3DNeo

basically all posers stuff is pretty,sexy stuff for girls.

ya there's 1000's of girls stuff for poser but unless ya just making girls renders or movies

ya extremely limited.

say ya want to make a render of LOTR,The Matrix or any movie ya can think of that has a original theme.unless it's a theme of sexy girls you can't out of the 1000's of poser meshes for sell.

RorrKonn
http://64.234.196.28/

* Mondo could be the app, but correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not as easy to play with as it would be as Poser and a Daz figure with the built-in morphs. Sure, you can always sculpt and do your own, but if you are talking about the HUGE mass market appeal of selling like here at Renderosity, then look no further than the market place. Almost 90% of all new content is for the current Daz figures. So, unless you have a design team behind you, I don't see a way to possibly make enough cloths, props, etc. to support any figure for mass market. 

Yep!  I suppose the Daz figures have a certain comfort zone.

*Also, how and could you add hundreds of morphs to your custom figure in Modo to make it easy to sculpt for body, face and expressions like the V4, M3 figures by Daz? I don't know anything about Modo other than Daz V4 was created in it. That's why I was wondering how hard it would be to do all those morphs for a figure you design yourself. 

Not hard at all.  Study anatomy then take a few live drawing classes,  a few sculpting classes. 
Study expressions and body language along with motion and gestures.  Apply the knowledge you've learned as you push and pull vertices,  edges and polys.

*Again, I think we are comparing 2 different ways of doing things to 2 different markets. One is more professional and taking a longer time to learn and work with to achieve what you want. The other is giving you ready-to-go type figures and software. I see the advantages and disadvantages to both sides here. 

I agree.  There's only one difference between Daz  figures and Renderosity figures.
We made the developement of our figures public and we listen to what the public wants from our figures. 

I have a question.  Which figure would you like, one off the rack or one custom made?

Excellent work Phantom3D!  Put me down for a copy!

patorak: Do you know if anyone has ever tried to apply the texture to the bent posed body part for the stretch prone areas of the body?

Yep!  it's called endomorph mapping.  Jim Burton had a real good tut about it over at Poser Pros.  Here's the jist.  In Max create two morphs and call one default and one bend mapping.  For the default pose,  leave your figure in the crucifix pose.  For the bend mapping bend each appendage 45 degrees.  Apply bend mapping morph and create a new UV map or apply bend mapping morph and relax your current map.  Apply default pose morph and delete bend mapping morph.   

Quote -

As other posters have said, high polycount isn't the key to great realism. The ideal weould be a low poly character, with high levels of SD at render time, with a great material setup - much lighter on resources, able to be used within the UI of the program in its 'naked' state very quickly due to its low resource overhead. This is not something that's going to happen in Poser until they change their method of smoothing and subdivision (not likely in my opinion).

JonTheCelt

Don't forget to add softbodies and proper skin behaviour so the legs and shoulders don't have to fold into themselves regardless of how well the figure was modeled.

*Don't forget to add softbodies and proper skin behaviour so the legs and shoulders don't have to fold into themselves regardless of how well the figure was modeled.

I plan on it!  This weekend I'm hittin' the beach for the sole purpose of checkin' out the softbodies in action.

"I plan on it!  This weekend I'm hittin' the beach for the sole purpose of checkin' out the softbodies in action."

Oh Yeah, I hear you on that one.

I like it.  Edgelooping follows major muscle groups and pinch points are positioned where tendon meets bone.  Very solid base.

Quote - You know when it comes to morphs the mil/apollo figures don't have foot compression when walking,  thigh and buttock compression when sitting,  or hand compression when grasping.

Apollo has compression via his joint paremeters. And the foot has the foot arch for this purpose. The hand grasps very realistically without comression morphs, which lead back to JCM, and thus more bloat.

But thanks for the feedback. I'll look into adding some, where neccesary in the 2008 release.

Cheers.

*Apollo has compression via his joint paremeters. And the foot has the foot arch for this purpose. The hand grasps very realistically without comression morphs, which lead back to JCM, and thus more bloat.

But thanks for the feedback. I'll look into adding some, where neccesary in the 2008 release.

Cheers.

Cool!  Put me down for a copy. 

Quote - > Quote - You know when it comes to morphs the mil/apollo figures don't have foot compression when walking,  thigh and buttock compression when sitting,  or hand compression when grasping.

Apollo has compression via his joint paremeters. And the foot has the foot arch for this purpose. The hand grasps very realistically without comression morphs, which lead back to JCM, and thus more bloat.

But thanks for the feedback. I'll look into adding some, where neccesary in the 2008 release.

Cheers.

 
Me too! always liked Apollo.

Quote - * Mondo could be the app, but correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not as easy to play with as it would be as Poser and a Daz figure with the built-in morphs. Sure, you can always sculpt and do your own, but if you are talking about the HUGE mass market appeal of selling like here at Renderosity, then look no further than the market place. Almost 90% of all new content is for the current Daz figures. So, unless you have a design team behind you, I don't see a way to possibly make enough cloths, props, etc. to support any figure for mass market. 

Yep!  I suppose the Daz figures have a certain comfort zone.

*Also, how and could you add hundreds of morphs to your custom figure in Modo to make it easy to sculpt for body, face and expressions like the V4, M3 figures by Daz? I don't know anything about Modo other than Daz V4 was created in it. That's why I was wondering how hard it would be to do all those morphs for a figure you design yourself. 

Not hard at all.  Study anatomy then take a few live drawing classes,  a few sculpting classes. 
Study expressions and body language along with motion and gestures.  Apply the knowledge you've learned as you push and pull vertices,  edges and polys.

That's my point, the market that Poser, Daz and Renderosity has is mainly due to ease of use and being able to learn quickly and do the renders. Not many are going to do a custom figure because like you say there is a LOT that goes into it. Therefore my point all along of going high-end for Daz and Poser still seem viable if it means ease of use VS a bunch of time consuming work just to get started.

*Again, I think we are comparing 2 different ways of doing things to 2 different markets. One is more professional and taking a longer time to learn and work with to achieve what you want. The other is giving you ready-to-go type figures and software. I see the advantages and disadvantages to both sides here. 

I agree.  There's only one difference between Daz  figures and Renderosity figures.
We made the developement of our figures public and we listen to what the public wants from our figures. 

I see what you are saying but that wasn't the point I had. Basically, unless you design a figure that is better than V4 and is as easy to morph in Poser with more realism then you are not likely to get mass appeal. The FEMALE figures are by far the most popular for a reason and most do a lot of fantasy type renders or fiction stories. So, the way I see it is if you want to do something new then it needs to be a female figure to start with as your first character and then gain it's support. That is why if Poser goes HIGH-END like I suggest, it will be for ease of use and to use such characters with it. Now, if Poser HIGH-END did sub-d and someone other than Daz made figures as you say that are sub-d with LOTS of aftermarket items here at renderosity and it was as easy to use as the Daz V4 type figures then yes, I can see a move like that.

However, going full Modo I don't see happening since there are no figures for it as easy as the Daz figures are to use nor is their any real market support here for such. I guess that leaves me wondering then if this market is not LOCKED into Poser and thus requiring as I mentioned in the other posts a split for low and high end use.

It just makes you wonder where and how fast the market is heading because without support like the Daz figures has here and over there plus the ease of use in morphing/shaping them then I don't see anything catching on unless something easier like Poser can handle those figures.

I have a question.  Which figure would you like, one off the rack or one custom made?

Quote - "It just makes you wonder where and how fast the market is heading because without support like the Daz figures has here and over there plus the ease of use in morphing/shaping them then I don't see anything catching on unless something easier like Poser can handle those figures."

There are indeed figures being made for poser that have all the morphs and are esier to use than the Daz figures, that make the bending of V4 look positively silly.

*There are indeed figures being made for poser that have all the morphs and are esier to use than the Daz figures, that make the bending of V4 look positively silly.

Yep!  A new Poser day is dawning!

"That's my point, the market that Poser, Daz and Renderosity has is mainly due to ease of use and being able to learn quickly and do the renders. Not many are going to do a custom figure because like you say there is a LOT that goes into it. Therefore my point all along of going high-end for Daz and Poser still seem viable if it means ease of use VS a bunch of time consuming work just to get started."

No, not viable because as everyone has pointed out that low poly over high poly is the way to go. It is the tech of poser that needs updating to the norm. Even DS uses SubD now and Daz has a SubD V4 with the morphs. So you can jump right in without any effort and start your project and not need that $27k machine to do it. Also you seem to be confussing those that are creating new figures and what they are doing in that creation from the finished figure that they would release with all the morphs. So again, even with a custom figure, your not doing anything special that your already doing with Daz figures.

What people here have been proving is you can get a very efficient figure that has all the morphs and bends well  in poser without the heavy poly count as these Daz figures, not counting thier subD figures. This makes for a faster, easier workflow in the long run for poser users.

Have you ever tried a very high poly figure in poser?  I have, I have a figure that is 250,000 poly's and beleive me you can barely get it to move, it's so slow and when it does move its jerky. Now imagine trying to put anything else in the scene at all.  It's not the amount of ram you have,(although that does help a little), Poser, nor max, nor most other 3d apps simply do not like high poly counts.  And further, after a certain number of poly's in a model you gain absolutely nothing whatsoever by adding more. It does not bend any better, or look any better. If you want super fine detail in the model itself then use a deformation map.

When DAZ Studio Sub Divides a Tri

Does it leave it a Tri like LW's SuB Patch

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm

or Does it covert a Tri in to a Quad ?

The Tri meshes our just for examples

I Model with Quads like this

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_Sub_D_Quads.htm

RorrKonn
http://64.234.196.28/

When DAZ Studio Sub Divides a Tri

Does it leave it a Tri like LW's SuB Patch

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm

or Does it covert a Tri in to a Quad ?

The Tri meshes our just for examples

I Model with Quads like this

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_Sub_D_Quads.htm

RorrKonn
http://64.234.196.28/

I'm not sure the answer to your question, I dont use D/S.  Wanted to complement you on that head mesh, smooth work!

Quote - I'm not sure the answer to your question, I dont use D/S.  Wanted to complement you on that head mesh, smooth work!

It's one from back in the TrueSpace days.

Drives me insane trying to figure out how to model characters all quads,guess something has to drive us LOL.

One of these days I'll be crazy enough to make some Poser DS content.

that DS Sub Divided got my attention.

my IQ don't go past a polycount of 7000.

polycounts 70000 I'd half to borrow somebody else's brain that was smart or insane.

V4's topology is wicked.

Say you spit out some killer stuff there phantom3D.

RorrKonn
http://64.234.196.28/

Quote - "That's my point, the market that Poser, Daz and Renderosity has is mainly due to ease of use and being able to learn quickly and do the renders. Not many are going to do a custom figure because like you say there is a LOT that goes into it. Therefore my point all along of going high-end for Daz and Poser still seem viable if it means ease of use VS a bunch of time consuming work just to get started."

No, not viable because as everyone has pointed out that low poly over high poly is the way to go. It is the tech of poser that needs updating to the norm. Even DS uses SubD now and Daz has a SubD V4 with the morphs. So you can jump right in without any effort and start your project and not need that $27k machine to do it. Also you seem to be confussing those that are creating new figures and what they are doing in that creation from the finished figure that they would release with all the morphs. So again, even with a custom figure, your not doing anything special that your already doing with Daz figures.

I see your point there and although I was not confusing them I do see what you mean by some of my statements on this. If the FINAL figure actually had all the morphs and was as easy to shape/bend/form as the Daz figures then yes I could see a following if they can be used in Poser. If those same figures are only heavy sub d, I don't see a lot of aftermarket support unless Poser changes their sub d type support in the next Poser 8. I can see moving platforms to something like Modo ONLY if there are tons of aftermarket support for that figure. BTW, anyone hoping to make a new figure and move in another direction should still think about it being a much better female figure than V4. Then you will see the people here in that are known for their V4 designs in the marketplace take notice and support your figure well. Again, sorry if I confused you on the whole doing a new figure to the FINISHED design that would be easy to use and morph.

What people here have been proving is you can get a very efficient figure that has all the morphs and bends well  in poser without the heavy poly count as these Daz figures, not counting thier subD figures. This makes for a faster, easier workflow in the long run for poser users.

 OK, here's something that goes along with what I was saying could be done -

"A new technology called "Grand Central" will make it easy for developers to create programs that take full advantage of the power of multi-core Macs. Also introduced is Open Compute Library (OpenCL), which extends the computing power of the GPU to any application written with OpenCL commands."

Now, this is just the first step. Over the next few years it will be multiple cores and CPUs over clock speed. So, the HIGH-END desktop computers will not only have full 64 bit support but have full blown open power of the cores and CPUs along with the OCL with more brute force graphics power than ever.

Shift ahead 5 years. We have NOW quad cores and multiple CPUs. My Mac has 2 quad core CPUs right now. Soon that will be an OCTO core with duel or quad CPUs. That would be 8 cores on at least 2-4 CPUs. Add to that at least 16-50GB of RAM and you have one heck of a brute force computer that can be realized in 5 or so years from now. 

So, I am just saying while some here are maintaining their point of Sub D being more efficient use there are certainly ways that may make it a moot point coming in a few years. No one I don't think is saying Sub D may not be more efficient at THIS time but it doesn't mean it will always be. As the technology grows, you can throw brute force at it and take the realism to a much higher level on home computers. You should in theory be able to use millions if not tens or hundreds of millions of polys in a scene with smooth and stable renders at an amazing speed. While we are not there yet, I am not sure that if you were to split a program like Poser into the the "mass market" and "high end" market you can't achieve the same or perhaps even better results doing it with brute force as some put it. Certainly the underlying technology will be there to do this. I'm not saying stay the course, but they certainly could and do both the Sub D version of Victoria and 200+ thousand high poly version then let the market decide which is better.

All I am saying is that while I understand the CURRENT trend of Sub D and it's uses I still say for true HUMAN realism you need more until I see some figure come out that is way better than anything now that blows V4 out of the water. How to do this 5 years from now may be a simple matter of preference and what the user has for their computer they design on rather than one method being better than the other.

Quote - *p.s.: I shudder to think of how many polygons vickie 5 will have

LOL!  Probably enough to choke a quad core!  And incompatible with P8 to boot! 

Funny thing is, I can still load up three or four V4's onto D|S, on a slightly aged Sony Vaio PCG-Z1RA (2003-vintage, Early P4 Centrino, 1GB of RAM, 16MB ATI Mobile vidcard), and it actually does okay. Takes awhile to load-up, but it can be done with enough 'comfort' (for lack of a better word) to make it worthwhile.

--

Quote - BTW Jane has 350 morphs.

It's not the quantity, but the quality (are they useful, and do they act smoothly? How far past max or below min can you go before the defomaritons become useless? etc etc...) :)

--

/P

Quote - When DAZ Studio Sub Divides a Tri Does it leave it a Tri like LW's SuB Patch or Does it covert a Tri in to a Quad ?

It converts to quads

 
Here's a female model that can bend like vicky wishes she could and she uses absolutely NO magnets or fixit morphs to do it, just better rigging. And she already has quite a number of merchants who have asked to support her with products.

Also rerigged V4 awhile back and she can bend well too without magnets or fixit morphs, with the proper rigging.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2734708&page=1  

Question - joint rigging (Poser) or real skeletal rigging (a'la Maya, 3DS Max, etc)?

Quote - I can see moving platforms to something like Modo ONLY if there are tons of aftermarket support for that figure. BTW, anyone hoping to make a new figure and move in another direction should still think about it being a much better female figure than V4. Then you will see the people here in that are known for their V4 designs in the marketplace take notice and support your figure well.

Modo is not like poser, Modo is a modeler with some animation features, getting better with each release. It does not use Poser stuff like poser does. It does not use rigging like poser does. Poser content can be ported to Modo but it doesn't work like it does in poser.Though someone is working on a poser/Modo workflow for future use.

Other content merchants will create something for any figure if they like it. NearMe and Sadie are good example. But you don't need to rely on merchants as you put it. The big supporters are the ones that do it for free and give the figure more exposure. Then the market people pick up on it. It's a hit and miss game with a lot of right timing and luck. Or like Daz who tells you everything is the latest and greatest thing since slice bread and the means to do it and all the followers that believe it. LOL. It can be crap but if Daz says you need it, (shrugs shoulders).

In a few years I would not be surprised to see 128 bit os as the system to have because all the rest will have cought up with us with 64bit and it will be the norm. But I still think that all highend will stick to low poly figures even with the big machines. The big machines will be able to calculate and use thier power for things like caustics, lighting, dynamics and such, all the things that use most of the power now to render. Only faster.  My guess is all.

peng, 350 morphs are not that much when you think of phonems, all face morphs, muscles and body morphs. How many does V4 have, or what was the count of V3 wih all the morphs.

Quote - Question - joint rigging (Poser) or real skeletal rigging (a'la Maya, 3DS Max, etc)?

This is joint rigging in poser. If I used Max it would be much easier to get good results. but The poser rigging is hard to get it to do what you want. I hate poser rigging, but I wanted to make my figures for poser.

One of these days I'll be crazy enough to make some Poser DS content.

*that DS Sub Divided got my attention.

RorrKonn,  today is the day!  Tomorrow may not happen.

*So, I am just saying while some here are maintaining their point of Sub D being more efficient use there are certainly ways that may make it a moot point coming in a few years.

You are correct.  The future of 3d modeling will be particles.  Think of it clouds of 1 point polys held together with surface mapping.

*This is joint rigging in poser. If I used Max it would be much easier to get good results. but The poser rigging is hard to get it to do what you want. I hate poser rigging, but I wanted to make my figures for poser.

Your rigging is phenomenal.  Check out max's rigging options there should be one called joint envelope.  Joint envelope is the same as Poser's rigging system.

350 morphs not enough?  Cool,  I'll add more.

Quote - "V4's topology is wicked" > Quote -

I like the V4 topology too, it's a sweet mesh.

Quote - "So, I am just saying while some here are maintaining their point of Sub D being more efficient use there are certainly ways that may make it a moot point coming in a few years. No one I don't think is saying Sub D may not be more efficient at THIS time but it doesn't mean it will always be. As the technology grows, you can throw brute force at it and take the realism to a much higher level on home computers. You should in theory be able to use millions if not tens or hundreds of millions of polys in a scene with smooth and stable renders at an amazing speed. While we are not there yet, I am not sure that if you were to split a program like Poser into the the "mass market" and "high end" market you can't achieve the same or perhaps even better results doing it with brute force as some put it. Certainly the underlying technology will be there to do this. I'm not saying stay the course, but they certainly could and do both the Sub D version of Victoria and 200+ thousand high poly version then let the market decide which is better."> Quote -

I certainly hope you're right, cause you can do some wicked stuff with a few million poly's in Zbrush.

Quote - "You are correct.  The future of 3d modeling will be particles.  Think of it clouds of 1 point polys held together with surface mapping."> Quote -

Sounds like heaven! Just think of the things you could do with rigging?  Don't have to worry about things like parent groups. That would be somethin.  Oh No! That means I have to learn how to do everything all over again!

How's everyone's figures coming along?  Jane's UV mapped and relaxed.

App's that only divide Tri's to Quads drive me insane.

Why and the heck don't they sub divided Tri's in to Tri's I'll never know.

Guess they enjoy torchering me to much LOL.

Phantom3D your rigging, wicked.

There's alot I never got about Poser,DS  odd rigs, odd morphs, extremely high polycounts.

These are the biggest reasons why I haven't used them alot.

might be why pro's don't either.

Patorak 350 morphs,where talking dedicated there.

My patient would be gone after the 9th morph.

I'm attempting to model male,female meshes 100% quads.

Just to prove how insane I am.

I know it's always been custom in the Poser,DS realms to have one mesh do it all.

But don't think I am going that rout.

Say Jack makes a sexy inj & string bikini for V4 every body buys the bikini. renders ,animates it till there bored of it.

then John makes a wicked inj & medieval armor for V4 every body buys the Armor. renders ,animates it till there bored of it.

etc etc

think I am going to make a male female with some cool accessories.sell them

people can render animate them till they get tired of them like they do all of V4's new stuff 

then make totally new male female that don't look any thing like the previous 2 with some totally new  cool accessories. sell them.

people can render animate them till they get tired of them.

keep on doing this till I have all the stuff I need for a complete theme for a comic,movie.

RorrKonn
http://64.234.196.28/

I'm still working on my first human-like figure. I've completed the textures and have begun creating the morphs. It’s taken many months so far. I’m still climbing the learning curve.

Does anyone really stop learning?

That actually sounds pretty cool, I'd buy them, I like figures just for figures though.  I think alot of people like to get all the little accesories. Still that sounds interesting, sortof like buying a character set but you get the model too.

patorak:  You're way ahead of me, I'm still UV mapping on the first two and have not even finished the edgelooping for the last one.  I did make some pretty cool skivies for the muscleman they have a crotch morph so he dont look like he's wearing panties.  (he's not done yet either) And I don't have any morphs yet. :(    Say how would you go about making a bump map for something like the cloth in the skivies?  I know it's probably not just an inverted photo.  I should look it up myself I do have a tut around here somewhere.  Oh almost forgott this guy as you see him is 22000 poly's but that goes up to close to 40,000 with everything incl. gens.  I want to do one of these for the female too sortof a bodybuilder woman Miss universe.

Quote - I'm still working on my first human-like figure. I've completed the textures and have begun creating the morphs. It’s taken many months so far. I’m still climbing the learning curve.

I hear ya there I started mine over a year ago! Started over several times though.

 For those working on new figures, please be sure and keep everyone updated on them here and please don't let them die. I have heard of a LOT of figures in years past that were "just around the corner" and "coming soon" but never are released becoming a dead project. That is why I truly wish everyone the best and I will certainly support fellow artists in their ventures, especially if you show me a figure that will blow anything out there totally away. A good female figure that can bend, form, etc. with more realism than V4 is what I have waited for a long time now. I would love to see what you guys come up with because one person simply can't do it all. Can't wait to see them make it to the market here.

Phantom3D -

That is indeed some GREAT rigging for Daz V4 and I have never seen her bending so well. Nice work and please PM me or let us know how we can get that rig for her if you can and do release it. I would love to modify my V4 like this as this is how it should've looked and been to begin with. Best of luck with your designs too, I look forward to seeing them. As I said above, just please don't let them fade into nothing like others have. Hope to see them soon and start having fun.

I hear ya there I started mine over a year ago! Started over several times though. I may need to do that after learning how to optimize a mesh in this thread.

Quote - > Quote -  

All I am saying is that while I understand the CURRENT trend of Sub D and it's uses I still say for true HUMAN realism you need more until I see some figure come out that is way better than anything now that blows V4 out of the water. How to do this 5 years from now may be a simple matter of preference and what the user has for their computer they design on rather than one method being better than the other.

 
Here's a female model that can bend like vicky wishes she could and she uses absolutely NO magnets or fixit morphs to do it, just better rigging. And she already has quite a number of merchants who have asked to support her with products.

Is that the figure you are working on now or another artist? I would like to know more about her and what the details are on her design. One key thing is to get Wardrobe Wizard support for the new figure then all the V4 or other cloths you spent a ton on already will fit her. I do a lot of fantasy renders and would love to use all the cloths I have or converted on a new figure. Once the new figure comes out, I'm sure PhilC would be happy to support it as he has been great at adding support for just about every figure out there now I know of. This would help kick-start any new figure too.

Quote -
"Is that the figure you are working on now or another artist? I would like to know more about her and what the details are on her design. One key thing is to get Wardrobe Wizard support for the new figure then all the V4 or other cloths you spent a ton on already will fit her. I do a lot of fantasy renders and would love to use all the cloths I have or converted on a new figure. Once the new figure comes out, I'm sure PhilC would be happy to support it as he has been great at adding support for just about every figure out there now I know of. This would help kick-start any new figure too" > Quote -

Yes that's the female figure I am working on now, I have several different versions of her. She basically has the same mesh as the male except added poly's in the breast and nether regions. The rig for V4 that I made, is just a resized version of the rig I use for my female. It's also the same rig in the male model, the rig seems to work well for almost any human figure you just have to set up the groups right and adjust it to fit the figure. I use body handles in certain areas too, like the hips buttock and pectoral areas, because unlike morphs you can adjust them to a wide variety of variations in the bend of the body part. I.E., say in one instance the leg is bent straight forward and you want to pull the hip and buttock slightly out and up, and in another instance the leg is bent straight up and out to the side you still want to adjust the hip and buttock but differently. Well usually that would take quite a number of fixit morphs to do each leg position, but with a properly set up body handle you only need one for the hip and one for the buttock, and they also handle the leg going backwards. totally adjustable and very easy to use all you have to do is grab them and move them around untill the hip and buttock look right. I am still going to use some fixit morphs where necessary but I should not need many.

Oh, something I forgott to add, body handles are a bone and can be animated.  Also the pic of my female model and of V4 there are no body handles in use on them that's just straight rigging, but you could fine tune them even beter with the body handles.  Once you get to the really big character like the muscleman you almost have to use the body handles, it's really hard to get a very thick and large figure to bend well, skinnier figures bend much better because they have more clearance for the bends..

Quote -  For those working on new figures, please be sure and keep everyone updated on them here and please don't let them die. I have heard of a LOT of figures in years past that were "just around the corner" and "coming soon" but never are released becoming a dead project. That is why I truly wish everyone the best and I will certainly support fellow artists in their ventures, especially if you show me a figure that will blow anything out there totally away. A good female figure that can bend, form, etc. with more realism than V4 is what I have waited for a long time now. I would love to see what you guys come up with because one person simply can't do it all. Can't wait to see them make it to the market here.

3DNeo I'll post progress every day or so.

Just a ruff draft of my 100% Quad male mesh body ,still needs tweaked.

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Male_Quad_Mesh.jpg

Female mesh her names Diamond

http://64.234.196.28/Diamond_003.jpg

http://64.234.196.28/Diamond_004.jpg

half to covert her mesh to all Quads.

so her looks will change some.

Still to model out fits and accessories and a location.

all in a medieval heavy metal theme.

RorrKonn
http://64.234.196.28/

It does my heart good to see the brotherhood in fellowship and set about the craft.

I'm attempting to model male,female meshes 100% quads.*

*Just to prove how insane I am.

That's the Holy Grail of modeling! 

*I'm still working on my first human-like figure. I've completed the textures and have begun creating the morphs. It’s taken many months so far. I’m still climbing the learning curve.
* 
We all go through it each time we create a figure.

*Does anyone really stop learning?

I agree.  An artist spends a lifetime learning.
 
*Say how would you go about making a bump map for something like the cloth in the skivies?  I know it's probably not just an inverted photo.  I should look it up myself I do have a tut around here somewhere.  Oh almost forgott this guy as you see him is 22000 poly's but that goes up
* 
Screen capture the blue value in RGB mode,  then grayscale it.

*For those working on new figures, please be sure and keep everyone updated on them here and please don't let them die.

That's why all of us are posting our WIPs.  Mutual support.  See,  if but one person does not succeed then as artists we all fail.

I hear ya there I started mine over a year ago! Started over several times though.

I may need to do that after learning how to optimize a mesh in this thread.

• If you feel the need to start over,  then try the frame method.  you'll be able to save the form of your figure by shrinkwrapping the frame to it.

Give me a few minutes and I'll post my initial edgelooping.