangles on you, as happened to one of mine recently).   You can open out the zip file without actually reinstalling everything and you can read the readme.    Of course, if you do things that way, it's actually rather useful for the readme to be called something instantly recognisable, such as "readme".   Since the readme will contain a list of the other zipped files, you will also know how many bits of punctuation preface the file for which you are looking.

It's too late to establish control over the naming conventions and the fault really lies with whoever it was that established the way in which certain types of character take precedence over others (in other words, it's completely out of the hands of 3D vendors, brokers, or software developers).   It's not just the exclamation marks that affect the issue.   Numbers do, too, as do internal hyphens and underscores and the case of letters.   I have a V3 character which I use a lot, by a rightly respected vendor, whose Pose files reside in a folder with a mixed-case name.   That actually means that it comes after all of the ones that begin with "MAT" and that its position in the list doesn't have a huge amount to do with strict alphabetical order.   I use the set a lot because I like it, but it doesn't do any harm that it is easy to find.   In a way, very possibly accidentally, that vendor did ensure that her character got used (at least by me - admittedly, not exactly a surefire way to billionaire status), but can one claim that using mixed case for a folder name is stealing an unfair advantage?   Logically, the people who complain about the proliferation of exclamation marks ought also to object to mixed case, because it affects a folder's position just as decisively, if in not the same way.   

I am also not quite sure how people propose to enforce unique names for files, while simultaneously enforcing strict rules for folder names, since one trend would demand a wider range, while the other would reduce it.   I agree with the idea that vendors should try to create unique names for their files, but that is plainly impossible to enforce. 

What I would like is for people to use teh default folders for things like animals...mostly aimed at CP with this one cause it is there software, but why say the blue jay, has his own folder the eagle, the cardinal etc...why not just place then in the animals folder???

Now I am really angry. I bought Orion's Azusa outfit for V4 and it is missing textures. I had to email Orion and customer support. WILL RR PLEASE TEST THEIR MERCHANT GOODS????

Why isn't there a template that the vendors have to adhere to in order to get their stuff in..I agree about the readmes. They have 900 letter names yet can't name the readme file to show what it belongs to. If there are vendors who continue to do this and have so many mistakes why do you continue to buy from them? Maybe a boycott would wake them up.
Marque

Quote : *"Now I am really angry. I bought Orion's Azusa outfit for V4 and it is missing textures. I had to email Orion and customer support. WILL RR PLEASE TEST THEIR MERCHANT GOODS????"

........

Yes I've struck this sort of thing on numerous occasions ...

However, I have been told that products take longer to hit the RR store (compared to other online shops) because the testing is more stringent .... yeah right !!

I also want to add a separate gripe. I wish merchants would NOT package files for more than one base character into the one product. e.g. V3/S3/A3 or M3/D3/H3. I have separate runtimes for each of these and consequently when I get one of these products, I know I've got some work on my hands splitting them up.

Worst offender by far is DAZ in this regard, but PoserAddicts have been known to put out packages like this too.