All you did was reassert your assertions. Assertions noted.

these render times  are not assertions sir  they are facts
Firely cant do this  even on Uber quad core PC's that the reason were are
discussing render in otherr app in the first place.......................... right?

is the**" assertion"**that CINEMA/MAX /LW  users et al can do these grand renders
but some how cant do intimate" "art"  Nudie girl pics??

it a matter of one personal choice/professional needs.

 I dont expect that everyone  in 3D etc  dreams of rendering
the defense of "Helms Deep" from Lord of the Rings.
But I imagine Some may want to do more than simple scenes with one or two characters
"intimate" or other wise.

Example 2) "Legion vast"
5  DAZ M2 figs wearing  the "legion" armor from sanctum arts "unholy reunion" series
each FULL armor: 274,000 polygons
render time. about 2 hoursfor a 46x30 poster at size
Same  low end apple E-mac as  10 foot Mural render.

When a 3D mesh becomes a righteously defended personification of your personal desires It has become an IDOL and YOU have become its worshipper,slave and servant
-Tain-

but the reason one might find a dearth of such***"Intimate"***
renders posted in the Cinema/MAX/MAYA gallery is
Due to the fact that those programs are capable  of and intended for rendering
**much more. <<

**Possibly. And in that case, I have no quarrel, and in fact you are making my point. Poser is not intended to attack scenes such as you posted above.

This does not change the fact that should anyone from that world care to address this category I am referring to, Poser is equal to the task.

::::: Opera :::::

Here are some C4D 'results' that aren't just 'cars, widgets, landscapes': :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=401445&highlight=cinema

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=431804&highlight=cinema

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=358015&highlight=cinema

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=278546&highlight=cinema

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=61150&highlight=cinema

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=225468&highlight=cinema (this one is highly acclaimed - ultra realistic)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=78267&highlight=cinema
Poser 7 is getting closer to such tasks - but I don't think it will be competing in quality and speed any time soon.  Remember that C4D's render engine is snuffed at by users of Mental Ray, VRay, etc.  So you're two miles back, not just a few steps.

yes, i cited the kid/emperor image....how much of the credit goes to Body Paint for that image? And I wish they would all give the render times; they never do.

Still, kuroyume0161, few of those examples are the category I am speaking of...what you see so much of in poser...the portrait or body study, nude or not nude, without any machines or much architecture. [disclaimer to avoid going around in circles: I am not saying this is all Poser should be good for, I'm saying that Poser can hold it's own in this category]

Wolf...you are barking but not in my tree. You missed.

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - **...**Also the price isn't the issue either. Carrara 5 standard has a pretty good rendering engine and yet is in the same price range as Poser. C6 standard will soon be able to anything that Poser 7 can do and add tons of stuff to it and an excellent rendering engine, yet for the same price (or even less) then Poser costs.

but carrara has a more expensive brother that shares the cost of develiping and implamenting the reneder engine, so the average of the prices would still be higher.

Has carara had the unstable ownership that poser experienced between 4 and 6?

*Quote -
Wolf...you are barking but not in my tree. You missed.

::::: Opera :::::*

You seen to urgently want XSI /MAX and mental ray/Vray etc.
but act offended when others point out the reason why XSI/MAX /C4D are better
programs than poser .

I under you completely now.

cheers all.

When a 3D mesh becomes a righteously defended personification of your personal desires It has become an IDOL and YOU have become its w**orshipper,slave and servant
**-Tain-

Magoo was trying t crash poser with his new system.. he kep adding more and more mill leel figures, with clothes, and props.

here's a quote of his usenet post:

"and with IBL AO lighting, the lag with hair is a thing of the past. rendered in
10 minutes with all the settings on max. probably could've put more in, in fact
i'm sure of it. i just hit render to see what was up.  8-)))))))))))))))))"

and here's the image...

(edited for file attachement)

wolf wrong again

Anyone know how to do the "open up windows to access 3Gig instead of 2Gig" thing?

I have 25 V4 in my viewport and render is halted by out of memory. As I was adding them, I tested render up to about 12 and it was okay.

By the way, the viewport and all else amazingly responsive. No crashes or bogs. About a 1-2 second delay in some things over normal scene.

pz3 is 1.12GIG on desktop

GO ANGELS, going for sweep of Yankees today, scored 18 runs and drubbed them last night. Gareee, how can I get the phone number of that cute blond with the Angels tee shirt?

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - Anyone know how to do the "open up windows to access 3Gig instead of 2Gig" thing?

You mean throw the 3Gb switch? Tutorial here:

http://www.keindesign.de/stefan/poser/3gb.html

yes, that's it cspear
reading it....I think I'll not take the plunge today. too many other distractions.
but thanks

Operaguy,

Just to put a bit of flesh on the bones, making Windows XP 3Gb capable is very simple, as shown in the link above.

Messing about with Poser 6 to make it Large Address Aware sounds a bit scary, but it does work.

However, you DO NOT need to do this for Poser 7: it's already 'Large Address Aware'.

Quote - You seen to urgently want XSI /MAX and mental ray/Vray etc.
but act offended when others point out the reason why XSI/MAX /C4D are better
programs than poser .

I'm starting to notice some of that too... odd.   Oh well

If the render engine attached to a $3500 program (or even to an $800 program) wasn't in some ways better than the render engine connected with a $300 program......then I think that the purchasers of the more expensive apps would be the people who were being ripped off.

Poser's renderer is fine -- within the limits of what it's set up to do.  But I believe that those limits should be recognized and admitted to.

I'll add that a Poser render tends to look like a Poser render.  I've seen some Poser images that have definitely stood above the crowd -- and I've also seen Poser renders that have been Photoshopped into being the equal of a render done.......say in Lightwave using FPrime.  Which is a perfectly legitimate thing to do......but which in its own way also serves to point out the limits of Poser's borders.

I'll end this post on my same broken-record note: Poser Pro will probably manage to get beyond these limitations.  Or at least that's what I'm hoping to see happen.

You are all still missing the point and now starting to talk about me while I am in the room and continuing to get it wrong.

Therefore, even though not necessary, I will recap:

1. I am indeed on a path to purchasing the license and devoting significant time to a major application, probably Max but also maybe XSI or Cinema4D

2. Obviously, I would only be doing this if I thought what I want to accomplish is beyond the scope of Poser. So: STIPULATED: for certain functions, such as GI, architecture, landscape flyovers, crowd scenes, complex machinery, heavy raytrace with the goal of massive scene photorealism, Poser is inferior to the other programs; it was never intended to do those things.

3. My objection is to the totalizing of many people that the fact of point2 can be extrapolated to the broad characterization of "Poser is inferior to these other products, period." This is evidenced by an outright stubborn blindness in many to see that on the level of what I call 'intimate" scenes, Poser easily and proudly holds its own. In fact, a case could be made that  Poser is BETTER than those programs in this category. After all, there is significant lack of work evidenced in these areas; Max, XSI and Cinema, Carrara, Vue, Animation:Master artists do NOTE EVEN ATTEMPT to do major work in this arena. There is bluster that 'well, we can do "more", so why bother with these modest scenes" or "we could if we wanted to", but perhaps the reason is that they cannot attain the level of Poser.  The only person in this thread offering actual counter to this point is PJZ, with one render. 

Leaving aside "painters", more fantastic portraits, nude studies and small scenes are accomplished in Poser than in these other applications.

Now I am going to shut up about this for two reaons: 1) headed into vacation for a week; 2) i am in production of an 8-minute short film in this category in Poser -- i'd rather show you what I mean than continue to talk about it.

::::: Opera :::::

*This is evidenced by an outright stubborn blindness in many to see that on the level of what I call 'intimate" scenes, Poser easily and proudly holds its own. In fact, a case could be made that  Poser is BETTER than those programs in this category. After all, there is significant lack of work evidenced in these areas; Max, XSI and Cinema, Carrara, Vue, Animation:Master artists do NOTE EVEN ATTEMPT to do major work in this arena.

*I'm not sure what you base this one, but allow me to point you to some renders that show otherwise to what you try to proof.......

Carrara:[

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1502507](http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1502507)
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1502669
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1496964
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1483432

Some of these perhaps a bit less, but still.....
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1492109
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1496520
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1498670
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1498593
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1496173

How about some Studio Max stuff:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1485964
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1499855
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1495337
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1501234
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1500947
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1494909
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1492200

Some of this stuff is sure close to Poser's 'intimate" scenes......... Also let's not forget one thing, most of the 'intimate' scenes created with poser depend very heavily on postwork, a lot of them really have nothing more to with poser at all. The artist has postworked them so much that the 'real' poser look has gone. The artist could easily achieve the same  'intimate' scenes when rendering in D/S, Carrara, Cinema4D, 3DSMax or whatever, since the postwork determines the real outcome of the image.

Just one more note on the poser not being intended for large scenes...... EF just released this stuff: http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/home.php?cat=2659

They're called Super Scene Series...... funny how the makers of a program that's according to some not supposed to be used for 'super' scenes, just have released stuff like this. I guess even EF hopes we one day grow out of our Poser 1 mindset.

Not too shabby on the so-called Super Scenes -- as if I didn't have enough to spend money on already.....................

I don't know about Poser's "not being intended" for large scenes -- but I do know that I've frequently had Poser choke on attempted renders of large scenes.  Poser 7 is far better at the job than previous versions of Poser have been -- just not "there yet".  I expect that Poser Pro will be far better still.

"Gareee, how can I get the phone number of that cute blond with the Angels tee shirt?"

Beats me.. lol.. I had a devil of a time trying to find Magoo's posts abotu trying to bring P7 to it's knees... as far as I could tell, he never did manage to kill poser 7. if you loog for McG or magoo's posts in alt.binaries.3d.poser, from 4/15 foreward, you'll see quite a number of renders with like 20 or 30 millenium figures clothed, and rendering fine.

He DOES has a quad core very fast memory based system, and set it up to take advantage of xp pro 64 bit.  I could never find what he paid for it (but I remember he got a steal!), and priced the parts out at newegg for like $6000 or so!

So like higher end graphic platforms like max and xsi, if you give P7 the hardware, it can work wonders.

Quote - "Anyone know how to do the "open up windows to access 3Gig instead of 2Gig" thing?"

 
You mean throw the 3Gb switch? Tutorial here:

http://www.keindesign.de/stefan/poser/3gb.html

Ok, followed that link, but there was nothing xp pro specific... which instructions do I use for xp pro?

You shouldn't need the 3GB switch to get it seen by Windows XP Pro SP2 - it already supports it and I see 3GB without any switch on my system.  But it is a dual Xeon, so it may be required for a single cpu system (shrug).

All you need to do is make the Boot.ini file writable, add some switches, save, and make unwritable - all done (after a reboot of course):

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional 3GB" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /3GB
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional PAE" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /PAE
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional 3GB+PAE" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /3GB /PAE

There are two options: 3GB and PAE.  Some systems require one, the other, or both to get the memory seen in Windows.

Of course, if not using Poser 7, you'll need to proceed with Stefan's modifications to the Poser.exe.

hmmm wonder how to check if my system sees all the memory or not?

Quote - hmmm wonder how to check if my system sees all the memory or not?

Task manager should do the trick, no?

Quote - So like higher end graphic platforms like max and xsi, if you give P7 the hardware, it can work wonders.

As I touched on earlier in this thread -- in my experience, hardware has a lot more to do with overall performance than software does.  But it's also true that some software packages can do more with less, hardware wise.

I've had P7 lock up on scenes that Vue could handle.

If P7 hums on your friend's machine -- then Max, Vue, Lightwave, C4D, et al should be able to positively fly on the same machine.

By no means am I knocking Poser.  I have always been -- and am -- a staunch defender of the program.  But I'm also enough of a realist to see where there's room for improvement.  I believe that ef is about to give us that improvement.......which might even take Poser to the next level.

Good thing, too.  I'm also going to have Carrara 6 Pro -- which if it turns out to be anything like the previews -- it'll be a subperb mid-point 3D software, too.  And probably Poser Pro's main competition.  Personally, I intend to have both packages.

Quote - You shouldn't need the 3GB switch to get it seen by Windows XP Pro SP2 - it already supports it and I see 3GB without any switch on my system.  But it is a dual Xeon, so it may be required for a single cpu system (shrug).

The /3GB thing is not about how much physical RAM Windows can see. It is about how much virtual address space it will hand out to applications (that is, even on a system with 1GB RAM it can make a difference). See http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2004/08/22/218527.aspx for juicy details and mythbusting.

hmm task manager shows 3668460 (4 gig) installed, but does that mean the 3 gig trick isn;t needed, or is it addressed differently?

Quote - (but I remember he got a steal!)

So, he stole it, did he?  No wonder he won't tell you the price.

Attached Link: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx

All of those questions are answered on the Microsoft web site: "Windows XP Professional and Windows Server 2003 Memory Support. The maximum amount of memory that can be supported on Windows XP Professional and Windows Server 2003 is also 4 GB. However, Windows Server 2003, Enterprise Edition supports 32 GB of physical RAM and Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition supports 64 GB of physical RAM using the PAE feature. The virtual address space of processes and applications is still limited to 2 GB unless the /3GB switch is used in the Boot.ini file. When the physical RAM in the system exceeds 16 GB and the /3GB switch is used, the operating system will ignore the additional RAM until the /3GB switch is removed. This is because of the increased size of the kernel required to support more Page Table Entries. The assumption is made that the administrator would rather not lose the /3GB functionality silently and automatically; therefore, this requires the administrator to explicitly change this setting."

Quote - After all, there is significant lack of work evidenced in these areas; Max, XSI and Cinema, Carrara, Vue, Animation:Master artists do NOTE EVEN ATTEMPT to do major work in this arena.

Perhaps you've been ignoring the things several people have been telling you, me included, but:  That is a function of the content - specifically, rigged, customizable human figures.  Nothing whatsoever to do with render quality.  I had thought we'd already discussed this and you had acknowledged this.  When you work in a non-Poser app, you have the option of modeling and rigging and texturing a figure from scratch, or buying a very limited figure from TurboSquid - basically Masha is the only commercially available human figure with any morph targets built in for expressions, and only 10 of those, and since her hands are only minimally posed in the promo images I'd expect they're not rigged all that well by the standards we have in Poser-land.  And by the way I hope you like her body just the way it is, because if you don't, you have to do some rather careful modeling and probably adjust the rig to make very significant changes.

Or you can convert Poser content in some fashion into one of these other apps, which is problematic for a variety of reasons, and which is why Wolf359 and I have been nudging you towards C4D interPoser Pro; because it does a pretty good conversion into a C4D asset that is poseable, has usable morph dials, and the like.  This is difficult and time consuming even so, and can be a daunting task for the stereotypical Poser gallery comment-monger, which imo is much of the reason that few gallery comment-mongers do it.

Or you can stick with Poser and use it for rendering, and postwork out the thick black polygon lines that sometimes appear when using AO, or play around with making large arrays of point lights + blurred shadows to try to avoid using depthmapped shadows, or try to smudge out sharp poly creases on your dynamic cloth (hope it isn't textured).

I'll add that the reason I've only shown you one render of mine is that it's taken several weeks for me to just get materials looking the way I think they ought to; few people had detailed, helpful information on this and much of it was done by trial and error.  It was discouraging, difficult, time-consuming, and I still think it needs some improvement.  I also do not have hair looking all that much like hair just yet, and I've committed to getting away from polygon hair - so that is taking time to learn to do well also.  Lighting is fundamentally different - area lights, area shadows, GI are all powerful and attractive features that do very cool things, but it takes time to learn how to use them.  Not quite like popping in somebody else's RDNA canned lights like many gallery people seem to do.

I stand corrected on the memory switch in regards to actual processes.  Luckily, more than 2GB is rarely needed here, but I do have the boot option. :)

Your forgetting 1 important point if an application is programed properly and will work even on lower spec machine, will keep lot people happy.
Now i use AMD 64 4200 1gb mem gona upgrade 2gb and installing today or tomorrow XP 64 second hard drive.
I have found poser 7 can render large scenes and depends on what options going even though they still wont fix the bugs, and studio even with its faults is a superb program for FREE and renders superb.
Carrara 5 pro was best investment i ever made as it can render giant scenes, and yes had vue 5 esprite and when borrowed 5 inf from friend i was bloody angry when see how they made inf handle memory better than esprite.
Now i bought 6 esprite because was supposed be dual core and another reason got second system, and was able to handle memory better and render bigger poser scenes.
This post in vue forum would get pulled or screamed at.
Now vue 6 esprite can do a superb high render of 1 poser figure and some plants for a high quality portrait render but, ya looking at 6 to 10 hours, but if 6 inf far shorter.
Vue 6 esprite is a glorious RIP off program as it is a cheapo cut down version of 6 inf, it is a waste of money and unless you can afford 6 inf use some other program.
Vue 6 esprite can do fantastic renders but i don't like idea that i was ripped off with my money for a cheap piece of junk that cant even render a poser scene that poser 5 and 6 can do, as they bloody advertised that it can render poser scenes.
They shoulda stated that on a 1gb machine ya cant do that much render of poser stuff.
And i don't give a bloody toss about oh i got quad core 20 GB mem super 1000 dollar or pound graphic card etc etc yada yada yada, most people will have computers that have between 1gb to 4 GB and medium graphic card and a software house that supports people like that will earn great money.
Lots people dont buy vue 6 as the word spread like hot cakes about the swindle 6 esprite was so E-On only themselves to blame if people get their software but don't buy.
You make a program 1 for high end market and 1 for low end market but you don't bloody screw the low end users by leaving dual core support out and making it screw up on memory.
You start with core program that works on dual core and min 1 GB mem then you split into the version for high end users and low end users, vue 6 esprite was a glorious RIP off as they deliberately sold it with inferior capabilities that other same priced marked programs can do.
They should have fixed p7 first before doing a pro version and ill tell ya this if 7 pro is bugged then they is finished as a company, so they getter make sure they bloody beta tested it..

Quote - Your forgetting 1 important point ... so they getter make sure they bloody beta tested it..

{Shrug}

Quote - yes, i cited the kid/emperor image....how much of the credit goes to Body Paint for that image? And I wish they would all give the render times; they never do.

::::: Opera :::::

Well firstly I don't understand your first comment concerning Body Paint...thats like asking a fine artsist how much credit is given to the paint brush they used. Body Paint is a tool - it's not a fast fix. Body Paint can be used to make a great image or a bad image, depending on who is using it.
OK, I will just ask, "how much credit goes to a pre-built uni-mesh figure for Poser images?"
That quote is just as pointless as your comment concerning Body Paint!

Render times are probably not mentioned, because render times are not an issue.

Quote - It's not a common practice in Poser as far as I know, but in principle it's pretty easy if you wanted to take the time to set something like that up - you could just parent a primitive (e.g. cylinder) to a given body part that you want to be a cloth collider, x/y/z scale the primitive so it roughly fits that body part, and let the cloth collide against the primitives instead of the body.  Set the primitives to have a transparent material or some such to keep them from being visible in the render.  As the figure animates, the primitives will follow their parent body part.  It never occurred to me to try this approach when I used Poser heavily, and now that I no longer do, I don't have a lot of interest in trying it.

I've actually experimented with this programmatically. In a rough way, it does work, and as long as your figure isn't a complex shape (even early Quake/UT style low-poly humanoids), no problem. It's actually an expansion of a common gaming program trick of the "bounding box" (an invisible cube that surrounds a player mesh), but inverted and set to collide against one item (the bit o' cloth) instead of The World. I Poser/D|S, that approach would be sort of a nightmare due to two reasons: morphs, and the body part shapes (e.g. "chest" as a perfect example - while I adore the human female breast, they're absolute motherfsckers when it comes to calculating cloth collisions against them). I do know that because of the way D|S processes geometry, it is actually easier to just use the shape of the part, but still, there's lots of calculations that occur. I've found that one way (among others) to speed up collision calculations while maintaining shape involve a technique I'd been screwing with. It involves taking a conforming cloth, then colliding the cloth vertices of each cloth part (after programmatically reversing the vertex normals for use as the colliding calc rays) against the corresponding body part polys and the part's immediate 'neighbors', with a distance constraint to ignore neigboring body part vertices after n(const. across x,y,z). You can also set a minimum distance for each cloth vertex to keep from the body part. Smooth the cloth when done, then do a safety check for any collisions caused by smoothing. It would still take some time, but it has the advantage of working on conforming clothes (where you can break things up into parts (and when allow the user to pick which parts need the calculations, which shortens the time even more) and at the same time accounting for 95% - 99% of any poke-through. (which means you might have to run it again if the pose changes drastically). OTOH, it's damned fast - I could do the calculations in D|S using only 10% of the time usually required to fit a similar type of clothing in Poser 6. Now throw in OpenGL (I hadn't, but intend to experiment with it), and you can get some shit-hot work done in very little time. Even through OGL itself doesn't have a collision library, D|S does have some nice extensions to it that I can use approximate the same thing, and there are lots of open-source (as in, OSI-approved) library extensions that add some very interesting collision detection tweaks, and speed things up a ton. (I know, I know... I was supposed to leave the thread to the blowhards and the kiss-ups as it was counterproductive and all, but this part I like). PS: The render engine will prolly still be (blecch) FireFly. Now if Poser built a way to plug in to a commercial external rendering app or four, then yeah... it would be worth it in the render department. Otherwise, no friggin' way. /P

Quote - > Quote - Your forgetting 1 important point ... so they getter make sure they bloody beta tested it..

{Shrug}

This can be.......tough to follow.  If I'm reading him correctly, I think that he's upset about something.  Although I'm not quite sure what, exactly.

Quote - I know, I know... I was supposed to leave the thread to the blowhards

:lol:

Sounds lke Jugoth wants Max or XSI at Poser 7 prices.

Ya get what ya pay for. You buy a lower end computer with a small amount of memory, or try to run advanced 3d programs one older hardware, and yer gonna have problems. Been that way for 20 years, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

Ya can bitch about eon, but ya know what? They've done SUCH a poor job with V6I that professional studios like Disney and Lucasfilms are using it now.

EF only has so much developemtn cash laying around.. maybe you should just front them a million or two, so they can add the features that you want in P7. For it's price, P7 is an AMAZING bargain, and it takes a lot of balls to bitch about something like that.

Ya want more? PAY FOR IT, like everyone else does.

There's a reason why all those other higher end programs can do more.. they sell for more, and generate more developement dollars. What part of that don't you understand?

Buy a chair from Walmart, and then buy a finely crafted peice from Ethan Allen and compare them. You can sit in both, but the Etahn Allen chair is gonna look better, be more comfortable, and last a hell of a lot longer.

I'm just always very amused by people who want it ALL, but just aren't willing to pay for it.

I'm FAR from rich, but I upgrade my computer systems every year, for both me and my wife, and we always get a good value from our purcahses.

Like my mother used to say, Shit or get off the Pot!... hehee

Thus is the state with the internet and being spoiled price-wise.  When you can get an internet account for $9.95/mo or buy stuff online for cut-rate prices and heavy discounts and then download it for immediate gratification, this is what you get.  What people don't get is that there is always a source of income somewhere - even if it isn't directly from the customer.  Usually, it is from advertising (click my annoying link, please - NOW!) or from other ventures.  And then you have the dollar stores, Walmart, TJMaxx, and so on who buy in super-bulk to get bulk rates and skimp in other areas (employee wages, perhaps) to sell items at amazingly low costs.

Heck, it's software - you only have to write it once, right?  Why should I pay somebody to write a program once and sell it multiple times at such high costs! (sarcasm there)  And adding new features should only take a day or two!  How hard can it be? ;)

I think people need mandatory computer programming courses in high school.  Then they would begin to understand that people have made careers decades long working on these 'oh-so simple' things.  If it were so simple, it'd be called 'computer poetry', not computer SCIENCE.

Just lots of goofy stuff in the forums to post about it today. Nice of people like that to be around to amuse me when I'm bored.. LOL!

Just say the word "Vue".  That'll set 'em off - guaranteed.  Perhaps cure boredom in the process, too !

Quote - (I know, I know... I was supposed to leave the thread to the blowhards and the kiss-ups as it was counterproductive and all, but this part I like).

Oh, be nice or I'll send you an ADD A FRIEND request, and then all your bear pals will lump you up for fraternizing with the dark side :tt2:

Quote -
Ya want more? PAY FOR IT, like everyone else does.

You do realize that Maya once cost well north of $20,000 and came with an SGI box, right?

Quote -
Heck, it's software - you only have to write it once, right?  Why should I pay somebody to write a program once and sell it multiple times at such high costs! (sarcasm there)  And adding new features should only take a day or two!  How hard can it be? ;)

Actually, once the initial dev costs are amortized by sales, the rest funds either new projects, new versions, or maintenance/bug-fix support. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle on that argument. ;)

Meanwhile, back to collision detect - will this P7Pro actually bring a dynamic cloth calc time to within a geologic epoch this time, or is it the same engine too?

/P

You know that I was kidding. ;D

One can only hope on collision detection with cloth/hair sims.  As I said, it may be that if you can use proxies instead of the heavy figure geometry, the sims would be much faster.  Would be nice though if the speeds were increased to period or historical times nonetheless.

This time 'round, I'll let everyone try out the Pro version and see how it fares.  Currently moving my mega-monster system to a new mega-monster system.  We're talking about 250GB of data and 100 apps to install - some on two OSs.  I tried just plopping the data drives (IDE) in but since the boot drives are SATA, no go.  This would mean reinstallation of the OSs with the SATA drivers at hand (yada yada).  My fault - should have discussed this with my techy builder so that IDEs wouldn't cause this situation.  But SATA all the way is fine with me - just slow in migration.

Despite my ofttimes nasty attitude towards Poser ;P I think that nothing has been better for it than having switched hands over to e-frontier.  They really seem to be progressing the application by leaps and bounds.  Previous owners sat on their laurels for the most part while the rest of the world moved into new realms.

Quote - You know that I was kidding. ;D

One can only hope on collision detection with cloth/hair sims.  As I said, it may be that if you can use proxies instead of the heavy figure geometry, the sims would be much faster.  Would be nice though if the speeds were increased to period or historical times nonetheless.

True, but when I'm seeing stuff like this:

http://www.humus.ca/index.php?page=3D&ID=45

...umm... It leads me to wonder :"WTF have we been doing wrong all this time?"

( I know, I know: Yes it's OGL so software-only won't work, yes it's ultra-low in actual cloth calc points (4, to be exact)... but what would be so impossible about having a binary NURBS-like clothing object with relatively few handle-points to calc from? The only real bitch is that existing clothing would be pretty worthless.)

Quote - This time 'round, I'll let everyone try out the Pro version and see how it fares.

Agreed - a couple of hundred bucks for ...?

Nuh-uh. I'll wait to see what it actually provides, first.

I mean, I'd stump for it if they built a Linux version and all, but otherwise there's no really compelling feature there.

Quote - Previous owners sat on their laurels for the most part while the rest of the world moved into new realms.

Yep.

Me, I'm just waiting until that Kai-Krause inspired nightmare is pounded into something a bit more machine-friendly.

Nah Gareee.
You lost the plot my son if a program called Freddy was written, now 2 versions come 1 high end 1 low end,  the lo end version you render a scene but the way program writen you can only render low.
The high end version renders the scene great sooo sorry the low end version should render exactly like the high end version with same amount memory.
Yea if you want all the super dooper features of a high end version you pay, but you don't deliberately make the low end version conk out on same memory that high end version can handle.
OOOOHHHH  wooppa choopa the majory Hollywood studios use vue wowsa wowsa howsa, so what ohhh they can spend 50 to a 100 thousand to a million dollars on hardware to use vue for these films.
Babylon 5 was made when it came out with Amiga 500s and up and the video toaster about 250 bucks worth off equipment but they use vue with a million bucks worth of equipment.
Go figure.
Its nice to see that the rendersoity message boards always have the same people go in every forum and post, im sorry you dont like other people come in and upset apple cart, tough.
School scene 1 13 year old brought in a DVD of a cartoon he made using daddy's latest PC and nearly 5 grands worth  software, lts say 5000 quid was superb.
12 year old Johny showed his done on a second hand amiga 1000 vidi 24 and a video toaster, 200 quid spent equipment, showed up the super dooper pc and expensive software.
I want a program that will work with memory and i don't care if it low end software as long as they don't screw memory up i don't care, you pay for what you want use, but vue 6 esprite is a ripp off.

Vue.